OOC Thread

[clancyphile]

The country that could come up with that type of carrier should clean up in sales.

India would probably want one or two to replace the @ Vikrant and to make up for not getting @ Viraat (what was HMS Hermes).

Australia gets one (maybe two) as a Melbourne replacement.

Japan, maybe (vice the @ Ise and Kaga DDHs)? Thailand?

Here's a question: Does the Furious-class get an angled deck and ski-jump?

[jemhouston]

The country that could come up with that type of carrier should clean up in sales.

India would probably want one or two to replace the @ Vikrant and to make up for not getting @ Viraat (what was HMS Hermes).

Australia gets one (maybe two) as a Melbourne replacement.

Japan, maybe (vice the @ Ise and Kaga DDHs)? Thailand?

Here's a question: Does the Furious-class get an angled deck and ski-jump?

Assuming VSTOL planes, I would say yes to both.

However, it's been pointed out that thanks to WW3 Harriers were shown to have major issues with range and payloads. If the country was expected to go up against regular carriers, they come out in second place. They would work in keeping your sea-lanes open.

I think you would have to go up to Midway size for power project. I'm not sure if you get it with an Essex size carrier.

[Wolfman]

With regard to the Australians and A-4F Skyhawks, has it occurred to the assembled that the USN is going to need every A-4F they can get their hands on for the Essex-class carriers? Besides, the Aussies using the A-4M has been established canon for years now…

[Lordroel]

So two question i have.

Wolfman on AT.com comment that the North Koreans invaded Guam in 1985 and being defeated that same year by the United States.

My second question, what ever happen to the Former Soviet carrier Riga, Wolfman told me the aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov is in service with the Russian Republic, could the Riga not been sold, this gives the Russian Republic some hard earn cash, lets say 1994 and this gives India a Soviet/Russian carrier as the Baku which she bought in 2004 OTL was sunk during the Battle of the Baltic exits (21st March 1987).

[Bernard Woolley]

I’ll dig out the carriers fact file. It should help a bit with this.

[Lordroel]

I’ll dig out the carriers fact file. It should help a bit with this.

Thanks, that will help a lot.

[Bernard Woolley]

I may need to reconstruct it. Is the last version of the site still active? IIRC the Indians did have a Furious class.

However, it's been pointed out that thanks to WW3 Harriers were shown to have major issues with range and payloads. If the country was expected to go up against regular carriers, they come out in second place. They would work in keeping your sea-lanes open.

And yet, the Battle of the Baltic Exits showed that Harrier carriers were more than capable in the ASuW role. As in @, the only country in the RDverse with regular carriers post-war until 2024 is the USA. Even if a country did have a couple of regular carriers, they are going to come out second-best against the might of the USN. Why spend huge amounts of money on a 'conventional' CV when a V/STOL carrier will do what most countries need? Especially since the main fighter carried by them is the F-24B (F-35B)? In the RDverse, only France will have non-V/STOL carriers outside of the US.

[Bernard Woolley]

Have found the section of the carriers fact file on the Indian Navy.

*


Aircraft carriers of the Indian Navy

INS Vikrant (R11)

The first aircraft carrier to be operated by the Indian Navy. Formerly HMS Hercules (R49), Vikrant was purchased in 1957 before she completed in 1957, entering service in 1961. Served in the Indo-Pakistani War of 1965.Was modified between 1982 and 1983 to operate the Sea Harrier FRS.51; gained a ski-jump when the Breguet Alizé was retired in 1989. Patroled the Indian Ocean during World War Three enforcing a neutrality zone; the Allies respected this as it favoured them. Retired in 1997 and has since become a museum ship at Mumbai (Bombay).


INS Viraat (R22)

By the end of the 1980s the Indian Navy was more than aware that Vikrant urgently needed replacing. The origional plan to replace her had been to purchase HMS Hermes when she was decomissoned from Royal Navy service, however events overtook this plan and Hermes was sunk during the war. The Indians did briefly consider purchasing her sister HMS Bulwark, but she was too badly damaged after the Battle of the Baltic Exits. At this point the British government offered the dispairing Indian Navy a good deal - they would build a fourth Furious class carrier for them if the Indians committed to buying British helicopters (Merlins). Hardly believing their luck at the bargain basement offer (the British government were not being entirely altruistic as they were seeking to support the British ship building industry) and accepted. The new INS Viraat comissioned in Belfast in July 1994, setting sail for India two months later after completing sea trials. Today she frequently serves as the flagship for Indian Navy deployments.


INS Vikrant (R23)

Deciding that the Indian Navy really needed two aircraft carriers to be able to regularly deploy one at sea and seeking to improve the capabilities of Indian ship building the Indian government chose to maintain the links forged with the UK when Viraat had been ordered and purchased a slightly modified Queen Elizabeth class carrier. Although the carrier would be built in India there would be significant assistance provided by the British Carrier Alliance consortium. Vikrant comissioned in 2019,


INS Vikramaditya (R33)

A proposed second QE class carrier intended as a replacement for Viraat. No funding has yet been allocated for construction.

[Lordroel]

Have found the section of the carriers fact file on the Indian Navy.

So the Riga was not sold to India, thus this mean Russia with the threat of the Rump USSR oparated two Admiral Kuznetsov class aircraft carriers ,the Kuznetsov and Riga.

[Bernard Woolley]

I think there’s a good chance that Riga was never completed. Partly depends on whether Crimea became part of Ukraine, or was occupied by the Rump USSR.

[clancyphile]

I think there’s a good chance that Riga was never completed. Partly depends on whether Crimea became part of Ukraine, or was occupied by the Rump USSR.

Probably would be occupied, as it was in 2014 in @.

[Matt Wiser]

The Soviet carriers were all built at Yard 61 in Nikolayev, Ukraine. The Ukrainians would, in all likelihood, scrap the incomplete hull.

Yes, Crimea was occupied by the Rump USSR after the Civil War, but reverted to Ukraine after the fall of the Soviet State.

As for the A-4s for Australia: Fs upgraded to near-M standard in terms of avionics might be best. The Marines and AF would have first call on aircraft from any reopened production line at McDonnell-Douglas Palmdale. (The original line was at El Segundo, then went to Long Beach-here, a second domestic source for F-15s, delaying C-17 work, but the Eagles have priority).

[Wolfman]

I was figuring that Australia was getting the first two dozen A-4Ms off the reopened line, after that, they get replacements as the situation permits, but the initial two dozen were to make sure that the Aussies didn’t need replacement aircraft immediately because they had some on hand. Am I making sense here?

[Matt Wiser]

They'll need the refurbished Fs before the Ms become available.

[James1978]

Point of clarification: Did the A-4M go back into production for new-builds? Or are you all just talking about rebuilds of older models?

As for the A-4s for Australia: Fs upgraded to near-M standard in terms of avionics might be best. The Marines and AF would have first call on aircraft from any reopened production line at McDonnell-Douglas Palmdale. (The original line was at El Segundo, then went to Long Beach-here, a second domestic source for F-15s, delaying C-17 work, but the Eagles have priority).

FYI, at least in @, Grumman had a hot line in St. Augustine, FL rebuilding A-4C/Ls into A-4PTMs for Malaysia. They beat out McDonnell Douglas, Vought, and Lockheed for the job. Deliveries started in 1985 and ran to February 1986.

So at least in @, in late 1985 / early 1986, Grumman was the company with the most recent experience upgrading older A-4s.

Also, there are probably no more than around 126 A-4Fs available.

[Matt Wiser]

McAir had a production line at Palmdale for the A-4; it was moved from El Segundo to Long Beach, then to Palmdale in 1960s (from the A-4 Skyhawk Association's web page). We're assuming that's where the new-builds are cranked out for the USAF, USMC and the handful of Navy squadrons for the Essex-class reactivations.

There should be enough Fs (and Es) to hold the line until the new Ms come out of Palmdale. It's easier to do the work there flying them from Davis-Monthan to Palmdale than to to the long ferry trip around occupied territory to St. Augustine, then back for some users.

[Lordroel]

Can we consider the Fall of the Rump USSR as the Third Russian Civil War.

Also nice to see the AH.com thread going the route what did the Racoons do in Red Dawn.

[Lordroel]

So working on a Cuban Air Force list 1985 over at my forum, did the Soviets supply other fighters before the outbreak of the war ore did the Cuban Revolutionary Air And Air Defense Force (1985) start with OTL numbers.

[Matt Wiser]

They got MiG-29s and Su-22Ms as the war progressed in 1986. And yes, new regiments were formed to go to North America.

[Lordroel]

They got MiG-29s and Su-22Ms as the war progressed in 1986. And yes, new regiments were formed to go to North America.

And a Tu-16 Badger Regiment of 40 planes, that means two squadrons ore 3 squadrons.