Art & Image Thread

[Belushi TD]

I recently read an EPW interrogation of a PVO pilot--he got snagged by a First Nations resistance group in Northern British Columbia, and got ratlined to Canadian Forces when they realized that he was a regimental CO. Apparently, nobody had realized that they were going to need air defense until the recon units were running out of gas just short of the 49th Parallel. And their deployment was an absolute fiasco. They ended up having to get stuff overland from Alaska. Half the time the truck convoys just disappeared, they never knew what happened. In at least one incident, a bear are the convoy commander.

Who was going to need air defense? There's a lot more to this story that I want to hear!

Belushi TD

The Northern Theater commander figured that the war would be over before the capitalist scum could threaten his rear with airstrikes, so no PVO units of any kind (SAM or interceptor regiments) were in the initial TPFDL. His successor made them a priority after the Northern Theater HQ got hit by an ARC LIGHT strike in November 1985, and completely wrecked the TPFDL until summer of 1986. One historian thinks that if ADVENT CROWN had gone into Canada, that would have been that for the Northern Theater.

I suppose if you squint a lot, you can see where he gets the idea from. However, there's not a whole lot in Alaska, Yukon and BC/Alberta that's comparable to the central US. Industry, there's very little. Alaska and Alberta produce oil, but the Soviets certainly weren't trying to exploit the tar sands of Alberta during the war, nor were they particularly good at extracting the North Slope fields.

The main benefit would have been knocking the Soviets either out of the northern theater altogether, or (more likely) pushing them back to the Yukon/Alaska area. Would have freed up a lot of strategic space, had they been successful.

The biggest issue is that a whole lot of the territory the Soviets were occupying was VERY much in favor of the defense, rather than the offense. Lots of forested areas, mountainous areas, swamps, rivers, few roads, all that sort of thing.

Belushi TD

[Poohbah]

I have to ask, when did Moscow tell their commanders not to smoke the war reserve stock when deployed? The US always go for deep strikes even when it's not a good idea. I present the Doolittle Raid.

The only source we have is the successor's account from his postwar interrogation by the Canadians. Moscow apparently seriously expected that if they kicked the door in, the whole rotten edifice would collapse, and to plan for a quick campaign. More urgency was attached to Party "political education" cadres and KGB "special action groups" than to proper rear area security and defense.

Instead, they kicked the door in and tripped the switch for the claymores in the front yard, another switch that started up the stereo playing Guns n Roses' "Welcome to the Jungle" at War Emergency Power, and then they discovered that the "armed figure" they just shot in the entry foyer was actually a mannequin filled with rusty nails and Tannerite...and then the owner comes downstairs with a rather impressive arsenal wondering who is the fooking idiot was who didn't notice the sign that says, "TRESPASSERS WILL BE SHOT: SURVIVORS WILL BE RIDDLED," and he's blasting away, saying "You done hit the wrong house, muthaf***as!"

[jemhouston]

Moscow never considered the US demographics? Besides a large percent of Germans, we also have a lot of Irish and Scots. The later two groups are well known for how to hold a grudge. Germans are pretty catering a cold revenge.

[Poohbah]

Moscow never considered the US demographics? Besides a large percent of Germans, we also have a lot of Irish and Scots. The later two groups are well known for how to hold a grudge. Germans are pretty catering a cold revenge.

Sophie Lodge's ancestry is Scottish on her mother's side and French Huguenot and Acadian on her father's. Probably not a good idea to rile her up, but that's exactly what Comrade Chebrikov did.

[Wolfman]

Moscow never considered the US demographics? Besides a large percent of Germans, we also have a lot of Irish and Scots. The later two groups are well known for how to hold a grudge. Germans are pretty catering a cold revenge.

Sophie Lodge's ancestry is Scottish on her mother's side and French Huguenot and Acadian on her father's. Probably not a good idea to rile her up, but that's exactly what Comrade Chebrikov did.

And earned an, admittedly delayed, Darwin Award for his Stupidity…

[Matt Wiser]

Voyska PVO did make it to the Lower 48 beginning in 1986: Several PVO Regiments made it to Texas, New Mexico, and Oklahoma, flying either MiG-23s or MiG-25s. And the heavy SAMs (SA-2, -3, and -5) that were also installed in those states were PVO operated.

[Lordroel]

Photo: taken by the crew of the electronic warfare Argentinian Boeing 707 aircraft registered VR-21 as they where flying over the South Atlantic on an recon mission as part of the Argentinian planned Second Falklands invasion, the 707 was intercepted by two F-4M “Phantom” fighter jets of the Royal Air Force, based in the Falkland Islands. Photo most likley taken several days before HMS Revenge (S27) fired a Polaris missile at Argentina's main naval base to prevent a second Falklands invasion, 1986.

[Matt Wiser]

An "Otherwise Acquired" MiG-23MS of the USAF's 4477th Test and Evaluation Squadron over the Nellis Range, 1987. Both Lt. Col. Mitchell Gant and Maj. Viktor Belenko spent a lot of time with the squadron during the war.

[Poohbah]

An "Otherwise Acquired" MiG-23MS of the USAF's 4477th Test and Evaluation Squadron over the Nellis Range, 1987. Both Lt. Col. Mitchell Gant and Maj. Viktor Belenko spent a lot of time with the squadron during the war.

The plane that tried to kill everyone who tried to fly it.

[Matt Wiser]

Which is what one of the Red Hats said after the program was declassified: "It tried to kill me every time I flew it."