What happened to Eire / Ireland ??

[Nik_SpeakerToCats]

Sorry, I've lost my way in TBO...
And, even seriously zoomed --Ctrl-Scroll for the win !!-- I'm still stuck at a fraction of prior reading speed...

After Halifax' submission and the progressive German take-over of UK, did Reich go on to ingest Eire ??

[Craiglxviii]

Used as a holiday camp and pleasuredome for the SS. Almost entirely depopulated in some areas. By the time of the Jenny Dunham murder (one of the Conrad stories) the British Army was sweeping across the country, finding SS & Einsatzgruppen remnants.

[Lordroel]

Used as a holiday camp and pleasuredome for the SS. Almost entirely depopulated in some areas. By the time of the Jenny Dunham murder (one of the Conrad stories) the British Army was sweeping across the country, finding SS & Einsatzgruppen remnants.

You assume the IRA was active in Ireland, but then again, we know how the SS responds to even one death of a SS soldier, entire villages burn to the ground with everybody in it.

[Craiglxviii]

Used as a holiday camp and pleasuredome for the SS. Almost entirely depopulated in some areas. By the time of the Jenny Dunham murder (one of the Conrad stories) the British Army was sweeping across the country, finding SS & Einsatzgruppen remnants.

You assume the IRA was active in Ireland, but then again, we know how the SS responds to even one death of a SS soldier, entire villages burn to the ground with everybody in it.

Stuart did explain that. Explicitly. The IRA tried the same tactics on the SS that they’d used before, only to be met with Lidice Rules- kill a German soldier, and the nearest village gets exterminated.

[Nik_SpeakerToCats]

Brrr...

Is there any 'canon' for when this take-over occurs ?
eg how fast did Germans move from acquiring Northern Ireland with UK to bagging Eire ??

I'm thinking some US subs are making covert calls on the usual Atlantic coast 'fishing ports' and bays...

[Craiglxviii]

Brrr...

Is there any 'canon' for when this take-over occurs ?
eg how fast did Germans move from acquiring Northern Ireland with UK to bagging Eire ??

I'm thinking some US subs are making covert calls on the usual Atlantic coast 'fishing ports' and bays...

Good question. I don’t recall if such was ever mentioned.

[Nik_SpeakerToCats]

Thank you.

I'd suppose that, when the 'Lidice' hammer fell, a lot of trawlers etc fled SE to Lisbon and Casablanca, or SW across to the US / Gulf arc. Many will not have made it, or staggered in on 'Jury Rigs'...

What did the US do 'Off the Record' in those dire days ? There's ample wriggle-room for covert activities. Citing 'Need To Know' covers many gaps...

[Craiglxviii]

Thank you.

I'd suppose that, when the 'Lidice' hammer fell, a lot of trawlers etc fled SE to Lisbon and Casablanca, or SW across to the US / Gulf arc. Many will not have made it, or staggered in on 'Jury Rigs'...

What did the US do 'Off the Record' in those dire days ? There's ample wriggle-room for covert activities. Citing 'Need To Know' covers many gaps...

Or north to the Faeroes or Iceland, both of which were friendly.

Actually there’s a point, one I’m unsure if ever was explored, the various Scottish islands- were they ever occupied?

[Belushi TD]

I seem to recall that Stuart stated that the Irish, as a culture, had been destroyed. I think he also said that at least 50% of the people were killed between..... 1943/4??? and 1947? Number may have been as high as 70 or 80%.

As stated above, large areas depopulated. The standard atrocities aside from Lidice rules, forcing women into brothels, killing anyone who looked at a German funny, torture, all the stuff the SS was infamous for on the eastern front in @.

I also seem to recall that they were in bad enough shape by the Big One that even the British sent what help they could. Does anyone remember if the US get involved in the helping? I can't remember all the details at this point. I know Spain and Italy sent LOTS of help north, particularly during the winter of 47/48 and subsequent winters, but I also sort of remember that the US aid was grudgingly accepted because they needed the help, but most of Europe regarded their condition as at least partially the fault of the US.

Trawlers also would have gone to Iceland, yes? I seem to recall that the US occupied Iceland, right? Wasn't that one of the places that became states? Greenland, Azores, Iceland? One more?

Its been far too long since I reread Stuart's books. I received Conrad's Other Eye for Christmas this year, and just finished reading it. Think I'm going to reread the rest now.

Belushi TD

[Johnnie Lyle]

It’s not just massacres, though.

Famine, plus having to have the shit bombed out of it to suppress German installations and industry are going to kill a lot of people too. Just knocking out the transportation system will hit very hard.

[jemhouston]

Greenland don't remember. Azores we bought fair and square. Iceland, we did some crooked stuff involving the occupation troops voting to join the US.

[Rocket J Squrriel]

I think it was mentioned on the board once that most, if not all, of the horse population in Ireland was gone due to confiscations by the German. I wonder if that applies to the UK and other countries in Western Europe too?

I think I asked the question once to Stuart about Ireland and the reply was that there were more Irish in Boston than Ireland. Also that outside of Sweden, Switzerland, and maybe Italy the Jewish population was gone. There was an outside chance that some may had survived in Spain and Hungary. The death tolls in Russian from the starvation plans were beyond belief.

[Johnnie Lyle]

I think it was mentioned on the board once that most, if not all, of the horse population in Ireland was gone due to confiscations by the German. I wonder if that applies to the UK and other countries in Western Europe too?

Yes. No choice but to strip them bare to support the Wehrmacht’s logistics given how bad horse deaths are in the East. Most of the trucks get stripped too. And don’t forget that the Germans are utilizing the captured Western Europe to feed and sustain the civilian population as well, without much regard for the impact on the people they conquered.

I think I asked the question once to Stuart about Ireland and the reply was that there were more Irish in Boston than Ireland. Also that outside of Sweden, Switzerland, and maybe Italy the Jewish population was gone. There was an outside chance that some may had survived in Spain and Hungary. The death tolls in Russian from the starvation plans were beyond belief.

Yup. Two more years of slaughter at 1944 industrial scale means that pretty much everyone on the tops of the killing lists are dead, and they have had more opportunities to start killing Czechs, Poles, Slovaks, etc as well.

Basically the longer the Third Reich runs, the nastier things get for everyone in Europe.

[Nik_SpeakerToCats]

Tangential, if RN / USN did sent covert subs to Eire Atlantic coast / rendezvous, which 'class' would they use ?

I must wonder if some groups / mini-convoys of escaping trawlers etc had a 'Guardian Angel'. Any German destroyer or light-cruiser closing on such helpless craft might well have taken a torpedo or two amidships. I doubt those irate trawler-men would bother to rescue survivors...

Also, those infamous 'Wonky Fuses' that initially refused to 'Play Nice' in Pacific due to salinity and magnetic declination differences would be right at home in North Atlantic...

[jemhouston]

Thanks to a U-Boat machine gunning the survivors of US Coast Guard Cutter (Tanney?) they sunk, nobody picked up U-Boat survivors, including the USN, RN, and RCN. I'm not sure they machined gunned survivors, but it's probably.

[Johnnie Lyle]

Thanks to a U-Boat machine gunning the survivors of US Coast Guard Cutter (Tanney?) they sunk, nobody picked up U-Boat survivors, including the USN, RN, and RCN. I'm not sure they machined gunned survivors, but it's probably.

Kinder than leaving them to die in the water from thirst, exposure and starvation, less kind than leaving them to freeze in the water.

6-5 and pick ‘em on how people felt.

[Craiglxviii]

Tangential, if RN / USN did sent covert subs to Eire Atlantic coast / rendezvous, which 'class' would they use ?

I must wonder if some groups / mini-convoys of escaping trawlers etc had a 'Guardian Angel'. Any German destroyer or light-cruiser closing on such helpless craft might well have taken a torpedo or two amidships. I doubt those irate trawler-men would bother to rescue survivors...

Also, those infamous 'Wonky Fuses' that initially refused to 'Play Nice' in Pacific due to salinity and magnetic declination differences would be right at home in North Atlantic...

Stuart had it in canon that the RN’s submarines were used for the clandestine missions to the U.K., as being more handy in closed/ shallow water. So they’d be the logical choice.

Also, the USN’s faulty torpedo fuses were corrected after 1942 and the Great Escape brought its submarine depot ships with their torpedo workshops into play.

[Craiglxviii]

Thanks to a U-Boat machine gunning the survivors of US Coast Guard Cutter (Tanney?) they sunk, nobody picked up U-Boat survivors, including the USN, RN, and RCN. I'm not sure they machined gunned survivors, but it's probably.

The Taney.

Yes, Kriegsmarine survivors were explicitly gunned down in the water. In canon. Just after the Battle of the Faeroes, when one of the sweeping US destroyers spotted German survivors, a 40mm gun captain asked permission to open fire on them.

[Nik_SpeakerToCats]

In OTL, as Captain 'Johnny' Walker operated from near here, there were some interesting tales, bordering on 'Urban Legend'...

IIRC, one held that potential rescue of surfaced U-Boot crews was often delayed by further 'possible' U-Boot sightings. Which, given 'Wolf Pack' tactics, was not unreasonable. By the time area was confirmed as 'clear', hypothermia meant the 'evolution' had become 'body recovery'...

[Craiglxviii]

In OTL, as Captain 'Johnny' Walker operated from near here, there were some interesting tales, bordering on 'Urban Legend'...

IIRC, one held that potential rescue of surfaced U-Boot crews was often delayed by further 'possible' U-Boot sightings. Which, given 'Wolf Pack' tactics, was not unreasonable. By the time area was confirmed as 'clear', hypothermia meant the 'evolution' had become 'body recovery'...

That was quite normal, no ship would stop to rescue survivors if there was a known U-boat threat. About half of the BISMARCK’s initial survivors were left to freeze to death due to exactly this.