General Discussion Thread

[Poohbah]

Arius?

Legend has it that Saint Nicholas RKO'd Arius over the latter's heresy at the Council of Nicea.

[Wolfman]

Merry Christmas, everyone!

[Matt Wiser]

Merry Christmas, and have a Phablously Phantastic Holiday Season!

[Poohbah]

Well, we attended the Christmas Eve service at Krista and Brian's church in Boise.

Tonight is the 30th anniversary of my asking Roberta to marry me, and we recreated the moment for Krista, Brian, and the grandkids.

(There wasn't as much snow on the ground in San Diego in 1992. Fancy that.)

Now, in the hotel room . . . Roberta is bringing up her "Winter Romance" playlist and signaling for me to get onto the dance floor.

I am truly blessed. Merry Christmas, one and all.

[Sukhoiman]

Merry Christmas everybuddy.

[Poohbah]

Well, Cindy Mantell (Tiff's wife and my daughter-in-law) was in an officer-involved shooting this morning near Colorado Springs.

She was taking her meal break at zero-dark-thirty when a very spiffy Ferrari 812 rolled up at truck stop diner. Only idiots drive high-end sports cars on Colorado highways in winter (leaving aside the odds of getting high-centered, the salt will corrode your supercar into junk faster than you'd believe possible). So she calls in the plate while he's in the john; it's stolen. She requests backup . . . just as the driver comes out of the men's room with a 12-gauge, fires one shot into the ceiling, and announces that this is a stickup.

She in turn draws, and announces, "COLORADO STATE PATROL, DROP THE WEAPON AND PUT YOUR HANDS UP!"

He tried to get the gun onto Cindy when she had him cold. Very bad move! She fired three shots, he goes down, she moves in, kicks away the shotgun, cuffs him, and then starts rendering first aid. Suspect is now in stable condition in the hospital, and Cindy's on administrative leave while they run the shooting investigation.

Shootee has a LOT of priors in multiple states, and multiple outstanding warrants for violent felonies--he apparently never got the coveted "plays well with others" grade in elementary school . . . probably will have multiple DAs arguing about what the order is for getting this SOB tried.

I spoke to her on the phone from Grand Targhee this evening. She's holding up OK; her old FTO is coaching her through her stress period, and Tiff is telling her, "You did it exactly right." The surveillance camera footage from the truck stop diner is on the Denver/Colorado Springs TV stations, it's on YouTube, and Roberta insisted that we watch it.

I can face having to draw down on a bad guy with a certain degree of equanimity. It's a whole 'nother story when it's someone I love having to do it. But Cindy is a champ. I watched that video five times, and I can't identify anything that she could've done better.

Rumor has it Donut Operator is going to do his next video analyzing this as soon as the bodycam footage is released.

[Matt Wiser]

Good shooting!

One of Kelly Ray's watch commanders had a favorite phrase for situations like this where the outlaw fails to listen to law enforcement and winds up getting shot: "They never listen."

As for running for Bannock County Sheriff in '24? Kelly told me she's 99% certain that she's going to run. Her likely opponent is not very regarded in law enforcement circles, and even the County Chamber of Commerce has a loathing for the guy. The guy claims to have a pretty good war record, but the way he hems and haws about it when it's come up on the news? Watch for some folks to do some digging.

[Johnnie Lyle]

It’s always a million times harder when it’s somebody you love or somebody you’re responsible for in danger, rather than yourself.

That’s the sucky part of getting old and/or seniority and responsibilities.

[jemhouston]

Not good, but not as bad as it could have been.

[Wolfman]

Well, Cindy Mantell (Tiff's wife and my daughter-in-law) was in an officer-involved shooting this morning near Colorado Springs.

She was taking her meal break at zero-dark-thirty when a very spiffy Ferrari 812 rolled up at truck stop diner. Only idiots drive high-end sports cars on Colorado highways in winter (leaving aside the odds of getting high-centered, the salt will corrode your supercar into junk faster than you'd believe possible). So she calls in the plate while he's in the john; it's stolen. She requests backup . . . just as the driver comes out of the men's room with a 12-gauge, fires one shot into the ceiling, and announces that this is a stickup.

She in turn draws, and announces, "COLORADO STATE PATROL, DROP THE WEAPON AND PUT YOUR HANDS UP!"

He tried to get the gun onto Cindy when she had him cold. Very bad move! She fired three shots, he goes down, she moves in, kicks away the shotgun, cuffs him, and then starts rendering first aid. Suspect is now in stable condition in the hospital, and Cindy's on administrative leave while they run the shooting investigation.

Shootee has a LOT of priors in multiple states, and multiple outstanding warrants for violent felonies--he apparently never got the coveted "plays well with others" grade in elementary school . . . probably will have multiple DAs arguing about what the order is for getting this SOB tried.

I spoke to her on the phone from Grand Targhee this evening. She's holding up OK; her old FTO is coaching her through her stress period, and Tiff is telling her, "You did it exactly right." The surveillance camera footage from the truck stop diner is on the Denver/Colorado Springs TV stations, it's on YouTube, and Roberta insisted that we watch it.

I can face having to draw down on a bad guy with a certain degree of equanimity. It's a whole 'nother story when it's someone I love having to do it. But Cindy is a champ. I watched that video five times, and I can't identify anything that she could've done better.

Rumor has it Donut Operator is going to do his next video analyzing this as soon as the bodycam footage is released.

All I have to say is “Somebody picked the wrong truck stop!”

[jemhouston]

Considering how many people are legally armed, I'm surprised he wasn't shot by more than one person.

[Poohbah]

Considering how many people are legally armed, I'm surprised he wasn't shot by more than one person.

Not a lot of people in a truck stop at zero-dark-thirty the day after Christmas, and most of them weren't especially energetic.

[Poohbah]

Well, Kelly and Roberta had a chat with me this evening. Roberta noticed that I was still . . . processing . . . my daughter-in-law having had to take someone down, she got Kelly on the line, and we had a candid conversation about all kinds of things.

Kelly asked me if I felt the same way about Krista in the whole RamDyne mess, and I said absolutely. She then asked how I felt about her facing these risks as a Bannock County deputy, or dropping ordnance in Chicago, and I said I felt the same way. She is near and dear to my heart as well as Roberta's, Brad is a good friend, et cetera. I can accept it; I just have concerns that I need to work through whenever these kinds of things happen, especially when it comes to things like Tiffany or Brad being widowed.

Kelly pointed out that she and Brad aren't married, and I said, "You two are married to each other in your hearts; you will love and cherish each other until your last breath. You just didn't bother with keeping the admin weenies happy."

So, the conversation flowed to the '24 sheriff election, and she mentioned that the Pocatello PD Chief could win.

Then she mentioned his name. A name that if I had never heard it again, it would be too soon.

I'm going to check him out to rule in or rule out that it's the same guy.

[jemhouston]

Too bad you're on active duty, you could cut a campaign ad.

[Kendog52361]

So, the conversation flowed to the '24 sheriff election, and she mentioned that the Pocatello PD Chief could win.

Then she mentioned his name. A name that if I had never heard it again, it would be too soon.

I'm going to check him out to rule in or rule out that it's the same guy.

I'll be honest, when I read your reaction to the guy's name, my first thought was "Oh Boy". Based on your previous luck, I immediately thought of whether this was a situation similar to Baltar, not in the wanted for high treason level, but somebody who, if they knew it was him, would be wanted for doing "very bad things", like that "Alberta(?) person, (no it's Belinda, I think)", who was in the San Fran Rape House. Then, I realized that, as a cop, there would likely have been some kind of background check, and while it's possible that his record could be scrubbed, I then thought it could be somebody who screwed up, massively, and while he basically got away with it, maybe thanks to the "old boy's network", it was still a very bad screwup.

[Wolfman]

So what’s the word there, Poohbah?

[Poohbah]

Well, yeah, it's the same guy.

Charles G. "Charlie" White, Fifth Force Service Support Group. Enlisted in the Marines in 1982, made Staff Sergeant by 1987.

To hear him tell it, he got a Silver Star at Clovis, and got discharged as a Staff Sergeant.

(That alone should set off warning bells; getting a Silver Star or higher as a staff NCO tended to get you picked up for knife-and-fork school, or on the short list for accelerated promotion to backfill the large number of empty platoon sergeant/company first sergeant billets.)

Well, the only things he got out of Clovis were (1) a case of the clap and (2) eventually, an Other Than Honorable Discharge for black-marketing Dodge CUCV spare parts and forging MIPR documents to conceal the inventory shortfalls. That REMF didn't even GET to Clovis until well after the shooting stopped. I sat on his general court-martial in November 1987. The evidence was pretty conclusive, he got knocked down to Private, he didn't regain Lance Corporal until February 1989, got shoved in the G-1 shop at Division, and he was never recommended for promotion to Corporal. He was in the first batch of postwar discharges (he got mustered out in December 1989--anyone with a 1989 discharge was either due to medical/psychiatric issues or serious misconduct).

I checked; Idaho law enforcement hiring didn't check your discharge status with Philly, and they didn't request a fiche of your service records; they just accepted whatever DD-214 you provided. Now, given that he'd been caught forging documents, putting him in the G-1 shop was insanely stupid. He probably typed up his own DD-214, made up a signature, and laughed on his merry way to his first law enforcement job. As long as he didn't talk to the VA, he was safely anonymous.

[Wolfman]

Somehow, I don’t think he’s going to get elected Sheriff once the truth comes out…

[Poohbah]

Somehow, I don’t think he’s going to get elected Sheriff once the truth comes out…

I'm domiciled in Idaho, and I sent this information to my State Representative with a polite note:

From: Josh Mantell
To: The Honorable Ms. Elizabeth Routledge, Representative, 4th Legislative District (B)

Subject: Pocatello Police Chief: Questions Regarding Qualifications and Fitness for Office

Encl:
(a) Records of Court Martial Convened by CG Fifth Marine Division, 19 November 1987
(b) Readout of USMC Manpower Command Records in re: WHITE, CHARLES G.
(c) Biography of Charlie White, Pocatello Police Chief

Liz,

1. Nothing but God's love for those paste-eating idiots you have to put up with your professional colleagues in the Statehouse, but why in the hell is could they kindly explain why Idaho is the only state that does NOT require a cross-check of veterans' status for law enforcement hires through the Department of Veteran Affairs and the Department of Defense? This gentleman's name came up in conversation recently, and I was quite thoroughly surprised to hear where this guy landed.

2. Seriously, this needs to be fixed. Sooner, as opposed to later. He is likely to be engaged in shenanigans. And we need to be sure there aren't other problems waiting to be found the hard way.

3. Give my regards to Tommy. Roberta says hi. I swear to Jeebus I will be visiting Coeur d'Alene in June, we need to get together and do some barbecue. I have a new seasoning mix that is supposed to go absolutely perfect with that Carolina Gold sauce you and Tommy love.

Sincerely,

Josh

[Matt Wiser]

If this triggers an investigation by the AG, he's finished. Once his dirty laundry-and it is quite dirty-is aired in public, his hopes for higher office are literally gone with the wind. I had people in 419 as reservists who serve on the Pocatello PD-most of 'em are CSPs in the 419th Combat Security Police Squadron-and they have nothing but contempt for the man. The conventional wisdom there is that the guy got the job so that he could use it as a springboard to higher office-either County Sheriff, state legislature, or even a Congressional seat.

I also wouldn't be surprised if the Mayor and City Council have a chat and decide that the Chief's services are no longer required....