Starliner now in orbit "into August"....

[Kunkmiester]

How about leave it up there (undock with arm and strap it to the truss somewhere) and when starship is ready you can bring the whole thing back down to look at?

[MikeKozlowski]

...Trying to confirm, but word is that the crew is there until February and Starliner will be brought down unmanned.

Let the finger pointing commence.

EDIT: Popping up on TwiX now too.

Mike

[brovane]

It has been confirmed. Another Boeing FUBAR.

[Nik_SpeakerToCats]

Both a remarkably sensible decision by NASA, and a mega-hit for Boeing.

Who will hopefully, be billed for expenses, consequential loss etc etc by both NASA and Space-X...

[brovane]

Both a remarkably sensible decision by NASA, and a mega-hit for Boeing.

Who will hopefully, be billed for expenses, consequential loss etc etc by both NASA and Space-X...

It really doesn't matter much to SpaceX. Just a change in procedures to launch with two people instead of four and sending up new spacesuits for the Boeing crew. NASA still gets the crew time on orbit at the ISS, just with two different astronauts. Having them stay in orbit until crew-9 return was the least impacting move. The two astronauts getting bumped from Crew-9, they just go screwed. The big decision will be after Starliner returns home unmanned, will NASA require another test launch to certify Starliner for crew? Will Boeing decide to walk away? Will Boeing go whining to Congress that this is unfair and they need more money for the firm fixed price commercial crew contract? I wouldn't put it past Boeing to go back and ask for more money after everything calms down. Maybe sometime early next year after the election. There will be a statement that NASA doesn't want to be dependent on SpaceX because Musk is a bad man, and is unstable so Boeing needs another $1B+ to complete Commercial Crew so NASA has alternatives to SpaceX.

[Belushi TD]

Well, it sucks for Boeing, but I strongly suspect its the right decision.

The only question I have is why does it have to wait until February? There's no way to shift the schedule to get a return capsule up there sooner?

The best part of all of this is that if they're going to return Starliner without anyone in it, is that its likely to make it back with precisely ZERO problems.

Belushi TD

[brovane]

Well, it sucks for Boeing, but I strongly suspect its the right decision.

The only question I have is why does it have to wait until February? There's no way to shift the schedule to get a return capsule up there sooner?

The best part of all of this is that if they're going to return Starliner without anyone in it, is that its likely to make it back with precisely ZERO problems.

Belushi TD

Crew rotations are setup way in advance. The only way to change this would be for someone to pay SpaceX to send up a Crew Dragon just to pickup Butch and Sunni. Technically NASA could probably easily contract with Axiom since they have trained commercial astronauts who can fly Dragon. However this would require somebody paying Axiom, who would then need to contract with SpaceX for the services. I could think of worse places to be for 8-months.

[jemhouston]

Anyone knows why NASA didn't put into the contract that everybody has use the same spacesuit or least the same fittings? You think after the Apollo 13 LM cylindric scrubbers and the CM square ones NASA would want things interchangeable.

[MikeKozlowski]

Anyone knows why NASA didn't put into the contract that everybody has use the same spacesuit or least the same fittings? You think after the Apollo 13 LM cylindric scrubbers and the CM square ones NASA would want things interchangeable.

Jem,

When Dad worked at NASA, he found out PDQ that part of the drill is reinventing the wheel on every project.

Mike

[jemhouston]

Got rid of post

[brovane]

Anyone knows why NASA didn't put into the contract that everybody has use the same spacesuit or least the same fittings? You think after the Apollo 13 LM cylindric scrubbers and the CM square ones NASA would want things interchangeable.

I think people are making a bigger of deal out of the incompatible spacesuits than is necessary. You need the seat for the astronaut and when you launch crew to the ISS usually all the seats are accounted for with astronauts. Even if Starliner and Crew Dragon had compatible spacesuits, Butch and Sunni still wouldn't have a place to sit on Crew-8's crew Dragon because all 4 seats are already assigned to astronauts. This would only make a difference if Crew Dragon launches with empty seats and normally this doesn't happen. In order to get the empty seats on Crew Dragon, SpaceX will launch Crew-9 with 2 empty seats and if you are sending up a Dragon with empty seats. It really isn't that much of a problem to send up the compatible suits for Butch and Sunni. Really people are making a big deal about this but if you think about it logically, Dragon usually doesn't launch with empty seats so it really doesn't matter that the spacesuits are not compatible.

[James1978]

Anyone knows why NASA didn't put into the contract that everybody has use the same spacesuit or least the same fittings? You think after the Apollo 13 LM cylindric scrubbers and the CM square ones NASA would want things interchangeable.

According to this article:

The reason for the incompatibility between SpaceX's and Boeing's suits is due to the nature of NASA's Commercial Crew program, which funded the development of both Boeing's Starliner and SpaceX's Crew Dragon spacecraft.

"For every era of spaceflight before this current one, NASA used a different model of procuring spaceships," explained Swapna Krishna from the YouTube channel Ad Astra in a recent explainer video, adding that NASA used to be "deeply involved" throughout the entire process.

But with Commercial Crew, NASA allowed its private partners to "design and innovate as long as the companies met NASA's broad requirements and safety standards, as well as reach specific milestones, one of which is a successful crewed test flight," Krishna explained.

Yet the agency "did not specify" that the spacesuits "needed to be cross-compatible," a way "NASA controls risk" by keeping its options as wide as possible in case something went wrong with one option.

With Boeing and SpaceX choosing vastly different design approaches, one can't simply be swapped for the other.

In that light, it actually kinda makes sense.

[brovane]

Interesting excerpts from Eric Berger's forthcoming book "Reentry"

https://twitter.com/FutureJurvetson/sta ... 5377169618

NASA just decided that SpaceX needs to rescue Boeing’s astronauts.

Written before the Starliner debacle, Berger’s forthcoming book Reentry tells the backstory with plenty of foreshadowing, starting with Boeing’s attempt to be the sole crewed spacecraft provider:

“Boeing had a solution, telling NASA it needed the entire Commercial Crew budget to succeed. Because a lot of decision makers believed that only Boeing could safely fly astronauts, the company’s gambit very nearly worked.” (p.270)

After “a cascade of pro-Boeing opinions swept around the table, a building and unbreakable wave of consensus” (272), NASA’s human exploration lead Gerstenmeier took a month to decide, eventually asking for more budget to support two competing efforts. Ultimately, Boeing would receive twice as much funding as SpaceX, but SpaceX was in the game, as the new kid on the block.

“It had been a very near thing. NASA officials had already written a justification for selecting Boeing, solely for the Commercial Crew contract. It was ready to go and had to be hastily rewritten to include SpaceX. This delayed the announcement to September 16.” (274)

“Former NASA astronaut Garrett Reisman helped write the proposal and provide and astronaut’s perspective. But their small team was no match for Boeing’s proposal-writing machine. It was intimidating knowing that 200 people were working on Boeing’s proposal, when Dragon’s team could fit in a small conference room.” (275) With Reisman in photo 2 above from 2012, after pulling an all-nighter at SpaceX: https://flic.kr/p/c5sY3N

“BOEING HAS AN ASTRONAUT PROBLEM” (291)

“When the SpaceX engineers could be corralled, they were eager to hear feedback from the NASA astronauts , excited to work with them, and attentive to their suggestions. By contrast, Boeing engineers seemed indifferent to hearing from the four commercial crew astronauts.” (293)

“There was an arrogance with them that you certainly didn’t see at SpaceX.” (astronaut Hurley, p.294)

“Boeing also underperformed. Not only were its engineers overconfident, but the company’s management also was not putting skin in the game. Hurley did not see any urgency from Boeing’s teams. Rather, they appeared to be working part-time on Starliner. ‘It was all about managing dollars and cents from Boeing’s perspective,’ Hurley said.” (295)

“During the summer of 2018 as Boeing worked toward a pad abort test in White Sands, New Mexico (Boeing never flew an in-flight abort test)… a significant problem occurred due to a propellant leak. Ultimately, this would delay the company’s pad abort test by more than a year, but at the time, Boeing neglected to tell the Commercial Crew astronauts about the issue.” (295)

“That summer NASA was closing in on making crew assignments for the first flights. Hurley told the chief of the astronaut office he would not fly on Starliner.” (296)

He went on to fly the first SpaceX Dragon to bring crew to the ISS (we were there for the launch, photo 3). “‘It was the second space age,’ Hurley said. ‘And it started in 2020.’” (313) My video from Mission Control captured the excitement of capture: https://youtube.com/watch?v=bwqdEKLitC8

“SpaceX emerged triumphant over another major domestic competitor, Boeing, as well. The company that supposedly went for substance over pizzazz, ended up with neither in the Commercial Crew race.” (340)

Just prior to their first human flight, there were several “shocking discoveries, especially so close to the flight. Neither NASA nor Boeing had good answers for why they had been found as astronauts were about to strap into Starliner. Questions emerged about the company’s commitment to the program. Because it operates on a fixed-price contract [and despite being 2x higher than SpaceX’s], Boeing has reported losses of nearly $1 billion on Starliner.” (342)

After being stranded in space, Suni will fly with SpaceX, as she originally hoped (photo 1 above).

And during this same time, there was a Boeing – Lockheed joint venture competing for launch, ULA: “The U.S. rocket wars were over. SpaceX had won. Since then, SpaceX has kept beating the dead horse. Over one stretch, from the end of 2022 into the first half of 2023, SpaceX launched more than fifty rockets between ULA flights. It has become difficult to remember that these two companies were once rivals, or that ULA’s employees would drive up to the SpaceX fence, jeering.” (339)

[Micael]

...Trying to confirm, but word is that the crew is there until February and Starliner will be brought down unmanned.

Let the finger pointing commence.

EDIT: Popping up on TwiX now too.

Mike

Absolutely best comment I’ve seen:

Humanity has about six months to purchase 8 billion ape costumes for the ultimate prank.

[Micael]

I wonder what this is going to turn out to be.

Boeing's Starliner crew are reporting hearing strange "sonar like noises" emanating from the spacecraft.

Crews on the International Space Station are trying to identify the source of strange noises reported by Boeing’s Starliner crew, who contacted Mission Control saying, ‘Houston, on two, we have a question about Starliner. We are hearing strange noises coming from the speaker, and we don’t know what’s causing it.’ The Starliner began emitting these ‘strange sonar noises,’ and astronauts on the ISS are working to diagnose the issue, which occurred on Saturday. Since the launched by Boeing on June 5th, the Starliner has faced several problems and significant challenges, temporarily stranding two astronauts. Due to safety concerns, Boeing’s Starliner is set to return on September 6th with no crew on board.

[PLB]

It's trying to phone home and nobody at Boeing is answering.

[Poohbah]

See if it's playing a Nickelback CD

[Nik_SpeakerToCats]

...strange "sonar like noises" emanating from the spacecraft ??
snark:
Isn't that the nav-mobo boot failure error code ?
Let's see: 'Tinkle-twinkle-burble-beep' ??
"BIOS Update parity check failure: Contact supplier for warranty RMA."
Oops...
/

[Micael]

Thinking about it, ”sonar like noises” makes me think metallic twang/resonance. Might something structural be starting to fail and causing resonating noises?

[Micael]

Audio is available here, it sounds weird:
https://x.com/spacebasedfox/status/1830 ... 42223?s=46