Military training question

[Simon Darkshade]

I'm trying to do some research on basic training/military recruit training for some writing and have a number of queries for the brains trust:

1.) How long would a basic training/boot camp last for in the 1950s-1970s period in the USA and Britain respectively?
My understanding is that it is 10 weeks and 14 weeks at the moment, but how was the practice different during the period of National Service and conscription respectively?

2.) This is typically followed by a 'Phase Two' (in the British parlance) of 'trade specific' training or training particular to their MOS in the USA, which seems to be equivalent to 12 and ~14 weeks respectively. Was this longer or shorter during the period in question?

3.) I know this didn't happen historically, but in the circumstance whereby the 'conscription pool' of young men was not entirely lacking in (relative) experience and some general military skills, is there any basis whereby the initial Phase One/Boot Camp could potentially be shortened? I'm thinking of variously former CCFers or young men who had previously had a 'running start' through Home Guard service, or even something like the Australian Universal Service Scheme (https://www.awm.gov.au/articles/encyclo ... al_service ) for example.

4.) When men were called up, were they first assigned to "1st Infantry Training Battalion" or generic equivalent, and then after basic training, assigned to particular regiments? Am I correct in assuming this was done, usually speaking, on a geographic basis, depending on the regiment (in the case of infantry and RAC)?

Any answers and further related information will be most gratefully received.

[warshipadmin]

I was in the CCF in the 70s, apart from drill and what not to do with a rifle and some familiarity with map and compass work and radio drill (for some of us) I don't think it would have accelerated the training for real Army life.

[FLW]

I was US Navy, joined in 1973. Basic training was 8 weeks, after which you either went to your 1st command as an "undesignated striker", meaning you would get whatever job was handed to you, or to a school for training in a specific job. I went from basic training to a basic aviation mechanic "prep" school (2 weeks) then on to Aviation Structural Mechanic (Hydraulics) "A" school (10 weeks). All that was at Naval Air Station Memphis, Tennessee. From there to Fleet Readiness Aviation Maintenance Personnel (FRAMP) school to learn the specific hydraulics systems on the A-7 Corsair II (6 weeks) at NAS Lemoore, California. Then on to my first fleet command aboard the carrier USS Midway, homeported in Yokosuka Japan. So it was close to 6 months from the start of boot camp to reporting to the fleet.

[Poohbah]

Marine Corps Recruit training is generally focused on the very basic stuff: close order drill, customs and courtesies, physical fitness, discipline, wearing the uniform correctly, basic marksmanship, and maintaining your TO weapon. During Korea and Vietnam, it was abbreviated to eight weeks from the usual 11.

The infantry (or other) training comes after boot. In the Marines during this period, every male Marine (no matter their MOS) from boot camp (MCRD Parris Island or San Diego) to either Camp Lejeune or Camp Pendleton and the Infantry Training Regiment.

(Every Marine a Rifleman, baby.)

ITR was, to hear it from my senior NCOs in the 1980s, six weeks of basic infantry tactics classroom and field work.

After ITR, the Marine would either go to his MOS school, or if he was assigned as infantry, he would post to the Fleet. Frequently, during Vietnam, this meant a brief sojourn in Okinawa or the Philippines for jungle training and then posting to a unit forward in Vietnam.

[MikeKozlowski]

...USAF Basic/Tech training in the late 70s was intended to get people out as quickly as possible - six weeks of basic (drill, customs/courtesies, wear of the uniform) and then to tech school. Depending on your career field, that could be a DDA - you went to your base and got on the job - or a tech school. Longest I knew of at the time was 8 months, mine (USAF was desperate for Ammo) was just officially fifteen days.

Mike

[Simon Darkshade]

This one isn't about training, but rations, and has some specific components where hopefully some of the Amis, Britischers and the Continentals might be able to assist:

1.) When did the US Army switch over from providing free chow to the men to having them pay for it, even if indirectly?

2.) Was there a similar process for the Marines, Navy and Air Force?

3a.) For the British, what were some elements of the 10 Man Ration Pack/the successor to Compo Rations?

3b.) Were they distributed, as the approximate numbers suggest, on a section basis, or differently?

4.) For all former servicemen, what was the best ration item and why?

5.) What item or foodstuff should have been added in your experience and opinion?

[Bob Dedmon]

I went to basic in 1981, due to prior ROTC training I went thru basic in a fortnight. I then went to Sheppard AFB for aircraft maintenance training for a month...this was basically idiot level training. I then went to a type specific base to learn the aircraft I was to be assigned to this training was also a month, at this point I was just smart enough to be dangerous. When I got to my permanent assignment I hit the line sort of while waiting for a spot for more training which lasted a month or so. I was loaned to another squadron 3 days after graduating and went to Germany for a month.

[Bob Dedmon]

This one isn't about training, but rations, and has some specific components where hopefully some of the Amis, Britischers and the Continentals might be able to assist:

1.) When did the US Army switch over from providing free chow to the men to having them pay for it, even if indirectly?

2.) Was there a similar process for the Marines, Navy and Air Force?

I don't think the Army does that. When I was in (USAF) enlistees were to eat at the chow hall at no expense. Depending on their job they might be entitled to separate rations. This is/was funds to procure food outside the chow hall. If you elected to eat at the chow hall you were then required to pay for the meal. When I was qualified as a Dedicated Crew Chief I was entitled to separate rations as the thinking was that my duty hours were inconsistent and the mission would preclude access to the chow hall during their regular duty hours.

[Simon Darkshade]

The reference to indirectly paying comes from this thread https://www.tboverse.com/viewtopic.php?t=3096 on the Basic Allowance for Subsistence payment and associated kerfuffle.

[Craiglxviii]

This one isn't about training, but rations, and has some specific components where hopefully some of the Amis, Britischers and the Continentals might be able to assist:

1.) When did the US Army switch over from providing free chow to the men to having them pay for it, even if indirectly?

2.) Was there a similar process for the Marines, Navy and Air Force?

3a.) For the British, what were some elements of the 10 Man Ration Pack/the successor to Compo Rations?

3b.) Were they distributed, as the approximate numbers suggest, on a section basis, or differently?

4.) For all former servicemen, what was the best ration item and why?

5.) What item or foodstuff should have been added in your experience and opinion?

3a. The Ration Pack, 10 Man comprised The Four Blessed Menus, namely A (Beef & Onion), B (Babies Heads/ Steak & Kidney Pudding), C (Chicken Curry) and d (Chicken Supreme). Also included was Macedoine (veg stew), chocolate (bars and drinking/ powdered), Biscuits AB & Biscuits Fruit, Rolled Oats, Cheese Processed and Meat Paste.

10 man ration packs were issued at a company level and then drawn on section basis as required.

3b. There was no difference between the food components of the 10-man pack and the individual 24-hr pack, but the various ancillaries (spoons, can openers, milk powder/ tea/ coffee etc) that came with the bigger packs may sometimes be excluded from the 24hr individual packs.

Being section commander i/c the 10-man pack was to be placed in a position of almost unbelievable power, as one could then distribute the various menus out according to one’s own whim. Bwahahah, and YOU get Beef & Onion, or Man Fat & Glow Beans!

4. The BEST ration items, and I’ll take on all-comers for this, was for breakfast Rolled Oats with Chocolate Powder; for dinner Bacon Grill with Biscuits AB & Mixed Fruit Pudding for errr pudding, for afters/ late night snack Biscuits Fruit & Dextrose Tablets. Nothing else came close and those wussy boil in the bag things, pahhh.

5. Instant mashed potato. I can remember some of the lads bringing packets of Smash now & again and they went down quite nicely.

[Craiglxviii]

I'm trying to do some research on basic training/military recruit training for some writing and have a number of queries for the brains trust:

1.) How long would a basic training/boot camp last for in the 1950s-1970s period in the USA and Britain respectively?
My understanding is that it is 10 weeks and 14 weeks at the moment, but how was the practice different during the period of National Service and conscription respectively?

2.) This is typically followed by a 'Phase Two' (in the British parlance) of 'trade specific' training or training particular to their MOS in the USA, which seems to be equivalent to 12 and ~14 weeks respectively. Was this longer or shorter during the period in question?

3.) I know this didn't happen historically, but in the circumstance whereby the 'conscription pool' of young men was not entirely lacking in (relative) experience and some general military skills, is there any basis whereby the initial Phase One/Boot Camp could potentially be shortened? I'm thinking of variously former CCFers or young men who had previously had a 'running start' through Home Guard service, or even something like the Australian Universal Service Scheme (https://www.awm.gov.au/articles/encyclo ... al_service ) for example.

4.) When men were called up, were they first assigned to "1st Infantry Training Battalion" or generic equivalent, and then after basic training, assigned to particular regiments? Am I correct in assuming this was done, usually speaking, on a geographic basis, depending on the regiment (in the case of infantry and RAC)?

Any answers and further related information will be most gratefully received.

For the British Army.

1. Basic Training was 6 weeks long, and common across all Arms of the Army.

2. Following this the Recruit would pass out and enter either Advanced or Trade Training, dependent on his career path. Highly dependent on what that was, it could be anything from 8 to 30 weeks before the Recruit Trainee would complete his or her training course and be posted to a unit.

3. I’m not aware of this ever happening with the exception of Dartmouth Naval College’s final year in 1914 all, to a man being passed out as Midshipmen and posted to ships frantically working out of Reserve. Not only that, I am quite 100% certain that, for enlisted soldiers, any experience of CCF gained prior to taking the shilling would count for precisely zero when it came to Basic Training. For officers it was slightly different in that elements of the Officers’ Basic Course could be cut down had they spent sufficient time in the Officer Training Corps at school, but that was pretty much done by the end of the 1940s, and replaced in schools by the CCF from the late 1950s.

[Simon Darkshade]

Thank you Craig and Bob, that is just what I was looking for, with the level of detail and argot very useful.

On training: The OTC was what I was trying to obliquely refer to, so as to not give away all of my precious ideas… (Darn you Craig! My secret plan is uncovered! May your dextrose tablets be replaced with concentrated white pepper )

Many thanks.

[Craiglxviii]

Thank you Craig and Bob, that is just what I was looking for, with the level of detail and argot very useful.

On training: The OTC was what I was trying to obliquely refer to, so as to not give away all of my precious ideas… (Darn you Craig! My secret plan is uncovered! May your dextrose tablets be replaced with concentrated white pepper )

Many thanks.

my school had one (PDF27 will remember the photos!) that turned into a CCF.

Just to point out that school OTCs were different to University OTCs, but both (and CCFs, for that matter) could link directly to parent Regiments when it came to recruitment, postings and messing.

[Craiglxviii]

Thank you Craig and Bob, that is just what I was looking for, with the level of detail and argot very useful.

On training: The OTC was what I was trying to obliquely refer to, so as to not give away all of my precious ideas… (Darn you Craig! My secret plan is uncovered! May your dextrose tablets be replaced with concentrated white pepper )

Many thanks.

For much more detail and argot, see here! https://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/Category:Rations