UAP hearing July 26th

[Micael]

Thank you very much. GIANT KILLER is, as I understand it, a radio callsign used by NEADS for fighter control (not sure if it’s still in use). It was in use during 9/11, in the released transcripts GIANT KILLER directed the scrambled fighters to DC and NYC. It seems that it’s turned into a nickname of sorts for NEADS for some pilots, which seems to be how Fravor used it in this context.

The Nimitz info wouldn't be with NEADS, it'd be with NEADS, I don't know their call sign.

I thought the encounter was off the west coast?

Didn’t even think of that, good point. I guess Fravor misremembered which NORAD sector used that callsign.

[Micael]

Though now I’m throughly confused because wiki says it’s a Navy callsign?

GIANT KILLER is a military Air Traffic Control (ATC) call sign used within certain regions of the contiguous United States (CONUS). The callsign is primarily administered by the United States Navy for military flight operations on the East Coast.[1]

The call sign is utilized by military air traffic controllers responsible for flight operations within restricted military airspace or to direct military air craft that is transiting civilian airspace. The call sign is commonly published in NOTAMs that designate restricted airspace reserved for military flight operations or combat exercises where normal airspace operating rules do not apply.[2] Prior to the introduction of the call sign, standardized identification methods for military controllers holding operating authority over a specific section of airspace did not exist. [3]

To reduce the confusion and to ensure standardized emergency communication procedures among the various branches of the U.S. military, the call sign GIANT KILLER is used to denote the controlling authority for a section of military airspace dedicated to combat training or combat operations within the U.S. In rare circumstances, call signs like GIANT KILLER may be used during a national emergency when a specific controller has been assigned a section of airspace. This was the case on September 11, 2001 when US Navy personnel utilized the call sign to vector three F-16s from Langley Air Force Base to the National Capital Region for air defense purposes.[4] It is possible for a specific controller to utilize more than one call sign, with GIANT KILLER being one of them. For clarity, the name is always written in capital letters with a space between the words.

[Nightwatch2]

Though now I’m throughly confused because wiki says it’s a Navy callsign?

GIANT KILLER is a military Air Traffic Control (ATC) call sign used within certain regions of the contiguous United States (CONUS). The callsign is primarily administered by the United States Navy for military flight operations on the East Coast.[1]

The call sign is utilized by military air traffic controllers responsible for flight operations within restricted military airspace or to direct military air craft that is transiting civilian airspace. The call sign is commonly published in NOTAMs that designate restricted airspace reserved for military flight operations or combat exercises where normal airspace operating rules do not apply.[2] Prior to the introduction of the call sign, standardized identification methods for military controllers holding operating authority over a specific section of airspace did not exist. [3]

To reduce the confusion and to ensure standardized emergency communication procedures among the various branches of the U.S. military, the call sign GIANT KILLER is used to denote the controlling authority for a section of military airspace dedicated to combat training or combat operations within the U.S. In rare circumstances, call signs like GIANT KILLER may be used during a national emergency when a specific controller has been assigned a section of airspace. This was the case on September 11, 2001 when US Navy personnel utilized the call sign to vector three F-16s from Langley Air Force Base to the National Capital Region for air defense purposes.[4] It is possible for a specific controller to utilize more than one call sign, with GIANT KILLER being one of them. For clarity, the name is always written in capital letters with a space between the words.

HaHa!

NEADS vectored those jets on 9/11, not the Navy.

wiki mistook the N in NEADS for Navy.

NEADS is, of course, the North East Air Defense Sector subordinate to the NORAD CONUS Region which is also 1st Air Force.

[Micael]

Hmm.

[Micael]

Concerning the shore based radars, if I’m remembering correctly the object was heading towards land when they lost contact with it. Specifically in the general direction of Vandenberg I believe. That could explain why Fravor suggests looking at the data from radars on the mainland.

[Nightwatch2]

Concerning the shore based radars, if I’m remembering correctly the object was heading towards land when they lost contact with it. Specifically in the general direction of Vandenberg I believe. That could explain why Fravor suggests looking at the data from radars on the mainland.

That tracks

(Pardon….)

[Micael]

Concerning the shore based radars, if I’m remembering correctly the object was heading towards land when they lost contact with it. Specifically in the general direction of Vandenberg I believe. That could explain why Fravor suggests looking at the data from radars on the mainland.

That tracks

(Pardon….)

—————

Four minute news video on Grusch and the leaking of his medical records:

[Micael]

I was watching a youtube chat concerning the hearing, three military pilots, and there was a fair bit of scepticism expressed. However one of them, a Hawkeye and later Hornet driver, did offer up that he reported aboard the Nimitz shortly after the incident took place and he was told of it by several people. He noted that:

1. What he heard back then is consistent with what Fravor has said in public.

2. Talk about it was vigorously suppressed from the top. A no-no subject, but people talked anyway.

[Edit] Oh and he also said that Fravor is a great guy.

[Micael]

One recurring type of observation over the past decade or so have been spherical objects that does not appear to be overly large in size. Per the AARO the speeds of these objects have been recorded as between stationary (hovering) and Mach 2. The data on these does not appear to suggest any ”laws of physics-breaking” behavior.

The AARO released one military video recorded in the Middle East in 2022 by an MQ-9:


This seems to be representative of these objects, metallic looking, spherical, no obvious signs of propulsion, but still obviously being propelled in some way or another.

Based on the shape it seems possible that it may be of the same type as the one in the so-called ”go fast” video also recorded by a US military craft in 2015, albeit the resolution in that video is poorer:


It’s interesting that it seems that this ”design” seems to have appeared on a fairly large number of occasions.

One thing I’m left wondering is if this is some black project of terrestrial origin, how might the propulsion work? Something pushing off the earth’s magnetic field? Any of you who are more knowledgeable about science and engineering than me dare to offer up a hypothesis?

[Micael]

I’ll post some texts that might be interesting, without passing judgment on whether there’s any truth to what they report.

By Michael Shellenberger, June 7th:

US have 12 or more alien spacecraft, say military and intelligence contractors

In April, the director of the Pentagon’s new program for studying UFOs said he had seen no evidence of alien spacecraft. “I should also state clearly for the record,” said Sean Kirkpatrick, the Director of the All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO), “that in our research, AARO has found no credible evidence thus far of extraterrestrial activity, off-world technology, or objects that defy the known laws of physics.”
The statement, which was part of a hearing on the topic, generated headlines around the world. “UFO sightings are up,” noted Politico, “but no proof of aliens yet, Pentagon official says.” Wrote News Nation, “UFO Chief: No ‘credible evidence’ of extraterrestrial activity.”
But on Monday, an Air Force whistleblower contradicted the Pentagon’s claim, telling The Debrief and News Nation that the U.S. government is in possession of “quite a number” of alien spacecraft. “I thought it was totally nuts,” David Grusch said. “I thought at first I was being deceived.”

But, Grusch said, he soon learned that United States government possessed “quite a number” of different kinds of non-human vehicles. “I have plenty of current and former senior intelligence officers who came to me — many of whom I knew almost my whole career — [and] who confided in me.”
This is not the first time government officials have suggested that the U.S. may possess alien spaceships. “I was told for decades that Lockheed had some of these retrieved materials,” said the late Senator Harry Reid, who fought for greater disclosure. “And I tried to get, as I recall, a classified approval by the Pentagon to have me go look at the stuff. They would not approve that.”
Former deputy assistant secretary of Defense for Intelligence, Christopher Mellon, recently reported that he has spoken to more than four witnesses who say they know of “a secret U.S. government program involving the analysis and exploitation of materials recovered from off-world craft… Some have supplied information to the intelligence community’s inspector general, others directly to the staff of the congressional oversight committees.”
Grusch’s claims are shocking, and he has not made public any photographs, video, or written evidence to support them. He says he never saw any of the alleged nonhuman spacecraft himself. And, in response to a query, Defense Department spokesperson Sue Gough repeated what Kirkpatric had said in April. “To date, AARO has not discovered any verifiable information to substantiate claims that any programs regarding the possession or reverse-engineering of extraterrestrial materials have existed in the past or exist currently.”

But while Grusch has not shared written evidence in an unclassified way, he did provide classified intelligence reports, emails, and other documents to Thomas A. Monheim, the Intelligence Community Inspector General, as the law allows.
As for photographs, the Defense Department prohibited Grusch from sharing any, as the letter from the DoD below shows.

And now, multiple sources close to the matter have come forward to tell Public that Grusch’s core claims are accurate. The individuals are all either high-ranking intelligence officials, former intelligence officials, or individuals who we could verify were involved in U.S. government UAP efforts for three or more decades each. Two of them have testified, including as recently as last year, to both AARO and Congress.
The individuals said they had seen or been presented with “credible” and “verifiable” evidence that the U.S. government, and U.S. military contractors, possess at least 12 or more alien space crafts, some of which they shared with AARO, which AARO has refused to provide to Congress. The reason AARO “has not discovered any verifiable information,” they said, is because it does have the authority to verify it and may not want to verify it.
“In his testimony to Congress, Kirkpatrick said that AARO is operating under Title 10 authority, but most intelligence agencies operate under a higher, Title 50 Authority,” explained a source “The intelligence community with Title 50, feels free to stonewall AARO with Title 10 because they view Title 10 authority as inferior to Title 50.”
The sources all expressed anger and frustration at the Pentagon’s denial of the existence of nonhuman craft and materials. “The denials coming out of Susan Gough and the Pentagon are specifically chosen to use AARO as the source of information when Grusch has already addressed that AARO didn’t have access. And so, of course, they didn’t discover anything.”
Said another individual, “The AARO response is typical because they are not doing any investigation of the testimony they’ve been given. Kirkpatrick has not been reporting properly to the congressional committees.”
Indeed, Grusch took a whistleblower complaint to the ICIG precisely because, he says, the military and intelligence community was withholding information from AARO and from Congress. It was only after becoming a whistleblower that Congress invited Grusch to give closed-door testimony in a secure information facility.

Members of Congressional intelligence committees and the Intelligence Community Inspector General (ICIG) are taking Grusch’s claims seriously. The ICIG concluded in July 2022 that Grusch’s whistleblower complaint was “credible and urgent.” And, said a source who worked with him, Grusch’s superiors promoted him rapidly due to his talent. “He jumped ranks when they hired him as a GS-15. That’s a big jump for his position.”
Grusch, 36, is a senior intelligence analyst who represented the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) to the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force, the precursor to AARO, from 2019-2021. Grusch is also a decorated combat officer for his service in Afghanistan.
“His assertion concerning the existence of a terrestrial arms race occurring sub-rosa over the past eighty years focused on reverse engineering technologies of unknown origin is fundamentally correct,” said Karl Nell, a retired Army Colonel who worked with Grusch on the UAP Task Force, which preceded the creation of AARO, told The Debrief,” as is the indisputable realization that at least some of these technologies of unknown origin derive from non-human intelligence.”
Some of the same sources who shared information with Grusch, as well as others, spoke to Public about retrieved spacecraft that they say is in the possession of the U.S. government. “I know of at least 12-15 craft,” said one person, who said they shared the information with AARO and Congress. “Every five years, we get one or two recovered for one reason or another, from either a landing or that we catch, or they just crash.”
A different contractor said, “There were at least four morphologies, different structures. Six were in good shape; six were not in good shape. There were cases where the craft landed, and the occupants left the craft unoccupied. There have been high-level people, including generals, who have placed their hand on the craft, and I would have no reason to disbelieve them.”
One source described having seen three kinds of craft, including one shaped like a triangle and another that “looked like a chopped up helicopter, with the front bubble of a Huey helicopter, with the plastic windows, or more like a deep sea submarine, with a thick piece of glass bubble shaped, and where the tail rudder should have been, it was a black, egg-shaped pancake, and instead of landing gear it had upside-down rams horns that went from the top to the bottom and rested on the ends of the horns.”
The sources said they felt compelled to speak out publicly to validate Grusch’s claims but did not want their names used. “We have non-disclosure agreements or secrecy agreements that we are supposed to take to the grave,” said one person. Two of the three sources declined to answer certain questions, even off the record, out of concern for their safety and continued access to information.
“I briefed the Senate intelligence committee, the Senate Armed Services Committee, and ARRO, and so that information is out there,” the person said. “What Grusch did was the first giant step to get the information out.”
The sources said that the Pentagon and military contractors keep the nonhuman spacecraft in different locations, including Area 51 in Nevada, and that they move the craft around to different facilities, both military bases and contractor facilities, for research.
The sources differed on whether the U.S. was able to operate them. “As far as I know, we are not able to operate them,” said one person, who said they were last briefed on the crashed craft five years ago. “There are people who say we have reverse-engineered them and are flying them. I never found any support for that. And found a lot of support for saying we can’t figure it out. If we do, it would be in some program at a higher security level.”
Others said that the U.S. has been able to fly at least one of the retrieved craft. “Some of the tech is very cutting-edge,” said a source, “and they have to travel to places like Italy, Belgium, and Indonesia to do flight testing. It’s worldwide. Some of our allies know about the programs. The clandestine places that they work out of have grown larger.”
The sources said they suspected that the Chinese and Russians had also retrieved craft, but they did not know for certain.

 All of the individuals pointed to secrecy as an obstacle to reverse engineering the craft. One military contractor said that, in December 2010, a major aerospace corporation tried to work around the secrecy by creating a buffer organization to prevent scientists and engineers who lacked top-secret clearance from learning where the tech they worked on came from. But the military sharply rejected the proposal.
The proposal, the person said, was that “We would apply science and engineering talent because the aerospace corporation security meant they were not having as much success as had been hoped for. And so we were proposing to horizontally cut through the stove pipes [which compartmentalize work to keep it secret] so there would be very few people interfacing with the aerospace company, and the science and engineering talent wouldn’t need to know about the full nature of the tech.”
The contractor said the US government agency rejected the idea. “The [aerospace corporation] vice president took it back to his customer, a government agency I won’t name, and they refused. It was a very strong refusal; there was no chance of this ever happening. The main concern was that there would be a potential for a leak, but it seemed like it was a very flat ‘no’ with not a lot of reasons given.
“The aerospace vice president was pretty stressed out about the whole thing. Apparently, it was not a very polite ‘no’ that was given. The main problem, according to the aerospace corporation, was that they were handcuffed left, right, and center. And that was the last we ever heard of it.”
One source estimated there were only between 100 and 700 individuals in government or working for government contractors who know about the retrieved crash, while another person estimated that even fewer knew about the full program to reverse engineer alien technology. “Maybe on our side, there were three people total,” said the contractor whose proposal to cut through the stovepipe was rejected. “There were 4 or 5 people who I knew of on the aerospace corporation side.”
And that’s a problem, said the people we interviewed. “The problem is this overwhelming security apparatus. And so a brainstorming session that is necessary to scientific and engineering is not possible.”  
One of the sources revealed that there has existed since the early 2000s a top-secret computer discussion platform known as “R-Space,” and that it has grown to include 1,500 government or government-funded scientists and analysts evaluating UAPs. “All the people on R-Space have top secret, very high clearance to get there,” the person explained. “But Area 51 is above that. It has special access programs where you have to be read in.”

It’s not clear that the programs are under democratic authority. “Only certain politicians and presidents who grew up in this world, who touched this program, get read in,” said a source.
The question now is whether Congress will act. Some members have shown some willingness to press whether ARRO really has the mandate to investigate. “Do you have the authorities you need to extend your collection posture between agencies or branches of the military?” asked Senator Jacky Rosen (D-NV). “Do you need any authorities that you don’t have to get the data you need?”
In response, Kirkpatrick noted that AARO was operated under Title 10 authority and that “there are some authorities that we need.” Noted The Debrief, “Kirkpatrick attempted to downplay AARO’s lack of Title 50 authority but acknowledged that “having additional authorities for collection, tasking, counter-intelligence, those are all things that would be helpful, yes.” And, added The Debrief, by “operating solely under Title 10 authority, AARO has limited ability to force the Intelligence Community to assist in UAP investigations.”
In other words, AARO is not a serious investigative body. If that’s to change, Congress, the media, and the American people will need to demand it. Shortly before he died, Former Senator Harry Reid told the New York Times, “It is extremely important that information about the discovery of physical materials or retrieved craft come out.”
What’s most changed about the topic is the public discussion, the willingness of members of Congress to stand up to the Pentagon, and the courage of insiders to speak out as witnesses and whistleblowers. That suggests that the time is running out if government officials are indeed hiding evidence of nonhuman ships. After all, if government agencies and military contractors are not hiding spacecraft in their facilities, then the gatekeepers should have no good reason to oppose a serious effort by Congress to find them. 

[Micael]

Italian researcher shares evidence files of secret 'first' UFO crash

By Josh Boswell and Chris Sharp For Dailymail.Com 15:10 BST 03 Jul 2023 , updated 16:18 BST 03 Jul 2023

A top US intelligence officer claims World War II American forces retrieved a UFO that crashed in Italy in 1933 – and Italian researchers say they have the documents to prove it.

Former top National Reconnaissance Office staffer David Grusch shocked the world last month when he revealed he had blown the whistle in sworn testimony to Congress and government watchdogs, about an alleged secret US program that has obtained multiple 'non-human' flying saucers.

Top Stories by Daily Mail 01:00 Alpine stream bursts causing a mudslide in Italy's Bardonecchia Chilean burglars raid Cheshire mansions before being arrested Terrifying moment Florida deputy is exposed to fentanyl Boris to weigh in on Elon vs Zuck in his latest Daily Mail column Loveable noise, pollution and traffic under the Spaghetti Junction Terrifying moment churning riverof mud bursts its bank in Italy
Grusch claims one of these alien spacecraft crashed in Northern Italy in 1933, and was secreted away by Fascist dictator Benito Mussolini, before it was captured by American forces at the end of World War II and shipped to the US.

DailyMail.com understands Grusch was briefed on the supposed June 1933 crash by a staffer who allegedly worked on the 'non-human' craft in a secret US government program.

Italian researcher Roberto Pinotti shared extraordinary details of the saucer crash that allegedly occurred in Northern Italy in 1933
Italian researcher Roberto Pinotti shared extraordinary details of the saucer crash that allegedly occurred in Northern Italy in 1933
An artist's impression of the alleged 1933 UFO crash outside Magenta in northern Italy shows a craft shaped like a saucer
An artist's impression of the alleged 1933 UFO crash outside Magenta in northern Italy shows a craft shaped like a saucer
Pinotti was also sent handwritten memos on paper with a government agency letterhead dated August 22, 1936 which include a sketch and description (pictured) of a cylindrical aircraft with portholes on the sides and white and red lights spotted flying over Northern Italy


Pinotti was also sent handwritten memos on paper with a government agency letterhead dated August 22, 1936 which include a sketch and description (pictured) of a cylindrical aircraft with portholes on the sides and white and red lights spotted flying over Northern Italy
And this week Senate Intelligence Committee ranking member Marco Rubio confirmed he has heard testimony from alleged first hand witnesses of such crash retrieval programs.

Now, in an interview with DailyMail.com to coincide with Sunday's World UFO Day, Italian researcher Roberto Pinotti shared extraordinary details of the alleged saucer crash that occurred a full 14 years before the famous Roswell, New Mexico incident.

Pinotti, president of the National Ufological Center, which goes by the Italian initialism CUN, obtained documents he claims evidence the June 13, 1933 crash, and a secret department set up by Mussolini to study the alleged saucer.

Pinotti's research has been met with skepticism in Italy since he first released it in 2000, and is still little-known outside its borders.

'I and my colleague Alfredo Lissoni began investigating the story of the 1933 UFO crash in Lombardy in 1996, when we received some original secret documents about the case,' he told DailyMail.com.

The documents were mysteriously mailed to Pinotti from an anonymous source who claimed to have inherited them from a family member who worked on Mussolini's supposed UFO program.

They include two June 1933 telegrams in Italian, one demanding 'absolute silence' over an 'alleged landing on national soil of unknown aircraft'.

Another, dated June 13, threatens the 'immediate arrest' and 'maximum penalties' for any journalists reporting news of an 'aircraft of unknown nature and origin'.

'Immediate recasting of any leads from the newspapers bearing said news is ordered,' the second telegram said.

Both say they are by 'personal order' of 'Il Duce' – Mussolini himself.



The documents include two June 1933 telegrams in Italian demanding 'absolute silence' over an 'alleged landing on national soil of unknown aircraft'
The documents include two June 1933 telegrams in Italian demanding 'absolute silence' over an 'alleged landing on national soil of unknown aircraft'




Another, dated June 13, threatens the 'immediate arrest' and 'maximum penalties' for any journalists reporting news of an 'aircraft of unknown nature and origin'
Another, dated June 13, threatens the 'immediate arrest' and 'maximum penalties' for any journalists reporting news of an 'aircraft of unknown nature and origin'
Other documents sent to Pinotti refer to a mysterious government department called 'Gabinetto RS/33', or the RS (Special Research) 33 Cabinet, supposedly set up by the Italian dictator to manage the retrieval and study of the alleged saucer wreckage, as well as other UFO incidents.

Pinotti says RS/33 was headed by Nobel Prize-winning inventor Guglielmo Marconi, inventor of the radio.

To this day, Italian historians and UFO researchers have found no other evidence of this shadowy alleged group or Marconi's involvement.

Pinotti was also sent handwritten memos on paper with a government agency letterhead dated August 22, 1936 which include a sketch and description of a cylindrical aircraft with portholes on the sides and white and red lights spotted flying over Northern Italy.

Piecing together the mysterious documents, Pinotti was able to pinpoint SIAI Marchetti in Vergiate, an aircraft facility near the alleged crash site outside Magenta, a satellite town of Milan, as the likely site where the supposed wreckage was stored.

The site miraculously avoided regular bombing raids by Allied Forces during the Second World War, and 12 years later in 1945 the region was secured by US and UK troops.

US whistleblower Grusch claims it was around this time that the supposed craft was shipped back to the US; the first saucer recovery to his knowledge.

'In 1933, a bell-like craft, around ten meters in size, was recovered in Magenta, northern Italy. It was kept by Mussolini's government until 1944 when it was recovered by agents of the Office of Strategic Services (OSS, a former US intelligence agency),' he told French newspaper Le Parisien last month.

'Ironically, it predates anything the public has heard about for decades, such as Roswell, etc.'

The former National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency official declined to be interviewed on the record by DailyMail.com about his claims.

As the only UFO crash case which Grusch has specifically described as authentic, the alleged 1933 incident has taken on a new significance as an indicator of the reliability of his claims of a US crash retrieval program.

Whistleblower claims people killed by 'non-human intelligences'



Other documents sent to Pinotti refer to a mysterious government department called 'Gabinetto RS/33', or the RS (Special Research) 33 Cabinet, supposedly set up by the Italian dictator
Other documents sent to Pinotti refer to a mysterious government department called 'Gabinetto RS/33', or the RS (Special Research) 33 Cabinet, supposedly set up by the Italian dictator
From the mysterious documents Pinotti was able to pinpoint SIAI Marchetti in Vergiate, an aircraft facility near the alleged crash site outside Magenta, a satellite town of Milan, as the likely site where the supposed wreckage was stored
From the mysterious documents Pinotti was able to pinpoint SIAI Marchetti in Vergiate, an aircraft facility near the alleged crash site outside Magenta, a satellite town of Milan, as the likely site where the supposed wreckage was stored
And Pinotti says he has been able to authenticate at least some of his paperwork.

The Italian researcher had one of his documents, dated 1936, tested by a forensic expert who concluded the paper and ink was from that period. The 1933 telegrams have not been tested.

The conclusion of the 2000 report by scientific consultant Antonio Garavaglia, shared with DailyMail.com, says: 'It can be stated with reasonable certainty that only the sample examined and the subject of the appraisal can be considered original and, therefore, authentic.'

'After four years of investigations and a forensic analysis showing the documents were really written in the 1930s, we published a detailed report in a book,' Pinotti told DailyMail.com.

'The evidence speaks for itself. And it shows that the first world leader who officially (although secretly) faced the UFO problem was not president Harry Truman with the Roswell incident in the United States but Italy's Benito Mussolini.'

However, skeptics have pointed out that vintage paper and ink from the time could have been used to forge the papers, and that they bear no protocol numbers or official stamps that would help verify them as real government documents, appearing instead to be more like personal memos.

Even other Italian UFO researchers have poured scorn on the story. Giuseppe Stilo, a member of the Italian Center for UFO Studies, told Vice News Italy: 'From a scientific point of view, these are embarrassing stories. Any historian would blanch at seeing how one claims to prove one thing or the other.'

British historian Graeme Rendall, who has written books on WWII UFO sightings, told DailyMail.com that he believes the evidence is inconclusive.





The Italian researcher had one of his documents, dated 1936, tested by a forensic expert who concluded the paper and ink was from that period
The Italian researcher had one of his documents, dated 1936, tested by a forensic expert who concluded the paper and ink was from that period


Marco Negri, whose family have lived in Northern Italy for over a century, said his great-great grandfather, Pietro Negri (pictured) told stories to his father of a strange metallic aircraft without wings that crashed in Magenta in the 1930s
Marco Negri, whose family have lived in Northern Italy for over a century, said his great-great grandfather, Pietro Negri (pictured) told stories to his father of a strange metallic aircraft without wings that crashed in Magenta in the 1930s
'It's one of these cases where we need more information,' he said. 'There's claims made, but nothing really to back them up.

'It would be nice if there was an independent examination of the original documents. That could rule out or in, whether this was a forgery or not.'

The Republic of San Marino, a tiny European city-state on the Italian mainland, is currently working with Pinotti and fellow CUN executive Paolo Guizzardi to lobby the United Nations to set up its own UFO investigations office.

Pinotti's research has been met with skepticism in Italy since he first released it in 2000s and is still little-known outside its borders
Pinotti's research has been met with skepticism in Italy since he first released it in 2000s and is still little-known outside its borders
The effort, named Project Titan, was approved by the San Marino government on January 19 this year, and Pinotti and Guizzardi had their first meeting with ministers on June 19.

Guizzardi says he wants San Marino to be the headquarters for the proposed UN UFO office, with the goal of making the city 'the Geneva of UFOs'.

Rendall, author of UFOs Before Roswell: European Foo-Fighters 1940-1945, pointed out a telling detail from one of the 1936 memos Pinotti received, which describes Italian fighter biplanes as being unable to catch a cylindrical UFO traveling at '130 kilometers per hour'.

'That's very slow, about 80mph. The Italian Air Force fighter aircraft at the time, a CR-20 or CR-32, could go a lot faster than that – well over 200km/h,' he said. 'It's one detail that makes you think twice.'

Despite the skepticism around the case, the former head of the US government's UFO investigation unit told DailyMail.com that officials are taking the case 'seriously'.

'The incident is something we've taken seriously and we continue to take seriously,' said Lue Elizondo, who helped lead AATIP, the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program at the Department of Defense until 2017.

One Italian resident near the site shared information with DailyMail.com that predates the discovery of Pinotti's controversial documents.

Pinotti, San Marino science and culture minister Andrea Belluzzi, and fellow CUN executive Paolo Guizzardi at the San Marino science and culture government office this month
Pinotti, San Marino science and culture minister Andrea Belluzzi, and fellow CUN executive Paolo Guizzardi at the San Marino science and culture government office this month
The effort, named Project Titan, was approved by the San Marino government on January 19 this year, and Pinotti and Guizzardi had their first meeting with ministers on June 19
The effort, named Project Titan, was approved by the San Marino government on January 19 this year, and Pinotti and Guizzardi had their first meeting with ministers on June 19
Pentagon whistleblower David Grusch, 36, has claimed the Vatican is aware of non-human intelligences and helped the US retrieve a downed UFO from dictator Benito Mussolini
Pentagon whistleblower David Grusch, 36, has claimed the Vatican is aware of non-human intelligences and helped the US retrieve a downed UFO from dictator Benito Mussolini
Marco Negri, whose family have lived in Northern Italy for over a century, said his great-great grandfather told stories to his father of a strange metallic aircraft without wings that crashed in Magenta in the 1930s.

Marco, 42, said his ancestor Pietro Negri was Podesta (Mayor) of Arona from the 1920s through the 1950s, less than 10 miles from Vergiate where the alleged wreckage was supposedly stored, and about 30 miles from the suppoosed crash site.

'My great-great grandfather Pietro told my father a story about the strange crash in 1933, since he was young,' Marco said.

'It was a second-hand story told to me by my father when I was a child in the early 1990s. But it matches the story of the crash.

'I was told a strange metal plane with no wings crashed somewhere between Vergiate and Magenta.

'I was told there was a big censorship around this crash. The fascist secret police were sent to the surrounding cities to keep people silent about it.'

Marco, who says he and his family disavow their ancestors' fascist past, added that Pietro's position as head of the town and its police force meant he was able to see telegrams about the crash.

Marco said his great-great grandfather died in the 1950s and his father and other older family members he told his story have also passed away, offering no corroboration for the tale.

The Lombardy resident said his great-great grandfather's story also included a wild detail that Pinotti also described – without evidence: that two 'bodies' with blond hair were found inside the craft.

Marco said his ancestor described them as 'child-sized', whereas in presentations at UFO conferences, Pinotti said they were around 5'9' with 'light hair and eyes'.

The Department of Defense denies any crash retrievals by the US.

'To date, AARO has not discovered any verifiable information to substantiate claims that any programs regarding the possession or reverse-engineering of extraterrestrial materials have existed in the past or exist currently,' spokeswoman Susan Gough said.

[Micael]

A couple of thoughts regarding Grusch and the Italian (supposed) crash. I find it interesting that it was an example that he brought up in the open.

If he is a part of a desinformation campaign aiming to create the illusion that aliens are real I don’t think that this would have been brought up, an incident that had already been given some level of scrutiny and so forth. Rather a new story would have been invented to distance him a tiny bit from the ufologists.

If he is a part of a desinformation campaign that aims to connect the various sightings/incidents with aliens, and at a latter stage will be exposed as untrue, with the end goal to discredit the observations in order to maintain secrecy surrounding some terrestrial black project it makes marginally more sense. However, it’s an extremely convoluted way of doing so and carries with it a high degree of risk as it necessitates this high level of public exposure.

I think that neither of these two options are particularly likely scenarios. I believe that there is something else going on here. I don’t know what that is, but it’s probably something interesting.

On an unrelated note: I’ve seen some claims from unnamed sources that Bill Clinton was asked in a private context in the not too distant past (as in the last few years) about whether aliens were real. He supposedly said that he doesn’t know, but that he had aimed to find out during his first term (this is documented), but that when his little project there got going he was contacted by George HW Bush who told him that he needed to back off, and it fizzled out. Now if there’s some truth to this that’s interesting. It could fit into both the scenario of ”aliens are real, the US has recovered craft etc.” or that there were some black projects unrelated to aliens that the powers that be were afraid would be found out about and exposed if Clinton’s crew looked hard enough. So, interesting.

[Micael]

So on the topic of alien/UFO desinformation, why don’t we make note of one desinformation campaign of this kind that we’re pretty sure was just that.

Enter ”Project Serpo”. Now this is an extremely fanciful story with loads and loads of text documentation. It’s fantastic, but as it turned out it was most likely a US intel community desinformation campaign, twice even.

So what did it claim? Well in short that the UFO crash in Roswell and another one was real, an alive alien (of the ”Grey” type) survived on earth for five years and that contact was made with his civilization in the Zeti Reticuli system, and as a bit of tit-for-tat twelve humans were allowed to visit it for a thirteen year stay. Lots more with disturbing human/alien hybrid cloning and so forth. Anchored by a 3,000 page mission log/diary by the supposed mission commander.

However, based on later discoveries it seems that this was originally a desinformation campaign directed at the KGB. Essentially to try and spook them into believing that the US had alien tech at its disposal. Supposedly this worked for a bit but then the KGB figured out that it was faked. Not for a lack of trying though. Supposedly the extensive Serpo lore was created by Alice Bradley Sheldon, who wrote science fiction under the pseudonym James Tiptree Jr. She was also a CIA associate.

Much later the Serpo story came to public attention, around the turn of the century. This stage seems to have been a part of a long running desinformation campaign directed against a different target, the UFO believer community. Headed up by one Richard Doty along with four other intel community operatives.

Now this all seems to be fairly well documented by now, enough so that I’m willing to believe that at least the second desinformation campaign did exist.

The question I am left with then is why has the intel community been running desinformation campaigns directed at discrediting the UFO community? There has to be some reason behind it. Do we again return to the explanation of ”black projects exist that the government wants people to believe are of alien origin”? But that seems off somehow, if anything fantastical stories like these seems to fuel the public’s interest in UFOs and such. Perhaps one could propose that the underlying goal is to make it so unbelievable that it’ll be sure to keep serious research into the whole field at bay. But to me this sounds like the type of campaign where a kernel of truth is being obfuscated by injecting loads of false data around it in order to discredit it. And as a kernel at the heart of this the ”black project” explanation doesn’t quite fit, as I see it. With some hesitation, and considering what Grusch has claimed before congress I’m starting to wonder if maybe, just maybe, there may be an alien kernel lurking here. To be honest that’s a pretty unnerving thought to me, and I somewhat hope that there’s a more mundane, terrestrial, reason for all of this.

[Micael]

Ryan Graves posted this on X/Twitter, received from an airline pilot:

[] = edited info for privacy

"I am a [Major US Carrier] A320/321 Captain, the following sighting occurred during one of my flights recently.  Since I have shared my story, several other [Major US Carrier] pilots have reached out to me and shared their similar experiences, including sharing their video recordings of these objects from the Flight Levels.  All seen at the base of the big dipper.

[Last week of July], 2023, I departed Santo Domingo DR at 2305 destined for New York JFK.  My route of flight was L453 in NY Oceanic airspace, non radar hundreds of miles offshore.  At approximately 1 hour into the flight as we were approaching the southern boundary of the NY oceanic airspace, and at 32,000 feet,  I called out a visual on traffic that was excessively bright and looked like about 80 miles range... and then disappeared visually.  I never saw the traffic on TCAS.  Then a few minutes later I saw two objects round in shape, one lighted and one not flying in a formation just above the horizon, at a range I guessed of 120-200 NM.  The object/s would illuminate to be as bright as a star for several seconds, then go dark for a few minutes, only to illuminate again.  The brightness would vary from bright to very bright to dark.  The color of the lighted object was white light.  There was a second object you can clearly see in the photos that would follow the illuminated object, but it would not illuminate itself.  Except for the 3:10-3:30 second point of my video I think you can see the second object illuminate.    This went on for the remaining 2-2.5 hours of my flight to NY on L453 in Oceanic airspace.   After reviewing the photos, I think the objects might have been a bit further away, but distance is very difficult to gauge at night.

I have the brand new Samsung S23 phone which has the best camera on the market for a cell phone and I started recording this object in video.  I have a great 7 min video of it appearing and disappearing while I was talking to other airliners on 123.45 vhf about it.  You can hear that conversation in the video! Another airliner approximately 400 NM ahead of us at 36,000 feet stated they saw the same thing.

I also took about 30 photos of these objects in "night mode" on the phone and they came out really good... in one of them you can actually see the lighted object and the unlit object very clearly as round metallic objects.   All of the photos were taken with some sort of long exposure setting to be able to get as much light as possible to the sensor... You will be able to see in the long exposure photos the stars are pins of light but the UFO's are streaks of light because they are moving!  It is actually amazing!   All of this happened over about a 2.5 hour flight and continued for the entirety of our flight.  The light seemed to be on or just above the horizon until we got closer to our destination of NY.  Just prior to beginning our descent the objects appeared much higher in the sky 80-90 degrees above the horizon and much further away, actually out of the atmosphere."

——
Folks: Audio was removed for privacy reasons.

Video: https://x.com/uncertainvector/status/16 ... JG_Vm2jjAA

Stills:

[Micael]

Ross Coulthart has revealed a patch that he’s gotten hold of that is purportedly representing an outfit that’s working on reverse engineering recovered non-human craft.



The ”11001001” appears to be a reference to the Star Trek The Next Generation episode by the same name:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/11001001
Coulthart says that he’s been trying to figure out specificallt what in the episode its referencing. I saw someone on TwiX suggest this: ” “They’re not gentlemen—or ladies, Commander. They’re a unified pair. They’re always together.” — Riker, Star Trek: The Next Generation, Episode 15 titled “11001001”, Season 1.”

Coulthart said that the source that gave him the patch also asked him to convey the following, paraphrased:
Bob Lazar of UFO fame did work at Area 51 as he has claimed, but very briefly and he knows little of the recovered craft and operations. Most of what he’s said in public is made up BS. The S4 site by Area 51 is just a comms installation and does not have secret hangars nor does it house recovered craft. Unlike what Lazar claimed they’ve never managed to figure out how the craft work, or even managed to open it. Also, the name of the reverse engineering outfit was EG&G, and is currently JT4.

Obviously, take everything above with a pinch of salt. I don’t make any claims as to its truthfulness.

[Micael]

More from Coulthart on the supposed craft. For context the ”great uncle” bit refers to Coulthart’s source supposedly having a great uncle who worked on the reverse engineering team.

"The great uncle stated it was absolute proof of a non-human craft but the public would probably never get to see that photograph. He said quote, the object was egg-shaped, about the size of an SUV, silverish gray in color, smooth seamless, no control surfaces or propulsion visible, no writing, no symbols of any kind. A few men could pick it up yet it could not be cut open and x-rays couldn't penetrate it. The best engineers at EG&G tried to figure out how to activate it and what its power source was to no avail. They finally came to the conclusion it was a probe craft sent here from another planet." - Coulthart

[Micael]

Dozens Of Government UFO Whistleblowers Have Given Testimony To Congress, Pentagon, And Inspectors General, Say Sources

Despite the growing number of UFO/UAP whistleblowers, leaders the military and intelligence community are fighting greater disclosure

by @shellenberger @PhoebeThinking & @AndrewMohar8

Thomas A. Monheim, nominee for Inspector General of the Intelligence Community speaks at a hearing with the Senate Select Intelligence Committee on Capitol Hill on July 20, 2021, in Washington, DC. (Photo by Anna Moneymaker/Getty Images)

In August, shortly after U.S. government UFO whistleblower David Grusch gave testimony to Congress about crashed spacecraft and alien “biologics,” many observers wondered how much credence to put in his testimony. After all, Grusch is just a single individual. The other two individuals who testified before Congress were former Navy pilots who said they had no evidence of a government program to retrieve and reverse-engineer spacecraft of exotic and apparently nonhuman origin.

But at least 30 other whistleblowers working for the federal government or government contractors have given testimony, or a “protected disclosure,” to the Office of the Intelligence Community Inspector General (IC IG), the Defense Department Inspector General (DOD IG), or to Congress over the last several months, according to multiple sources interviewed by Public.

When told that whistleblowers had come forward to share information similar to that shared by Grusch with Congress, Mick West, a prominent skeptic of UFOs, said, “It'd be very interesting. You know, more people saying the same thing independently makes it more likely to be true.”

And yet the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community, Thomas A. Monheim, on September 15 appeared to deny, in a letter to Congress, that his office was investigating these claims. Monheim said that his office “has not conducted any audit, inspection, evaluation, or review of alleged UAP programs within responsibility authority of the DNI that would enable … a fulsome response.”

But the way Monheim worded his response suggests he gave himself some wiggle room. Matthew Pines, a civilian intelligence analyst, noted last week that “the official taxonomy for IC IG activities includes: ‘audits, investigations, inspections, and reviews.’ Is it curious that an ‘investigation’ is not denied?... The Investigations Division is structurally separate from the Audit and Inspections & Evaluation Divisions.”

The fact that dozens of whistleblowers have come forward is not evidence of extraterrestrial life nor of a government conspiracy to cover up a retrieval or reverse-engineering program. And not all of the whistleblowers may be reporting evidence of UAPs. Some may simply be reporting illegal or unethical behavior related to UAP programs.

But the sources, who asked to remain anonymous and are all in a position to know, told Public that, in addition to the whistleblowers reporting wrongdoing, between 30 to 50 government employees or contractors have gone to the DoD’s All-Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO) to offer testimony about UAPs.

“Some witnesses/whistleblowers are coming forward directly to AARO, some to the DOD IG, some to the IC IG, and some to Congress,” said Nick Pope, a UAP expert who worked on the issue for the UK’s Ministry of Defense.

Many have speculated as to whether Grusch and other UAP whistleblowers or witnesses might be part of a US government disinformation campaign.

A former US Air Force intelligence officer working at Kirtland Air Force Base in the 1980s through to the first decade of this century admitted to British journalist Mark Pilkington and others that he spread disinformation about UFOs with the aim of misleading civilian UFO investigators in order to cover-up both US military as well as nonhuman technology programs.

But, experts interviewed by Public say it is unlikely that people waging a disinformation campaign would do it through the Office of the Inspector General since doing so puts individuals at risk.

“Considering the broader context, to include Grusch’s allegations, previous reporting by Public, and the extraordinary legislation working its way through Congress,” said Marik von Rennenkampff, a former Pentagon appointee under the Obama administration, “I find it hard to believe that so many individuals would open themselves up to significant legal jeopardy by willfully lying to inspectors general.”

Knowingly giving false testimony to the IC IG is punishable by fines up to $ 10,000, imprisonment for up to five years, or both. If found guilty of lying to Congress, Grusch would face up to five years in prison.

At the same time, the history of past government disinformation campaigns in general, and as they specifically relate to UAPs, involves the mixing of accurate information and inaccurate information, making it difficult or impossible to feel confident in understanding the meaning of fundamental elements of the phenomenon.

That reality and the need to prevent government officials from deliberately misleading journalists, policymakers, and the public make greater transparency and disclosure essential, both UFO skeptics and believers agree.

“It’s either that dozens of highly cleared officials are in the grip of an enduring, bizarre delusion, are witting participants to a broad scale and long-running psychological deception,” said Pines, “or they are relaying factual information on extraordinary covert programs.”

Said West, “I can understand why people would think ufology is frivolous and a waste of government money, and we shouldn't be looking into it. But they don't think we shouldn’t release the secret information about crashed alien craft, you know, something everybody wants to see.”

[Micael]

Hmm.

After a classified UAP briefing in a SCIF in the basement of the Capitol this morning most lawmakers were closed-lipped, but Rep. Eric Burlison (R-MO) piqued our interest when he said he’s convinced either the US government, a military contractor or a foreign nation has “some advanced form of propulsion or technology.”

“What it appears to be is somebody has discovered something—some advanced form of propulsion or technology—that may actually change all of our lives,” Burlison said. “But clearly it’s in an experimental phase or we’re experimenting with it.”