Can't wait.Simon Darkshade wrote: ↑Tue Jul 29, 2025 1:08 pm The only issue with that is the the Culinary Institute of America is a real culinary school with copious famed graduates: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culin ... of_America
I already have plans for it, separate to any jokes about Christians in Action.
Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
- jemhouston
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Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
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- Posts: 1541
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:55 am
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
May 1975
May 1: Reverend Elvis Presley helps coach and motivate a young man from Milwaukee visting Los Angeles for a Hollywood screen test to jump over a live tiger shark on water skis, which he does successfully and without injury, save some slight water damage to his leather jacket.
May 2: The National School Lunch and Defense Program, first implemented in 1946 under President Truman and expanded in the 1960s under President Kennedy, begins implementing the recommendations of the 1974 Tarrare-Gloop Report, which called for the provision of meals including two servings of fruits, one each of green, salad and starchy vegetables, one of bread or cereals, a large portion of a meat dish, and a child-sized carton of milk. President Reagan had previously commented approvingly of the proposals when speaking to schoolchildren in Springfield, Indiana, stating "We want all of you boys and girls to grow up big and strong, so America can continue to do great things and defeat the communists."
May 3: West Ham win the FA Cup 3-2 over Fulham in front of a crowd of 136,274 at Empire Stadium, with Bobby Moore scoring the winning goal in the final minute to win his second Cup final.
May 4: The Times carries a feature story on 'The Glory of England's Monasteries', highlighting the architectural, artistic, cultural and literary treasures kept safe in the over fifteen hundred abbeys, friaries, priories, nunneries and monasteries, along the important role they play in support of the poor, homeless and indigent.
May 5: American military advisors in South Laos report an increased number of Miao fleeing from the North, carrying with them tales of vengeful oppression by the communist government.
May 6: Britain conducts an underground nuclear test at Maralinga, South Australia, the first in the Operation Hawkmoor, a new series of tests designed to prove new missile warheads and the British Empire's latest 'neutron bomb'.
May 7: President Reagan signs a proclamation declaring the official end of the Vietnam War period for the purposes of determining veteran's benefits eligibility; those US forces still deployed to South Vietnam or the broader South East Asian theater of operations will be eligible for the new South Vietnam Defense Service Medal should they serve in country for more than thirty days.
May 8: British infantry assigned to Home Forces begin testing new weapons systems and formation assignments on a battalion, brigade and divisional level, with infantry sections now equipped with an 84mm Carl Gustav rocket launcher in addition with the L25 Longbows assigned at platoon; antitank grenades distributed to section grenadiers; new miniguns assigned to battalion support companies; Royal Artillery anti-tank and infantry support gun batteries attached to brigades; and each divisional headquarters to be assigned a dedicated independent defence company. Additionally, wizardly training numbers now permit the assignment of a full circle of three fully equipped battlemages per battalion, considerably raising the potential for deployment of arcane combat spells and devices.
May 9: A task group consisting of arcane engineers, the Imperial Steamworks and the London Passenger Transport Board of the British Transport Commission completes a new integrated enchanted temperature system that will automatically cool the stations, tunnels and trains of the London Underground to an ambient temperate of 55 degrees in summer time and warm them to 75 degrees in wintertide, along with separate systems for cleaning and clearing air, improved access for the crippled and handicapped, and the activation of a centralised supercomputer system to manage capacity, train frequency and maximise efficiency. New works in the form of extension of the deep level lines, the quadrupling of lines in London south of the Thames, and the construction of a new north-south connection are progressingly steadily, although at considerable cost. Over 20,000 staff are employed by the LPTB, ranging from inspectors, conductors, guards, ticket attendants and porters to cleaners, engineers, navvies and tea ladies, separate from the almost 4000 members of the British Transport Police assigned to the capital, although crime on the Tube network is typically at a low level, purportedly through certain alleged arrangements with the Thieves' Guild.
May 10: Introduction of the Betamax home videotaping system in Japan by Sony; the television, tapes and recorder collectively retail for ¥224,800, or the approximate equivalent of $1499. It is the latest in a number of videotaping formats released over the last several years from Japan, Britain, Germany and the United States.
May 11: A special joint platoon of British and Zulu troops move to provide security at the Karisoke Primate Research Facility in the Volcanoes National Park after scientists there had reported the presence of suspected poachers. It is thought that the recent journey by Tarzan to London to personally lobby Prime Minister Barton for increased conservation security is behind the deployment, which is to be matched by similar measures in Tanganyika and Cameroon.
May 12: A Red Navy flotilla consisting of four Samarkand class destroyers, the guided missile cruisers Aleksandr Suvorov and Tretij Internacional and the battlecruiser Kursk arrives in Boston, the first Soviet ships to enter an American port since the Second World War; the occasion of their visit is part of celebrations to mark the thirtieth anniversary of the end of that conflict in Europe, with a USN force of a similar size arriving in Leningrad later in the day. Naval officers of both superpowers are evidently much moved by the historical nature of the occasion, taking copious photographs of the ships in question, no doubt to serve as personal momentos.
May 13: Initiation of Project Tamerlane, the prepositioning of munitions and equipment stockpiles in key British colonies and strategic island bases, ostensibly to facilitate the rapid deployment and reinforcement of local garrisons with forces from the Imperial Strategic Reserve. As much of the Empire continues to move towards full self government, strategic needs continue to shift. One of the preliminary recommendations in the report which lead to Tamerlane, namely that the personnel in the Colonial Regiments be transferred to War Office control, was apparently declined by the Treasury on grounds of financial considerations.
May 14: The British Ministry of Health reaches an agreement with César Milstein, Georges Köhler and Niels Kaj Jerne for a patent for the production of monoclonal antibodies for therapeutic use in treatment of inflammatory diseases and infections.
May 15: Dr. Strangelove, Director of U.S. Strategic Weapons Research and Development, is awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom in a ceremony at the White House, which sees the usually wheelchair-bound scientist seemingly recover the ability to walk.
May 16: Persian officials sign an extensive new trade deal with the United States, exchanging oil for an agreement for over $1200 million in targeted new investment, including a new modern port, a steel plant and three factories for the manufacture of sewing machines, white goods and other home appliances.
May 17: Former U.S. Secretary of Magic, Harry Houdini, 101, disappears from his hospital bed in Roosevelt Hospital, New York City, leaving nurses and doctors perplexed, given that the doors were closed and the windows securely locked. Incidentally, relatives of the retired British author Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, 115, are urgently summoned by telephone and telegram to his residence at Windlesham Manor in Crowborough, Sussex on unspecified business.
May 18: The CIA begins a covert programme of identifying children with particular talents with a view to recruitment as child agents for very particular missions and circumstances; there is some internal pushback against the notion, both on moral and fiscal grounds, with one unnamed senior official stating that this is a symptom of the Agency perhaps having more money than it can spend under new increases.
May 19: Retirement of Prime Minister Golda Myerson, the 'Iron Lady' of Israel, at the age of 77, in order to spend more time with her grandchildren and great-grandchildren during her golden years. She is succeeded to the office of Prime Minister by Sir Moshe Dayan, the former Minister of Defence and Israel's most decorated soldier.
May 20: The Home Office, in conjunction with the Commonwealth, India and Foreign Offices, begins a programme of voluntary repatriation assistance for recent migrants to Britain wishing to return to their country of origin, with provision of free air fares and ship tickets, along with gradated monetary incentives. The policy, originally proposed during the aftermath of the recession, has been substantially watered down after review by an interdepartmental subcommittee.
May 21: Two Italian-American plumber brothers from Brooklyn are commended after recapturing an escaped monstrous ape and rescuing a peachy princess from its simian grasp, subduing the beast through the release of a conveniently positioned truckload of giant mushrooms, which they used as platforms from which to leap forth. A vacationing Japanese video gaming developer employed by Ferranti EKCO observes the incident with curiosity, taking several dozen photographs and having an idea.
May 22: The expansion of the Grangemouth Oil Refinery to the largest in Europe is completed, with the complex capable of processing 525,000 barrels a day, or almost double of its previous capacity; the expensive expansion is seen as justified by the increasing production coming from the North Sea. The other twenty six operational refineries around Britain (Milford Haven, Fawley, Isle of Grain, Coryton, Harwich, Humber, Heysham, Teesside, Lindsay, Llandarcy, Stanlow, Pembroke, Canvey Island, Shell Haven, Londonderry, Cork, Greenock, Aberdeen, Sunderland, Hartlepool, King's Lynn, Westgate, Weymouth, Exmouth, Weston-super-Mare, and Avonmouth) are scheduled to be joined by new facilities at Aberstywyth, Poole, Blyth, Invergordon and Sutton in the next five years.
May 23: USMC Second Lieutenant John Patrick Ryan Jr is the only man injured in the accidental crash of a Marine Corps VCH-65 Kaman Sea Knight rotodyne in a NATO exercise on Crete, saving several of his men in the process. He is evacuated to the National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda for treatment to a badly injured back.
May 24: The mysterious American martial artist known as Count Dante and his Black Dragon Fighting Society re-emerge from obscurity, engaging a secret ninja clan known only as the Foot in a running battle across the night time skyline of downtown Chicago, reportedly culminating in several figures running on air and even the use of the dreaded 'quivering palm' technique.
May 25: Release of Dunkirk, a war drama directed by Richard Attenborough telling the story of the miraculous evacuation of Operation Dynamo in June 1940, which saw over 800,000 British Empire and French troops, 2400 tanks and 4000 guns and over 100,000 tons of stores successfully withdrawn from the Allied defensive pocket around Calais, Gravelines and Dunkirk in 12 days by hundreds of Royal Navy vessels and over 1000 'little ships' called up from civilian service. Kenneth More stars as Admiral Sir Bertram Ramsay, Sir Alec Guinness as Lord Gort, Robert Hardy as Prime Minister Sir Winston Churchill, Sean Connery as Field Marshal Ironside and Simon Ward, Laurence Harvey, Peter Firth and Jenny Agutter.
May 26: US runner Steve Prefontaine, widely regarded as a gold medal fancy in next year’s New York City Summer Olympics, arrives in Tanglewood, Oregon for a special training camp conducted by Jay Garrick and Jebediah McKenna.
May 27: The Archbishop of Canterbury meets with Pope Paul VI and Patriarch Demetrios in Athens for the latest in a series of discussions aimed at resolving differences around the Great Schism and other long running disputes between Christian denominations.
May 28: President Reagan begins his scheduled visit to Europe with a speech at NATO headquarters at the Palais de Argent at Roquencourt, pledging that US land, air, sea and missile forces dedicated to the defence of the Western Alliance will stand ever firm, and be strengthened with a new generation of sophisticated equipment and modern units suited to the changing battlefields of the 20th century. Almost 500,000 US Army personnel and 250,000 USAF personnel, along with 4600 aircraft and over 1200 missiles are currently assigned to US Army Europe and USAFE.
May 29: Argentine begins domestic licensed construction of a new guided missile destroyer based on the general parameters of the British Type 42 DLGs, albeit reduced in size and limited in armament by Buenos Aires’ finance. The Hercules class represent some of the largest and most modern warships yet built in Argentina, and are intended as close escorts for her new carrier.
May 30: World release of Galileo, a biographical film based around the Galileo Affair of the early 17th century, which served as one of the triggers for the Enlightenment and the Scientific and Arcane Revolutions, starring Topol as Galileo Galilei, Michael Lonsdale as Pope Urban VIII, Christopher Lee as Johannes Kepler, Donald Pleasance as Roger Bacon, Paul Scofield as Rene Descartes, and Alec Guinness as Leonardo da Vinci.
May 31: Royal Air Force Fighter Command and the British Army's Air Defence Command authorise a new study into the modernisation of British air defence plans in the face of evolving Soviet threats. The integration of current system of five overlapping circles of fighter defence, the four missile systems of the short range Sabres, medium range Broadswords, long range Super Bloodhounds and Blue Envoys and airborne missile defences with new Skyguard laser raygun ground battle-stations and a planned very long range multispectrum defence missile.
May 1: Reverend Elvis Presley helps coach and motivate a young man from Milwaukee visting Los Angeles for a Hollywood screen test to jump over a live tiger shark on water skis, which he does successfully and without injury, save some slight water damage to his leather jacket.
May 2: The National School Lunch and Defense Program, first implemented in 1946 under President Truman and expanded in the 1960s under President Kennedy, begins implementing the recommendations of the 1974 Tarrare-Gloop Report, which called for the provision of meals including two servings of fruits, one each of green, salad and starchy vegetables, one of bread or cereals, a large portion of a meat dish, and a child-sized carton of milk. President Reagan had previously commented approvingly of the proposals when speaking to schoolchildren in Springfield, Indiana, stating "We want all of you boys and girls to grow up big and strong, so America can continue to do great things and defeat the communists."
May 3: West Ham win the FA Cup 3-2 over Fulham in front of a crowd of 136,274 at Empire Stadium, with Bobby Moore scoring the winning goal in the final minute to win his second Cup final.
May 4: The Times carries a feature story on 'The Glory of England's Monasteries', highlighting the architectural, artistic, cultural and literary treasures kept safe in the over fifteen hundred abbeys, friaries, priories, nunneries and monasteries, along the important role they play in support of the poor, homeless and indigent.
May 5: American military advisors in South Laos report an increased number of Miao fleeing from the North, carrying with them tales of vengeful oppression by the communist government.
May 6: Britain conducts an underground nuclear test at Maralinga, South Australia, the first in the Operation Hawkmoor, a new series of tests designed to prove new missile warheads and the British Empire's latest 'neutron bomb'.
May 7: President Reagan signs a proclamation declaring the official end of the Vietnam War period for the purposes of determining veteran's benefits eligibility; those US forces still deployed to South Vietnam or the broader South East Asian theater of operations will be eligible for the new South Vietnam Defense Service Medal should they serve in country for more than thirty days.
May 8: British infantry assigned to Home Forces begin testing new weapons systems and formation assignments on a battalion, brigade and divisional level, with infantry sections now equipped with an 84mm Carl Gustav rocket launcher in addition with the L25 Longbows assigned at platoon; antitank grenades distributed to section grenadiers; new miniguns assigned to battalion support companies; Royal Artillery anti-tank and infantry support gun batteries attached to brigades; and each divisional headquarters to be assigned a dedicated independent defence company. Additionally, wizardly training numbers now permit the assignment of a full circle of three fully equipped battlemages per battalion, considerably raising the potential for deployment of arcane combat spells and devices.
May 9: A task group consisting of arcane engineers, the Imperial Steamworks and the London Passenger Transport Board of the British Transport Commission completes a new integrated enchanted temperature system that will automatically cool the stations, tunnels and trains of the London Underground to an ambient temperate of 55 degrees in summer time and warm them to 75 degrees in wintertide, along with separate systems for cleaning and clearing air, improved access for the crippled and handicapped, and the activation of a centralised supercomputer system to manage capacity, train frequency and maximise efficiency. New works in the form of extension of the deep level lines, the quadrupling of lines in London south of the Thames, and the construction of a new north-south connection are progressingly steadily, although at considerable cost. Over 20,000 staff are employed by the LPTB, ranging from inspectors, conductors, guards, ticket attendants and porters to cleaners, engineers, navvies and tea ladies, separate from the almost 4000 members of the British Transport Police assigned to the capital, although crime on the Tube network is typically at a low level, purportedly through certain alleged arrangements with the Thieves' Guild.
May 10: Introduction of the Betamax home videotaping system in Japan by Sony; the television, tapes and recorder collectively retail for ¥224,800, or the approximate equivalent of $1499. It is the latest in a number of videotaping formats released over the last several years from Japan, Britain, Germany and the United States.
May 11: A special joint platoon of British and Zulu troops move to provide security at the Karisoke Primate Research Facility in the Volcanoes National Park after scientists there had reported the presence of suspected poachers. It is thought that the recent journey by Tarzan to London to personally lobby Prime Minister Barton for increased conservation security is behind the deployment, which is to be matched by similar measures in Tanganyika and Cameroon.
May 12: A Red Navy flotilla consisting of four Samarkand class destroyers, the guided missile cruisers Aleksandr Suvorov and Tretij Internacional and the battlecruiser Kursk arrives in Boston, the first Soviet ships to enter an American port since the Second World War; the occasion of their visit is part of celebrations to mark the thirtieth anniversary of the end of that conflict in Europe, with a USN force of a similar size arriving in Leningrad later in the day. Naval officers of both superpowers are evidently much moved by the historical nature of the occasion, taking copious photographs of the ships in question, no doubt to serve as personal momentos.
May 13: Initiation of Project Tamerlane, the prepositioning of munitions and equipment stockpiles in key British colonies and strategic island bases, ostensibly to facilitate the rapid deployment and reinforcement of local garrisons with forces from the Imperial Strategic Reserve. As much of the Empire continues to move towards full self government, strategic needs continue to shift. One of the preliminary recommendations in the report which lead to Tamerlane, namely that the personnel in the Colonial Regiments be transferred to War Office control, was apparently declined by the Treasury on grounds of financial considerations.
May 14: The British Ministry of Health reaches an agreement with César Milstein, Georges Köhler and Niels Kaj Jerne for a patent for the production of monoclonal antibodies for therapeutic use in treatment of inflammatory diseases and infections.
May 15: Dr. Strangelove, Director of U.S. Strategic Weapons Research and Development, is awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom in a ceremony at the White House, which sees the usually wheelchair-bound scientist seemingly recover the ability to walk.
May 16: Persian officials sign an extensive new trade deal with the United States, exchanging oil for an agreement for over $1200 million in targeted new investment, including a new modern port, a steel plant and three factories for the manufacture of sewing machines, white goods and other home appliances.
May 17: Former U.S. Secretary of Magic, Harry Houdini, 101, disappears from his hospital bed in Roosevelt Hospital, New York City, leaving nurses and doctors perplexed, given that the doors were closed and the windows securely locked. Incidentally, relatives of the retired British author Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, 115, are urgently summoned by telephone and telegram to his residence at Windlesham Manor in Crowborough, Sussex on unspecified business.
May 18: The CIA begins a covert programme of identifying children with particular talents with a view to recruitment as child agents for very particular missions and circumstances; there is some internal pushback against the notion, both on moral and fiscal grounds, with one unnamed senior official stating that this is a symptom of the Agency perhaps having more money than it can spend under new increases.
May 19: Retirement of Prime Minister Golda Myerson, the 'Iron Lady' of Israel, at the age of 77, in order to spend more time with her grandchildren and great-grandchildren during her golden years. She is succeeded to the office of Prime Minister by Sir Moshe Dayan, the former Minister of Defence and Israel's most decorated soldier.
May 20: The Home Office, in conjunction with the Commonwealth, India and Foreign Offices, begins a programme of voluntary repatriation assistance for recent migrants to Britain wishing to return to their country of origin, with provision of free air fares and ship tickets, along with gradated monetary incentives. The policy, originally proposed during the aftermath of the recession, has been substantially watered down after review by an interdepartmental subcommittee.
May 21: Two Italian-American plumber brothers from Brooklyn are commended after recapturing an escaped monstrous ape and rescuing a peachy princess from its simian grasp, subduing the beast through the release of a conveniently positioned truckload of giant mushrooms, which they used as platforms from which to leap forth. A vacationing Japanese video gaming developer employed by Ferranti EKCO observes the incident with curiosity, taking several dozen photographs and having an idea.
May 22: The expansion of the Grangemouth Oil Refinery to the largest in Europe is completed, with the complex capable of processing 525,000 barrels a day, or almost double of its previous capacity; the expensive expansion is seen as justified by the increasing production coming from the North Sea. The other twenty six operational refineries around Britain (Milford Haven, Fawley, Isle of Grain, Coryton, Harwich, Humber, Heysham, Teesside, Lindsay, Llandarcy, Stanlow, Pembroke, Canvey Island, Shell Haven, Londonderry, Cork, Greenock, Aberdeen, Sunderland, Hartlepool, King's Lynn, Westgate, Weymouth, Exmouth, Weston-super-Mare, and Avonmouth) are scheduled to be joined by new facilities at Aberstywyth, Poole, Blyth, Invergordon and Sutton in the next five years.
May 23: USMC Second Lieutenant John Patrick Ryan Jr is the only man injured in the accidental crash of a Marine Corps VCH-65 Kaman Sea Knight rotodyne in a NATO exercise on Crete, saving several of his men in the process. He is evacuated to the National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda for treatment to a badly injured back.
May 24: The mysterious American martial artist known as Count Dante and his Black Dragon Fighting Society re-emerge from obscurity, engaging a secret ninja clan known only as the Foot in a running battle across the night time skyline of downtown Chicago, reportedly culminating in several figures running on air and even the use of the dreaded 'quivering palm' technique.
May 25: Release of Dunkirk, a war drama directed by Richard Attenborough telling the story of the miraculous evacuation of Operation Dynamo in June 1940, which saw over 800,000 British Empire and French troops, 2400 tanks and 4000 guns and over 100,000 tons of stores successfully withdrawn from the Allied defensive pocket around Calais, Gravelines and Dunkirk in 12 days by hundreds of Royal Navy vessels and over 1000 'little ships' called up from civilian service. Kenneth More stars as Admiral Sir Bertram Ramsay, Sir Alec Guinness as Lord Gort, Robert Hardy as Prime Minister Sir Winston Churchill, Sean Connery as Field Marshal Ironside and Simon Ward, Laurence Harvey, Peter Firth and Jenny Agutter.
May 26: US runner Steve Prefontaine, widely regarded as a gold medal fancy in next year’s New York City Summer Olympics, arrives in Tanglewood, Oregon for a special training camp conducted by Jay Garrick and Jebediah McKenna.
May 27: The Archbishop of Canterbury meets with Pope Paul VI and Patriarch Demetrios in Athens for the latest in a series of discussions aimed at resolving differences around the Great Schism and other long running disputes between Christian denominations.
May 28: President Reagan begins his scheduled visit to Europe with a speech at NATO headquarters at the Palais de Argent at Roquencourt, pledging that US land, air, sea and missile forces dedicated to the defence of the Western Alliance will stand ever firm, and be strengthened with a new generation of sophisticated equipment and modern units suited to the changing battlefields of the 20th century. Almost 500,000 US Army personnel and 250,000 USAF personnel, along with 4600 aircraft and over 1200 missiles are currently assigned to US Army Europe and USAFE.
May 29: Argentine begins domestic licensed construction of a new guided missile destroyer based on the general parameters of the British Type 42 DLGs, albeit reduced in size and limited in armament by Buenos Aires’ finance. The Hercules class represent some of the largest and most modern warships yet built in Argentina, and are intended as close escorts for her new carrier.
May 30: World release of Galileo, a biographical film based around the Galileo Affair of the early 17th century, which served as one of the triggers for the Enlightenment and the Scientific and Arcane Revolutions, starring Topol as Galileo Galilei, Michael Lonsdale as Pope Urban VIII, Christopher Lee as Johannes Kepler, Donald Pleasance as Roger Bacon, Paul Scofield as Rene Descartes, and Alec Guinness as Leonardo da Vinci.
May 31: Royal Air Force Fighter Command and the British Army's Air Defence Command authorise a new study into the modernisation of British air defence plans in the face of evolving Soviet threats. The integration of current system of five overlapping circles of fighter defence, the four missile systems of the short range Sabres, medium range Broadswords, long range Super Bloodhounds and Blue Envoys and airborne missile defences with new Skyguard laser raygun ground battle-stations and a planned very long range multispectrum defence missile.
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- Posts: 1541
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:55 am
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
May 1975 Notes
- Elvis helps Fonzie to jump the shark, with style
- American school lunches are heading in a different trajectory, given mandated inclusion of various food types (without the workaround of labelling tomato ketchup as a fruit), and the way that it has been 'sold' as a defence related measure. The name of the 1974 report references two famed gluttons, whilst the schoolchildren at Springfield Elementary are going to eat rather better in future than their counterparts in another universe
- Bobby Moore remains at West Ham, allowing him to experience more success
- There is no dissolution of the monasteries under Henry VIII (due to a number of reasons, including having a few different advisors at the right times), with their estates being taken over by the Crown, but the establishments themselves, their contents, and their community role, remaining in place. That has flow on effects on the development of vagrancy and Poor Laws under the Tudors, and subsequent welfare development
- The Miao/Hmong are bugging out from North Laos, rather than Laos altogether; there won't be a very big flow outwards from Indochina
- British nuclear tests continue, rather than piggybacking on the Yanks, with a number of new weapons systems being planned
- The end of Vietnam for service purposes in historical; with the continuing deployments to the area, a similar medal to that awarded (subsequently) for service in South Korea is mooted
- A lot of new tactical/equipment testing going on by Home Forces, which is one of their major peacetime roes. The Charlie Gs and anti-tank grenades are pretty par for the course, but the miniguns are different. Anti-tank guns making a semi comeback is a bit of a response to suspected Soviet weapon systems, whilst the divisional defence companies are something touched upon a few times and places historically. Finally, a full circle of 3 wizards per battalion is a very large increase in defensive, offensive and reconnaissance capability, among other improvements
- The London Underground will no longer be hellishly hot and humid in the summer, through the use of arcanely channeled steam systems. Note the ongoing presence of the British Transport Commission. The additional works on the Tube, including major expansion south of the Thames, new connectors and extension of existing deep level lines. The LPTB has a lot more employees on the Underground, the trams and on the buses, whilst there is a quite strong BTP presence at stations; there is a lot less crime than would be reasonably expected
- Betamax won't be in a two horse race here
- Dian Fossey's research facility, along with those of Jane Goodall and others, get a bit of dedicated security at the request of Tarzan, who has a fair bit of cachet with Western governments
- The mutual naval visits are historical, but occur on a slightly larger level here, giving plenty of observers and intelligence officers plenty of things to do
- Project Tamerlane is a bit of a preparation for a potential broken-backed war, a bit of regional preplacement of stocks, and a bit of working in regional security plans
- The Ministry of Health doesn't knock back scientists with potentially useful medicines
- Dr. Strangelove is a funny chap, but very smart and has made a lot of contributions to US strategic policy
- Persia continues to modernise, bit by bit
- Houdini and Doyle going missing is a very interesting course of events, almost worthy of a television series...
- CIA recruitment of children is more of a sign that they are getting a lot more money than they can reasonably spend than any dark designs on armies of youngsters
- Golda Myerson/Meier is replaced here by Dayan, who hasn't had a conflict in 1973 to partially tarnish his brand
- Voluntary repatriation programmes were already raising their heads in a few places
- Italian plumbers? Peachy princesses? Big apes? Mushrooms? Interesting combination
- Grangemouth is rather larger, reflecting the British share of the North Sea; there are a lot more oil refineries around Britain and Ireland, with many being rather specialised
- Jack Ryan starts recovering, with his injury holding him back
- Count Dante has a bit more success here, against the Foot Clan
- Dunkirk is a bit of a mixed high level/low level rendering of Dynamo, as compared to the 1958 film's slightly more human/low level focus. Robert Hardy is making a very good career out of playing Churchill
- Steve Prefontaine doesn't die in a car accident here, paving the way for success next year in NYC
- Mending the Great Schism will take a very great and vigourous religious leader indeed
- US forces in Europe are in the process of modernisation, greatly increasing their already substantial capabilities
- Argentina building its own mini DLGs is a further sign of their different development, even though there is a somewhat analogous link with the @ Type 42s
- Galileo is a different picture, with a bit of a surprise twist 'happy ending' due to some interesting Papal changes
- British air defences are on a different trajectory, growing stronger, rather than thinner
- Elvis helps Fonzie to jump the shark, with style
- American school lunches are heading in a different trajectory, given mandated inclusion of various food types (without the workaround of labelling tomato ketchup as a fruit), and the way that it has been 'sold' as a defence related measure. The name of the 1974 report references two famed gluttons, whilst the schoolchildren at Springfield Elementary are going to eat rather better in future than their counterparts in another universe
- Bobby Moore remains at West Ham, allowing him to experience more success
- There is no dissolution of the monasteries under Henry VIII (due to a number of reasons, including having a few different advisors at the right times), with their estates being taken over by the Crown, but the establishments themselves, their contents, and their community role, remaining in place. That has flow on effects on the development of vagrancy and Poor Laws under the Tudors, and subsequent welfare development
- The Miao/Hmong are bugging out from North Laos, rather than Laos altogether; there won't be a very big flow outwards from Indochina
- British nuclear tests continue, rather than piggybacking on the Yanks, with a number of new weapons systems being planned
- The end of Vietnam for service purposes in historical; with the continuing deployments to the area, a similar medal to that awarded (subsequently) for service in South Korea is mooted
- A lot of new tactical/equipment testing going on by Home Forces, which is one of their major peacetime roes. The Charlie Gs and anti-tank grenades are pretty par for the course, but the miniguns are different. Anti-tank guns making a semi comeback is a bit of a response to suspected Soviet weapon systems, whilst the divisional defence companies are something touched upon a few times and places historically. Finally, a full circle of 3 wizards per battalion is a very large increase in defensive, offensive and reconnaissance capability, among other improvements
- The London Underground will no longer be hellishly hot and humid in the summer, through the use of arcanely channeled steam systems. Note the ongoing presence of the British Transport Commission. The additional works on the Tube, including major expansion south of the Thames, new connectors and extension of existing deep level lines. The LPTB has a lot more employees on the Underground, the trams and on the buses, whilst there is a quite strong BTP presence at stations; there is a lot less crime than would be reasonably expected
- Betamax won't be in a two horse race here
- Dian Fossey's research facility, along with those of Jane Goodall and others, get a bit of dedicated security at the request of Tarzan, who has a fair bit of cachet with Western governments
- The mutual naval visits are historical, but occur on a slightly larger level here, giving plenty of observers and intelligence officers plenty of things to do
- Project Tamerlane is a bit of a preparation for a potential broken-backed war, a bit of regional preplacement of stocks, and a bit of working in regional security plans
- The Ministry of Health doesn't knock back scientists with potentially useful medicines
- Dr. Strangelove is a funny chap, but very smart and has made a lot of contributions to US strategic policy
- Persia continues to modernise, bit by bit
- Houdini and Doyle going missing is a very interesting course of events, almost worthy of a television series...
- CIA recruitment of children is more of a sign that they are getting a lot more money than they can reasonably spend than any dark designs on armies of youngsters
- Golda Myerson/Meier is replaced here by Dayan, who hasn't had a conflict in 1973 to partially tarnish his brand
- Voluntary repatriation programmes were already raising their heads in a few places
- Italian plumbers? Peachy princesses? Big apes? Mushrooms? Interesting combination
- Grangemouth is rather larger, reflecting the British share of the North Sea; there are a lot more oil refineries around Britain and Ireland, with many being rather specialised
- Jack Ryan starts recovering, with his injury holding him back
- Count Dante has a bit more success here, against the Foot Clan
- Dunkirk is a bit of a mixed high level/low level rendering of Dynamo, as compared to the 1958 film's slightly more human/low level focus. Robert Hardy is making a very good career out of playing Churchill
- Steve Prefontaine doesn't die in a car accident here, paving the way for success next year in NYC
- Mending the Great Schism will take a very great and vigourous religious leader indeed
- US forces in Europe are in the process of modernisation, greatly increasing their already substantial capabilities
- Argentina building its own mini DLGs is a further sign of their different development, even though there is a somewhat analogous link with the @ Type 42s
- Galileo is a different picture, with a bit of a surprise twist 'happy ending' due to some interesting Papal changes
- British air defences are on a different trajectory, growing stronger, rather than thinner
- jemhouston
- Posts: 5567
- Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:38 am
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Slight disagreement, Jack Ryan wasn't held back. He was directed his abilities in different directions. Good decision maker under pressure with less than great information. Temper is still an issue.
Looking forward to what you have planned for him.
Looking forward to what you have planned for him.
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- Posts: 1541
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:55 am
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Ah, Jem, you mistake a generic pun ( "I had my spine removed, as it was holding me back" ) with serious analysis. Quite true about the character in Clancy's works; he will turn out a bit different here, on account of the different world, Ireland being majority Protestant and the different global strategic balance.
What we will likely see, in time, is some things and adventures similar to his early travails before he got promoted in every single novel.
What we will likely see, in time, is some things and adventures similar to his early travails before he got promoted in every single novel.
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- Posts: 1541
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:55 am
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
1975 Cost of Living and Wages
A.) Weekly Gross Wages/Salary
Labourer: £20
Traffic Warden: £21
Typist: £21
Receptionist: £23
Security Guard: £24
Storeman: £25
Lorry Driver: £26
Postman: £27
Salesman, department store: £28
Bus Driver: £28
Textile Worker: £29
Police Constable: £30
Tradesman: £30
Shipbuilder: £32
Automotive production worker: £32
Coalminer: £33
Steelworker: £33
Clerical worker: £35
Fireman: £36
Teacher: £38
Nurse: £39
Bank Teller: £40
Train driver: £40
Journalist: £42
Accountant: £75
Salesman at medium sized firm: £90
Airline pilot: £125
Manager: £140
MP: £150
Engineer: £150
Scientist: £170
Solicitor: £180
Dentist: £200
Doctor, General Practice: £300
Private, British Army: £25 (plus extras, food and lodgings, and scaled pay)
Corporal: £30
Sergeant: £35
Second Lieutenant: £36
Lieutenant: £42
Captain: £60
Major: £75
Lieutenant-Colonel: £90
B.) Cost of Typical Goods and Services
New house £5362
Home Computer £875
Refrigerator-Freezer £96
Microwave Oven: £189
Colour television £100
Men's watch: £8-15
Pocket calculator: £40
New family car £652
Transistor radio: £6
Gramophone: £18
LP record: 6d
Washing Machine: £78
Electric Kettle: £5
Kitchen Mixer: £20
Electric Typewriter: £15
Sewing Machine: £27
Polaroid Camera: £5
Alarm Clock: £4
Child’s bike: £20
Nerf Ball: 6s
Teddy Bear: 12s
Pony: £99
New D&D game: £2 10s
Toy Sword: £2
Action Man: 12s
Toy SLR: £2 15s
Meccano Set: £1
Board game: 3s
Etch a Sketch: 6s
Space Hopper: 12s
Walkie Talkie Set: £1
Pogo Stick: 8s
Magna Doodle: £1
Comic Book: 2p
Barbie Doll: 6s
Lego Set: 12s
Train Set: 18s
Scalextric Set: £1 12s 6d
Toy soldier set: 6s
Monopoly: £1 3/2
Monthly Electricity bill: £6
Monthly Gas Bill: £4
Monthly Water Bill: £3
Monthly Steam Bill: £2
Monthly Mortgage Repayment: £24
Monthly Council Rates: £16
Monthly Telephone Rental: £2
British Railways Monthly Season Ticket: £10
Rent (1 bedroom flat): £2 10s/week
Rent (3 bedroom house): £6 4s/week
Week’s Holiday for 5 at Butlin’s: £55
Week’s Holiday for 2 in Minorca: £140
Week’s Holiday for 5 in Lyonesse: £125
Week’s Family Holiday for 5 in West Indies: £320
Year’s School Fees at Eton: £575
Year’s Minor Public School Fees: £250
Can of soft drink: 1d
Pint of Bitter: 6d
Packet of 20 cigarettes: 1s 9d
Bottle of whisky: £2 10s
Fish and Chips (1 serve): 2s
3 course Restaurant Meal: £1 12s 10d
Box of Matches: 1/2d
Diamond engagement ring: £30+
32 volume set of Encyclopedia Britannica: £90
Paperback Novel: 1s 10d
Newspaper: 1d
First class stamp: 1d
Gallon of Petrol: 5s
Cinema ticket: 3s
Local Telephone Call: 3d
Box of 20 .303" bullets: £1 1/2
Rifle: £50
Webley revolver: £36
Pair of men's socks: 1s
Underwear: 1s
Men's shirt: 2s
Woman's dress: £8
Suit: £23
Men's overcoat: £14
London to Manchester 1 way rail ticket: £1 6s second class/ £2 10s first class
London to Edinburgh 1 way: £3 10s second class/£5 6s first class
C.) Family Weekly Budget 1975
£19 4s 2d
Essentials: £2 5s 6d
Pint of Milk (3d) x 28 7s
White Sliced Loaf (6d) x 7 3s 6d
1lb Cheddar (3s) x 3 9s
1/4lb of Tea (2s) 2s
2 x 1lb of Butter (3s) 6s
2 x 3lb flour 1s
3 dozen eggs 3s
3 x 12oz Cornflakes 3s
2 x 12oz Wheatabix 4s
2lb Oats 2s
2 x 2lb sugar 4s
1lb Lard/Dripping 1s
Pantry: £2 4s
Tinned Soup: 1s
Tinned Carrots: 1s
Tinned Green Beans: 1s
Tinned Peas: 1s
Tinned Baked Beans: 1s
Tinned Stewed Steak: 3s
Tinned Salmon: 3s
Tinned Sardines: 2s
Tinned Ham: 3s
Tin of Corned Beef: 3s
Tin of Meat Spread: 3s
Tinned Peaches 3s
Tinned Pineapple 3s
Tinned Strawberries 3s
Tinned Fruit Cocktail 3s
1 tin Ovaltine 2s
1 tin Milo 2s
1 jar Branston Pickle 2s
1 bottle Lea and Perrin's Worcestershire Sauce 2s
1 bottle Halford's Leicestershire Sauce 2s
Meat: £9 18s 6d
3lb Bacon 12s
2lb pork sausages: 12s
2lb New Zealand lamb chops £1 6s
5lb beef sirloin joint: £2 12s 4d
2lb gammon steaks: 12s
2 1/2 lb beef rump steak: £2 6s 8d
2 chickens £1
2lb ham: £1
1lb suet: 6d
(5lb leg of mutton £2)
(4lb beef chuck: £1 12s 6d)
(4lb beef silverside: £1 8s)
(4lb veal joint: £2 3s 5d)
(2lb beef sirloin steak: £3)
(2lb minced beef: £1)
(2lb corned beef: £1)
Sauces/Condiments: 10s
12oz Heinz ketchup 2s
12oz Heinz salad cream 2s
16oz Jar of Honey 2s
16oz Jar of Strawberry Jam 2s
16oz Jar of Marmalade 2s
Fish: £1 2s
1lb Kippers: 2s
2lb Cod: 8s
2lb Fish Fingers: 4s
2lb Haddock: 6s
1lb Mackerel: 2s
Fruit: £1 2s 2d
2lb Apples: 6d
1lb Pears: 3d
1lb Bananas: 6d
1lb Strawberries: 6d
1lb Blueberries: 6d
1lb Plums: 6d
1lb Peaches: 6d
1lb Apricots: 9d
1lb Oranges: 2s 7d
1lb Grapes: 3s
3 pints Orange Juice: 12s
Vegetables: £1 11s
10lb potatoes: 10s
4lb cabbage: 2s
3lb carrots: 3s
2 x 2lb peas: 2s
2lb onions: 2s
2lb cauliflower: 2s
2lb turnips/swedes: 6d
2lb tomatoes: 2s
2lb cucumber: 1s 6d
2lb mushrooms: 2s
2lb runner beans: 2s
4lb lettuce: 2s
Assorted: £1 1s
Large pack of crisps 1s
8oz bar Cadbury's Dairy Milk Chocolate 1s
Cadbury's Roses Box 2s
Angel Delight 6d
Bird's Custard 10d
1 packet of Paxo stuffing 6d
1 packet chocolate biscuits 6s
1lb sweets 2d
2lb Ice Cream: 3s
1 x 2 pint bottle of Orange Squash: 3s
1x 2 pint bottle of Lemonade: 3s
A.) Weekly Gross Wages/Salary
Labourer: £20
Traffic Warden: £21
Typist: £21
Receptionist: £23
Security Guard: £24
Storeman: £25
Lorry Driver: £26
Postman: £27
Salesman, department store: £28
Bus Driver: £28
Textile Worker: £29
Police Constable: £30
Tradesman: £30
Shipbuilder: £32
Automotive production worker: £32
Coalminer: £33
Steelworker: £33
Clerical worker: £35
Fireman: £36
Teacher: £38
Nurse: £39
Bank Teller: £40
Train driver: £40
Journalist: £42
Accountant: £75
Salesman at medium sized firm: £90
Airline pilot: £125
Manager: £140
MP: £150
Engineer: £150
Scientist: £170
Solicitor: £180
Dentist: £200
Doctor, General Practice: £300
Private, British Army: £25 (plus extras, food and lodgings, and scaled pay)
Corporal: £30
Sergeant: £35
Second Lieutenant: £36
Lieutenant: £42
Captain: £60
Major: £75
Lieutenant-Colonel: £90
B.) Cost of Typical Goods and Services
New house £5362
Home Computer £875
Refrigerator-Freezer £96
Microwave Oven: £189
Colour television £100
Men's watch: £8-15
Pocket calculator: £40
New family car £652
Transistor radio: £6
Gramophone: £18
LP record: 6d
Washing Machine: £78
Electric Kettle: £5
Kitchen Mixer: £20
Electric Typewriter: £15
Sewing Machine: £27
Polaroid Camera: £5
Alarm Clock: £4
Child’s bike: £20
Nerf Ball: 6s
Teddy Bear: 12s
Pony: £99
New D&D game: £2 10s
Toy Sword: £2
Action Man: 12s
Toy SLR: £2 15s
Meccano Set: £1
Board game: 3s
Etch a Sketch: 6s
Space Hopper: 12s
Walkie Talkie Set: £1
Pogo Stick: 8s
Magna Doodle: £1
Comic Book: 2p
Barbie Doll: 6s
Lego Set: 12s
Train Set: 18s
Scalextric Set: £1 12s 6d
Toy soldier set: 6s
Monopoly: £1 3/2
Monthly Electricity bill: £6
Monthly Gas Bill: £4
Monthly Water Bill: £3
Monthly Steam Bill: £2
Monthly Mortgage Repayment: £24
Monthly Council Rates: £16
Monthly Telephone Rental: £2
British Railways Monthly Season Ticket: £10
Rent (1 bedroom flat): £2 10s/week
Rent (3 bedroom house): £6 4s/week
Week’s Holiday for 5 at Butlin’s: £55
Week’s Holiday for 2 in Minorca: £140
Week’s Holiday for 5 in Lyonesse: £125
Week’s Family Holiday for 5 in West Indies: £320
Year’s School Fees at Eton: £575
Year’s Minor Public School Fees: £250
Can of soft drink: 1d
Pint of Bitter: 6d
Packet of 20 cigarettes: 1s 9d
Bottle of whisky: £2 10s
Fish and Chips (1 serve): 2s
3 course Restaurant Meal: £1 12s 10d
Box of Matches: 1/2d
Diamond engagement ring: £30+
32 volume set of Encyclopedia Britannica: £90
Paperback Novel: 1s 10d
Newspaper: 1d
First class stamp: 1d
Gallon of Petrol: 5s
Cinema ticket: 3s
Local Telephone Call: 3d
Box of 20 .303" bullets: £1 1/2
Rifle: £50
Webley revolver: £36
Pair of men's socks: 1s
Underwear: 1s
Men's shirt: 2s
Woman's dress: £8
Suit: £23
Men's overcoat: £14
London to Manchester 1 way rail ticket: £1 6s second class/ £2 10s first class
London to Edinburgh 1 way: £3 10s second class/£5 6s first class
C.) Family Weekly Budget 1975
£19 4s 2d
Essentials: £2 5s 6d
Pint of Milk (3d) x 28 7s
White Sliced Loaf (6d) x 7 3s 6d
1lb Cheddar (3s) x 3 9s
1/4lb of Tea (2s) 2s
2 x 1lb of Butter (3s) 6s
2 x 3lb flour 1s
3 dozen eggs 3s
3 x 12oz Cornflakes 3s
2 x 12oz Wheatabix 4s
2lb Oats 2s
2 x 2lb sugar 4s
1lb Lard/Dripping 1s
Pantry: £2 4s
Tinned Soup: 1s
Tinned Carrots: 1s
Tinned Green Beans: 1s
Tinned Peas: 1s
Tinned Baked Beans: 1s
Tinned Stewed Steak: 3s
Tinned Salmon: 3s
Tinned Sardines: 2s
Tinned Ham: 3s
Tin of Corned Beef: 3s
Tin of Meat Spread: 3s
Tinned Peaches 3s
Tinned Pineapple 3s
Tinned Strawberries 3s
Tinned Fruit Cocktail 3s
1 tin Ovaltine 2s
1 tin Milo 2s
1 jar Branston Pickle 2s
1 bottle Lea and Perrin's Worcestershire Sauce 2s
1 bottle Halford's Leicestershire Sauce 2s
Meat: £9 18s 6d
3lb Bacon 12s
2lb pork sausages: 12s
2lb New Zealand lamb chops £1 6s
5lb beef sirloin joint: £2 12s 4d
2lb gammon steaks: 12s
2 1/2 lb beef rump steak: £2 6s 8d
2 chickens £1
2lb ham: £1
1lb suet: 6d
(5lb leg of mutton £2)
(4lb beef chuck: £1 12s 6d)
(4lb beef silverside: £1 8s)
(4lb veal joint: £2 3s 5d)
(2lb beef sirloin steak: £3)
(2lb minced beef: £1)
(2lb corned beef: £1)
Sauces/Condiments: 10s
12oz Heinz ketchup 2s
12oz Heinz salad cream 2s
16oz Jar of Honey 2s
16oz Jar of Strawberry Jam 2s
16oz Jar of Marmalade 2s
Fish: £1 2s
1lb Kippers: 2s
2lb Cod: 8s
2lb Fish Fingers: 4s
2lb Haddock: 6s
1lb Mackerel: 2s
Fruit: £1 2s 2d
2lb Apples: 6d
1lb Pears: 3d
1lb Bananas: 6d
1lb Strawberries: 6d
1lb Blueberries: 6d
1lb Plums: 6d
1lb Peaches: 6d
1lb Apricots: 9d
1lb Oranges: 2s 7d
1lb Grapes: 3s
3 pints Orange Juice: 12s
Vegetables: £1 11s
10lb potatoes: 10s
4lb cabbage: 2s
3lb carrots: 3s
2 x 2lb peas: 2s
2lb onions: 2s
2lb cauliflower: 2s
2lb turnips/swedes: 6d
2lb tomatoes: 2s
2lb cucumber: 1s 6d
2lb mushrooms: 2s
2lb runner beans: 2s
4lb lettuce: 2s
Assorted: £1 1s
Large pack of crisps 1s
8oz bar Cadbury's Dairy Milk Chocolate 1s
Cadbury's Roses Box 2s
Angel Delight 6d
Bird's Custard 10d
1 packet of Paxo stuffing 6d
1 packet chocolate biscuits 6s
1lb sweets 2d
2lb Ice Cream: 3s
1 x 2 pint bottle of Orange Squash: 3s
1x 2 pint bottle of Lemonade: 3s
Last edited by Simon Darkshade on Fri Aug 01, 2025 11:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
- jemhouston
- Posts: 5567
- Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:38 am
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Puns and I have a mixed history, I like the puns, most people don't find them punny.
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- Posts: 1541
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:55 am
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Well, I include plenty of puns, but also plenty of substance and background detail. I don’t think there is another AH, sci fi or fantasy work out there that looks at migrant demographics, the cost of children’s toys or grocery prices.
Which is a shame, as you can tell a lot from them.
Which is a shame, as you can tell a lot from them.
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- Posts: 1408
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:20 am
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Most people don't have the time or the gumption to delve that deeply into the worlds they've created. Part of the problem is that if/when they do, things start to fray.
Belushi TD
Belushi TD
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- Posts: 1541
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:55 am
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Both of those are true. There is also the tendency to get sucked into the gravity well of our own world and history, and ape our own socio-cultural, linguistic, musical and behavioural developments in works that go to great lengths to be accurate about tactical and individual level details of militaria, for example.
The stats, cultural, industrial and demographic elements help me keep track of the big issues along the way, and any engagement with them is fun and welcome.
The context of the above comes from this:
"Historically, the median gross weekly earnings for adult full time employees in Britain was:
Public Sector
Male Manual: £55.1
Male Non Manual: £66.1
Female Manual: £33.7
Female Non Manual: £41.8
Private Sector
Male Manual: £52.4
Male Non Manual: £58.8
Female Manual: £30.2
Female Non Manual: £30.9
For Dark Earth, the first thing we have to take into account is the different value of the pound. Broadly speaking, £1 in DE 1975 Britain is worth rather more, due to early 1970s inflation not cutting through the value of money like a chainsaw
- A new car cost £1500 compared to £650 on DE
- Rent was £4.30 compared to £2 10d
- A colour television was £191 compared to £100
- A pint of beer was 28p compared to 6p
Averaging things out, £1 on DE is worth twice as much as in @ 1975 Britain. For an apt comparison, then, we’d need to take that into account."
Thus, when we take into account that the wages in A above are effectively double of what we saw on Earth in 1975, and that the costs in B and C are rather smaller as a whole, the general man on the street was quite a ways better off.
The stats, cultural, industrial and demographic elements help me keep track of the big issues along the way, and any engagement with them is fun and welcome.
The context of the above comes from this:
"Historically, the median gross weekly earnings for adult full time employees in Britain was:
Public Sector
Male Manual: £55.1
Male Non Manual: £66.1
Female Manual: £33.7
Female Non Manual: £41.8
Private Sector
Male Manual: £52.4
Male Non Manual: £58.8
Female Manual: £30.2
Female Non Manual: £30.9
For Dark Earth, the first thing we have to take into account is the different value of the pound. Broadly speaking, £1 in DE 1975 Britain is worth rather more, due to early 1970s inflation not cutting through the value of money like a chainsaw
- A new car cost £1500 compared to £650 on DE
- Rent was £4.30 compared to £2 10d
- A colour television was £191 compared to £100
- A pint of beer was 28p compared to 6p
Averaging things out, £1 on DE is worth twice as much as in @ 1975 Britain. For an apt comparison, then, we’d need to take that into account."
Thus, when we take into account that the wages in A above are effectively double of what we saw on Earth in 1975, and that the costs in B and C are rather smaller as a whole, the general man on the street was quite a ways better off.
- jemhouston
- Posts: 5567
- Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:38 am
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle came up with details backgrounds on the worlds they created so they could keep things straight on the novels they wrote. I don't remember the novel, but they came up with a great line or description. It didn't fit the world it was set on, so they went back and changed the world so the line would fit.
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- Posts: 1541
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:55 am
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
In my case, it isn’t a matter of a line of description, but the different trajectory of some countries and the global balance of power. To be able to simulate that properly takes 8 centuries of change; and then showing how society, culture and such are affected by a different past, present and future.
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- Posts: 949
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:23 pm
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
S.M Stirling had some fact files at the end of 'Marching Through Georgia' explaining the Draka. It was more interesting than a chunk of the book.jemhouston wrote: ↑Fri Aug 01, 2025 4:48 pm Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle came up with details backgrounds on the worlds they created so they could keep things straight on the novels they wrote. I don't remember the novel, but they came up with a great line or description. It didn't fit the world it was set on, so they went back and changed the world so the line would fit.
Westray: That this is some sort of coincidence. Because they don't really believe in coincidences. They've heard of them. They've just never seen one.
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- Posts: 1541
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:55 am
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
I've gone through my days never reading Stirling or Harrison, and don't plan to change that. More broadly, if a factfile is more interesting than the main line tale, if there be a tale, then that is a concern.
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- Posts: 1541
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:55 am
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Sneak Preview of June:
June 7: Opening of the inaugural Cricket World Cup organised by the Imperial Cricket Conference, in England, with matches between England and India at Lords, the United States and Canada at Old Trafford, Australia and South Africa at Headingley, the West Indies and Ceylon at The Oval, New Zealand and Rhodesia at Edgbaston, Ireland and East Africa at Bramall Lane, Prydain and New Avalon at Grace Road and Newfoundland and Scotland at Trent Bridge.
June 14: Television debut of chef Keith Floyd on the BBC with Floyd on Fish , a presentation of piscine delights delivered with a unique character, interesting examinations of locations and a small handful of imbibations of the fruit of the vine.
June 15: A conference of paleo climatologists cautiously receives a new paper on the 'energy paradox' of the end of the last Ice Age, which postulated a series of bollide impacts, well before the suspected one that some think responsible for the fall of the Atlantean civilisation.
June 22: Bradford City Police discover the drained corpse of a heavy goods driver, identified as one Peter Sutcliffe, in a rubbish skip in a dingy alleyway. Upon examination of his effects, materials found in his nearby lorry and a cryptic note written in the remains of his blood, they come to the conclusion that the rumoured Night Stalker vampiress had claimed another deserved victim, the first on this side of the Atlantic. The Department of the Witchfinder General takes control of the case.
June 25: Release of Conan the Barbarian, a highly anticipated epic sword and sorcery adventure directed by John Milius and starring Arnold Schwarzenegger as the eponymous barbarian hero, Bruce Lee as his bold companion Subotai, Reb Brown as Fafnir, Sandahl Bergmann as the beautiful Valeria, Lynda Carter as Red Sonja, Brian Blessed as Crom/Kull, Tomasz Wiseau as the mysterious sorcerer Thoth-Amon, Max von Sydow as King Osric, Chuck Norris as Wal-Kar the Ranger, Geoffrey Bayldon as Wotan the Wanderer and Sean Connery as the wicked Thulsa Doom. The 179 minute film, shot in Spain, France, Sweden, Egypt and Rhodesia, has a stirring score by young composer Basil Poledouris and an array of lavish special effects and set piece battles with thousands of extras. Immediate reactions are extremely positive, with The New York Times questioning how, after Overlord and Conan, another film released this year could top them for spectacle; upon reading the review, young director George Lucas is heard to say to his lunch companion “We’ll see.”
June 26: Prime Minister Stanley Barton, in an interview with Teatime with Trecandrius on the BBC, indicates that he is in full support of the principle of equal pay for equal work for men and women, and for the practical support of this principle through legislation and a range of new pay awards negotiated between trade unions and business. This represents a significant evolution in the Prime Minister's position, with some commentators ascribing it to the increasing number of young female voters, whilst others accept his argument that it was necessary for fairness in a changing society.
June 30: Delivery of the first 'British Soldier Care Packages' to troops deployed overseas and in the Empire, with the idea coming from a letter from a primary school class in Surrey. Schools across Britain will progressively prepare and post hundreds per month, providing a small modicum of home comforts, foodstuffs, tobacco, socks, letters and sweets for soldiers deployed away from home around the world, and joining similar packages provided by the Women's Institute, Royal British Legion, the Church of England, the Hospitallers, the Crown Estate and Britain's richest man, Sir Charles Ratcliffe.
June 7: Opening of the inaugural Cricket World Cup organised by the Imperial Cricket Conference, in England, with matches between England and India at Lords, the United States and Canada at Old Trafford, Australia and South Africa at Headingley, the West Indies and Ceylon at The Oval, New Zealand and Rhodesia at Edgbaston, Ireland and East Africa at Bramall Lane, Prydain and New Avalon at Grace Road and Newfoundland and Scotland at Trent Bridge.
June 14: Television debut of chef Keith Floyd on the BBC with Floyd on Fish , a presentation of piscine delights delivered with a unique character, interesting examinations of locations and a small handful of imbibations of the fruit of the vine.
June 15: A conference of paleo climatologists cautiously receives a new paper on the 'energy paradox' of the end of the last Ice Age, which postulated a series of bollide impacts, well before the suspected one that some think responsible for the fall of the Atlantean civilisation.
June 22: Bradford City Police discover the drained corpse of a heavy goods driver, identified as one Peter Sutcliffe, in a rubbish skip in a dingy alleyway. Upon examination of his effects, materials found in his nearby lorry and a cryptic note written in the remains of his blood, they come to the conclusion that the rumoured Night Stalker vampiress had claimed another deserved victim, the first on this side of the Atlantic. The Department of the Witchfinder General takes control of the case.
June 25: Release of Conan the Barbarian, a highly anticipated epic sword and sorcery adventure directed by John Milius and starring Arnold Schwarzenegger as the eponymous barbarian hero, Bruce Lee as his bold companion Subotai, Reb Brown as Fafnir, Sandahl Bergmann as the beautiful Valeria, Lynda Carter as Red Sonja, Brian Blessed as Crom/Kull, Tomasz Wiseau as the mysterious sorcerer Thoth-Amon, Max von Sydow as King Osric, Chuck Norris as Wal-Kar the Ranger, Geoffrey Bayldon as Wotan the Wanderer and Sean Connery as the wicked Thulsa Doom. The 179 minute film, shot in Spain, France, Sweden, Egypt and Rhodesia, has a stirring score by young composer Basil Poledouris and an array of lavish special effects and set piece battles with thousands of extras. Immediate reactions are extremely positive, with The New York Times questioning how, after Overlord and Conan, another film released this year could top them for spectacle; upon reading the review, young director George Lucas is heard to say to his lunch companion “We’ll see.”
June 26: Prime Minister Stanley Barton, in an interview with Teatime with Trecandrius on the BBC, indicates that he is in full support of the principle of equal pay for equal work for men and women, and for the practical support of this principle through legislation and a range of new pay awards negotiated between trade unions and business. This represents a significant evolution in the Prime Minister's position, with some commentators ascribing it to the increasing number of young female voters, whilst others accept his argument that it was necessary for fairness in a changing society.
June 30: Delivery of the first 'British Soldier Care Packages' to troops deployed overseas and in the Empire, with the idea coming from a letter from a primary school class in Surrey. Schools across Britain will progressively prepare and post hundreds per month, providing a small modicum of home comforts, foodstuffs, tobacco, socks, letters and sweets for soldiers deployed away from home around the world, and joining similar packages provided by the Women's Institute, Royal British Legion, the Church of England, the Hospitallers, the Crown Estate and Britain's richest man, Sir Charles Ratcliffe.
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Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
The phrase "oh dear. How sad. Never mind" comes to mind here. Sounds like he targeted the wrong woman. The Night Stalker vampiress has probably saved something like 13 lives.June 22: Bradford City Police discover the drained corpse of a heavy goods driver, identified as one Peter Sutcliffe
“Frankly, I had enjoyed the war… and why do people want peace if the war is so much fun?” - Lieutenant General Sir Adrian Carton de Wiart
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Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
A few more than that; her first suspected victim was one Theodore Bundy.
From a few pages back in April (our April of 2025, that is) :
“A little aside:
In respect to the vampiress who ‘bought Peter Sutcliffe’s career to an end before it could start’, it just so happens that she is the same one who killed Ted Bundy in the USA a few years before.
I present to you the world’s first undead pseudo-vigilante serial serial-killer killer; that she nabbed both before they started their ‘careers’ in earnest points more to the MO and prey of both wicked men. The number of serial killers, at least those who went after women, who picked on prostitutes is considerable.
I can definitely say that she will be trying to trawl for others, albeit the not entirely innocent types who try to brutalise or kill the seemingly very young lady of the evening with an exotic accent. Her backstory is yet another story hook planted so it can grow big and strong to support a quirky yarn in the fullness of time; her origins come from Gilles des Rais…
There is even a hint of a scintilla of a suggestion that in some cases, there might be some sort of unofficial government agent from a very secret agency clandestinely giving her tips of sorts…”
“I don’t think there is any basis to feel sorry for them. Whilst they didn’t get to kick off their murderous rampages here, they ran into something very nasty in its own right not whilst out picking daisies, but whilst hunting for victims.
I’m not trying to craft anything particularly deep in these particular events, or trying ‘gotcha’ events on historical monsters but trying to put in place the bones of a story whilst also playing with the concept of there being predators that prey on other predators.
(In the early 1990s, there was a Swedish miniseries called ‘Fiendens fiende’ or ‘Enemy of the Enemy’ about spy stuff and murderers and the intrepid deeds of Jan Guillou’s Swedish action man/spy Carl Hamilton. As well as being an alright story, the alliteration did give me a little idea about ‘fiends’ preying upon ‘fiends’. I’ve always meant to play around with that concept and a joke around that title at some point.)
As well as all that, there are a few interesting drivers that make for a much shorter and thankfully less bloody heyday of the serial killer when compared to the historical 1970s.”
- In general, a creature that hunts would-be serial killers presents both an interesting story hook and a means that someone is using to ensure that their careers never take off.
- As a female, though, ‘she’ might have some issues picking up a particular Scottish civil servant in North London…
From a few pages back in April (our April of 2025, that is) :
“A little aside:
In respect to the vampiress who ‘bought Peter Sutcliffe’s career to an end before it could start’, it just so happens that she is the same one who killed Ted Bundy in the USA a few years before.
I present to you the world’s first undead pseudo-vigilante serial serial-killer killer; that she nabbed both before they started their ‘careers’ in earnest points more to the MO and prey of both wicked men. The number of serial killers, at least those who went after women, who picked on prostitutes is considerable.
I can definitely say that she will be trying to trawl for others, albeit the not entirely innocent types who try to brutalise or kill the seemingly very young lady of the evening with an exotic accent. Her backstory is yet another story hook planted so it can grow big and strong to support a quirky yarn in the fullness of time; her origins come from Gilles des Rais…
There is even a hint of a scintilla of a suggestion that in some cases, there might be some sort of unofficial government agent from a very secret agency clandestinely giving her tips of sorts…”
“I don’t think there is any basis to feel sorry for them. Whilst they didn’t get to kick off their murderous rampages here, they ran into something very nasty in its own right not whilst out picking daisies, but whilst hunting for victims.
I’m not trying to craft anything particularly deep in these particular events, or trying ‘gotcha’ events on historical monsters but trying to put in place the bones of a story whilst also playing with the concept of there being predators that prey on other predators.
(In the early 1990s, there was a Swedish miniseries called ‘Fiendens fiende’ or ‘Enemy of the Enemy’ about spy stuff and murderers and the intrepid deeds of Jan Guillou’s Swedish action man/spy Carl Hamilton. As well as being an alright story, the alliteration did give me a little idea about ‘fiends’ preying upon ‘fiends’. I’ve always meant to play around with that concept and a joke around that title at some point.)
As well as all that, there are a few interesting drivers that make for a much shorter and thankfully less bloody heyday of the serial killer when compared to the historical 1970s.”
- In general, a creature that hunts would-be serial killers presents both an interesting story hook and a means that someone is using to ensure that their careers never take off.
- As a female, though, ‘she’ might have some issues picking up a particular Scottish civil servant in North London…
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Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
That Conan the Barbarian.... Can you somehow channel that into a DVD for me???? 

Westray: That this is some sort of coincidence. Because they don't really believe in coincidences. They've heard of them. They've just never seen one.
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Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Give AI an extra year or so, and a trailer could be generated to an even better standard than today; a full film might take a little longer.
I do mean to put together an updated list of films.
I do mean to put together an updated list of films.
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Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
On the somewhat dark topic of British serial killers, a little list:
Sweeney Todd: The 'Demon Barber of Fleet Street' was arrested and hanged in 1827 for the murders of at least 8 people, both customers and street Arabs.
William Burke and William Hare: Convicted of 16 murders, body snatching and wickedness. Burned at the stake in Edinburgh in 1828.
Mary Ann Cotton: Responsible for the poisoning murders of 21 family members and friends with arsenic. Hanged in 1873.
Seweryn Kłosowski/George Chapman: 'Jack the Ripper'. Arrested by Inspector Frederick Abberline and DI Edmund Reid, acting in conjunction with Sherlock Holmes. Hanged in 1889.
Thomas Cream: 'The Lambeth Poisoner' killed at least 6 people in England alone. Hanged in 1892.
Amelia Dyer: 'The Ogress of Reading', baby farmer and killer of at least 6 infants. Hanged in 1896.
Amelia Sacks and Annie Walters: 'The Finchley Baby Farmers'. Hanged in 1903 for the murder of 20 infants.
Gordon Cummins: 'The Blackout Ripper'. An RAF aircraftman who killed 4 in a spree in February 1942, and hanged in June.
William Urdmer, 13th Lord Urdmer: Secretly tried and convicted for the 'House of Hell' case in May 1947 and burned at the stake an hour later. The case was classified with an X Notice
John Haigh: 'The Acid Bath Murderer', killed 6 people. Hanged in 1949.
John Christie: 'The Rillington Place Strangler' murdered Ruth Fuerst (1943), Muriel Eady (1944) and Beryl and Geraldine Evans (1949). Apprehended with the aid of brand new forensic sorcery and a painstaking search of the house and garden at 10 Rillington Place according to the 'Holmes Principles'. His neighbour, Timothy Evans, was originally arrested on suspicion of his wife and child's murder, but was exonerated before being charged. Christe was hanged on March 9th 1950.
John Bodkin Adams: Convicted of the death of at least one patient and hanged in April 1957, some police suspect he was responsible for the deaths of dozens of others between 1946 and 1956.
Torith Goldhair: 'Jack the Stripper'. Half elven petty criminal arrested in 1965 for the murders of six ladies of the evening. Hanged 1965.
Murderers not fulfilling the general threshold definition of 'serial killer':
- Ian Brady and Myra Hindley (1 victim in 1963; hanged in 1964)
- Frederick West (killed Anne McFall in 1967 and hanged on November 23rd of that year)
- David Burgess (hanged for the murders of two girls in 1967 in Berkshire; suspected of involvement in a death in 1963)
Deceased before a murderous career
- Peter Sutcliffe
- Dennis Nilsen (abducted and killed in a botched robbery in Aden in 1967 whilst serving in the Army)
Other
- Rosemary Letts (never meets Fred West and married a different man, in 1970, and subsequently migrates to Kenya in 1974)
Sweeney Todd: The 'Demon Barber of Fleet Street' was arrested and hanged in 1827 for the murders of at least 8 people, both customers and street Arabs.
William Burke and William Hare: Convicted of 16 murders, body snatching and wickedness. Burned at the stake in Edinburgh in 1828.
Mary Ann Cotton: Responsible for the poisoning murders of 21 family members and friends with arsenic. Hanged in 1873.
Seweryn Kłosowski/George Chapman: 'Jack the Ripper'. Arrested by Inspector Frederick Abberline and DI Edmund Reid, acting in conjunction with Sherlock Holmes. Hanged in 1889.
Thomas Cream: 'The Lambeth Poisoner' killed at least 6 people in England alone. Hanged in 1892.
Amelia Dyer: 'The Ogress of Reading', baby farmer and killer of at least 6 infants. Hanged in 1896.
Amelia Sacks and Annie Walters: 'The Finchley Baby Farmers'. Hanged in 1903 for the murder of 20 infants.
Gordon Cummins: 'The Blackout Ripper'. An RAF aircraftman who killed 4 in a spree in February 1942, and hanged in June.
William Urdmer, 13th Lord Urdmer: Secretly tried and convicted for the 'House of Hell' case in May 1947 and burned at the stake an hour later. The case was classified with an X Notice
John Haigh: 'The Acid Bath Murderer', killed 6 people. Hanged in 1949.
John Christie: 'The Rillington Place Strangler' murdered Ruth Fuerst (1943), Muriel Eady (1944) and Beryl and Geraldine Evans (1949). Apprehended with the aid of brand new forensic sorcery and a painstaking search of the house and garden at 10 Rillington Place according to the 'Holmes Principles'. His neighbour, Timothy Evans, was originally arrested on suspicion of his wife and child's murder, but was exonerated before being charged. Christe was hanged on March 9th 1950.
John Bodkin Adams: Convicted of the death of at least one patient and hanged in April 1957, some police suspect he was responsible for the deaths of dozens of others between 1946 and 1956.
Torith Goldhair: 'Jack the Stripper'. Half elven petty criminal arrested in 1965 for the murders of six ladies of the evening. Hanged 1965.
Murderers not fulfilling the general threshold definition of 'serial killer':
- Ian Brady and Myra Hindley (1 victim in 1963; hanged in 1964)
- Frederick West (killed Anne McFall in 1967 and hanged on November 23rd of that year)
- David Burgess (hanged for the murders of two girls in 1967 in Berkshire; suspected of involvement in a death in 1963)
Deceased before a murderous career
- Peter Sutcliffe
- Dennis Nilsen (abducted and killed in a botched robbery in Aden in 1967 whilst serving in the Army)
Other
- Rosemary Letts (never meets Fred West and married a different man, in 1970, and subsequently migrates to Kenya in 1974)