Dark Earth Timeline Discussion

[jemhouston]

Point of order, Stoner's original weapon in the family was the AR-10 in 7.62 x 51mm NATO.

[Simon Darkshade]

I know. I simply prefer the look of the AR16 for aesthetic reasons, and any reference to it and the M14 in my previous post was purely in that context.

In this instance, I don’t judge a girl by her performance, attributes or name, just on how she looks.

[Simon Darkshade]

Some other general musings:
- McDonalds is still under the control of the McDonald brothers as compared to Ray Kroc
- Pet ownership rates for both dogs and cats are notably higher in Britain in particular, with 1976 in @ seeing a dog population of 6 million for a human population of 56 million, or 10.7%. On Dark Earth, it is 42 million dogs: 162 million human beans, along with 54 million cats
- This in turn reflects a country where there are more people living in houses compared to flats, and where garden/yard sizes would be noticeably larger to observers familiar with our 1970s
- Blackouts, whilst they may occur due to accidents and regional interruptions as they do now, have not occurred due to power supply issues, strikes and associated problems. This has a lot of flow on cultural consequences, as well as the positive economic effects
- Strikes and industrial action are far, far less common, with the type of regulations and controls discussed in ‘In Place of Strife’ having been put in place multiple decades ago; trade unions don’t lack power, and are very close to the Barton Government, but the relationship isn’t one of control
- In November 1974, Jim Callaghan said "Our place in the world is shrinking: our economic comparisons grow worse, long-term political influence depends on economic strength - and that is running out. If I were a young man, I should emigrate." None of that is the case here
- Across the Atlantic, there hasn’t been the interregnum of LBJ and Nixon between Kennedy and Reagan, and more significantly what came with that: social disorder, decline of social cohesion, divisive war, scandal, and the blow to national morale that was Watergate
- Those very significant degrees of divergence not only make most of the political notes in the historical symphony of Earth irrelevant, but also so very much of the culture and social developments that came with them
- As a general rule, there is likely to be greater divergence as we move forward; this makes it a bit more difficult to write, as well as having a bit of a general yen for the mid 1970s cultural moment in terms of television, books and other areas
- As a further generalisation, diets and food quality are a fair bit better, as there hasn’t yet been a move to ultra-processed foods, snacking and ‘grazing’ habits, better quality convenience foods, better quality meat, vegetables and fruit, and slightly less added sugar and salt. Several 1970s popular features, such as dinner parties, fondue, prawn cocktails, Black Forest cake, trifle and foods on a stick, still occur here, as their popularity was more a factor of fashion than other drivers
- Were you to visit, you’d likely notice a fair bit more meat and eggs on the menu at each major meal, as well as more milk and cheese. White bread isn’t quite as processed and comparatively lacking in nutritive value, whilst there is also a range of brown and black breads, along with the ‘golden bread’ of Lyonesse, whose name comes from the particular colour of wheat and the recipe, which is rich and reminiscent of a brioche
- Factories, large offices/companies, hospitals and the like all have their own canteens/kitchens, which often acquire base foods from the Ministry of Food
- School milk and orange juice is still provided to all British primary schoolboys and girls, as the cost is really quite trifling for the positive impacts on health; both beverages are kept palatable and chilled
- Foreign holidays are increasingly popular, but they usually mean Malta, Gibraltar, Cyprus, Minorca and the Ionian Islands in Europe, or the West Indies, Bermuda and the Bahamas for the next option up
- The teenager is not a social strata in either the USA or Britain
- There has not been a noticeable decline in either the general economy or the accompanying society and community of the North of England, Wales, Scotland and the Midlands in Britain, or the ‘Rust Belt’ in the USA. Whilst foreign competition is increasing, the lower price of energy, greater availability of resources, new technologies such as robotics and competitively rising productivity has offset that to date. The starship gigs projects will further contribute to this
- The unemployment levels of the 1973 recession were shocking to both the public and authorities at the time, even as they did not approach the peaks of our 1970s, but has lead to something of a determination to avoid such peaks again. There has been thought that those type of levels were the stuff of the Great Depression and had been thoroughly put to bed

[Rocket J Squrriel]

Foods on a stick?

Odin knows what they would be serving at this world's Minnesota State Fair.

Links are a bit broken but this gives you an idea how interesting they can be. https://discoverthecities.com/foods-on- ... tate-fair/

[jemhouston]

HLSR Food https://www.houstoniamag.com/eat-and-dr ... food-guide


Highlights Fried Red Velvet Twinkie & Cotton Candy Bacon on a Stick,

[Simon Darkshade]

The 1970s saw fairly simple foodstuffs presented on sticks insofar as dinner parties were concerned, such as cheese + pineapple + a cocktail onion, or sausage and cheese, or simply cheese and pickled onion. Simple, yet complementary, and providing a nice little appetiser before the new middle class fad of dinner parties.

The modern American monstrosities are against both man and God, and belong in Foodstuff Gehenna, banished by a Pulsa diNura delivered by James Beard and Julia Child.

American culinary history is one of my favourite topics, so that I can provide some level of insight into what would be on offer at various state fairs in the mid 1970s in Dark Earth, based on historical trends, books and reports:

There would be corndogs, beef, pork and chicken 'kabobs' and 'cotton candy' on sticks, candy apples, and the usual mid 20th century array of hamburgers, hot dogs, barbecued meats and fried chicken, plus popcorn, ice cream, french fries, corn on the cob, stew, country sausage, German sausage, Polish sausage and a variety of sandwiches. The 'different' elements would be baked potatoes, various permutations of schnitzel sandwiches, lamb and mutton chops and meatballs.

What wouldn't be present is quite the same 'over the top' approach as seen in the 21st century, not as much overt sugariness in unsuited foods and quite the array of various ethnic foodstuffs. Pizza is yet to really make the breakthrough into mainstream American cuisine, whilst American-Chinese food and restaurants are even more niche; the latter being a result of the more protracted Korean War in one respect.

[Simon Darkshade]

1975 Statistics

1975/76 Largest GDPs
1.) USA: $14,772,227,260,191 (+ 6.97%)
2.) USSR: $7,032,464,761,252 (+ 8.11%)
3.) Japan: $6,621,135,581,041 (+ 12.37%)
4.) Germany: $6,504,775,765,953 (+ 9.25%)
5.) Britain: $6,175,048,927,011 (+ 5.32%)
6.) France: $3,224,078,376,606 (+ 11.14%)
7.) Canada: $2,741,095,972,888 (+ 8.45%)
8.) India: $2,696,626,026,869 (+ 3.69%)
9.) China: $2,447,402,519,296 (- 0.6%)
10.) Italy: $2,163,482,966,619 (+ 9.65%)
11.) Brazil: $1,822,407,073,251 (+ 10.79%)
12.) Austria-Hungary: $1,728,424,614,001 (+ 6.52%)
13.) Benelux: $1,417,877,243,090 (+ 5.97%)
14.) Spain: $1,279,065,231,426 (+ 5.28%)
15.) Australia: $1,234,980,875,750 (+ 8.27%)
16.) Argentina: $1,205,254,854,089 (+ 9.96%)
17.) Mexico: $1,129,975,813,794 (+ 4.86%)
18.) Sweden: $855,808,157,113 (+ 3.92%)
19.) South Africa: $860,037,235,902 (+ 6.37%)
20.) Turkey: $846,380,787,678 (+ 8.81%)

1975/76 Largest Populations
1.) China: 1,254,235,854
2.) India: 796,347,993
3.) Soviet Union: 424,547,076
4.) USA: 389,264,475
5.) Indonesia: 296,110,468
6.) Japan: 284,383,476
7.) Germany: 210,365,097
8.) Brazil: 209,296,555
9.) Mexico: 169,930,760
10.) Britain: 162,954,887*
11.) France: 158,012,967
12.) Austria-Hungary: 140,921,356

1975/76 Share of World Industrial Output
1.) USA: 21.6%
2.) Japan: 14.4%
3.) Germany: 11.8%
4.) Soviet Union: 11.4%
5.) Britain: 8%
6.) China: 5.9%
7.) India 5.2%
8.) France: 5%
9.) Canada: 4.2%
10.) Italy: 2.7%
11.) Austria-Hungary: 2.6%

1975/76 Defence Spending
1.) USA: $1,506,767,180,539 (10.2%)
2.) Soviet Union: $1,125,194,361,800 (16%)
3.) Britain: $605,154,794,553/£33,619,710,809 (9.8%)
4.) Germany: $507,372,509,744 (7.8%)
5.) Japan: $489,964,032,997 (7.4%)
5.) China: $318,162,327,508 (13%)
6.) France: $309,511,524,154 (9.6%)
7.) Canada: $238,475,349,641 (8.7%)
8.) India: $221,123,334,203 (8.2%)
9.) Italy: $170,915,154,363 (7.9%)
10.) Austria-Hungary: $159,015,064,488 (9.2%)
11.) Brazil: $112,989,238,542 (6.2%)

1975 Steel Production (millions of tons)
1.) Japan 271
2.) USA 256
3.) USSR 234
4.) Germany 145
5.) Britain: 108
6.) China: 100
7.) India 90
8.) AH: 81
9.) Poland 78
10.) France 69
11.) Canada 64

1975 Coal Production (millions of tons)
1.) USSR: 773
2.) USA: 765
3.) China: 660
4.) Germany: 629
5.) Britain: 612
6.) Poland: 600
7.) India: 523
8.) Austria-Hungary: 490
9.) France: 334
10.) Australia: 310
11.) South Africa: 284

1975 Oil Production (Thousands of bbl/day)
1.) USA: 19,624
2.) Arabia: 18,025
3.) USSR: 15,982
4.) Persia: 9987
5.) Iraq: 8139
6.) Canada: 5268
7.) Trucial States: 5257
8.) Kuwait: 4062
9.) Venezuela: 3892
10.) Britain 3824
11.) Mexico: 3418

1975 Wheat Production (millions of tons)
1.) USA: 200
2.) USSR: 138
3.) India: 115
4.) Canada: 112
5.) China: 110
6.) Australia: 87
7.) Argentina: 80
8.) France: 70
9.) Austria-Hungary: 67
10.) Germany: 65
11.) Britain: 64
12.) Italy: 49
13.) Turkey: 45
14.) Spain: 40
15.) Poland: 35

1975 Barley Production (millions of tons)
1.) USSR: 80.4
2.) Australia: 36.9
3.) Canada: 32.3
4.) Germany: 29.5
5.) France: 24.8
6.) Britain: 21.9
7.) Spain: 18.6
8.) Argentina: 17.9
9.) USA: 15.2
10.) Turkey: 12.6
11.) Poland: 11.8
12.) Austria-Hungary: 10.3

1975 Potato Production (millions of tons)
1.) USSR: 156
2.) India: 90
3.) China: 81
4.) USA: 67
5.) Germany: 54
6.) Canada: 49
7.) France: 45
8.) Britain: 44
9.) Poland: 42
10.) Peru: 32
12.) Turkey: 29
12.) Netherlands: 28

1975 Corn Production (millions of tons)
1.) USA: 302
2.) USSR: 123
3.) Brazil: 101
4.) China: 91
5.) Argentina: 85
6.) Canada: 74
7.) India: 60
8.) Mexico: 54
9.) Indonesia: 38
10.) Romania: 33
11.) France: 30
12.) Australia: 28

1975 Automobile Production
1.) Japan: 15,623,468
2.) USA: 14,291,366
3.) Germany: 9,032,025
4.) Britain: 5,962,894
5.) France: 5,037,049
6.) Italy: 4,522,148
7.) Canada: 4,246,459
8.) Austria-Hungary: 3,894,250
9.) USSR: 3,697,222
10.) Mexico: 3,041,356
11.) Spain: 2,619,347

1975 Merchant Shipbuilding
1.) Japan: 50,932,625 tons
2.) Britain: 29,455,066 tons
3.) USA: 23,677,005 tons
4.) Korea: 8,961,357 tons
5.) Germany: 4,123,496 tons
6.) France: 2,348,060 tons
7.) Italy: 2,044,498 tons
8.) Canada: 1,363,887 tons
9.) USSR: 1,265,253 tons
10.) Sweden: 1,118,110 tons
11.) Poland: 1,087,492 tons

1975 Aircraft Production
1.) USSR: 7264
2.) USA: 6438
3.) Britain: 3962
4.) China: 3013
5.) Germany: 1546
6.) France: 1291
7.) Japan: 1111
8.) India: 1034
9.) Canada: 1012
10.) Italy: 703
11.) Austria-Hungary: 615

1975 Tank Production
1.) USSR: 13,248
2.) USA: 7250
3.) China: 4287
4.) Britain: 3993
5.) Germany: 2568
6.) France: 1819
7.) Italy: 1244
8.) Japan: 1240
9.) India: 1204
10.) Canada: 1156
11.) Austria-Hungary: 1040

[Simon Darkshade]

1975 Demographic Musings

1975 British Immigrant Population:
Polish 210,000
West Indian: 145,000
Indian: 102,000
American: 72,000
Chinese: 32,000
French: 30,000
German: 26,000
Scandinavian: 22,000
Austro-Hungarian: 19,000
Greek: 18,000
Italian: 16,000
African: 15,000
Spaniards: 12,000
British Cypriots: 10,000
Egyptians: 9000
Arabs: 8000
Yugoslavs: 6000
Dutch: 5000
Malays: 5000
Japanese: 4000
Belgians: 3000
Ceylonese: 3000
Bulgars: 1000
Other: 10,000'

There is a notable degree of demographic difference across the board. The Black, African and Caribbean population was historically ~ 20,000 in 1951, 191,600 in 1961, 304,000 in 1971 and 707,675 in 1981; the Indian population was ~ 31,000 in 1951, 100,000 in 1961, 494,000 in 1971 and 1,282,062 in 1981; and the Chinese population ~ 15,000 in 1951, 38,750 in 1961 and ~ 100,000 in 1971.

The broadly analogous census to DE 1975 is the 1961 census, reflecting the markedly lower rates of immigration in the period 1945-1975, due to several reasons, such as the larger British population, the better economic and social/peace circumstances of the Caribbean and the Sub Continent, different nationality laws in the absence of the 1948 Act and subsequent iterations (in turn flowing from a lack of the triggers for that Act in the form of Irish affairs, the Canadian Citizenship Act and the broader drivers from the Statute of Westminster towards Dominion drift).

This does not mean that 1981 will look like the demographic make up of 1971, as there has been a fair bit of difference in the meantime, such as the comparative drying up during the 1973 Recession and its aftermath, driven by hyper-concerned trade unions; it should also be noted that, due to the integration of Malta and Singapore into the United Kingdom proper, movement of peoples from there doesn't show up in the same sense.

As percentages of the broader population, they sit at 0.09% for the West Indians, 0.06% for the Indians (given the unified status of India, such a description is perhaps more appropriate than the @ label of 'Asian') and 0.02% for the Chinese, for a DE total of 0.14%, compared to 0.55%, 0.89% and 0.18% for a total of 1.62%. The percentage of the population of those three groups of non-white immigrants is therefore very close to the @ 1951 level of 0.16%, and well behind the 1961 mark of 0.62%.

As the Baby Boom now concludes, migration from Britain continues, and as immigrants have children and families, that percentage is likely to grow, absent major policy changes, World Wars and the like.

[Belushi TD]

Did I miss a potato disease in the US? It seems odd to me that the US, with its agricultural might, doesn't crack the top 10 in potatos. Barley production being lower tier I understand, but potatos? Is there a cultural difference that I missed somewhere?

Thanks
Belushi TD

[Simon Darkshade]

You know, what I think happened is that the American figure got pasted over back in 1973 when I was trying to add in fresh detail, so that the USA disappeared for two years when it shouldn't have.

With a few quick clicks, I think that will be fixed quicker than you can say 'Idaho Russet'.

[Belushi TD]

You know, you could easily have gotten away with blaming it on a magic disease by some big bad evil dude, and had Reverend Presley solve the issue in his inimitable style.

Thankyouverymuch.....

However, thanks for the fix. It looks far more internally consistent now.

Belushi TD

[Simon Darkshade]

I could certainly have done that, and just think of the headlines "REVEREND PRESLEY DEFEATS THE EVIL DR. FRENCH AND SAVES NATION'S SPUDS! FEDS SAY FRENCH WILL SURELY FRY!"

However bemusing that might be, the flow on effects from such a central part of not just the American diet, but the American agricultural and food economy in general, would be enough to blight quite a portion of a year. I'd then get caught up in such a whirlpool of potato related puns that I'd likely go starch raving mad.

As matter stand, that does give a new option for one of Reverend Elvis's future adventures, along with his faithful posse (including James Hendrix) ; Lucky, his wise cracking allosauroid partner; his supersonic jet biplane; and Justice, his enchanted laser sword. There is scope to throw in The Beatles and James Bond for good measure, and make it an Anglo-American quest to foil SPECTRE's latest attempt to wreak havoc upon the Free World's food supply.

From a writing point of view, such comparative levity, as well as all the derring-do, would make sense in a darker period, where it would balance out the daily horror of an ongoing war or other crises. To slip it into the sunnier middle of the 1970s - and I'm using that imagery of sunlight to evoke the thematic links with the gold-hued memories of Camelot and Reagan's 'Morning in America - might be a bit more difficult, as too much saccharine can be bad for you. Just ask our Elvis.

So I'll file it away for the moment, and try and weave in some story threads that give a sense of disquiet behind the outwardly confident, positive and buoyant mood of the times. There needs to be some acidic element to cut the sweetness so it doesn't become cloying and overwhelming.

When we look at the films, television and books of the 1970s, there is a significant tendency towards shadows, shades of grey, corruption, loss of faith and innocence, fallen idols, lost trust, crime, decay and griminess. This isn't to say that everything was like that, but it was a very noticeable feature which to some extent matched the political scandals such as Watergate and the shock of the loss in Vietnam, among half a hundred other factors. In Britain, there was a similar malaise across swathes of the cultural landscape, albeit without the same proximate triggers. Creating the sense of something not just different, but near diametrically opposite - that is an interesting challenge that I'm enjoying.

[Simon Darkshade]

A little sneak preview of May:

May 2: The National School Lunch and Defense Program, first implemented in 1946 under President Truman and expanded in the 1960s under President Kennedy, begins implementing the recommendations of the 1974 Tarrare-Gloop Report, which called for the provision of meals including two servings of fruits, one each of green, salad and starchy vegetables, one of bread or cereals, a large portion of a meat dish, and a child-sized carton of milk. President Reagan had previously commented approvingly of the proposals when speaking to schoolchildren in Springfield, Indiana, stating "We want all of you boys and girls to grow up big and strong, so America can continue to do great things and defeat the communists."

May 12: A Red Navy flotilla consisting of four Samarkand class destroyers, the guided missile cruisers Aleksandr Suvorov and Tretij Internacional and the battlecruiser Kursk arrives in Boston, the first Soviet ships to enter an American port since the Second World War; the occasion of their visit is part of celebrations to mark the thirtieth anniversary of the end of that conflict in Europe, with a USN force of a similar size arriving in Leningrad later in the day. Naval officers of both superpowers are evidently much moved by the historical nature of the occasion, taking copious photographs of the ships in question, no doubt to serve as personal momentos.

May 17: Former U.S. Secretary of Magic, Harry Houdini, 101, disappears from his hospital bed in Roosevelt Hospital, New York City, leaving nurses and doctors perplexed, given that the doors were closed and the windows securely locked. Incidentally, relatives of the retired British author Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, 115, are urgently summoned by telephone and telegram to his residence at Windlesham Manor in Crowborough, Sussex on unspecified business.

May 22: The expansion of the Grangemouth Oil Refinery to the largest in Europe is completed, with the complex capable of processing 525,000 barrels a day, or almost double of its previous capacity; the expensive expansion is seen as justified by the increasing production coming from the North Sea. The other twenty six operational refineries around Britain (Milford Haven, Fawley, Isle of Grain, Coryton, Harwich, Humber, Heysham, Teesside, Lindsay, Llandarcy, Stanlow, Pembroke, Canvey Island, Shell Haven, Londonderry, Cork, Greenock, Aberdeen, Sunderland, Hartlepool, King's Lynn, Westgate, Weymouth, Exmouth, Weston-super-Mare, and Avonmouth) are scheduled to be joined by new facilities at Aberstywyth, Poole, Blyth, Invergordon and Sutton in the next five years.

[jemhouston]

I'm sure photos were taken below the waterline to make sure no invasive species tagged along with the ships

[Simon Darkshade]

Oh, I can guarantee that the Society for the Preservation of Inshore Maritime Species (a subsidiary of the well known charity Christians in Action) would take such actions. They'd even be very careful to not disturb the molluscs by doing so in a loud or public manner, bless their little cotton socks.

They have such a care for the mussels of Boston Harbor.

[Belushi TD]

Oh, I can guarantee that the Society for the Preservation of Inshore Maritime Species (a subsidiary of the well known charity Christians in Action) would take such actions. They'd even be very careful to not disturb the molluscs by doing so in a loud or public manner, bless their little cotton socks.

They have such a care for the mussels of Boston Harbor.

I see what you did there.....

Belushi TD

[Simon Darkshade]

Christians in Action do get around a lot.

[jemhouston]

Christians in Action do get around a lot.

Yes they do, but you you need to include Culinary Institute of America since it's easier to travel when you're well feed.

[Simon Darkshade]

The only issue with that is the the Culinary Institute of America is a real culinary school with copious famed graduates: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culin ... of_America

I already have plans for it, separate to any jokes about Christians in Action.

[Belushi TD]

The only issue with that is the the Culinary Institute of America is a real culinary school with copious famed graduates: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culin ... of_America

I already have plans for it, separate to any jokes about Christians in Action.

OOC my daughter is attending Culinary Institute. She's doing her externship now, and will get her associates this coming April. Should you ever wish to set something there, let me know, and I'll get her to help with descriptions of various things. Buildings, paths, how the students actually go around, that sort of thing.

Belushi TD