U.S. Small Arms Factfile

Long and short stories from the 1984 movie
Johnnie Lyle
Posts: 2902
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:27 pm

Re: U.S. Small Arms Factfile

Post by Johnnie Lyle »

Belushi TD wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:45 am
Poohbah wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 4:49 am The Marines used the Knight's Armament Company Masterkey--it was a cut-down M870 that could be fitted under the barrel of an M16. Useful for breaching, but it could be a tad clumsy at times. Usually loaded with frangible breaching rounds. We first got the things in late 1986, and they made CQB go a lot quicker.

And then some lunatic invented Dragon's Breath rounds...if there's a better way to get the enemy out of a room than lighting the entire damn place on fire, I don't know what it is.
I would submit a 9 gun salvo from an Iowa class as a better way.

With one radio call, you not only get the enemy out of the room they're in, you also get them out of the next room, and the next room, and the next building, and, in fact, the entire block.

Admittedly, from your wartime service, you were a little far from the coast to be able to benefit from that.

Belushi TD
Unnecessary damage to public goods and property.

Use phosgene or the neutron bomb.
Wolfman
Posts: 918
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2022 4:03 pm
Location: LCS-3, BB-35, CGN-39, SSN-775

Re: U.S. Small Arms Factfile

Post by Wolfman »

Thermonuclear weapons require the assent of the National Command Authority…
“For a brick, he flew pretty good!” Sgt. Major A.J. Johnson, Halo 2

To err is human; to forgive is not SAC policy.

“This is Raven 2-5. This is my sandbox. You will not drop, acknowledge.” David Flanagan, former Raven FAC
User avatar
jemhouston
Posts: 4237
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:38 am

Re: U.S. Small Arms Factfile

Post by jemhouston »

Belushi TD wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:45 am

I would submit a 9 gun salvo from an Iowa class as a better way.

With one radio call, you not only get the enemy out of the room they're in, you also get them out of the next room, and the next room, and the next building, and, in fact, the entire block.

Admittedly, from your wartime service, you were a little far from the coast to be able to benefit from that.

Belushi TD

I always knew you were a person of taste and refinement.
Johnnie Lyle
Posts: 2902
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:27 pm

Re: U.S. Small Arms Factfile

Post by Johnnie Lyle »

Wolfman wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2023 1:14 am Thermonuclear weapons require the assent of the National Command Authority…
Again, overkill. I just want the death without all the fuss and bother of ruining potentially useful stuff.
Wolfman
Posts: 918
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2022 4:03 pm
Location: LCS-3, BB-35, CGN-39, SSN-775

Re: U.S. Small Arms Factfile

Post by Wolfman »

Johnnie Lyle wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2023 2:12 am
Wolfman wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2023 1:14 am Thermonuclear weapons require the assent of the National Command Authority…
Again, overkill. I just want the death without all the fuss and bother of ruining potentially useful stuff.
A neutron bomb is a low yield thermonuclear weapon, ergo, it requires the assent of the NCA to use…
“For a brick, he flew pretty good!” Sgt. Major A.J. Johnson, Halo 2

To err is human; to forgive is not SAC policy.

“This is Raven 2-5. This is my sandbox. You will not drop, acknowledge.” David Flanagan, former Raven FAC
Johnnie Lyle
Posts: 2902
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:27 pm

Re: U.S. Small Arms Factfile

Post by Johnnie Lyle »

Wolfman wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2023 3:52 am
Johnnie Lyle wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2023 2:12 am
Wolfman wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2023 1:14 am Thermonuclear weapons require the assent of the National Command Authority…
Again, overkill. I just want the death without all the fuss and bother of ruining potentially useful stuff.
A neutron bomb is a low yield thermonuclear weapon, ergo, it requires the assent of the NCA to use…
Hence the phosgene.
clancyphile
Posts: 476
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:28 am

Re: U.S. Small Arms Factfile

Post by clancyphile »

Poohbah wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 4:49 am The Marines used the Knight's Armament Company Masterkey--it was a cut-down M870 that could be fitted under the barrel of an M16. Useful for breaching, but it could be a tad clumsy at times. Usually loaded with frangible breaching rounds. We first got the things in late 1986, and they made CQB go a lot quicker.

And then some lunatic invented Dragon's Breath rounds...if there's a better way to get the enemy out of a room than lighting the entire damn place on fire, I don't know what it is.
Interesting implications for fire-team construction.
1 M249
1 M16 w/Masterkey
1 M16
1 M16 w/M203
Poohbah
Posts: 2659
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:08 pm
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: U.S. Small Arms Factfile

Post by Poohbah »

clancyphile wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2023 6:44 pm
Poohbah wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 4:49 am The Marines used the Knight's Armament Company Masterkey--it was a cut-down M870 that could be fitted under the barrel of an M16. Useful for breaching, but it could be a tad clumsy at times. Usually loaded with frangible breaching rounds. We first got the things in late 1986, and they made CQB go a lot quicker.

And then some lunatic invented Dragon's Breath rounds...if there's a better way to get the enemy out of a room than lighting the entire damn place on fire, I don't know what it is.
Interesting implications for fire-team construction.
1 M249
1 M16 w/Masterkey
1 M16
1 M16 w/M203
At first it was one per squad, with the idea being that one fireteam got the Masterkey, one got an M16A2 HBAR with the carrying handle cut down and a 3x9 ART scope mounted for the DMR role, and one got an HBAR with the carrying handle and with the burst cam removed for full auto. The idea may have been good. That said, Sweet Baby Jeebus, the execution was an absolute Charlie-Fox. We eventually had one guy with a Masterkey per fire team, and one DMR per squad.
TheMann
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2024 4:52 am

Re: U.S. Small Arms Factfile

Post by TheMann »

Poohbah wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 4:49 am And then some lunatic invented Dragon's Breath rounds...if there's a better way to get the enemy out of a room than lighting the entire damn place on fire, I don't know what it is.
I say Dragon's Breath being used by a resistance guy from a Remington 1100 once during my longer E&E....once was enough. The shooter caught actually caught a KGB fuckwit with most of a load of one....I can still smell the result the best part of forty years later. Burnt chekist doesn't smell too nice, trust me.
Poohbah
Posts: 2659
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:08 pm
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: U.S. Small Arms Factfile

Post by Poohbah »

TheMann wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2024 4:19 am
Poohbah wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 4:49 am And then some lunatic invented Dragon's Breath rounds...if there's a better way to get the enemy out of a room than lighting the entire damn place on fire, I don't know what it is.
I say Dragon's Breath being used by a resistance guy from a Remington 1100 once during my longer E&E....once was enough. The shooter caught actually caught a KGB fuckwit with most of a load of one....I can still smell the result the best part of forty years later. Burnt chekist doesn't smell too nice, trust me.
BMP-1 had a fuel tank in the rear hatch. An M72 or an AT4 would blow clean through the armor, the fuel tank, and inject burning diesel into the troop compartment.

We called it grunt in a can, heat and serve.
TheMann
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2024 4:52 am

Re: U.S. Small Arms Factfile

Post by TheMann »

Poohbah wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2024 6:06 am
TheMann wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2024 4:19 am
Poohbah wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 4:49 am And then some lunatic invented Dragon's Breath rounds...if there's a better way to get the enemy out of a room than lighting the entire damn place on fire, I don't know what it is.
I say Dragon's Breath being used by a resistance guy from a Remington 1100 once during my longer E&E....once was enough. The shooter caught actually caught a KGB fuckwit with most of a load of one....I can still smell the result the best part of forty years later. Burnt chekist doesn't smell too nice, trust me.
BMP-1 had a fuel tank in the rear hatch. An M72 or an AT4 would blow clean through the armor, the fuel tank, and inject burning diesel into the troop compartment.

We called it grunt in a can, heat and serve.
Grunt in a can, nice. I knew the BMP-1 was a deathtrap, but a fuel tank in the rear hatch? It's not like we didn't all know their APCs were complete shit (got a BTR-60 myself on that same E&E, courtesy of a M79 with an HEDP round - shot it right through the commander's window in the front) but bloody hell, that's a bit of an oversight, isn't it?
Jotun
Posts: 978
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:27 pm
Location: Ze Bocage Mudflats

Re: U.S. Small Arms Factfile

Post by Jotun »

TheMann wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2024 6:50 am
Poohbah wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2024 6:06 am
TheMann wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2024 4:19 am

I say Dragon's Breath being used by a resistance guy from a Remington 1100 once during my longer E&E....once was enough. The shooter caught actually caught a KGB fuckwit with most of a load of one....I can still smell the result the best part of forty years later. Burnt chekist doesn't smell too nice, trust me.
BMP-1 had a fuel tank in the rear hatch. An M72 or an AT4 would blow clean through the armor, the fuel tank, and inject burning diesel into the troop compartment.

We called it grunt in a can, heat and serve.
Grunt in a can, nice. I knew the BMP-1 was a deathtrap, but a fuel tank in the rear hatch? It's not like we didn't all know their APCs were complete shit (got a BTR-60 myself on that same E&E, courtesy of a M79 with an HEDP round - shot it right through the commander's window in the front) but bloody hell, that's a bit of an oversight, isn't it?
The sad truth is that crew survivability isn‘t even a criterion.
User avatar
jemhouston
Posts: 4237
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:38 am

Re: U.S. Small Arms Factfile

Post by jemhouston »

The Russian motto, "We have reserves." Until they don't.
TheMann
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2024 4:52 am

Re: U.S. Small Arms Factfile

Post by TheMann »

jemhouston wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2024 11:29 am The Russian motto, "We have reserves." Until they don't.
If the War was any indication their reserves are fucking dogshit half the time in any case.
Post Reply