Starliner now in orbit "into August"....

[MikeKozlowski]

https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2024/07/27 ... t-n3792351

At this point, we might as well start sending them cheesy movies.

The worst we can find.

Mike

[Poohbah]

https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2024/07/27 ... t-n3792351

At this point, we might as well start sending them cheesy movies.

The worst we can find.

Mike

Plan 9 From Outer Space

[jemhouston]

https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2024/07/27 ... t-n3792351

At this point, we might as well start sending them cheesy movies.

The worst we can find.

Mike

Plan 9 From Outer Space

Make the Boeing Execs and Starliner team watch it.

[Straker]

So I wonder how much Space X will charge NASA for jumping the queue for a Falcon 9 / Dragon?

I know they technically don't have one available for a while due to the adaptions for the space walk flight blocking the docking mechanism but enough money or convincing could see it happen.

I do think it might have already have happened if the issue with the sensor that caused the Falcon 9 issue that suspended flights hadn't happened. Ironically it was probably a Space Force / NRO requirement for a double pressure sensor that caused it in the first place so the return to plan flight was to remove it. It was added 'for a customer requirement' and realistically only the US Gov have enough money to pay for an engine design modification and NASA aren't owning up to it.

I honestly can't see the Starliner flights contracted for every actually being completed by the time the ISS is out of service. I know its incredibly unlikely but the idea of Starliner docking at a replacement commercial station launched by Starship flights does make me laugh.

[Poohbah]

They set sail that day for a three hour tour, a three hour tour...

Will they be able to unlock and reenter prior to ISS deorbit?

[MikeKozlowski]

https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2024/07/27 ... t-n3792351

At this point, we might as well start sending them cheesy movies.

The worst we can find.

Mike

Plan 9 From Outer Space

Mike

[Johnnie Lyle]

https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2024/07/27 ... t-n3792351

At this point, we might as well start sending them cheesy movies.

The worst we can find.

Mike

Why torture the astronauts?

Boeing, sure.

[kdahm]

So I wonder how much Space X will charge NASA for jumping the queue for a Falcon 9 / Dragon?

I know they technically don't have one available for a while due to the adaptions for the space walk flight blocking the docking mechanism but enough money or convincing could see it happen.

I do think it might have already have happened if the issue with the sensor that caused the Falcon 9 issue that suspended flights hadn't happened. Ironically it was probably a Space Force / NRO requirement for a double pressure sensor that caused it in the first place so the return to plan flight was to remove it. It was added 'for a customer requirement' and realistically only the US Gov have enough money to pay for an engine design modification and NASA aren't owning up to it.

I honestly can't see the Starliner flights contracted for every actually being completed by the time the ISS is out of service. I know its incredibly unlikely but the idea of Starliner docking at a replacement commercial station launched by Starship flights does make me laugh.

All they would need to do is add the two extra seats to the Crew 9 capsule. Then flip flop and send the Crew 8 group down on that one, plus the Starliner crew. That might have issues with the Time in Space for the Crew 8 capsule. Or include tools and have the astronauts move the seats between capsules.

It would also require a waiver from NASA for landing with 6 on board, but NASA hands out waivers like they were pancakes, especially when Boeing is involved.

[jemhouston]

Couldn't SpaceX simply send the capsule up unmanned?

[MikeKozlowski]

https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2024/07/27 ... t-n3792351

At this point, we might as well start sending them cheesy movies.

The worst we can find.

Mike

Why torture the astronauts?

Boeing, sure.

At this point, Boeing's closer to these guys:



Mike

[MikeKozlowski]

"RETIRED ASTRONAUT ADMITS BOEING'S STARLINER HAS TRAPPED CREW IN SPACE..."

https://futurism.com/the-byte/retired-a ... -starliner

RETIRED ASTRONAUT ADMITS BOEING'S STARLINER HAS TRAPPED CREW IN SPACE
"OF COURSE THEY DON’T FEEL COMFORTABLE PUTTING THEM IN THE VEHICLE."

With two NASA astronauts still stranded in space for weeks, officials at the space agency have insisted that the troubled Boeing Starliner, plagued with technical issues, can take the two explorers back to Earth.

So, why haven't they already?

An unnamed retired astronaut tells The Atlantic the obvious truth that NASA has been dancing around since the beginning of this space boondoggle: it's just too risky right now.

"Of course they don’t feel comfortable putting them in the vehicle," the retired astronaut told the magazine, referring to the Starliner, which transported the astronauts to the International Space Station (ISS) back in June and is meant to return them back home. "Otherwise they would have put them in it already."

Expect Delays
No date has been set for a return trip, with the earliest date now pushed back to August. To explain away the delay, NASA officials have said repeatedly that they want to test and troubleshoot the Starliner capsule before committing to a return trip.

The trouble started when helium leaks were discovered on Starliner prior to takeoff. They opted to launch anyway, and on its journey toward the ISS, it started experiencing additional leaks and malfunctioning thrusters.

Boeing has gotten the brunt of the negative press, not least because the company's airplanes have been in the news for falling doors and other quality control issues, casting a pall over its space efforts as well.

But NASA shouldn't escape scrutiny, the Atlantic article argues, and the space agency has been less than forthcoming with issues surrounding the Starliner, which has been ill-fated from the start of its development with various technical issues and aborted launches.

Boys Club
For its part, NASA is eager to have a second option for ferrying astronauts into space beyond the more battle-tested Dragon capsule manufactured by SpaceX.

But even setting aside the Starliner, NASA 's relationship with SpaceX, headed by mercurial tech billionaire Elon Musk, has had its own fair share of headaches.

While SpaceX missions into space have been successful, the commercial space outfit has seen death and injuries to personnel, not to mention Musk's purported drug use and inappropriate relations with women staff.

One of those female staff members, a flight attendant, sued Musk for exposing his penis to her, resulting in a $250,000 payout to quiet down the scandal.

There's been no answer from NASA on these issues, but with American dollars being used for these missions, there's no question that the space agency needs to be more transparent.

Here's the thing, as I see it: StarLiner appears to be unsafe for a deorbit and return with a crew, full stop. I have no doubt NASA and Boeing are running sim after test after analysis, but I also have no doubt that they keep coming up with the same answer: too high a chance of a dead crew. And a dead crew means the end of StarLiner, the end of the program at NASA, and quite likely a possibly-mortal hit to an already wounded Boeing. And if somebody along the chain says, "Bring them down in Starliner anyways" and the worst happens, this time that somebody may well end up in jail.

On the other hand, sending up a Falcon Uber to get the crew home...gets you the same damned results, with the added fillip of NASA possibly screwing up the deorbit so badly that it drops fragments over populated areas.

Nobody at NASA has the guts to go to Capitol Hill now and say, "We screwed up. The program doesn't work; and we will never be able to get it to work with any reasonable amount of time and money."

Mike

[kdahm]

Here's the thing, as I see it: StarLiner appears to be unsafe for a deorbit and return with a crew, full stop. I have no doubt NASA and Boeing are running sim after test after analysis, but I also have no doubt that they keep coming up with the same answer: too high a chance of a dead crew. And a dead crew means the end of StarLiner, the end of the program at NASA, and quite likely a possibly-mortal hit to an already wounded Boeing. And if somebody along the chain says, "Bring them down in Starliner anyways" and the worst happens, this time that somebody may well end up in jail.

On the other hand, sending up a Falcon Uber to get the crew home...gets you the same damned results, with the added fillip of NASA possibly screwing up the deorbit so badly that it drops fragments over populated areas.

Nobody at NASA has the guts to go to Capitol Hill now and say, "We screwed up. The program doesn't work; and we will never be able to get it to work with any reasonable amount of time and money."

Mike

I disagree in that I think it's safe fro the astronauts to descend in the Starliner. It's just a separation from the ISS, a little bit of maneuvering, and a deorbit burn. Then the service trunk is separated and there are no longer any thruster issues or helium leaks.

The big issue is that this is supposed to be the manned demonstration flight for Starliner. So far, NASA has paid $3.3 billion (not including NASA support costs) for this pig in a poke, and Boeing has dropped $1.5 billion in cost overruns. The number I've seen for the six actual performance flights are $90 million a seat, four to seven seats per flight. Both NASA and Boeing are desperate to salvage what they can from this debacle, and try to avoid requiring Boeing to pay for another demonstration flight. If NASA does, by the terms of the contract, Boeing is likely to simply walk away and pay whatever forfeits required instead of continuing to lose money.

Very much like the Pentagon and the DDG-1000, it's a problem of avoiding the sunk cost fallacy. Or at least the perception of it. NASA wants and needs two independent methods of getting into space. They have to support Boeing, because Boeing has more congresscritters than SpaceX. The investigation has simply proceeded to the point of absurdity, especially compared to the SpaceX loss of Starlink Group 9-3 and their resumption of flight. Unlike ten years ago, when it would have been expected, this one has played out much more in the public eye.

If the astronauts don't land in the Starliner, then Boeing has to fly it again, and there are only five Atlas rockets left for revenue flights instead of six.

[Belushi TD]

Why did they stop making the Atlas V? My cursory research indicates that there's a replacement rocket that's actually flown payloads to orbit, so its that they don't want to end up competing with themselves?

And why can't Starliner launch on the replacement?

Or is there a mass issue?

Belushi TD

[kdahm]

Why did they stop making the Atlas V? My cursory research indicates that there's a replacement rocket that's actually flown payloads to orbit, so its that they don't want to end up competing with themselves?

And why can't Starliner launch on the replacement?

Or is there a mass issue?

Belushi TD

They stopped making the Atlas because it uses the RD-180 engines from Russia. After the annexation of Crimea, import of the engines was questionable and subject to much politics. ULA decided to look at US manufacture of the RD-180, and also to building a new rocket with US made engines, resulting in the Vulcan. After February 2022, everything naturally stopped.

Of course, the Vulcan rocket uses engines from Blue Origin, which are horrifically behind schedule, causing more delays.

Theoretically, they can launch on a replacement. First, the booster has to fly enough to be considered reliable for human rating. At the present point, Vulcan is about do it's second demo launch for cargo with a dummy payload, because the real one can't be ready in time and will have to fly later. The SLS is vast overkill, the next booster may be ready for a Fall 2025 launch (with astronauts in the Orion capsule), and at $2.5-$4.4 billion per launch, isn't remotely cost effective. Falcon 9 is human rated, but already has the Dragon capsule, and Boeing execs would rather crawl over broken glass to give money back to Congress before asking SpaceX to sell them a ride.

Technically, all they have to do is make changes to where the service module connects to the second stage. The candidates are all close to the same diameter. Then go through all of the paperwork and safety engineering to make the changes human rated. Half a billion dollars, for a capability that won't launch more than once a year, already extends through the life of the ISS, and would come out of Boeing's pockets on the fixed cost contract. And that already costs half again what SpaceX is charging to deliver astronauts to the ISS.

[Rocket J Squrriel]

IIRC LockMart was suppose to get a license to build the RD-180 when the EELV program started 20 years ago. USAF even wrote it in the contract. It never happened and USAF just let it slide.

[warshipadmin]

" the commercial space outfit has seen death and injuries to personnel" Oh FFS, somebody got killed while in a truck. FUD.

[Poohbah]

Maybe send them a Blu-ray of Marooned?

[Johnnie Lyle]

Maybe send them a Blu-ray of Marooned?

Maybe send them the mass limits for StarLiner and Dragon, with the calculation of how many Boeing executives we could use to test StarLiner’s ability to re-enter if we chopped their arms, legs and genitals off.

[kdahm]

Maybe send them a Blu-ray of Marooned?

Maybe send them the mass limits for StarLiner and Dragon, with the calculation of how many Boeing executives we could use to test StarLiner’s ability to re-enter if we chopped their arms, legs and genitals off.

Cruel and unusual punishment.

Elon doesn't have a cargo for Starship Flight 5 yet......

[Johnnie Lyle]

Maybe send them a Blu-ray of Marooned?

Maybe send them the mass limits for StarLiner and Dragon, with the calculation of how many Boeing executives we could use to test StarLiner’s ability to re-enter if we chopped their arms, legs and genitals off.

Cruel and unusual punishment.

Elon doesn't have a cargo for Starship Flight 5 yet......

It’s only unusual if you don’t do it to all the screwups.

Being serious, these jagoffs, bless their non-existent hearts, have been paid an exorbitant sum of money by the United States government to provide cutting edge aerospace technology. As far as I can tell, the only cutting edge involved might be the tools left in the KC-46s they forced on us or the shrapnel produced by the 737MAXes as they blew their doors or crashed.

As such, they are classic examples of the problem increasingly bedeviling the United States: mediocrities burdened by delusions of adequacy playing a diabolical game of musical chairs, hoping to get rich and cash out before the music stops, they’re in the Big Chair, and they have to produce something that works as advertised.

To date, these people, best described using words my mother wishes I didn’t know in combinations that would make the Senior Chief blush and are probably anatomically impossible, have killed something like a couple hundred people and behaved with a smarmy cynicism worthy of America’s other corporate mass murderer, PG&E. As such, they have exhausted both my patience and willingness to adhere to the spirit of the Constitution if the letter allows me to reach back and assert myself.

Or, in the vernacular, fuck ‘em. They earned it. I’m beyond done with this being “the best we can do” since SpaceX shows it’s clearly not.

And yes, if people worry I am being overly harsh, I ran my remarks through independent analysis and they confirmed I was not.