Leo2 upgrade for Sweden

[Micael]

There’s essentially three tracks running as far as the Swedish tank fleet goes, as I’ve understand it. New builds of existing design to replace those donated to Ukraine and boost numbers. New model tank after 2030. And, this:

FMV signs contract for extensive upgrade of tank 122
On behalf of the Swedish Armed Forces, FMV has signed a contract with KMW worth approximately SEK 3.5 billion. This is to begin the most extensive upgrade of tank 122 since the tanks were acquired in the early 2000s. The contract includes renovation and modification of 44 wagons.

- Tanks will be the backbone of the army's brigades for a long time to come, that is a conclusion we can draw from the ongoing war in Ukraine. The order we are now placing with KMW means a considerable modernization of our tank fleet and extends the life of the tanks at least into the 2030s, says Jonas Lotsne, head FMV operational area army materiel.

The upgrade includes, among other things, the replacement of basically all electronic components in the carriage so that the system is in line with other modern Leopard 2s, a new cannon in caliber L55 with a greater possibility of programming ammunition, new night sights for the gunner and carriage commander as well as a dark driving camera for the driver and finally a new track unit, including tracks.

Deliveries to the Armed Forces will take place starting in 2026. The wagons will be called tank 123A.

[Jotun]

There’s essentially three tracks running as far as the Swedish tank fleet goes, as I’ve understand it. New builds of existing design to replace those donated to Ukraine and boost numbers. New model tank after 2030. And, this:

FMV signs contract for extensive upgrade of tank 122
On behalf of the Swedish Armed Forces, FMV has signed a contract with KMW worth approximately SEK 3.5 billion. This is to begin the most extensive upgrade of tank 122 since the tanks were acquired in the early 2000s. The contract includes renovation and modification of 44 wagons.

- Tanks will be the backbone of the army's brigades for a long time to come, that is a conclusion we can draw from the ongoing war in Ukraine. The order we are now placing with KMW means a considerable modernization of our tank fleet and extends the life of the tanks at least into the 2030s, says Jonas Lotsne, head FMV operational area army materiel.

The upgrade includes, among other things, the replacement of basically all electronic components in the carriage so that the system is in line with other modern Leopard 2s, a new cannon in caliber L55 with a greater possibility of programming ammunition, new night sights for the gunner and carriage commander as well as a dark driving camera for the driver and finally a new track unit, including tracks.

Deliveries to the Armed Forces will take place starting in 2026. The wagons will be called tank 123A.

Online translation?

Sounds like A7/A8ish...

[Micael]

There’s essentially three tracks running as far as the Swedish tank fleet goes, as I’ve understand it. New builds of existing design to replace those donated to Ukraine and boost numbers. New model tank after 2030. And, this:

FMV signs contract for extensive upgrade of tank 122
On behalf of the Swedish Armed Forces, FMV has signed a contract with KMW worth approximately SEK 3.5 billion. This is to begin the most extensive upgrade of tank 122 since the tanks were acquired in the early 2000s. The contract includes renovation and modification of 44 wagons.

- Tanks will be the backbone of the army's brigades for a long time to come, that is a conclusion we can draw from the ongoing war in Ukraine. The order we are now placing with KMW means a considerable modernization of our tank fleet and extends the life of the tanks at least into the 2030s, says Jonas Lotsne, head FMV operational area army materiel.

The upgrade includes, among other things, the replacement of basically all electronic components in the carriage so that the system is in line with other modern Leopard 2s, a new cannon in caliber L55 with a greater possibility of programming ammunition, new night sights for the gunner and carriage commander as well as a dark driving camera for the driver and finally a new track unit, including tracks.

Deliveries to the Armed Forces will take place starting in 2026. The wagons will be called tank 123A.

Online translation?

Sounds like A7/A8ish...

Yep. Bit hit and miss and I didn’t have time to spruce it up when I posted.
The Swedish word for tank is ”stridsvagn” (like ”Streitwagen” if that is somehow a real word in German) which was originally the word for ”chariot” and then repurposed for tanks, but it literally means ”combat wagon” so when it’s shortened to ”vagn” the translator will spit out ”wagon.”

Probably an A7/A8 kind of deal, yeah.

[Jotun]

There’s essentially three tracks running as far as the Swedish tank fleet goes, as I’ve understand it. New builds of existing design to replace those donated to Ukraine and boost numbers. New model tank after 2030. And, this:

Online translation?

Sounds like A7/A8ish...

Yep. Bit hit and miss and I didn’t have time to spruce it up when I posted.
The Swedish word for tank is ”stridsvagn” (like ”Streitwagen” if that is somehow a real word in German) which was originally the word for ”chariot” and then repurposed for tanks, but it literally means ”combat wagon” so when it’s shortened to ”vagn” the translator will spit out ”wagon.”

Probably an A7/A8 kind of deal, yeah.

Streitwagen is correct for chariot, and incidentally, "Merkava" also means chariot/stridsvagn/Streitwagen....

[Johnnie Lyle]

So not going with the 130mm? And shouldn’t it be a 135mm to keep the pattern of 15mm increases in bore diameter?

[Bernard Woolley]

So not going with the 130mm? And shouldn’t it be a 135mm to keep the pattern of 15mm increases in bore diameter?

AFAIK, 120mm is as about as large as a human loader can comfortably manage. Going for the L55 120mm is a good idea. It looks like it’s going to be the standard tank gun for most of NATO in the future.

[Micael]

So not going with the 130mm? And shouldn’t it be a 135mm to keep the pattern of 15mm increases in bore diameter?

Not for this upgrade at least, don’t know the reasoning behind it. Saw a comment from a tanker that the smart programmable munition is a bigger deal than the caliber change is.

[Micael]

Online translation?

Sounds like A7/A8ish...

Yep. Bit hit and miss and I didn’t have time to spruce it up when I posted.
The Swedish word for tank is ”stridsvagn” (like ”Streitwagen” if that is somehow a real word in German) which was originally the word for ”chariot” and then repurposed for tanks, but it literally means ”combat wagon” so when it’s shortened to ”vagn” the translator will spit out ”wagon.”

Probably an A7/A8 kind of deal, yeah.

Streitwagen is correct for chariot, and incidentally, "Merkava" also means chariot/stridsvagn/Streitwagen....

Ah yes, remember that about Merkava now that you said it.

Incidentally this demonstrated somewhat that it is possible to guess composite words in German with a fairly good chance of success if you know Swedish and the German base words that make it up. I presume it would be the same the other way around. (Oh and presumably we stole the word from middle German as is the case usually.)

[Jotun]

Yep. Bit hit and miss and I didn’t have time to spruce it up when I posted.
The Swedish word for tank is ”stridsvagn” (like ”Streitwagen” if that is somehow a real word in German) which was originally the word for ”chariot” and then repurposed for tanks, but it literally means ”combat wagon” so when it’s shortened to ”vagn” the translator will spit out ”wagon.”

Probably an A7/A8 kind of deal, yeah.

Streitwagen is correct for chariot, and incidentally, "Merkava" also means chariot/stridsvagn/Streitwagen....

Ah yes, remember that about Merkava now that you said it.

Incidentally this demonstrated somewhat that it is possible to guess composite words in German with a fairly good chance of success if you know Swedish and the German base words that make it up. I presume it would be the same the other way around. (Oh and presumably we stole the word from middle German as is the case usually.)

Usually, I get by in Scandinavia by reading signs and my feel for languages. It‘s when I hear you guys talking that I am lost. Danish sounds to me like the speaker uses a mix between Plattdeutsch and English with a hot potato in their mouth, and I understand jack shit. Norwegian and Swedish are only marginally better
But yeah, Middle High German and Platt (which was the lingua franca of the Hanse) help^^

[Micael]

Streitwagen is correct for chariot, and incidentally, "Merkava" also means chariot/stridsvagn/Streitwagen....

Ah yes, remember that about Merkava now that you said it.

Incidentally this demonstrated somewhat that it is possible to guess composite words in German with a fairly good chance of success if you know Swedish and the German base words that make it up. I presume it would be the same the other way around. (Oh and presumably we stole the word from middle German as is the case usually.)

Usually, I get by in Scandinavia by reading signs and my feel for languages. It‘s when I hear you guys talking that I am lost. Danish sounds to me like the speaker uses a mix between Plattdeutsch and English with a hot potato in their mouth, and I understand jack shit. Norwegian and Swedish are only marginally better
But yeah, Middle High German and Platt (which was the lingua franca of the Hanse) help^^

Yeah it tends to be easier when reading something than when hearing it spoken. Then you have the time to make some guesses as to what things mean as well. There are some tricks with regards to the relationship between Swedish and German that helps a bit, such that Swedish words that end with -het usually have a cognate in German that ends in -keit. Like mänsklighet - menschlichkeit. That helps with remembering the word once you’ve first figured it out. But the bulk of Swedish words that were loaned from German were loaned hundreds of years ago so there’s been a divergence in both languages away from the original version.

As for the pronounciation and such, Danish is challenging for Swedes and Norwegians as well until there’s been sufficient exposure to it. Swedish and Norwegian obviously differ in pronounciation from German quite a bit, but my experience is that Germans seems to be able to figure out the lanaguages relatively easy once they’ve figured out that pronounciation bit.

[Micael]

Replacement acquisition for donated CV90s also appeared:

Preliminary design for replacement procurement of combat vehicles
FMV has signed a contract with BAE Systems Hägglunds AB to carry out a preliminary design regarding replacement procurement of combat vehicles. The value of the contract is SEK 36 million.

Combat vehicle 90. Photo: Mats Carlsson/Försvarsmakten
COMBAT VEHICLE 90. PHOTO: MATS CARLSSON/FÖRSVARSMAKTEN

The contract is a first step in defining the configuration and program for the combat vehicles that will replace the type 9040C combat vehicles that Sweden donated to Ukraine. The goal is for the preliminary design to be completed in time to be able to place a series order of the so-called CV9035 MkIIIC early in 2024.

The preliminary planning enables planning of future production and that orders can be placed for certain components and materials with long lead times. The preparations for future production can thus be done in parallel with the final negotiations on the contract for new combat vehicles.

- Now it is important to gain time and this assignment paves the way for starting production as soon as we sign a final procurement agreement. It is a prerequisite for replacing materiel donated to Ukraine and regaining the ability of the army's war organization as quickly as possible, says Jonas Lotsne, head of army materiel FMV.

[Zen9]

Streitwagen is correct for chariot, and incidentally, "Merkava" also means chariot/stridsvagn/Streitwagen....

Ah yes, remember that about Merkava now that you said it.

Incidentally this demonstrated somewhat that it is possible to guess composite words in German with a fairly good chance of success if you know Swedish and the German base words that make it up. I presume it would be the same the other way around. (Oh and presumably we stole the word from middle German as is the case usually.)

Usually, I get by in Scandinavia by reading signs and my feel for languages. It‘s when I hear you guys talking that I am lost. Danish sounds to me like the speaker uses a mix between Plattdeutsch and English with a hot potato in their mouth, and I understand jack shit. Norwegian and Swedish are only marginally better
But yeah, Middle High German and Platt (which was the lingua franca of the Hanse) help^^

Ahhh Danish...!
I remember first hearing it and thinking "where's the endings?" followed by "it's sort of cockney Swedish with the odd bit of German ", only outdone for native English speakers on the scale of 'I ought to know this' by Dutch.


Swedish on the other hand comes across as quite clear and harmonious.

Closest English for 'stridsvagn' now would be 'strifewagon' or 'strifewain'.

[pandion]

Closest English for 'stridsvagn' now would be 'strifewagon' or 'strifewain'.

My perhaps flawed understanding of the meaning of "strife" is a fairly low-level conflict, not necessarily involving physical violence with weapons.
You can have strife within an extended family.

"Combat" to me is war fighting, pure and simple.

"Stridsvagn" should therefore, if necessary, be translated as "Combat wagon"

The CV90 IFV has a Swedish designation of "Stridsfordon90", which in English comes out as "Combat vehicle".
"Fordon" in Swedish means any kind of mobile self-propelled contraption for the movement of people and stores.
(Two/three-wheelers may be a special case legally)

[Zen9]

Now just from dodgy memory....

'Strife' is more like 'struggle' as in you 'strive' to achieve something.

'Stride' does exist in English and is present in Old English, but that meaning isn't much used, outside maybe a dialect.

[Jotun]

Closest English for 'stridsvagn' now would be 'strifewagon' or 'strifewain'.

My perhaps flawed understanding of the meaning of "strife" is a fairly low-level conflict, not necessarily involving physical violence with weapons.
You can have strife within an extended family.

"Combat" to me is war fighting, pure and simple.

"Stridsvagn" should therefore, if necessary, be translated as "Combat wagon"

The CV90 IFV has a Swedish designation of "Stridsfordon90", which in English comes out as "Combat vehicle".
"Fordon" in Swedish means any kind of mobile self-propelled contraption for the movement of people and stores.
(Two/three-wheelers may be a special case legally)

Streit/strid is archaic German/Swedish for "combat". The German term for "armed forces" is actually "Streitkräfte". Combat forces. Another example, the sengoku period in Japan, known as time/period of the warring states in English is known as "Zeit der streitenden Reiche" in German.

[Johnnie Lyle]

So why does panzerkampfwagen use kampf and not striet? Or was “combat” an alternate meaning to “struggle” for kampf in 1930s German?

[Jotun]

So why does panzerkampfwagen use kampf and not striet? Or was “combat” an alternate meaning to “struggle” for kampf in 1930s German?

Modern times, I guess. And German technical jargon. It is armored, it fights and it is a vehicle. Panzerkampfwagen. Bingo.

[Craiglxviii]

So why does panzerkampfwagen use kampf and not striet? Or was “combat” an alternate meaning to “struggle” for kampf in 1930s German?

Just reading that makes me reach for the PIAT

[Johnnie Lyle]

So why does panzerkampfwagen use kampf and not striet? Or was “combat” an alternate meaning to “struggle” for kampf in 1930s German?

Just reading that makes me reach for the PIAT

No Boys ATR?

[Craiglxviii]

So why does panzerkampfwagen use kampf and not striet? Or was “combat” an alternate meaning to “struggle” for kampf in 1930s German?

Just reading that makes me reach for the PIAT

No Boys ATR?

I’m all about close combat tonight