General Discussion Thread

[Matt Wiser]

This thread is reserved for general discussion of events in the RD+20 universe, including events before, during, and after the war, how your character is doing ITTL, etc. Please keep OOC comments to that separate thread.

[Wolfman]

Texas Raiders (N7227C) and a Kingcobra were lost in a midair last weekend with no survivors. How the heck did that old bird escape Houston to begin with?

[jemhouston]

They left the afternoon of Day 1. Someone at CAF decided to order anything not nailed down was to get out of Dodge. In a few cases, mostly fighters "found" some M2 and did attack the Russians before they got out or got shot down. By Day 3, CAF equipment was either gone or going up in smoke.

By Day 3, the FAA / DOD told all Civil Aircraft were to get out of Texas, New Mexico, and Oklahoma. Medivac copters resisted until a half dozen were shot down. Sam with Law Enforcement, but after Texas Highway Patrol lost more, they were pulled out. I think a lot of them supported KC and NYC efforts.

[Poohbah]

Story I heard was they started putting her back together on Day One (she was getting refitted to full B-17G interior configuration) and they flew her out as a medevac flight to Austin, then she carried some crucial state government records (rumor has it she had the files on all of the judges appointed to ride circuit under occupation) from Austin to Oklahoma, eventually up to Grand Island, where the Texas Government in Exile had set up shop. She was actually a static display in front of the TGiE building for about a year, then she was used for War Bond campaigns here and there across America.

[Wolfman]

Poohbah, her being under restoration when the war kicked off matches with what I know about her, but the rest of the story is shrouded in mystery. Suffice it to say, she, Diamond Lil’, and Fifi all somehow made it out of Texas. I’ve heard that they rendezvoused in the Oklahoma panhandle and turned southwest from there towards Arizona, finally bedding down with the Arizona Wing of the CAF for the duration between war bond tours.

[Poohbah]

Poohbah, her being under restoration when the war kicked off matches with what I know about her, but the rest of the story is shrouded in mystery. Suffice it to say, she, Diamond Lil’, and Fifi all somehow made it out of Texas. I’ve heard that they rendezvoused in the Oklahoma panhandle and turned southwest from there towards Arizona, finally bedding down with the Arizona Wing of the CAF for the duration between war bond tours.

Like I said, the version I heard includes a classified mission in there on behalf of the State of Texas. Maybe that's some of the mystery. The state still refuses to release all of the info on state-sponsored resistance, including Texas Ranger operations and any support they gave to judges riding circuit.

She deserved better, that's for sure.

[Wolfman]

OOC/IC: Go watch the video. While it will be months before the NTSB releases the final report, the video certainly implies that it’s the fault of the Kingcobra pilot. I certainly agree that she didn’t deserve this. Davy Jones (or his equivalent in the skies) called her home.

[jemhouston]

Poohbah, her being under restoration when the war kicked off matches with what I know about her, but the rest of the story is shrouded in mystery. Suffice it to say, she, Diamond Lil’, and Fifi all somehow made it out of Texas. I’ve heard that they rendezvoused in the Oklahoma panhandle and turned southwest from there towards Arizona, finally bedding down with the Arizona Wing of the CAF for the duration between war bond tours.

Like I said, the version I heard includes a classified mission in there on behalf of the State of Texas. Maybe that's some of the mystery. The state still refuses to release all of the info on state-sponsored resistance, including Texas Ranger operations and any support they gave to judges riding circuit.

She deserved better, that's for sure.

They may not be able to. Rumor has it at least some of the records were destroyed post war. I'm not sure why, at least one circuit judge wrote a book on the subject. Every Judge was given a copy of their orders to operate. In some cases, they were dual tasked with Federal authority.

I thought the book's title was, "Even in War, the Law is Heard," but Amazon didn't have it.

[Wolfman]

Has anyone tried using the FOIA on this?

[jemhouston]

Houston Chronicle for one. That's how the destruction came to light. Problem is any paperwork ordering the destruction is gone.

Part of it may have been destroyed in the run up to the Battle of Wichita. There was some question if the US Army could hold the Russians and they didn't want them falling into enemy hands.

[Poohbah]

Poohbah, her being under restoration when the war kicked off matches with what I know about her, but the rest of the story is shrouded in mystery. Suffice it to say, she, Diamond Lil’, and Fifi all somehow made it out of Texas. I’ve heard that they rendezvoused in the Oklahoma panhandle and turned southwest from there towards Arizona, finally bedding down with the Arizona Wing of the CAF for the duration between war bond tours.

Like I said, the version I heard includes a classified mission in there on behalf of the State of Texas. Maybe that's some of the mystery. The state still refuses to release all of the info on state-sponsored resistance, including Texas Ranger operations and any support they gave to judges riding circuit.

She deserved better, that's for sure.

They may not be able to. Rumor has it at least some of the records were destroyed post war. I'm not sure why, at least one circuit judge wrote a book on the subject. Every Judge was given a copy of their orders to operate. In some cases, they were dual tasked with Federal authority.

I thought the book's title was, "Even in War, the Law is Heard," but Amazon didn't have it.

The best memoir by a circuit judge was The Majesty of the Law: Riding Circuit in Occupied Texas by Rebecca Malkus. She rode circuit in Scurry County from 1985 to 1988. The biggest thing she ever did was conduct a trial of a KGB officer accused of rape and murder--of a Soviet Komandantura clerk! She made sure that they found his body, and that there was a complete transcript of the trial, showing that he'd been vigorously defended by a competent attorney and had been afforded all elements of due process as required under the laws of Texas...including the appellate phase; another circuit judge reviewed the proceedings.

That move ended up gutting Soviet authority in Scurry County--even in the eyes of the military government. It showed them that they'd never be legitimate, no matter how many people they shot.

[Wolfman]

Houston Chronicle for one. That's how the destruction came to light. Problem is any paperwork ordering the destruction is gone.

Part of it may have been destroyed in the run up to the Battle of Wichita. There was some question if the US Army could hold the Russians and they didn't want them falling into enemy hands.

That’s a problem, then.

[Kendog52361]

The best memoir by a circuit judge was The Majesty of the Law: Riding Circuit in Occupied Texas by Rebecca Malkus. She rode circuit in Scurry County from 1985 to 1988. The biggest thing she ever did was conduct a trial of a KGB officer accused of rape and murder--of a Soviet Komandantura clerk! She made sure that they found his body, and that there was a complete transcript of the trial, showing that he'd been vigorously defended by a competent attorney and had been afforded all elements of due process as required under the laws of Texas...including the appellate phase; another circuit judge reviewed the proceedings.

That move ended up gutting Soviet authority in Scurry County--even in the eyes of the military government. It showed them that they'd never be legitimate, no matter how many people they shot.

While I can understand the Soviet Military Authority being "upset" over being shown up/exposed as not having any "real legitimacy" there, did they give any kind of unofficial "attaboy"? I mean, the "local authorities" both punished a KGB Officer, and also got justice for one of their own who that KGB Officer had raped and killed. Maybe after the war, some of them went back and thanked her for getting justice for the clerk, from the KGB Officer who raped and killed her (I'm assuming it was a her).

[Poohbah]

The best memoir by a circuit judge was The Majesty of the Law: Riding Circuit in Occupied Texas by Rebecca Malkus. She rode circuit in Scurry County from 1985 to 1988. The biggest thing she ever did was conduct a trial of a KGB officer accused of rape and murder--of a Soviet Komandantura clerk! She made sure that they found his body, and that there was a complete transcript of the trial, showing that he'd been vigorously defended by a competent attorney and had been afforded all elements of due process as required under the laws of Texas...including the appellate phase; another circuit judge reviewed the proceedings.

That move ended up gutting Soviet authority in Scurry County--even in the eyes of the military government. It showed them that they'd never be legitimate, no matter how many people they shot.

While I can understand the Soviet Military Authority being "upset" over being shown up/exposed as not having any "real legitimacy" there, did they give any kind of unofficial "attaboy"? I mean, the "local authorities" both punished a KGB Officer, and also got justice for one of their own who that KGB Officer had raped and killed. Maybe after the war, some of them went back and thanked her for getting justice for the clerk, from the KGB Officer who raped and killed her (I'm assuming it was a her).

What it did was eat away at the sense of mission. Eventually, they stopped even trying to pretend they were in charge. Six months after Yevgeni Rozhenko faced a firing squad, 40th Mech arrived, figuring there'd be a fight.

There wasn't. The military government surrendered without firing a shot. After the war...the entire Komandantura went 4410, and a lot of them ended up settling in the region.

Ludmilla Rayanova is interred in a local cemetery, and there is a memorial plaque detailing the basic facts at the spot where they found her body.

[Johnnie Lyle]

Houston Chronicle for one. That's how the destruction came to light. Problem is any paperwork ordering the destruction is gone.

Part of it may have been destroyed in the run up to the Battle of Wichita. There was some question if the US Army could hold the Russians and they didn't want them falling into enemy hands.

That’s a problem, then.

It may not have been malicious or intentional. Seen lots of government documents destroyed because they were “old,” for various reasons - especially if they thought copies were stored elsewhere or space was tight.

We’re still dealing with that now, where state wants us to destroy deidentified hospital data after ten years, for stupid, bureaucratic unthinking reasons.

[Matt Wiser]

Has anyone tried using the FOIA on this?

Someone with the coin and a lawyer skilled in FOIA cases should definitely give it a try.

It should be pointed out that the Collings Foundation has two B-17s under restoration. One was on a range at NAS Fallon (and forgotten by the Navy for many years), the other at a gas station somewhere in Arizona if memory serves.

A LOT of warbirds did war bond tours during those years: We had both a B-24 and Fifi come over on separate occasions while the 335th was at Williams.

Don Van Loan, Kara, Kelly, and I have watched the collision footage. That midair should NOT have happened, and we've been shaking our heads.

[Wolfman]

Amen, Matt.

[Poohbah]

Amen, Matt.

My son the fighter pilot is guessing that the Kingcobra driver misjudged his angle-off and turn rate prior to starting his turn and it happened too fast for anyone to give a usable warning.

[Wolfman]

That’s what my aide, a Super Hornet driver, is telling me.

Matt, that Fortress found on the Fallon range is a PB-1W…

[clancyphile]

The best memoir by a circuit judge was The Majesty of the Law: Riding Circuit in Occupied Texas by Rebecca Malkus. She rode circuit in Scurry County from 1985 to 1988. The biggest thing she ever did was conduct a trial of a KGB officer accused of rape and murder--of a Soviet Komandantura clerk! She made sure that they found his body, and that there was a complete transcript of the trial, showing that he'd been vigorously defended by a competent attorney and had been afforded all elements of due process as required under the laws of Texas...including the appellate phase; another circuit judge reviewed the proceedings.

That move ended up gutting Soviet authority in Scurry County--even in the eyes of the military government. It showed them that they'd never be legitimate, no matter how many people they shot.

Texas certainly had one of the most effective resistance movements. How did they pull something like that trial off without being caught?