Just saw this - Battlecruiser Alignment Chart

[kdahm]

Personally, I thought it was hilarious. And very clever.

[Nightwatch2]

Iowa is a battlecruiser?

Yea, cute graphic

[jemhouston]

Iowa is a battlecruiser?

Yea, cute graphic

Iowa is not evil.

[Pdf27]

Iowa is not evil.

More importantly, how the hell is Alaska not evil?

[jemhouston]

Iowa is not evil.

More importantly, how the hell is Alaska not evil?

Better question, why is Stalingrad good?

[Johnnie Lyle]

Iowa is a battlecruiser?

Yea, cute graphic

How are we defining a battlecruiser? A fast wing of the battle line? A heavy scout? A raider-killer? A capital ship that sacrifices other features to obtain higher than average speed?

Under definitions 1 and 4, IOWA is - compare her to the MONTANAs or SOUTH DAKOTAs, and you clearly see the sacrifices for the extra 6 knots. Her designers just chose to pay in size and firepower instead of sacrificing protection.

[Nightwatch2]

Iowa is a battlecruiser?

Yea, cute graphic

How are we defining a battlecruiser? A fast wing of the battle line? A heavy scout? A raider-killer? A capital ship that sacrifices other features to obtain higher than average speed?

Under definitions 1 and 4, IOWA is - compare her to the MONTANAs or SOUTH DAKOTAs, and you clearly see the sacrifices for the extra 6 knots. Her designers just chose to pay in size and firepower instead of sacrificing protection.

I don’t quite agree. It’s a fast battleship that gave up nothing compared to anything that preceded it in terms of protection or armaments.

Iowa sailor
1989

[David Newton]

How are we defining a battlecruiser? A fast wing of the battle line? A heavy scout? A raider-killer? A capital ship that sacrifices other features to obtain higher than average speed?

Yes.

[Johnnie Lyle]

Iowa is a battlecruiser?

Yea, cute graphic

How are we defining a battlecruiser? A fast wing of the battle line? A heavy scout? A raider-killer? A capital ship that sacrifices other features to obtain higher than average speed?

Under definitions 1 and 4, IOWA is - compare her to the MONTANAs or SOUTH DAKOTAs, and you clearly see the sacrifices for the extra 6 knots. Her designers just chose to pay in size and firepower instead of sacrificing protection.

I don’t quite agree. It’s a fast battleship that gave up nothing compared to anything that preceded it in terms of protection or armaments.

Iowa sailor
1989

She’s 15,000 tons heavier than SOUTH DAKOTA with small improvements in protection or armor to get that speed. You could have done a lot of other things with the tonnage (or the money) were you happy with 27 or 30 knots.

So yes, it’s a sacrifice.

Now, she’s closer to HOOD than INDEFATIGABLE, but she still demonstrates just how expensive it is to make heavily armed and armored things go faster than contemporaries.

[Nightwatch2]

How are we defining a battlecruiser? A fast wing of the battle line? A heavy scout? A raider-killer? A capital ship that sacrifices other features to obtain higher than average speed?

Under definitions 1 and 4, IOWA is - compare her to the MONTANAs or SOUTH DAKOTAs, and you clearly see the sacrifices for the extra 6 knots. Her designers just chose to pay in size and firepower instead of sacrificing protection.

I don’t quite agree. It’s a fast battleship that gave up nothing compared to anything that preceded it in terms of protection or armaments.

Iowa sailor
1989

She’s 15,000 tons heavier than SOUTH DAKOTA with small improvements in protection or armor to get that speed. You could have done a lot of other things with the tonnage (or the money) were you happy with 27 or 30 knots.

So yes, it’s a sacrifice.

Now, she’s closer to HOOD than INDEFATIGABLE, but she still demonstrates just how expensive it is to make heavily armed and armored things go faster than contemporaries.

Needed the speed to keep up with the carrier fleet. The key is that the Iowas gave up nothing wrt to armament or armor compared to the previous classes. They are full on battleships with extra speed.

And magnificent ships and quite the experience to have sailed on her into harm’s way. (Granted that hostilities did not ensue probably because it WAS the battleship armored and armed Iowa!)

[Rocket J Squrriel]

If you compared the Montana and Iowa classes I think Iowa would look more like a battlecruiser with less armor and more speed.

Bow if you built the Montana's in the version 8 configuration with the extra boilers and 2 extra shafts they could keep up with the carriers and still have the heavier armor. You might even be able to mount 4 triple 18 inch gun torrents.
https://www.deviantart.com/tzoli/art/Mo ... -779014493

[Nightwatch2]

If you compared the Montana and Iowa classes I think Iowa would look more like a battlecruiser with less armor and more speed.

Bow if you built the Montana's in the version 8 configuration with the extra boilers and 2 extra shafts they could keep up with the carriers and still have the heavier armor. You might even be able to mount 4 triple 18 inch gun torrents.
https://www.deviantart.com/tzoli/art/Mo ... -779014493

82k ton monster!

Interesting variations as super Iowas or super Dakotas

I would like to have seen Montana

Just think how many Harpoons and Tomahawks the 1980’s modernization could have added!

[1Big Rich]

Personally, I thought it was hilarious. And very clever.

Agreed, hilarious!

Thanks for that!

[Poohbah]

If you compared the Montana and Iowa classes I think Iowa would look more like a battlecruiser with less armor and more speed.

Bow if you built the Montana's in the version 8 configuration with the extra boilers and 2 extra shafts they could keep up with the carriers and still have the heavier armor. You might even be able to mount 4 triple 18 inch gun torrents.
https://www.deviantart.com/tzoli/art/Mo ... -779014493

In an alternative history:

Admiral Spruance detaches TF 54 to cover San Bernardino Strait, trusting Mitscher to get Ozawa's carriers.

Kurita on Yamato says, "We've got the biggest damn battleship in the world, what's the worry?"

Lookout: "Uh, sir, we're now apparently the fifth biggest battleship in the world. The Americans have the first four, and they're forming battle line."

Sigh. It would have been . . . glorious.

[Nightwatch2]

If you compared the Montana and Iowa classes I think Iowa would look more like a battlecruiser with less armor and more speed.

Bow if you built the Montana's in the version 8 configuration with the extra boilers and 2 extra shafts they could keep up with the carriers and still have the heavier armor. You might even be able to mount 4 triple 18 inch gun torrents.
https://www.deviantart.com/tzoli/art/Mo ... -779014493

In an alternative history:

Admiral Spruance detaches TF 54 to cover San Bernardino Strait, trusting Mitscher to get Ozawa's carriers.

Kurita on Yamato says, "We've got the biggest damn battleship in the world, what's the worry?"

Lookout: "Uh, sir, we're now apparently the fifth biggest battleship in the world. The Americans have the first four, and they're forming battle line."

Sigh. It would have been . . . glorious.

It would have been quite the event with just the Iowa’s, and South Dakota’s, and some Baltimore’s and Cleveland’s.

[kdahm]

In an alternative history:

Admiral Spruance detaches TF 54 to cover San Bernardino Strait, trusting Mitscher to get Ozawa's carriers.

Kurita on Yamato says, "We've got the biggest damn battleship in the world, what's the worry?"

Lookout: "Uh, sir, we're now apparently the fifth biggest battleship in the world. The Americans have the first four, and they're forming battle line."

Sigh. It would have been . . . glorious.

No, because they'd still be in the ways being built. Given the historical times for the Iowas and Montanas, I doubt they'd even be to the level of launching, much less getting ready for commissioning or being in the Pacific.

Also, you all are taking the chart way too seriously. If we look at the axis titles:

Good-Neutral-Evil is how much the ship actually resembles a battlecruiser

Lawful - chaotic has descriptions attached. It's somewhat incoherent. If it weren''t for Iowa, I would say Lawful is classic battlecruiser, but the armor meeting contemporary battleship standards has her as 'fast battleship' instead. Chaotic are cruisers that people shoehorn in because of size.

[Nightwatch2]

In an alternative history:

Admiral Spruance detaches TF 54 to cover San Bernardino Strait, trusting Mitscher to get Ozawa's carriers.

Kurita on Yamato says, "We've got the biggest damn battleship in the world, what's the worry?"

Lookout: "Uh, sir, we're now apparently the fifth biggest battleship in the world. The Americans have the first four, and they're forming battle line."

Sigh. It would have been . . . glorious.

No, because they'd still be in the ways being built. Given the historical times for the Iowas and Montanas, I doubt they'd even be to the level of launching, much less getting ready for commissioning or being in the Pacific.

Also, you all are taking the chart way too seriously. If we look at the axis titles:

Good-Neutral-Evil is how much the ship actually resembles a battlecruiser

Lawful - chaotic has descriptions attached. It's somewhat incoherent. If it weren''t for Iowa, I would say Lawful is classic battlecruiser, but the armor meeting contemporary battleship standards has her as 'fast battleship' instead. Chaotic are cruisers that people shoehorn in because of size.

i don't disagree but it is an entertaining discussion.

[Poohbah]

In an alternative history:

Admiral Spruance detaches TF 54 to cover San Bernardino Strait, trusting Mitscher to get Ozawa's carriers.

Kurita on Yamato says, "We've got the biggest damn battleship in the world, what's the worry?"

Lookout: "Uh, sir, we're now apparently the fifth biggest battleship in the world. The Americans have the first four, and they're forming battle line."

Sigh. It would have been . . . glorious.

No, because they'd still be in the ways being built. Given the historical times for the Iowas and Montanas, I doubt they'd even be to the level of launching, much less getting ready for commissioning or being in the Pacific.

Also, you all are taking the chart way too seriously. If we look at the axis titles:

Good-Neutral-Evil is how much the ship actually resembles a battlecruiser

Lawful - chaotic has descriptions attached. It's somewhat incoherent. If it weren''t for Iowa, I would say Lawful is classic battlecruiser, but the armor meeting contemporary battleship standards has her as 'fast battleship' instead. Chaotic are cruisers that people shoehorn in because of size.

Simply assume that Leyte Gulf is in 1948...

[kdahm]

In an alternative history:

Admiral Spruance detaches TF 54 to cover San Bernardino Strait, trusting Mitscher to get Ozawa's carriers.

Kurita on Yamato says, "We've got the biggest damn battleship in the world, what's the worry?"

Lookout: "Uh, sir, we're now apparently the fifth biggest battleship in the world. The Americans have the first four, and they're forming battle line."

Sigh. It would have been . . . glorious.

No, because they'd still be in the ways being built. Given the historical times for the Iowas and Montanas, I doubt they'd even be to the level of launching, much less getting ready for commissioning or being in the Pacific.

Also, you all are taking the chart way too seriously. If we look at the axis titles:

Good-Neutral-Evil is how much the ship actually resembles a battlecruiser

Lawful - chaotic has descriptions attached. It's somewhat incoherent. If it weren''t for Iowa, I would say Lawful is classic battlecruiser, but the armor meeting contemporary battleship standards has her as 'fast battleship' instead. Chaotic are cruisers that people shoehorn in because of size.

Simply assume that Leyte Gulf is in 1948...

Or if Kincaid had put a couple of radar destroyers at the mouth of San Bernadino St.
Or not read 3rd Fleet's internal messages
Or someone had put a bullet in MacArthur's brain before he could be evacuated from the Phillipines

My favorite would have been for Kurita to have been more aggressive and competent, pushed past the sky cancer on Oct 24th, and been met by the 4 Iowa and 4 Montana battleline, instead of pulling back.

[jemhouston]

kdahm, instead of a bullet in the brain, he should have been court-martialed.