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Craiglxviii wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 2:44 pm
NOW SIT ON SANTA’S KNEE AND TELL ME, HAVE YOU BEEN A GOOD TRANSPORTER OPERATOR?
Err yes
THEN YOU SHALL HAVE THIS GIFT! QA’PLA! MERRY CHRISTMAS! NEXT!
Craig,
You have no idea.
Mike
“Captain, this is the Bridge.”
“What is it, Mr. K’vek?”
“Signal from Admiral Wesley, on SERAPIS.”
“Very well, patch it in, please . . .
“Bob, what can I do for you?”
“We just received an odd signal from Admiral Kumerian on INVINCIBLE: SANTA KAPEK SAYS YOUR WEAPONS OFFICER HAS BEEN VERY GOOD THIS YEAR. STAR EMPIRE SHALL HAVE THE GIFT OF COMPETING ALONGSIDE INVINCIBLE FOR THE CHANCELLOR’S CUP TO CELEBRATE THE CHRISTMAS SEASON.
“Form on INVINCIBLE and make best speed for the asteroid belt the Klingons use for a gunnery range.
“And Johnnie . . . ”
“Yes, Bob?”
“ QA’PLA! Wesley out.”
“Mr. K’vek?”
“Yes, Captain?”
“Set course to rendezvous with INVINCIBLE. And K’vek . . . ”
“Yes, Captain?”
“Tell Weps that, if he misses so much as one Goddamned asteroid, I’ll shiv that Colosian bastard myself.”
MikeKozlowski wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 12:04 pm
"Hmmph," Kapek snorted. "As I understand your history, he did a poor job."
I can’t tell if he approves or disapproves of the poor job. Terran history must either amaze or very secretly terrify Klingons, seeing as how we have none of their natural martial advantages and yet are so bloody good at war.
...The Klingons have done a very deep dive into human history, and they don't like it one tiny little bit. The genocides of the 20th and 21st centuries really have no equals in Klingon history - brutal they may be, but not that bad.
When we're good, we're very good. When we are bad, it's Epic Standard.
What do the Klingons think of Vulcan's history. From what Spock and other Vulcans said, they were savage and cruel even by human standards. We got over WWIII in less than a century, Vulcan took 1000 years from the same lost.
MikeKozlowski wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 12:04 pm
"Hmmph," Kapek snorted. "As I understand your history, he did a poor job."
I can’t tell if he approves or disapproves of the poor job. Terran history must either amaze or very secretly terrify Klingons, seeing as how we have none of their natural martial advantages and yet are so bloody good at war.
...The Klingons have done a very deep dive into human history, and they don't like it one tiny little bit. The genocides of the 20th and 21st centuries really have no equals in Klingon history - brutal they may be, but not that bad.
Mike
As the Andorian friend of Ambassador Soval said, “Don’t push the pink skins to the thin ice.” Conversely, there is no word in Klingon for Sherman.
The big difference is that the Klingons appear to have ritualized warfare as a society similar to the Sioux, and as such have no real horrors of war as a society. It’s mitigated, built in, and there’s no real mechanism for their enemies to change the program.
There is no real drive to win permanently the way humans have, because Klingon society is not prepared for what a final victory means - nor could it maintain a final peace without serious social problems. They essentially practice cabinet war, trading a few solar systems here, a squadron there, but have no real desire to end the thing. It has the virtue of avoiding our more barbaric practices - which often come from our desire to impose utopia - but it also means they’re absolutely gobsmacked by what we will do when we take the gloves off and decide to win once and for all.
The Klingons have been able to get away with ritualized societal warfare for so long because nobody who hates them like the Siuox or Navajo were hated has the power or the allies to upset the balance. The Federation doesn’t want to. The Romulans can’t on their own and in the 2260s at least needed the Klingons to balance out the Federation.
Looping this back to The Last Starship, Chang, Kumerian and Gorkon know - and Kluge doesn’t, or doesn’t want to - how utterly ruthless the Federation would be if it were a war of survival. Nogura and Smilie also know, deep down, that we would cheerfully advance behind a volley of Genesis Devices should the chips be down and The Federation needed to win.
Last edited by Johnnie Lyle on Tue Dec 20, 2022 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jemhouston wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 9:50 pm
When we're good, we're very good. When we are bad, it's Epic Standard.
What do the Klingons think of Vulcan's history. From what Spock and other Vulcans said, they were savage and cruel even by human standards. We got over WWIII in less than a century, Vulcan took 1000 years from the same lost.
Jem,
It's my understanding that Vulcan actually started over from WWIII level damage collapse at LEAST three times, and was on the way to number four when Surak finally got their attention. Our recovery from losing about a third of the planet's population was amazingly quick by any possible measurement...and that unnerved the Vulcans as well. We never had a Surak; we did it by what was left of our own bootstraps.
But in answer to you question: the Klingons officially have a very low opinion of Vulcan - pacifists don't rank very highly in their eyes, and they are considered lapdogs to the Terrans and Andorians, who at least know how to fight. But in private and at the highest political and military levels, the Klingons are wary of Vulcan. They look at them as the big geek kid who might just snap the next time you trip him or kick him in the butt.
jemhouston wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 9:50 pm
When we're good, we're very good. When we are bad, it's Epic Standard.
What do the Klingons think of Vulcan's history. From what Spock and other Vulcans said, they were savage and cruel even by human standards. We got over WWIII in less than a century, Vulcan took 1000 years from the same lost.
Jem,
It's my understanding that Vulcan actually started over from WWIII level damage collapse at LEAST three times, and was on the way to number four when Surak finally got their attention. Our recovery from losing about a third of the planet's population was amazingly quick by any possible measurement...and that unnerved the Vulcans as well. We never had a Surak; we did it by what was left of our own bootstraps.
But in answer to you question: the Klingons officially have a very low opinion of Vulcan - pacifists don't rank very highly in their eyes, and they are considered lapdogs to the Terrans and Andorians, who at least know how to fight. But in private and at the highest political and military levels, the Klingons are wary of Vulcan. They look at them as the big geek kid who might just snap the next time you trip him or kick him in the butt.
Mike
It’s a standing Star Trek meme that humans scare the hell out of everyone, except (possibly) the Borg.
jemhouston wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 9:50 pm
When we're good, we're very good. When we are bad, it's Epic Standard.
What do the Klingons think of Vulcan's history. From what Spock and other Vulcans said, they were savage and cruel even by human standards. We got over WWIII in less than a century, Vulcan took 1000 years from the same lost.
Jem,
It's my understanding that Vulcan actually started over from WWIII level damage collapse at LEAST three times, and was on the way to number four when Surak finally got their attention. Our recovery from losing about a third of the planet's population was amazingly quick by any possible measurement...and that unnerved the Vulcans as well. We never had a Surak; we did it by what was left of our own bootstraps.
But in answer to you question: the Klingons officially have a very low opinion of Vulcan - pacifists don't rank very highly in their eyes, and they are considered lapdogs to the Terrans and Andorians, who at least know how to fight. But in private and at the highest political and military levels, the Klingons are wary of Vulcan. They look at them as the big geek kid who might just snap the next time you trip him or kick him in the butt.
Mike
It’s a standing Star Trek meme that humans scare the hell out of everyone, except (possibly) the Borg.
With Borgs, the humans consider the line what shall not be cross the starting line.
It's my understanding that Vulcan actually started over from WWIII level damage collapse at LEAST three times, and was on the way to number four when Surak finally got their attention. Our recovery from losing about a third of the planet's population was amazingly quick by any possible measurement...and that unnerved the Vulcans as well. We never had a Surak; we did it by what was left of our own bootstraps.
But in answer to you question: the Klingons officially have a very low opinion of Vulcan - pacifists don't rank very highly in their eyes, and they are considered lapdogs to the Terrans and Andorians, who at least know how to fight. But in private and at the highest political and military levels, the Klingons are wary of Vulcan. They look at them as the big geek kid who might just snap the next time you trip him or kick him in the butt.
Mike
It’s a standing Star Trek meme that humans scare the hell out of everyone, except (possibly) the Borg.
With Borgs, the humans consider the line what shall not be cross the starting line.
The Borg very much represent one of humanity’s worst fears, plus are by definition an existential war. Though we also probably give the Borg a case of the “oh shits.”
Which is why I was very irritated by Picard S2 retconning the Borg and abandoning the S1 world where something sufficiently bad happened to the Borg to both neuter them and make kidnapping and killing ex-Borg for their implants a viable industry. As ugly a story line as it was (though harkening back to Worf in TNG’s “Reunion”), it had interesting implications for both a post-Dominion War universe and the Borg overall.
jemhouston wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 2:03 am
Enterprise killed my love of Star Trek. The reboots didn't revive it.
My opinions are mixed. I liked the first few seasons of Enterprise, but it lost my interest around Season 3.
I hate the reboots. They’re boring stupid teenage action flicks in a Star Trek skinsuit. Anyone associated with that project needs to go through boot camp staffed by the Senior Chief to understand why things work in the military.
I loathe Discovery. It chose to double down on tropes I despise (the Mirror Universe, time travel, Section 31), did weird, disrespectful things to the Klingons and squandered what could have been a great storyline about peacetime vs wartime with the conflict between say Stamas and Lorca. The less said about Michael Burnham, the better - especially that stupid mutiny plotline. The only character I remotely liked was Ash Tyler. Michelle Yeoh’s prime Phillipa Georgou was great but too short, and while the mirror verse one was fun at times, it wore on me. Didn’t make it much past Episode 6.
Lower Decks is hilarious in many ways, and does get deep at times. But it also relies on embarrassing situations as humor too often, and that’s just cringy.
I liked Picard Season 1. A lot of legacy Trek from the 1990s was saccharine sweet, almost unwatchably now. Yes, that fits the hubris and innocence of the 1990s, but isn’t suitable for the 2020s when we’re all a lot older and have seen herds of elephants trample the dream of holding hands and singing kumbayah. The TNG episodes that hold up are like “Yesterday’s Enterprise” (Rachel Garrett is a serious contender for best ENTERPRISE captain) or “Best of Both Worlds.”
Picard was dark, but I found that plausible - especially after a long, multi-quadrant war that absolutely devastated much of known space. Where I disliked it were the missed opportunities. They absolutely misused the Borg cube - it should have been the Borg doing the last stand against the Romulans while waiting for the Federation cavalry, and that would have been one hell of a subversion and emotional payoff. Similarly, Elnor was chronically misused, and plotlines they gave to Seven should have gone to him. Finally, bringing Picard back to life as an android was a hell of a cheat - sucked all the emotions up. But it’s a universe where I wanted the pips, the Big Chair, and a ship and crew to be about it, and especially redeeming Starfleet.
Picard S2 pissed that away.
Conversely, I really liked Strange New Worlds. The episodic nature of it worked well, so you weren’t locked into the entire concept. Ethan Peck is phenomenal as a young Spock; I like the way they play with his and T’Pring’s relationship. La’an Noonien Singh is outstanding, and I like most of the supporting characters. And the emotional punches land hard - even in what looks like a silly episode. Finally, Paul Wesley plays a very smart, ruthless, brilliant Kirk in the finale. It’s very good. Hopefully S2 holds up.
The screen beeped once, and Major Friederich Groza, SFMC, touched it and replied, as much as from reflex as protocol, "Marine Detachment Star Empire, Major Groza, may I help you?"
Lyle's face popped into focus. "Fritz, John Lyle. Got a minute?"
Groza straightened and put on his best smile. "For you, Boss, any time. What can I do for you?"
"I need to borrow a good officer for the next few days. Somebody with serious diplomacy skills, can think on his feet, and with a highly developed sense of the absurd."
Groza thought for a second, running his hand through his close-shaven crew cut. "Got just the guy. Spit shined, squared away, polished, and a great sense of humor. With his platoon, he needs it."
Lyle grinned. "I'll take that as an endorsement. Send him on up."
"Aye aye, sir." The screen went blank and Groza leaned forward to call, "Gunny Ben Sidh!" Groza didn't have time to look down before Master Gunnery Sergeant Brigit Ben Sidh was in the door at parade rest, a stout, Irish, redeaded fireplug of a Marine. Groza was startled by her sudden appearance - he shouldn't have been by now, given how often it happened, but every time she appeared out of nowhere, he was convinced she had her own personal cloaking device.
"SAR!"
"Dammit, Gunny," Groza said. "How the hell do you do that?"
Ban Sidh's smile was kindness itself. "I'd tell the Major, but then I'd have to kill him."
Groza looked back at Ban Sidh skeptically. "Gunny, have you ever said that to another commanding officer?"
"Oh, aye, sar!"
"And how many of them have you actually killed?"
The smile went positively wolfen. "Well, sar - as I previously said...."
Groza tried hard not to grin, but he wasn't entirely successful. "My compliments to Captain Mantell; he is to report to the Old Man's cabin immediately."
"Aye, sar - is he in trouble?" That last came with a fairly hopeful lilt.
Captain Joshua Mantell straightened his uniform tunic one more time before touching the brass plate. He was rewarded with a gentle chime, followed by 'Come!" Striding in, Mantell came to attention and reported. "Captain Mantell reporting as directed, sir!"
Lyle returned the salute. "As you were, Captain. Have a seat."
"Thank you, sir. What can I do for you?" Lyle leaned forward and clasped his hands before asking, "Captain, what kind of experience have you had with Klingons? Since the cease-fire, that is."
Mantell reflected then answered, "Well, sir, nothing too extensive - a couple of grip and grins with their guys, a closely escorted tour down there, but not a whole lot of interaction. They're still a bit standoffish, but I haven't seen any flat-out hostility. Yet."
"Mmm. Any...hostile interactions before the cease-fire?
Mantell shook his head. "I was in training commands up until the cease-fire, then moved out here to the fleet. Heard lots of stories from the Gunnies and the more senior officers, though."
"None of them pleasant."
Mantell shook his head. "Pretty much, sir. I'm glad the future's going to be more peaceful - at least I hope it will be - but it's still a bit...difficult to imagine being friends with them."
"Don't have to be friends, Mantell. Just get along with them the best we can, get them to see our side of the story, and that's lightyears beyond where we were - the rest will take care of itself."
"Yes, sir."
"Which leads to why you're here. Our Deep Space Fleet LO, Commander Kapek, has shown an...interest in certain Terran customs."
"Really, sir? For instance?"
"Christmas."
Mantell blinked. "Christmas?"
"Yep. Wants to celebrate it with us. He had asked me to explain it to him, and I tried, though I may not have done the best of jobs. However, I think he's got the basic idea and his heart - I mean, hearts - are in the right place. He asked me to provide him an aide to assist in his efforts, and Major Groza reccommended you."
Mantell thoiught for a moment. "Sir, I'm extremely grateful for the opportunity....but what is it exactly I'm to help him with?"
Lyle paused, then spread his hands. "He seemed to be locked in on the gift giving aspect, so I would guess that he's going to try to hand out gifts...and if he's decided he needs to do that for six hundred people, he's gonna need a hand."
"To clarify, sir....I'm to be Santa's helper?"
Lyle steepled his fingers with a grin. "I rather like that, Captain Mantell. Report to Commander Kapek and anything he needs you get it for him, whatever resources he requires, make it happen. Feel free to use my name to achieve that; the only restriction is if he is about to do something that could kill my ship, crew, and/or start a war. But until that time, I expect you to A, conduct yourself as an officer of Marines and B, ....well, be merry." With that, Lyle threw a sharp salute that fairly whistled as it came down and turned back to his computer screen.
It took him a second to realize that Mantell was standing there.
"You're still here."
"Aye, sir. I have no idea what to do next."
"Help him learn, Captain Mantell. Be a good Santa's helper. Dismissed."
John Lyle sat, quite still and well behaved, as he watched the transmission from SFHQ on the monitor before him. On said monitor, FADM Karyn Cleavely, CINC Star Fleet, was slowly going through the hard copy of his report on the Christmas Eve Incident aboard Star Empire. He remembered that she was reportedly a bit old fashioned, liking her reports in hard copy with classic half-round reading glasses perched on her nose, and indeed there she was, looking more like an old-time school marm than the ferocious strike pilot she had been. The occasional 'hmm', 'ah', and 'I see' came through, and one 'ooooh', followed by her looking up disapprovingly, then going back to the report.
Finally, after what seemed like hours, Cleavely closed the report, folded her hands, and looked into the screen. "Captain Lyle," she said, "I have served StarFleet for more than thirty years. I have flown attack shuttles, I have commanded strike squadrons and ships of the line, and I have served as StarFleet's IG."
"NONE of that prepared me for this," she said quietly, placing her hand on the report.
Lyle's smile was as wide and friendly as he could possibly make it.
"I can explain," he said.
Later - much later, of course - John Lyle would say that in hindsight, there were a few things that should have raised red flags: the cargo containers, the malfunctioning clothing replicators, and the distinctly...well, increasing twitchiness of Captain Mantell, who was seen mostly careening to and from Kapek's quarters and a storage bay nearby. The cargo containers weren't that big, only about a meter to a side, but the duty transporter officer had been leery about bringing them aboard without inspection. When asked, Kapek would only bare his canines in what they were sure was intended to be a genuine expression of happiness and bark, "It is a SURPRISE!!" There was a brief consultation, but it had been made clear before they got to Q'onos that though the LO was there on a military assignment his posting came under diplomatic rules...and unless they could come up with a damned good reason, the containers were off limits.
Well, fair enough, but the clothing replicators were another matter. Commander Tomai, his CHENG, had sat down with the reports and repair tickets.
"Three days in a row, Boss. And not just his replicators, but the ones on either side of him. I had to completely trash the one in his compartment, and one next to him is on life support."
Lyle leaned back mystified. "Any idea what he's doing?"
Tomai shook his head sadly. "I asked as politely as I could, but all I can get out of him was, 'It is a SURPRISE!!"
But what really got Lyle's attention was a tiny, really quite insignificant matter in the forward chow hall.
"Well, Captain," Groza explained, Gunny Ben Sidh and I were getting chow, and we saw Captain Mantell."
"Eating chow, I take it."
"Aye, sir - but he looked....well,...nervous."
"If they were serving the spaghetti and meatballs, that's understandable."
"Beggin' the Capn's pardon," Gunny Ban Sidh spoke up repectfully, "but this was a lot worse than a gooned-up Bolognese sauce. Th' lad was spooked."
"And you determined this how, exactly...?"
"I snuck up behind him an' whispered, 'Surprise'. Poor bastard jumped six inches out of his seat, parmesan everywhere."
Lyle looked at Groza with considerable disapproval, but before he could say anything Groza said, "Already counseled the Gunny, sir." Ben Sidh simply smiled beatifically.
"Look," Lyle said, "today is the 22nd. I don't know what Kapek is planning, and I am sorry that Mantell may be getting a crash course in Klingon weirdness - but all we have to do is hold out two more days, Kapek gets this out of his system, you can give Mantell a three day pass, and all is right with the world again. Understood?"
The two Marines stood, came to attention and saluted, and left Lyle's cabin. He looked at the paperwork that the last three days of this had generated, and wondered why, oh, why couldn't he have been a public heath worker like his mother had wanted...
