The Last War: Chapter 372.

The long and short stories of 'The Last War' by Jan Niemczyk and others
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Bernard Woolley
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The Last War: Chapter 372.

Post by Bernard Woolley »

D+29

*

0001, hours GMT. 21st May. Near Helmstedt, FRG.
Captain White spotted the incoming missile off her Apache’s nose. She pushed the nose down, hoping to dive under it. The SA-16 was not able to adjust to the helicopter’s rapid change of direction in time and shot over the top of the Apache. However, it got just close enough to proximity fuze. White felt the helicopter shudder and heard a sound like hail hitting the airframe. She flinched as the canopy above her head cracked.

“Shit!” She exclaimed as she pulled up and turned away from the potential threat.
“I need a new pair of underpants!” Jones reported.

The Apache was vibrating badly and almost every warning light in the cockpit had illuminated. Keeping the helicopter as stead as she could, White took in the warnings. The left-hand engine was losing power rapidly, while also at the same time the turbine temperature was rising at an alarming rate. The right-hand engine was also slowly losing power, but not quite as rapidly.

“We’re in trouble, Dav.” She told her gunner. “I’m losing power on both engines; I think we’re on fire and it feels like at least one of the rotor blades have been damaged.”
“I’ll get my walking boots on then, Rach.” Staff Sergeant Jones replied.
“You may well need them!” White observed as she did her best to control the helicopter. “Okay, I see a good spot to put her down. I’d prefer to put her down on the other side of the IGB, but I don’t think we’ll make it that far.”
“Got it.” Jones said, tightening the straps on his harness.

White had spotted a gap in the border defences, where East German engineers had cut the fence down and cleared the various mines. If she could put the Apache down close to the gap, then she and Jones could make a dash for the West German side. She could feel that she was losing control of the helicopter, so it was now, or never.

“Hold on, Dav, I’m putting her down now.”

It was not possible to put the Apache down in the normal way by bringing it into the hover. Instead, White slowed it down as much as she could, before bringing the nose up at the last second. The Apache hit the ground hard and fast, its undercarriage collapsing, as it absorbed a lot of the impact. White and Jones were thrown against their harness as the nose dropped and the Apache slid along the ground for some distance. It finally came to a rest, lying slightly to its left side, its back broken.

It took White a moment to clear her head before clambering out of the rear cockpit. As she suspected, the Apache was on fire, so she quickly put some distance between her and the helicopter.

“You okay, Dav?” She asked her gunner, a moment later.
“Yeah, I think so, Rach. You?”
“Still in one piece.”

White was about to discard her helmet and harness, when she heard and saw the approach of her wingman’s Apache, flown by Warrant Officer Budden. It circled the crash site before approaching to land.

“Keep your helmet and harness on. Spooky and Jack are coming to get us.”

In the absence of Combat SAR being immediately available, Apaches had an ‘in extremis’ method of extracting shot down aircrew. They could climb onto the top of the stub-wings and hook their harness to attachment points that were there for that very purpose. It was not a very comfortable way to be rescued, but it was better than the alternative.

The flight to safety was not pleasant, White being glad that she had kept her helmet. Budden dropping White and Jones off at the nearest FARP.

“Thanks, Spooky, I owe you and Jack a beer.” White told Budden once she had climbed down from the stub wing.
“I’ll hold you to that, Boss, but I’m sure you’d do the same for us.” The Canadian exchange pilot said with a chuckle.

0005 hours GMT. Over Bischweier, FRG.
Captain Wilson felt his G-suit trousers inflate as the Hawk turned sharply to intercept the incoming Su-24s. He hated being a mere passenger, unable to really influence events. The aircraft’s pilot, Lieutenant MacLean had already taken a head on shot at one ‘Fencer’ before turning to engage the rest of the formation as they passed the two Hawks. Realising that they were under attack, the Soviet aircraft had cut in their afterburners and tried to accelerate away. Though their heavy bomb load was hindering that.

“Fox two!” MacLean announced before turning his Hawk away from the target.
“Why are you turning away?” Wilson wanted to know.
“We’re running into the ADATS engagement zone.” MacLean replied as he levelled off. “We’ll return to our patrol area and see if we can catch any of them coming off target.”

As MacLean spoke, Wilson was sure that he spotted a flash coming from the ground not far away from CFB Baden–Soellingen. Wilson figured that MacLean evidently knew what he was doing and that he was just a bad passenger.

“Got one! 10 o’clock low!”

Wilson looked down and to port. He spotted the glowing hot exhausts of a ‘Fencer’ escaping east at high speed. MacLean rolled hard and pushed the throttle to the stop in order to try and catch the Su-24.

“Fox two!” MacLean announced. “Damn, just a little too late!” He said, as the ‘Fencer’ pulled away from his Hawk.

As MacLean had suspected, the Soviet bomber had pulled just a little too far ahead for the Sidewinder to catch it properly. However, as the missile began to drop away, it ‘salvage’ fuzed. It was too far away to cause fatal damage, but some fragments from the warhead struck the Su-24, causing some damage aft.

“Think you might have winged him.” Wilson opined, having seen the twin exhausts wobble just after the missile had exploded.
“Not good enough though, eh.” MacLean. “Aboot time we headed home.”

*

“How did you get on, Gordon?” Major Tremblay asked a while later.
“Not bad, Chef.” Wilson replied. “Though I’m pretty sure that Charlie Mac will be glad to be shot of me!”

Tremblay raised a questioning eyebrow.

“Oh, I really hate being in the back seat during an engagement!” Wilson said with a chuckle.
“Well, I’m sure you won’t need to worry about that for the foreseeable future!”

0703 hours GMT. EPW Camp No.2, near Düsseldorf, FRG.
The trouble had started just after rollcall had been announced. A rumour had gone around the camp that the British were going to start using Soviet and East German prisoners to deal with unexploded munitions and clear minefields. Where the rumour had started was unknown, but it may have been started by a prisoner who had been a KGB, or Stasi informant before capture.

The first indication that the British camp guards, members of the Military Provost Staff, got of trouble, was the refusal of the prisoners to parade for rollcall. The guards went from hut to hut to try and rouse their occupants. They found that some had their doors barricaded, while when they did gain access to others the immediately faced a violent assault. The guards were unarmed, save for extendable batons and flexible cuffs, so were driven back. Three of their number were stabbed with improvised knives and for their own safety the guards withdrew from the inner compound. As they retreated, the prisoners burst forth from their huts, intent on overrunning the guards and taking some hostage. Fortunately, they were stopped in their tracks as soldiers on guard towers fired warning shots into the ground just ahead of them.

*

The British Army had two PoW Camps in what was designated the Forward Combat Zone. They had been created on open ground from prefabricated buildings, shipping containers and barbed wire, Lots of barbed wire. They were essentially transit camps, with Enemy PoWs only spending a relatively short time in them before being transported to camps elsewhere.
The Third Geneva Convention required that Prisoners of War be removed from the War Zone as soon as possible. Given that all of Western Europe could technically be classed as a War Zone, that had proven to be a challenge. PoWs were also not really supposed to be transferred from the belligerent who had captured them to another power. Which made moving Warsaw Pact prisoners to camps in North America potentially problematic from a legal point of view. At least until the British had come up with a solution. They would send a small detachment from the Provost and Legal branches of the Adjutant General’s Corps to Canada and the USA, where they would be attached to PoW facilities run by those countries. Thereby, the UK legally retaining custody of the prisoners. Other NATO nations had quickly adopted the idea, sending their own small detachments to North America.

*

Several of the camp’s buildings were on fire when Staff Sergeant John ‘Jack’ Macragge and his detachment of ‘Redcaps’ from 111 Provost Company, RMP, arrived outside the camp. Only around half of the General Support Unit which formed the perimeter guard of the camp were facing inwards. The rest were keeping a wary eye on the area outside the camp. A wise precaution, given that there had already been two attempts by suspected Spetsnaz to break in to PoW camps. A West German water cannon and a pair of fire engines were also parked close by, next to some military and civilian ambulances. Leaving his men and women to unload their equipment he sought out the senior officer on site.

“Staff Sergent John Macragge, 111 Provost Company, Sir.” He said, introducing himself to a major.
“Major Sutton, Provost Branch. I’m in charge of both of the forward camps. I’m glad you’re here, Staff. I need all the public order trained troops I can get.”

Macragge looked around a little puzzled. He knew that the General Support Units assigned to BAOR were just over one hundred men strong. There were also at least two dozen provost staff. Was that not enough? Major Sutton seemed to read his mind.

“Six of my provost staff are out of action with injuries, while, quite frankly, the GSU is really only fit for guard duties. How many men do you have with you, Staff Sergeant?”
“Fifteen, including myself, Sir.”

Major Sutton pursed his lips and took a sharp intake of breath. Around thirty, or so soldiers would not really be enough to retake the camp. He needed at least double that to even think about trying to put down the riot.

0731 hours. Government Buildings, Dublin, Republic of Ireland.
Cabinet meetings started early these days, which meant the participants had to be up even earlier so that they could be prepared. The Chief of Staff of the Defence Forces, for example, had been at his office since just before 6am. Most of his staff had been there overnight. As he made his way to the Cabinet meeting, he hoped that the politicians would appreciate their hard work.

“Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.” The Taoiseach said as his cabinet took their seats in the Council Chamber. “As you are aware, the first item on the agenda is the proposal to send further military forces to the Continent. Willie, would you like to brief us on the matter?”
“Thank you, Bertie.” The Minister of Defence replied. “I’m going to defer to the Chief of Staff, however. General Sreenan?”

Attention in the room turned to the general, who took a moment before he started talking.

“The proposal we were asked to study was to send a second brigade group to Europe, probably to West Germany. In short, we could physically send a second brigade group, so long as our allies assisted us. However, it would be a light infantry formation short of vehicles and support weapons. It would largely be immobile, or dependant on borrowing vehicles from our allies.”

A murmur of voices caused the general to pause for a moment, until the Taoiseach held up his hand to still them.

“1st Brigade has almost all of our armoured vehicles and artillery assigned to it. Let me give you an example; our main armoured vehicle is the Piranha III. All but one of the Medium Reconnaissance Variants are now in Austria; the one left in Ireland was not deployed because it had been stripped for spare parts. Of the APC variants, there are only six left at The Curragh with the 1st Mechanised Infantry Company. Three of those have also been stripped for spares to keep the rest of the fleet operational. On the bright side, we do have enough guns and heavy mortars to give any brigade an artillery regiment equipped with two batteries of each. We could also field a composite cavalry regiment, formed from reserve squadrons, which would be equipped with the AML armoured car. But that would really be the only mobile formation in the brigade. I would also, quite frankly, be concerned with our ability to support two brigades abroad.”
“Just what would we need to get to make a brigade operational, General?” The Taoiseach wondered.

The Chief of Staff took a deep breath.

“In short…well, if we assume around forty-five APCs per battalion, plus a reconnaissance squadron of around eighteen vehicles…that’s at least one hundred and fifty-three armoured vehicles. And that’s just for a start. We’d also need a lot of soft-skin vehicles, additional spare parts, fuel, and that’s before we even think of the additional training we would need to put our soldiers through.
“I have a full report with me of our requirements.” He said, taking a thick folder out of his briefcase. He put it down on the cabinet table with an audible thud. “I can supply copies to anyone who would like to read it.”

The Taoiseach regarded the almost phone book sized document with some suspicion. Like most politicians, he had an innate distrust of weighty tomes produced by government bureaucracy.

“The majority of our current armoured vehicles were all bought from Switzerland, weren’t they?” The Minister for Foreign Affairs asked.
“That’s correct.” The Defence Minister confirmed.
“Well, they’re hardly likely to be willing to sell us anymore.” The Minister for Foreign Affairs replied.
“There is a possible alternative.” The Chief of Staff said quietly.
“Go on, General.” The Taoiseach said.

The Chief of Staff shifted in his seat before answering.

“The Canadians manufacture versions of the Piranha, which they call the LAV III. They also have some older vehicles also related to the Piranha, which as far as I know they have in storage. If the Canadians are willing to supply them, those vehicles could potentially meet our requirements. I do still have a major reservation about deploying a second brigade, however.”
“Logistics?” The Taoiseach asked.
“Logistics, Taoiseach.” The Chief of Staff confirmed.

The Taoiseach took a deep breath.

“General Sreenan, if you had to make a recommendation, what would it be?”
“Well, Taoiseach, supporting a brigade group in Austria is stretching our logistical ability to breaking point. Even with the help of our allies. Supporting a brigade in northern Germany would be a great deal easier. My recommendation would be to move 1st Brigade to Germany. I would also recommend contacting the Canadians regarding supply of their surplus armoured vehicles, as we will need replacements.”
“Taoiseach, I do agree with the General.” The Defence Minister added. “At the moment we have a supply line that stretches through France and southern West Germany, even before it reaches Austria. Compare that to the relatively short supply line to our small force in northwest Germany.”
“We can’t just unilaterally pull our troops out of Austria. No matter what the logistical arguments are.” The Minister for Foreign Affairs opined. “The political effects are incalculable. The image of one small country attacked by the Soviets assisting another former neutral also attacked by the Soviets was very powerful. It has played very well across the world. There are a lot of nations out there who have taken a more positive view towards NATO than they might otherwise have done because of our actions. We’ve not just slavishly followed the dictates of the Americans, or British. Which has demonstrated that NATO is really an alliance of equals.”

The Taoiseach nodded in agreement.

“I quite agree, Dermot. General Sreenan has made some good points, but sometimes politics trumps logic. If, another NATO country is able to replace our forces in Austria, we should relocate our brigade, but not before. We also need to speak to the Swedes and see what they would want to do with their battalion in those circumstances.” The Taoiseach looked from the Defence Minister to the Chief of Staff. “Willie, General Sreenan, I would like you to speak to your Canadian counterparts regarding the supply of the vehicles you mentioned. I also want our representative at Allied Supreme Headquarters to sound out a possible relocation of our brigade to Germany.”

The Taoiseach paused for a moment as he thought about something.

“At the moment we have a single cavalry squadron and a detachment of the Army Ranger Wing in West Germany attached to the British corps. What would be the minimum reinforcement we could send to that contingent?”
“A reinforced light infantry company group, Taoiseach. I’d attach some engineers and a heavy mortar battery.” The Chief of Staff replied.
“Well, unless there are any objections, let’s look at doing that.” The Taoiseach declared.

As he had hoped there was no disagreement from the rest of the Cabinet.

“Good. I’ll leave the arrangements up to Defence. Now, let’s move on to the next item on our agenda.”

0845 hours GMT. Sitrep from 1 (Br) Corps to H.Q NORTHAG.
‘PRG has successfully secured Helmstedt and is now engaged in digging in, forming an all-round defence. 4 PWORY will be flown in to reinforce the PRG within the next two hours. Leading elements of 1 Arm. Div should reach Helmstedt by the early afternoon. The division will then go firm and prepare to be relieved by 3 Arm. Div, which will be prepared to continue offensive operations if necessary.
‘15 Infantry Brigade (minus 4 PWORY, 4 Green Howards & 8 LI) has been detached from 2 Inf. Div to command operations to clear out pockets of Soviet and East German troops bypassed by 1 and 4 Arm. Divs. The brigade will take command of light infantry battle groups currently attached to 1 Arm. Div.
[1]
‘4 Arm. Div has gone firm for the moment, pending resupply of forward units. Recce has suggested that a Soviet/East German counterattack will be mounted against that division in the next few hours. The divisional commander’s intention is to absorb that attack before continuing operations. A decision I have approved.’

0931 hours GMT. EPW Camp No.2, near Düsseldorf, FRG.
Finding himself slightly out of breath after climbing to the top of the guard tower, Staff Sergeant Macragge wondered if he might be getting a bit too old for ‘this sh*t’. Two reservists in their late 40s manned the tower, one armed with an L86A2 LSW, while the other had an L1A1 SLR fitted with a SUIT.

“You know how to use one of these?” He asked the two men, holding up an L1A1 Grenade Discharger.
“Yes, Staff Sergeant.” One of the men replied. “I used one in Northern Ireland often enough.”
“Good.” Macragge replied simply. “I’m going to leave this with you and send up some CS grenades. When you get the word, start hitting the prisoners with CS.”
“Got it, Staff Sergeant.”

*

By the time Macragge had climbed back down, vehicles carrying a detachment of B Company, 4th (V) Battalion, The Queen's Lancashire Regiment had arrived and was unloading its equipment. The company provided security for the nearby headquarters of British Support Command but had been able to spare a reinforced platoon of forty men to help put down the riot. He noticed that amongst the equipment being unloaded were L128A1 shotguns as well as the expected L104A1 baton guns. He remarked on it to a sergeant who was supervising the unloading.

“We managed to get some ‘beanbag’ rounds from an American MP unit.” He said, before realising that he was talking to a ‘Redcap’. “All above board and kosher, Staff Sergeant.” He added.
“Right now, I’m not too bothered where you got the rounds from, just that you’ve got them.” Macragge replied.

*

The detachment from 4 QLR had also brought two Saxon Patrol APCs. Since these vehicles were configured for riot control, they would lead the troops into the inner compound. With the arrival of 4 QLR there were now around seventy soldiers available to deal with the riot, with the addition of ten men from the GSU who were armed with either baton guns of CS dischargers. The West German water cannon would follow next, ready to help push back any rioting prisoners and start the process of knocking down the numerous fires. Other than the shotguns loaded with ‘beanbag’ rounds, no firearms would be taken into the inner compound. Although, guards outside the fence would provide cover from the towers.

*

It was time to move in, Staff Sergeant Macragge put on a respirator, bucked on his helmet, lowering the visor and picked up a riot shield. As he was a detachment commander, he had a small round shield, rather than the larger full-length ones that his ‘Redcaps’ would employ.

As the two Saxon Patrols approached the main gate, soldiers in the guard towers began to fire CS gas down into the inner compound. Prisoners who, a moment ago, had been prepared for a confrontation, were forces back from the inner of the two gates at the main entrance. The inner gate was opened, and the Saxons entered, opening their side wings to provide protection for the soldiers following up. The soldiers spread out forming a shield wall anchored on the two armoured vehicles. They paused where they were for a few moments and began to use their wooden batons, known as ‘hickory sticks’, to drum rhythmically on the backs of the riot shiels. The intention being to intimidate the prisoners with a noise that sounded like the approach of a train. Whether they would be intimidated was a question about to be answered.

1001 hours GMT. Sitrep on the situation in Thrace.
‘From: COMLANDSOUTHCENT
To: COMSOUTHEAST
CC: CINCSOUTH; SHAPE

‘The twin battles for Keşan (Turkey) and Peplos/Vrisoula (Greece) are now effectively over. Stout resistance from the defenders of the road junctions (the E84/87 and E90/E85 respectively) have prevented those locations from being overrun. While counterattacks by reserve forces have pushed the WARPACT forces back. An encounter battle between the US 28th Infantry Division (M) and Turkish 1st and 3rd Armoured Brigades of V Corps, and the Soviet Operational Manoeuvre Group advancing down the E87 resulted in a victory for our forces. V Corps has now gone firm as it resupplies.
‘While successful in defence, XI Corps has taken significant losses. Request estimate on time of arrival of reinforcements/replacements for that corps.
‘While the east-west highway has been saved from being cut by WARPACT forces, they can now directly observe the road. Allowing them to interdict it in daylight and make passage for vehicles hazardous at night. However, engineers have made good progress in starting to build a by-pass road to the south, from Feres in Greece to Bahçeköy in Turkey, linking the E85 to the E87. Maximum use of existing roads will be made, and although the road will not be up to highway standards, it will be suitable for military soft-skin vehicles and requisitioned Heavy Goods Vehicles. It is requested that any engineer, or labour units currently held in reserve be released to this command and that the local civilian authorities be required to provide any labour and engineering equipment that they can provide.’


1132 hours GMT. Wolfenbüttel, FRG.
The troop of four FV721 Foxes of B Troop, C (Fulford) Squadron, East Riding Yeomanry, cautiously approached Halchter, an outlying district of Wolfenbüttel. ‘Micks’ from A Company, 4 (V) The Royal Irish Rangers, followed equally cautiously. Their platoons and sections keeping well spread out, so that one burst of machine-gun fire, or a single mortar bomb would not cause too many casualties.

As the British troops passed an access road to Halchter, a burst of machine-gun fire and an RPG-22 rocket erupted from Wolfenbüttel itself across the open ground between the town and the road. The four Foxes popped smoke and sought shelter in the trees, some bollards placed in a side road to stop vehicular access proving little barrier to the armoured vehicles. The infantry took cover in the ditches by the side of the road. Fortunately, whoever had fired on them was not particularly skilled and there had been no British casualties.

Sergeant O’Connell cautiously poked his head above the top of the ditch he was taking shelter in, trying to get sight of who had shot at them. Only to be rewarded by nearly being hit several rifle bullets.

“Shite!” He exclaimed as he fell back into the ditch.
“You all right, Sergeant?” One of his platoon asked.
“Yeah; think someone over there has an SVD but doesn’t really know how to use it.
“Anyone got a periscope?”

None of the soldiers did.

“Shite.” O’Connell exclaimed again.

Meanwhile an LMG gunner from another platoon attempted to engage the enemy. Unfortunately, the Soviets were just beyond the effective range of the Minimi and all he did was to highlight his position. An RPG round crashed into the tree next to him, sending the Ranger crashing down into the ditch with numerous wounds from missile fragments and tree splinters.

*

“We’re pinned down.” Acting Major Steven Harker, Officer Commanding A Company, said into his radio. “They outrange most of our weapons and whenever we try and stick our heads up to engage, they hit us. We’re damn lucky they’re such bad shots, over.”
“Can the Foxes locate them, over?” Acting Lieutenant Colonel Douglas replied.
“They’ve got a fair idea, but when they’ve tried to emerge from cover to engage, they come under heavy fire. It’s just good luck that one of them hasn’t been hit by an RPG round. We really need cover from the mortars, or artillery fire. Over.”
“The MFC and an AT section is on its way to you. However, we can’t call down artillery fire until we’re sure that all, or most civilians were evacuated from the town. Over.”
“Roger that. We’ll do our best with what we have, Alpha One Actual off.”

Harker replaced the handset on the Bowman radio. He was frustrated but could understand why the C.O did not want to use heavy artillery, yet. The West Germans were getting increasingly sensitive to civilian casualties, understandably and were seeking to place restrictions on the use of heavy weapons where it could be avoided. It would reduce civilian deaths but was likely to lead to increased casualties amongst NATO troops. The Major did have an idea, however.

“Have the 51mm mortars put down smoke as close to the enemy positions as they can manage. We’ll try and work forward once there’s a decent smokescreen. The Foxes should also be able to pop out of cover. We’ll just have to hope that the enemy doesn’t have any thermal viewers.”

***

[1] Order of battle:
15th (North East) Infantry Brigade (-) (+)
- East Riding Yeomanry: FV721 Fox
- 101 (Northumberland) Field Regiment, RA (V): FH-70 (from 2 Inf Div DAG)
- 6th (V) Battalion, The Royal Regiment of Fusiliers: Light Role
- 7th (V) Battalion, The Light Infantry: Light Role
- 4th (V) Battalion, The Royal Irish Rangers (North Irish Militia): Light Role
- 4th (V) Battalion, The Royal Green Jackets: Light Role
- 5th Battalion, The Royal Anglian Regiment: Light Role
Bernard Woolley
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Accompanying Pictures

Post by Bernard Woolley »

Accompanying Pictures
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Eaglenine2
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Re: The Last War: Chapter 372.

Post by Eaglenine2 »

So interesting update.
Question what happened to the various UN peacekeeping mission?
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Re: The Last War: Chapter 372.

Post by Bernard Woolley »

The B-H one was disbanded. As was the one in southern Lebanon. Others are generally still in place.
James1978
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Re: The Last War: Chapter 372.

Post by James1978 »

Good chapter!

How are WP POWs being transported to North America?
And how are Iraqi POWs being handled?
Check your email, I sent you some stuff on EPW operations.

Keep up the good work!
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jemhouston
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Re: The Last War: Chapter 372.

Post by jemhouston »

Other considerations are trumping the purely military ones.

Both sides are adapting to the other.
James1978
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Re: The Last War: Chapter 372.

Post by James1978 »

Eaglenine2 wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2024 6:48 pm So interesting update.
Question what happened to the various UN peacekeeping mission?
Bernard Woolley wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2024 7:14 pm The B-H one was disbanded. As was the one in southern Lebanon. Others are generally still in place.
We can add the United Nations Disengagement Observer Force (Syria/Israel) in the Golan Heights to that list.

Not UN, but I'd just add that the the Multinational Force and Observers in the Sinai will be diminished with the US having pulled most of it's contribution out to reinforce the KTO.
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Re: The Last War: Chapter 372.

Post by Bernard Woolley »

James1978 wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2024 8:42 pm Good chapter!
Thanks very much.
James1978 wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2024 8:42 pmHow are WP POWs being transported to North America?
In the main they are being transported in aircraft heading back to North America that would otherwise be empty. A small percentage may be going by ship.
James1978 wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2024 8:42 pmAnd how are Iraqi POWs being handled?
I hadn’t actually thought of that. Camps in Saudi, I would guess.
James1978 wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2024 8:42 pmCheck your email, I sent you some stuff on EPW operations.
Have got it, thanks.
James1978 wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2024 8:42 pmKeep up the good work!
Will do my best!
James1978 wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2024 8:54 pm We can <Snip>
Looking at both of those missions, once the NATO and Allied nations are removed from them, they would be down to a handful of personnel. The Golan heights mission got badly hit during the Syrian attack on Israel, notably the Fijian contingent. Just thinking, the MFO would be down to Colombia, Uruguay and maybe the very small Japanese continent.

jemhouston wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2024 8:43 pmOther considerations are trumping the purely military ones.
Always the case in warfare. Wars are, after all, the continuation of warfare through other means.
Matt Wiser
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Re: The Last War: Chapter 372.

Post by Matt Wiser »

It lives! BZ as usual, my friend, and so on to business:

Combat SAR in extremis... Somebody needs to call in a strike on that downed Apache before Ivan or Fritz can recover it.

Those Canadian Hawks look like they're earning their keep. CINC-NORAD no doubt wishes they were on this side of the Pond, however.

I'd bet that it was a KGB or Stasi type that started that rumor: it would fit their style, and they would be under orders to forment this kind of trouble. FYI Iraqi EPWs are being held by the Saudis. The Red Cross in 1991 had no complaints about Coalition POW handling, whether U.S., British, other partners, or the Saudis (who assumed final responsibility for all EPWs captured by the Coalition).

The Irish are thinking like everyone else: this is going to be a long war.

At least things have...stabilized at both Helmstedt and in Thrace. For now, anyway.

Good work, and get with 373!
The difference between diplomacy and war is this: Diplomacy is the art of telling someone to go to hell so elegantly that they pack for the trip.
War is bringing hell down on that someone.
Simon Darkshade
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Re: The Last War: Chapter 372.

Post by Simon Darkshade »

I really liked the use of the Sitreps to provide the ‘big picture’ links to the overall progress of some of the fronts. They were a striking and useful feature of the early TTW chapters back from 2005.

This chapter also had an interesting throwback to some of the very early chapters of TLW in the mention of the General Service Units. The combination of these two features, whether intentional or mere coincidence, provided a pleasant nostalgia hit.
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Re: The Last War: Chapter 372.

Post by Bernard Woolley »

Matt Wiser wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 6:53 am It lives! BZ as usual, my friend, and so on to business:
Thanks very much.
Matt Wiser wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 6:53 amCombat SAR in extremis... Somebody needs to call in a strike on that downed Apache before Ivan or Fritz can recover it.
It was inspired by a RL incident in Afghanistan where Apaches were used to insert 4 Royal Marines into Jugroom Fort to try and rescue a wounded comrade. Sadly, he had already died from his wounds. However, I have read that there are attachment points on Apaches for crew harnesses. The downed Apache is already on fire, there will be very little left of it PDQ.
Matt Wiser wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 6:53 am CINC-NORAD no doubt wishes they were on this side of the Pond, however.
The Hawks of 419 Tactical Fighter Training Squadron and some from 2 Canadian Forces Flying Training School are assigned to NORAD.
Matt Wiser wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 6:53 amI'd bet that it was a KGB or Stasi type that started that rumor:
It's quite possible. It's also possible it's one of those rumours that just get started and grow with the telling - aka 'Chinese Whispers'.
Matt Wiser wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 6:53 amThe Irish are thinking like everyone else: this is going to be a long war.
The Irish Defence Force were and are in @, quite small and sparsely equipped. It's sometimes quite a sort point on both sides of the Irish Sea that they effectivley ride on the UK's coattails when it comes to a lot of defence issues.
Matt Wiser wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 6:53 am For now, anyway.
Indeed.
Matt Wiser wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 6:53 amGood work, and get with 373!
Thanks again and will do.

Simon Darkshade wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 9:49 am I really liked the use of the Sitreps to provide the ‘big picture’ links to the overall progress of some of the fronts. They were a striking and useful feature of the early TTW chapters back from 2005.
I like using them as a way of catching up on various parts of the story, without getting bogged down in a scene depicting the action.
Simon Darkshade wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 9:49 amThe combination of these two features, whether intentional or mere coincidence, provided a pleasant nostalgia hit.
I wish I was smart enough to make that intentional! :lol:
Jotun
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Re: The Last War: Chapter 372.

Post by Jotun »

Late to the party, but here‘s an idea I have.

The countries with PoWs and little room for them who send them to the USA could also send "MP" guard detachments of soldiers who were wounded to degree that they are are no longer fit for frontline duty, see WW2 for reference.
This is a bit more legal cover than just sending over a bunch of lawyers. Especially since the Bundeswehr for example does not even have a uniformed legal service. The legal counsels are all civilians, normally equivalent in pay grade to OF-4 (commander/lieutenant colonel). Then again, they usually hold the equivalent military reservist rank on out-of-area missions in @ and wear uniform.
A few companies' worth of guards should be possible.
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Re: The Last War: Chapter 372.

Post by Bernard Woolley »

Good idea, though I wanted to keep the European NATO dets as small as possible. They're only there for legal cover if there are any objection to handing the EPWs over to US, or Canadian custody. Heck, a couple of clerks and a cook could probably meet the requirement, as long as they formed a 'proper' military unit. Might be an idea to use military personnel who are not likely to regain full fitness again.
Jotun
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Re: The Last War: Chapter 372.

Post by Jotun »

Bernard Woolley wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 5:21 pm Good idea, though I wanted to keep the European NATO dets as small as possible. They're only there for legal cover if there are any objection to handing the EPWs over to US, or Canadian custody. Heck, a couple of clerks and a cook could probably meet the requirement, as long as they formed a 'proper' military unit. Might be an idea to use military personnel who are not likely to regain full fitness again.
Not too many, no. What's two companies of soldiers, airmen and sailors? 200, 300 men? Who can't fight any more? Acceptable, I think.
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Re: The Last War: Chapter 372.

Post by Bernard Woolley »

Spread them out over several camps. The actual guard manpower would come from the US and Canada.
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jemhouston
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Re: The Last War: Chapter 372.

Post by jemhouston »

How many retired Western Europe military people live in the US / Canada? If they still have their European citizenship, would they be willing to be recalled to colors for guard duty?
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Re: The Last War: Chapter 372.

Post by Bernard Woolley »

When our army was looking into the subject of reserves in the mid-1980s it considered those living abroad to be unavailable. It was pretty much impossible to trace. IMVHO, it would depend on those people volunteering. Plus, there is another thing to consider. Those resident in the US & Canada are likely to be citizens of those countries. If they’re of military age, they could end up be conscripted in the US/Canadian military. Dual citizenship tends to be ignored when it comes to conscription.
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