Dark Earth Timeline Discussion

Simon Darkshade
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Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion

Post by Simon Darkshade »

March
- The vandalism of Marx’s grave is by some young apprentice wizards/former public schoolboys who are a bit caught up in the Vietnam victory
- Skeet surfing is a reference to the 1984 Val Kilmer movie Top Secret
- Shifts in Malayan basing creates a roughly equidistant chain of three ‘super bases’, backed up by the BCFESR at Singapore
- The key factor in the March 5 bit about Congolese nationalisation is the size of the ANC
- New Zealand going nuclear is a rather different occurrence, but comes from the driver of Red Indonesia
- A royal pregnancy means many things, including a new ‘spare’
- The South Atlantic USO will be heard from again
- France makes a play for Benelux ties, which will begat a British reaction
- Judge John Dredd is a bit of a different sort
- Sir Charles Ratcliffe entering Parliament will play out down the line
- The Baltic Balance needs an article of its own
- Tanganyikan peanut successes are a hat tip back to 1947
- Frank Worrell not only lives, but gets to WI PM
- The Junior Chieftain was inspired by East German mini tanks used by their Young Pioneers
- The RIAF is keeping ahead of the Arabs and showing it publicly
- Lennon and McCartney getting together is a precursor for further developments
- Stranger Things are to come for Hawkins…
Simon Darkshade
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Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion

Post by Simon Darkshade »

April
- The Wombles meeting Wilf is a multi-layered Ark Royal-themed Easter Egg
- Sean Flynn survives the Vietnam War, rather than disappearing
- The US census using cutting edge technology will be the most detailed yet
- French Algeria is the antithesis of peaceful and ordered, but the FLN just lacks that extra edge that a regional supporter and more favourable numbers could bring
- The Danish King's car accident is largely historical
- The Return of the King secures a hat trick of Best Picture awards (The Two Towers tying with Oliver! and sparks a pop culture fantasy craze for several years. Heston's second Oscar is richly deserved and sparks a mid career renaissance
- A link between the Cape to Cairo Railway and the Cairo to Singapore Railway is now complete
- The man turning into a tree is an Eastern Egg/hat tip to Edge of Darkness
- The Dauphin's visit is an attempt to spark some measure of Franco-German rapprochement
- An RN battle squadron calling in Alex isn't the most earthshaking event, but quietly illustrates that (a) The Andrew still has multiple battle squadrons; (b) Egypt is trying to wriggle loose to some measure of independence; and (c) the process isn't a one way street, nor is it Egypt's only possible path
- Similarly, the sinking of K-8 is an OTL event, but the lost of all nuclear weapons on board is not. It shows how the Soviets are trying to counter the Western strategic nuclear advantage with tactical weapons, but that this entails some risky stacking of platforms
- The Indian boy and his tiger is a reference to Life of Pi; the more definitive existence of the tiger is a bit of an illustration of Dark Earth's theology
- The Orion 4 astronauts receive a rapturous reception and, after a short period of quarantine in May, get the beginnings of a proper public welcome in June. There are a lot more of them (a crew of 60), but the key stars will get the better part of the glory. Orion 5 has an even larger crew, being a larger ship
- Premier Alvares' madness is caused by a very nasty drug he has been infected with; being able to turn public figures stark raving mad with an injection is an advantage to some
- The mysterious white Shaolin master is Kane from Kung-Fu
- Rescue of the Venezuelan carrier prevents further embarassment
- The Morris Major is an entirely fictional car, looking like a Ford Granada Mark II and with a decently powerful and efficient engine. It will sell very well through the 1970s at home and abroad and provide decent competition to Austin, Rover, Rootes and the other British manufacturers
- The Colombian election is a cluster kerfuffle
- Legionnaires near Hoover Dam? The fallout from this mystery will be considerable...
- The Great Air Race is a sign of a bit of pre-WW1 nostalgia to match the rapidly changing world
- Tito goes early, without having the same role
- The old Robin Hood gets a new lease of life, shifting its role from a short range nuclear missile to a conventional strike missile with a ~35 mile range. It has the advantage of being faster and more accurate than the Soviet FROG-7, but is an interim measure
-The Wonders of the Natural World include a couple of DE specials - the Challenger Plateau being the Lost World of Arthur Conan Doyle and the Silver Mountain being a spectacular lonely mountain in Canada with rock formations that look like massive bodies of silver (but are in fact just an optical effect)
- The last installment of the British national debt is paid off, causing reaction in some circles
- Not only will the Adamsons have a nicer fate, but Elsa lives longer and visits frequently
- Jack Sexton and RESC will be heard of again; the Musa Protocol and Acacia Avenue Incident of 1967 are both references to Bananaman, whilst St. Swithins is a reference to the Doctor in the House series
Simon Darkshade
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Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion

Post by Simon Darkshade »

May
- The five notes may be familiar to those who have viewed Close Encounters of the Third Kind
- The Viking is a very good, high performance fighter that has had a bit of difficulty getting new markets due to a little bit of extra cost. Getting Finland as a market would be a great boon. The stay behind cooperation, across NATO lines, reflects the close ties between Sweden and Finland
- Flood defences and preparations in Bengal means that the November 1970 cyclone will not be a biblical catastrophe
- Female police numbers in Britain are quite a bit smaller than in @ and more confined to niche roles. One reason for this is the range of threats even an ordinary bobby has to potentially deal with and their role in a mobilisation scenario; the different social attitudes and greater traditionalist views also play a big role
- Skiing off Mount Everest is an OTL event that isn’t as widely known as it might be
- The first large scale return home of US troops from Vietnam is met very differently than in @. The major victory parades will follow in July
- Formation of The Beatles, not as a pop group, but as something of an amalgam between The Goodies and DE Reverend Elvis. They will get their own television show…
- Scratchproof glasses are a small quality of life improvement
- The Queen’s Own Mountain Regiment’s creation reflects two things - the British Army evolving to fit its anticipated battle fronts in Scandinavia, Austria and India/Afghanistan; and being in a situation where new units are being established, rather than the insidious creeping process of amalgamation and force reductions. The Army has shrunk a little from its peacetime 20th century peak, but not hugely so. The general structure of 6 Guards regiments, 6 Rifle regiments and 100 Regiments of Foot has not changed since the late 19th Century, with variations being on the number of regular battalions; it grew from 236 in 1960 to 256 from 1965-70 with the shifting of 20 TA battalions to regular service as was done in the @ Boer War.
- In @, most 2nd Battalions went after India went independent, followed by further amalgamations and culling through the 50s and 60s
- The most significant difference is a toss up between the 100 Regiments of Foot vs 68 in 1900 post Childers Reforms and having 6 Rifle Regiments vs 2. This infantry force is augmented by the Paras, the Commandos, the Rangers and the Gurkhas, Sikhs and Zulus, as well as the new mountain troops
- Units from Malta and Gibraltar are being bought into the ‘home regimental system’ from the Imperial/colonial regiment grouping and there is some thought that Hong Kong and Singapore’s regiments will follow
- NYC in 1976 is a bit of a bicentennial gift
- Tornadoes will start to be less damaging if they are detected early
- Project Chamberlain (named after PM Joseph, rather than his second son) is a reaction to the growing Soviet surface fleet through the emplacement of 12 batteries of missiles around the British and Irish coast and a further 12 through the Commonwealth and Empire
- The Chronicles of Prydain join Narnia and LOTR in the fantasy boom
- The International Revolutionary Army camp was hit by British sub launched missiles with X series nerve agents (the deadlier follow on the V series)
- Superman saves a boy at a ball game from death and only being remembered as a trivia question
- The Ra expedition will be a higher profile success
- Vysotsky has a higher profile beyond the USSR
- The A-Team seeks refuge underground (literally)
- Women’s soccer no longer effectively banned in Britain
- The Lyonesse Regiment have quite the reputation for valour and ferocity that is partly the role of a centuries old faerie blessing
- School lunch reforms in the US hit just when there was more of a rise of junk and poor quality food in @. Within the decade, it will be the envy of the world, reflecting American wealth and affluence
- A green light to.a Channel Tunnel will result in a bit of a different project
- Bridging of the Darien Gap
- There is less of an MIA issue in Vietnam, given the exigencies of the end of the conflict and the Soviets wanting to build up some American goodwill and maybe a little detente
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Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion

Post by Simon Darkshade »

June
- Soviet spy scandals in Australia and New Zealand show that with a Red Indonesia, they are more on the frontline of the Cold War
- The ICM Mercury "personal computer" isn't up to the level of 1980s devices of the same name, but rather is the first widely available machine marketed as such. It is somewhere between an Altair 8800 and Sol-20 in characteristics
- Italy is getting into high speed rail, which has some utility given its geographical circumstances
- Air pirates being hit with curare is a sign of rapid adaption to evolving threats
- The painting theft in London is historical, but the involvement of the Italian 'art commandos' (who here are a bit more overtly ...'commando-ish'...) is a separate development
- The Argentine self coup is the first step in some definitive changes down in the Southern Cone, some for the better, some not so much. Rodriguez is no Peron, but they have certain common characteristics
- The Portuguese Colonial War is progressing differently with different countries on some borders
- 'I'm Backing Britain' is more of a nuanced and focused campaign on buying British and Commonwealth products than a non-union supported campaign to work extra hours in a push for greater productivity
- The islands of the South Pacific are a long way off self government and independence
- Gordon Banks plays in 1970, but the world doesn't fall into dystopia
- The refusenik escape plot actually works here, with better consequences for those involved, but nastier ones for those left behind
- The Range Rover is rather more successful than its @ equivalent
- Pele leads Brazil to a World Cup triumph, providing something of a reward for a very good side of the time
- The wife of the Aidenfield constable, a Dr. Rowan, is saved through the intercession of a American chap named John Smith and his grizzled travelling companion, who might be familiar to those who have ever seen Highway to Heaven
- The Kunst brothers' walk around the world has a successful and less tragic conclusion here
- Exercise Marlborough highlights the larger scale/size of the British Army, as well as a few interesting new weapons systems in the 5" LARS and the 375mm howitzer. The latter is very long range and bad for your health if you are in the area of its rounds impacting. I slipped in the bits about protective kilts and Highland charges to show that some seemingly old fashioned aspects (in this case of uniform and tactics) remain in some convoluted form; the charge is really a bayonet charge with some extra swords for good measure
- The Pragger Wagger finishes university rather quickly for the amount of subjects; there is some magic at work here, similar in concept to the Time Turner from Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban
- Indian princes/monarchs remain a power group, rather than being deposed and progressively poked off stage
- A new Tolkien book covering the Second Age was perhaps a little motivated by the decidedly laissez faire approach to lore taken in The Rings of Power
- The Sentinel Program's completion does provide quite an effective ABM shield over the USA against an early-mid 1960s level threat, but the growing size of the Soviet arsenal, MIRVs and more necessitate new technologies. The race never stops
- Smokey the Bear saves the boy, reminding us that only you can prevent child scalding
- Jeremy Thorpe's wife does not die. He has a bit of a different career, not making it to the top job in the larger Liberal Party, and has never met Norman Scott; Rinka lives a long and happy life
- Gunther Messner is not lost on a Himalayan mountain, showing that at least some yeti are quite friendly
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Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion

Post by Simon Darkshade »

July
- The halfling desire for their lads to do National Service is in part a representation of where they see their best interests as a community
- Comet production and sales are much, much larger than @, being one of the real successes of the postwar British economy
- Underwater tests are strictly speaking not allowed, but the French are wiggling through technicalities of what exactly counts as underwater
- The clean up of the Victory Parade will be the model for future public sanitation developments
- Ruins in Cyprus are from the Atlanteans
- Umberto II's death is a pure accident, rather than anything deliberate. Hunting falls have never been good for kings
- The Yak-36 is closer to the Yak-141 in many areas of performance, rather than being an utter dog
- The Guardian article has a number of key takeaways - the lower numbers of Indian immigration compared to this point in @ reduces the number of restaurants from ~1500+ to about 300; that the Guardian in particular is not fond of Italians; and that there is a bit of ignorance of the nature of spaghetti
- The EPA is an @ development, but environmental awareness is probably a bit ahead of @
- Trolls kill the King of Iceland
- Some US troops don't return home from Vietnam, but are redeployed to Australia in light of the Indonesian threat
- The Bielefeld Conspiracy strikes again!
- Rodriguez announces increases in the Argie Army, largely as a pay off for political support in the self coup
- Jaguar Knight assassinations in Mexico indicate not resurgent Aztecs back from the grave, but rebel groups adopting their regalia and imagery
- Arab Mirage orders show that they are trying to diversify their defence equipment
- The experimental interdimensional craft is an interesting story
- Sky Shield keeps going on, with the exercise giving good experience to both the 'attackers' and defence
- Pug Henry keeps the US Navy wet. It never went dry in 1914, with Josephus Daniels not getting anywhere near Secretary of the Navy on account of TR’s third term from 1912
- The Anglo-Congolese agreement is not an end to the troubles, but a cap on some of them
- The TA never losing its expansive combat division role that in @ developed from the 1957 White Paper (dropping from 10 to 2 divisions) and the late 1960s contraction. The first line units and strength have become smaller with the inactivation of AA Command, but there is still a reasonable level of capacity. In general, there is a similar tripartite structure to the US Army with its National Guard and Army Reserve formations of the 1950s in the form of the TA and the Army Reserve, with the latter being a combination of the @ ‘Ever Readies’ and a bit of 1900-1945 structures. There is still a strong push to reduce the active divisional strength of the British Army in light of the end of Vietnam, the continuing reduction of forward deployed forces in the Middle East and the capacity of a UK based strategic reserve combined with long range air lift. The RFC getting Harriers after 8 years of debate and argument is a bit of a rebuff to the RAF’s desire to control everything that flies and will be followed by some more contentious developments across the Atlantic
- The bits and pieces of tech on display at the National Technological Exposition are inspired in some cases from Lapcat intel/Sam Johnson's memories in 1961
- Salazar is but a footnote here
- The realisation that two species have been wiped out, one accidentally and one by design, gives some people pause
- Planning begins on the Sears Tower
- The Royal Ordnance L204 25pdr multirole airborne field/anti-tank/infantry support gun is not just a bit of a mouthful, but represents a different response to the lessons of various conflicts. It isn't quite on the level of the Soviet towed 125mm AT gun, but the guns haven't quite gone extinct yet
- Tupamaros up to no good
Simon Darkshade
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Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion

Post by Simon Darkshade »

August
- The Durbar during the Royal visit to India isnt entirely uncontroversial, but still goes off as a great spectacle
- The Black Russians are a small community coming from some Ethiopian emigres in the late 19th century, but the main part of Soviet ‘forces’ in Africa come from trained expats. The mention of new small arms will play out in time
- Amazonian mammals are a mole/aardvark type creature; one way of showing that the secrets of the jungle have not yet been even half discovered
- The North Sea is turning into quite the oil bonanza, with the windfall being saved for the future rather than wasted
- Sukarno is trying to wriggle his way loose from a strict Moscow line, as the dominoes haven’t fallen in the expected pattern
- The film of the Mahabharata isn’t quite Peter Brook’s production, but is long! The Indian film industry isn’t quite developing into the same Bollywood
- The ALF is trying to move into an advantageous position
- British fast food not copying the American foods, styles and models is an interesting difference. Miggin’s Pieshops evolve from a business stretching back to the Tudor period…
- Rameses has made it to Egypt and he isn’t happy
- Donald Campbell is breaking records on a salt lake not present in @ that is about to become a real lake once again
- The medical advances described by The Lancet might be familiar to some
- Newgate Prison is still around and some things happen outside it
- The CVLs and CVEs ship a lot of helos and ASW planes, making a submarine campaign a difficult proposition
- The Fairey Rotodyne Avenger is a very powerful heavy attack ship without an @ parallel
- Vatican justice towards terrorists isn’t soft, considering that clemency is mazatello and quartering!
- Triton is somewhere between Poseidon and Trident in capability
- Kaiser Bill was accidentally served some overly fermented cabbage whilst visiting a barracks
- The discovery of lost Inca gold is set up for a story; the wording of the location may be familiar to some who remember Mysterious Cities of Gold
Simon Darkshade
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Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion

Post by Simon Darkshade »

September
- The circumstances of the attempted hit on the King of Jordan are slightly different without the same background of refugee Palestinian Arabs, let alone an armed state within a state, but Jordan still has its issues
- Mass rocket launches at Woomera speaks both to the size and scale of the site and the desired prestige effect
- Elvis triumphs again, this time bringing the infamous Dr. Gristlethwaite to justice
- Allende gets into power
- Dawson’s Field has a different outcome more akin to Mogadishu
- Count Takeshi is a reference to Takeshi’s Castle
- The Hurricane is a bit of a game changer, giving a big edge; the Spitfire even moreso. When combined with the Harrier, Tornado, Lion, Phantom, Lightning and Thunderbolt, RAF Germany, or the tactical air forces intended to fight WW3 on the Continent, are well equipped
- US Army demob stats show how large the Army grew for Vietnam
- American cars continue to be large and suited for their conditions, with no oil based reasons for smaller/compact designs to break their market dominance
- The Sky Marshal program involves some very specialised weapons
- Appropriation of 2560 goats is an obliques reference to ‘The Men Who Stare at Goats’ and their rather different situation here
- The Royal Israeli Navy has quite the different reputation here and operates larger and more powerful ships as part of that
- Unrest in Jordan results in the request for aid and rapid movement of troops from Britain. This provides some of the final arguments in favour of shifting from large forces on the ground in the Middle East in favour of smaller garrisons and rapid reinforcement
- China is trying to open up and normalise trading relations after their period of Soviet alliance 15 years ago, but faces roadblocks in the form of their own competing interests that oppose the West. Still, there is less of a Bamboo Curtain
- The DE F-15 is a very powerful plane with a few interested foreign states already making inquiries
- The Swedish Social Democrats win an election, which would not be a noteworthy event in @, but here, they have not been in power continuously since WW2
- Ugandan gold deposits make it a very attractive state to invest in; quite the contrast to @
- The new Soviet bomber is a step towards catching up
- JFK planting a mallorn tree on a grassy knoll in Houston and making a quip about being shot
- There probably won’t be any Australian readers from the southern states, but if there are, the different 1970 VFL grand final result will be recognisable
- Air Force One almost bumping into a UFO is concerning to the powers that be
- ‘Warship’ is similar to the @ series in a number of ways, but features a bit more combat, in addition to being set on a cruiser rather than a frigate
- Attenborough’s film on Market Garden not only has a different title and ending, but manages to include some epic set pieces that show the scope of the campaign
- Legal prohibitions on gambling and lotteries continue in Britain
Simon Darkshade
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Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion

Post by Simon Darkshade »

ctober
- Hammer and Harryhausen's When Dinosaurs Ruled the Earth is quite the popular picture, showing that the desire for escapism from a decade of war hasn't dimmed
- There wasn't a huge meg population to begin with and a focused extermination campaign was effective. If Man is good at anything, it is destruction
- Jim Clark lives and prospers
- Letting loose experimental killer reptiles whilst thinking that they will be grateful for your loving gesture? It has an expected result
- George Ashton's lottery prize is slightly less highly taxed, showing that levels of taxation haven't quite hit the @ heights of the 1960s
- Nazi hunters (Ezra Liebermann being Sir Laurence Olivier's character from The Boys from Brazil) capturing three big targets - Dr Christian Szell coming from Marathon Man and Eduard Roschmann coming from The Odessa File, as well as being a real figure
- Kuwait is not an independent sheikhdom, but was annexed as a Crown Colony in 1925. Over the next 45 years, it has seen growth of its economy and population. As of 1970, it has a population of 536,000 (compared to 753,000), divided between 40% Indian, 32% Arab/Kuwaiti, 16% British/European/White, 5% Persian, 4% Malay and 2% from various other groups; in addition, there is a large military presence with some new airbases and land bases being constructed. There is increasing interest in London about possibly annexing it wholesale, but this is complicated by the large coloured population and the associated migration implications
- Apart from Kerr's The Galloping Gourmet being entertaining, it also shows a shift in television broadcasting towards more Canadian, Australian and South African content
- French command in Chad decides that it will not act in haste, but will strike back when they deem the time is right
- Warsaw Pact military maneuvers show that they are forging ahead, rather than being stuck well behind NATO
- In @, there were 3 nuclear tests on a single day in October 1970; here, Britain is also testing out a new ICBM RV
- More evidence of relatively new Soviet weapons in Afghanistan does seem to indicate that there might be some trouble coming there
- The President of Liberia shoots himself in the foot through his strictures against Liberian flagged shipping, considering how advantageous it was in @. However, there haven't been the same drivers for such great shifts towards Liberian and Panamanian flag of convenience shipping
- General Patton lives to a ripe old age; his funeral is attended by his wartime comrade and friendly rival Earl Montgomery of Alamein
- The TOW is a bit hotter in performance than the @ version, having greater penetration of 25" with its improved shaped charge warhead
- US generals landing in the USSR by accident is shifted eastward, given the lack of US bases in Turkey
- A Royal visit to Hong Kong and the Philippines shows some of the wider travels of the monarch
- Waterloo has a different director, filming location and source of extras, as the exigencies of a frostier Cold War preclude a Soviet director and cooperation on that level
- Ceylon is starting to branch out and diversify, but is still centred on resource extraction
- Multinational involvement in the Kangaroo series of wargames makes for more expansive learning and larger scale training
Simon Darkshade
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Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion

Post by Simon Darkshade »

November
- French protests don't attract a response from security forces, indicating a gradual normalisation
- King Zod's companions are Ariu, or Albanian for Bear (Ursa); and Non, making up the trio from Superman II. This is simply coincidence, not an indication that they are Kryptonian. King Zod has rather expansive dreams for Albania, which works in with his coincidental name
- George Bush is elected to the US Senate
- The sad case of 'Genie' will have a better outcome, due in part to the contribution of Dr. Anne Goldberg (nee Anne Frank), who married a Jewish Canadian soldier and moved to North America
- Bonfire Night celebrations are rather more official and well organised; they will continue, rather than fading away, as there is a (nominal) statutory requirement
- Egypt tried in the 1950s in @ to control Sudan and the November 6 development followed in the Nasser/Sadat period. In DE, Egypt is still nominally within the British sphere and London is not entirely averse to Cairo’s influence over Sudan, but doesn’t want them getting too many ideas, so puts a kybosh on anything definite
- 1914 is a truly epic war film, reflecting a profoundly different popular culture view of the Great War. It is seen as less of a waste, less of a bloody stalemate and less futile, which in turn has great impacts on British social and political development for the rest of the century. The film portrays 1914's fighting as a combination of German triumphs and Allied victories - Mons, the Marne and Ypres in the latter case. It closes with the Christmas Truce and then silent footage of large numbers of British troops arriving in France
- The Lockheed Jetstar is a four engine plane, rather than a trijet. Clark Kent is sort of right that the US market is oversaturated with big jet airliner producers
- Continuing British military restructuring sees the introduction of the 'field force' concept as a unit partway between the brigade and division for specific missions and purposes. There are two schools of thought - one of reorganising each of Britain's four heavy regular corps to have 4 divisions and another that advocates keeping them at 3; Canada is already moving to two 4 division corps for European service
- The circumstances of the Syrian coup d'etat include a lot of specific rhetoric and styling. The general US and British policy is to keep overt Soviet presence out of the Middle East. The initial ‘in’ for the Soviets in the @ Middle East was Egypt, then Syria, then Iraq. This failure of Middle Eastern policy came from many causes, among which was the power vacuum that followed on from British withdrawal. Here, there were repeated actions in the early 1950s and then the seismic 1956 War/Six Day War. Not only was Britain able to reassert her regional hegemony, but it did so in such a fashion that hit an already fractured Arab nationalist movement for six. Following on, the standard rule was: No communists, no communist coups and no attempts at deposing monarchies in favour of communist sympathisers; break that, and the hammer comes down. It has done so in Libya and to some extent in Jordan. The response has been a discrediting of the socialist/Pan Arabist types and into the void of their absence comes the Arab Union - an increasingly close confederation of Arabia, Iraq, Jordan, Syria and Yemen, all ruled by Hashemite kings. Theirs is a different kind of nationalism, and although they’d still like the British more out of the picture, the other options are the Americans or the Soviets, neither of which would allow them even their current degree of independence
- The Women’s Auxiliary Balloon Corps is from Blackadder Goes Forth, where it is the former unit of Captain Darling
- Akira Tanaka being succeeded by Yukio Mishima is a big change...
- The Renaissance Men is based on Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, with Machiavelli playing the role of Master Splinter
- The poor New York schoolgirl rescues her brother from Jareth the Goblin King and his magic dance and is not only disbelieved, but gets sent off to South Park for her troubles
- The Aircraft (National Preference) Act 1970 is very much the ‘Reaction to Buying the Phantom Act’, influenced by the British aerospace conglomerates. The Armed Services buy British in virtually all cases, the major airlines and East India Company do the same (quite different from BOAC in @) and now the private aircraft operators (private air forces/mercenary groups, privately owned airlines, industrial air groups and more) have a direct encouragement to do the same. Other countries which do the same thing will of course complain, but there is rather less absolute free trade and more openness to protection of key industries
- South Africa gets its first black Cabinet members; its GG is Field Marshal Sir Daniel Pienaar of WW2 fame; he was made an Earl postwar
- Protect and Survive, rather than being met with cynicism and dread by an undefended populace, it is seen as the latest reasonable measure by a trusted government who has never abandoned Civil Defence. There are a lot more public shelters and even more private shelters to boot, along with the CDS and a wide spread infrastructure for survival. Above and beyond it is the idea of defending against the Bomb, not just accepting destruction
- Royal Artillery tactics continue to evolve, but not just down the path of @. Whereas on Earth, the rolling/creeping barrage was progressively abandoned after WW1, here there have been slightly different developments. Larger armies and different weapons result in different tactical evolution, including a perceived role for tactics that emerged from positional warfare
- Canada gets a fusion plant
- Animal votes are a bridge too far overall, although there are some Liberals thinking their way to government lies through the kennel; I liked the idea of cats voting for fascism just to see the chaos and destruction
- The Goodies are hired by Sir Charles Ratcliffe, the world's richest man and part of the British security and intelligence establishment, to make sure the US bidders weren't successful
- In @, the would be papal assassin only got a few years in prison, but feelings are on edge with regards to Philippine assassinations
- November 28 is a reference to Regular Ordinary Swedish Meal Time, a YouTube comedy troupe from 2011 and 2014. I recommend them as a true and accurate reflection of Swedish cookery
- The Sopwith Camel is a versatile and effective aircraft. The most analogous utility plane is the Westland Lysander in its originally envisaged form - artillery spotting, liaison, recon and close air support - with tactical transport thrown in. Another way of thinking of it is as a fixed wing VTOL equivalent in part to the Mi-24 Hind, or indeed the Valkyrie assault transport from Warhammer 40k. They are designed to be part of a rapid response system:
A.) Supersonic strategic airlift take infantry, airborne or commando forces from Britain to other key hubs, such as Singapore, Rhodesia or Suez
B.) Operational airlift (Camels) shifts them to intermediate staging points or directly into target locations and then supports them along with RAF fighter bombers and bombers
C.) Tactical airlift takes them directly to the battlefield or target locations in helicopters and Rotodynes
- Churchill continues going on strong
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Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion

Post by Simon Darkshade »

December
- The Italian National Assembly’s position on divorce reflects the greater numbers of traditionalist and conservative parties
- USN and RN joint efforts to prepare for a putative Atlantic Monster are driven by experience of the Pacific
- Oil off the coast of New Guinea makes it more valuable and likely for Australia to keep it as long as possible
- Stasi infiltration of the German left causes concerns
- Kashmir is a quiet and peaceful place, as well as being one of many princely states
- The NIRP is administered by a man whose name translates as Count von Count; his HAL computer is also a reference to something
- Italian elections result in a rightist bloc being well placed to form a new government, which could mean a few figures returning from exile (Count Ciano, Italo Balbo and Dino Grandi)
- The Red Army Faction/Baader-Meinhoff Gang is one of several new offshoots of the IRA
- Princess Victoria gives birth to a healthy boy, named William Arthur Phillip Louis George, securing the line of succession. There will be more siblings throughout the 1970s
- The Technological Revolution is not so much forthcoming, but happening right now. The 1970s will be more like the 1980s in that respect
- South Vietnam is very well defended by 28 divisions in total (10 foreign), several hundred USAF and USMC tactical aircraft, heavy bombers in Thailand and Guam and two carrier groups offshore in addition to their own air and naval forces. This force will naturally contract if peace holds
- Anti-crash enchantments at major airports will have a very beneficial (lack of) impact over time
- Londonderry's steelworks gives some further industry and flow on jobs for areas which historically saw major unemployment as its textile industry began to fade; it is planned that once it is operational, it will be followed by some expansion of automotive manufacturing. Additionally, it supports some important RN and RNAS bases around it and there is an ICI chemical plant, General Electric electrical engineering plant and a nuclear power station under construction
- Eritrea is going to start causing trouble for Ethiopia, possibly due to external encouragement
- Gomułka retires with a bit of that very 'external encouragement'
- The MSLAR will develop into a useful man portable missile augmenting the Green Apple (broadly analogous to the Dragon)
- Of course Reverend Elvis Presley would have to use his thankful catchphrase in his conversation with the President
- The Automaton Biscuit Selector may seem like a bit of pointless and silly technology, but consider the other uses of that type of fully automatic household appliance; it could be quite interesting
- Persia is one of the big arms contracts that have been competed for by many Western powers, along with Turkey (very likely to go for Germany), Brazil, Mexico and Korea
- Hopefully US unemployment will be able to contract and there won't be any other economic hiccups in the coming 18 months
- The dragon's treasure will be saved and invested to create a decent yield; it promises to be able to fund some important pensions over time
- Something happened over the South Atlantic; it seems similar to the @ Vela Incident, but that might be deceptive, as both South Africa and Israel are both open nuclear powers
- The rankings of European military powers is quite straightforward, with it being useful to note that Britain isn't classified as a European power by the NYT on account of the Channel, but even more based on its global role and position. This is a bit of a change in DE over time, as the early days of the Barton government saw the JFK administration trying to nudge them to a more Eurocentric direction/view; this didn't work and there is a considerable focus on the Middle East, India and the Orient, so much so that in many ways the strategic centre of the British Empire can be said to lie in the Indian Ocean
- The pyramid beneath the Great Pyramid is a strange and mysterious underworld, including what might be a gate. Is it to the Duat? We will see
- China reduces some of the obstacles and tension at the Hong Kong border, driven in large part by the economic benefits of expanded trade
- PVO Strany downs a UFO and there are some apparent captives...
- Orion 6 sets out for another voyage to explore strange new worlds and to boldly go where no man has gone before
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Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion

Post by Simon Darkshade »

1970 Statistics

1970/71 Largest GDPs
1.) USA $10,608,144,009,891 (+ 5.29%)
2.) USSR $4,960,161,796,672 (+ 8.87%)
3.) Germany $4,093,122,180,171 (+ 4.97%)
4.) Britain $3,958,828,222,343 (+ 5.25%)
5.) Japan $3,538,247,610,571 (+ 9.62%)
6.) France $2,260,691,555,954 (+ 8.15%)
7.) India $1,966,967,043,165 (- 0.88%)
8.) Canada $1,957,853,379,512 (+ 7.84%)
9.) China $1,894,884,537,803 (-2.65%)
10.) Italy $1,443,231,408,096 (+ 4.57%)
11.) Austria-Hungary $1,233,186,607,912 (+ 10.75%)

1970/71 Population
1.) China: 982,236,905
2.) India: 686,183,926
3.) Soviet Union: 378,257,846
4.) USA: 331,262,928
5.) Japan: 256,450,985
6.) Indonesia: 245,035,111
7.) Germany: 192,495,335
8.) Brazil: 165,745,293
9.) France: 143,599,781
10.) Mexico: 139,512,364
11.) Britain: 136,978,142
12.) Austria-Hungary: 125,849,342

1970/71 Share of World Industrial Output
1.) USA: 23%
2.) Japan: 12.5%
3.) Soviet Union: 12.0%
4.) Germany: 11.6%
5.) China: 7.6%
6.) Britain: 6.9%
7.) India 5.2%
8.) France: 4%
9.) Italy: 3.2%
10.) Canada: 3%
11.) Austria-Hungary: 2.9%

Steel Production 1970/71 (millions of tons)
1.) USA 205
2.) Japan 187
3.) USSR 179
4.) Germany 111
5.) China: 93
6.) Britain 80
7.) AH: 69
8.) India 64
9.) Poland 61
10.) France 53
11.) Canada 50

Coal Production 1970 (millions of tons)
1.) USSR: 693
2.) USA: 675
3.) China: 536
4.) Germany: 529
5.) Britain: 487
6.) Poland: 480
7.) India: 410
8.) Austria-Hungary: 402
9.) France: 259
10.) South Africa: 214
11.) Australia: 192

Automobile Production 1970
1.) USA: 12,596,549
2.) Japan: 9,672,356
3.) Germany: 6,458,222
4.) Britain: 4,529,652
5.) France: 3,871,095
6.) USSR: 3,768,819
7.) Italy: 3,140,700
8.) Canada: 2,954,523
9.) Austria-Hungary: 2,399,872
10.) China: 2,074,355
11.) Mexico: 1,862,765

Merchant Shipbuilding 1970
1.) Japan: 10,373,584 tons
2.) Britain: 6,524,900 tons
3.) USA: 4,956,777 tons
4.) Germany: 2,163,568 tons
5.) USSR: 1,789,572 tons
6.) France: 1,682,965 tons
7.) Italy: 1,521,766 tons
8.) China: 1,344,854 tons
9.) Korea: 1,028,235 tons
10.) Sweden: 1,024,598 tons

Aircraft Production 1970
1.) USA: 5233
2.) USSR: 4962
3.) China: 3176
4.) Britain: 2989
5.) Germany: 1946
6.) France: 1598
7.) Japan: 1412
8.) India: 1086
9.) Canada: 975
10.) Italy: 721
11.) Austria-Hungary: 674

Tank Production 1970
1.) USSR: 9822
2.) USA: 5230
3.) China: 3892
4.) Britain: 3142
5.) Germany: 2546
6.) France: 1925
7.) Italy: 1639
8.) Japan: 1526
9.) Austria-Hungary: 1232
10.) India: 1185
11.) Canada: 853


Economic Points for Consideration

- China and India have recessions due to poorer harvests, driven by some bad weather events in the Far East
- The next few years will see some ratcheting down of military production in the West post Vietnam
- Japan will overtake Britain in GDP within 3-4 years as compared to 1964 in @. This reflects Japan copping it more in WW2 and Britain having a bigger edge pre war and better postwar performance
- Coming up at the back end of the Top 11 is Austria-Hungary, which is entering a very big growth period after postwar reconstruction is complete and new expansion comes online. Despite losing a reasonable bit of population capacity post Great War, the combination of @ Austria, Hungary and Czechoslovakia as a solid core is starting to ‘pay off’. Whilst AH is not the equal of Germany in any substantive measure, it is strong. The concerning scenario for a number of states is some sort of resurgent Austro-German bloc or that entity falling under Communist control. The first would present a heck of a problem and the second would give the Soviets effective control of Europe; this is why there was a lot of effort put into defibrillating the Western Alliance
- Tank production numbers include new vehicles, exports, specialist varieties and refurbished older ones, which goes some way to the numbers of the likes of Italy. In general, the Big 4 are building actual tanks and then it gets complicated
- Japanese shipbuilding was really hitting its straps before now in @ (5 million GT in 1957 to 60 million GT in 1973), but here faced the issues of more military construction and more foreign competition. The Suez Canal has never closed, unlike @, keeping down the *general* average size of tankers, which went up by 400% 1957-73 www.cna.org/archive/CNA_Files/pdf/d0006988.a1.pdf
- The biggest part of that rise occurred between 1970 and 73, seemingly unctad.org/system/files/official-document/rmt1970_en.pdf (see table on p18)
- Japan and Britain particularly both have a lot of ships on order; Japan is further constrained by only just being allowed back into certain markets and industries
- As container ships and ro/ro vessels start to grow past their first few generations, the size of orders will increase
- Incidental to that issue, there hasn’t been the same move to Panamanian and Liberian flag ships and the British Merchant Navy is narrowly the largest in the world
- A lack of an oil shock will have reverberations on shipbuilding, as well as everything else www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/j ... -1970s.htm
- Also raising shipbuilding numbers will be oil rig production
- The largish rise in British car production came through the commencement of full operations of two new plants postulated back at the beginning of Stanley Barton’s first term in government back in 1964. I like to show connections between written accounts, subsequent economic history and the statistics
- China is building a lot more steel than in @ 1970, but a fair bit of it is lower quality stuff for domestic construction rather than being a big export player. Coming up behind them is Britain, which is rising towards the limit of its capacity
- The postwar Baby Boom in the USA and the West has come to an end, with population growth rates slipping back into second gear, as it were
- 1971 was the year that France exceeded Britain’s GDP for the first time since a brief moment in 1843 (and before then preceding the French Revolution), but that isn’t on the cards here. If British growth were to slow and the French maintained, then there might be a crossover in the late 1980s, similar to Italy in @. However, the drivers aren’t necessarily present

Post WW2 History of the British National Debt

Prewar Debt in 1939: £12,579 million (GDP £21,782 million)
(57.75% of GDP)
Postwar Debt in 1946: £25,673 million (GDP £30,667 million)
(83.7% of GDP)

1947: - 697 million (26,370 million)
1948: 989 million (25,381 million)
1949: 794 million (24,587 million)
1950: - 489 million (25,076 million)
1951: 286 million (24,790 million)
1952: 652 million (24,138 million)
1953: 1195 million (22,943 million)
1954: 1841 million (21,102 million)
1955: 1730 million (19,372 million)
1956: - 924 million (20,296 million)
1957: 1527 million (18,679 million)
1958: 1972 million (16,797 million)
1959: 2229 million (14,568 million)
1960: 1734 million (12,834 million)
1961: 968 million (11,866 million)
1962: 947 million (10,919 million)
1963: 894 million (10,025 million)
1964: 852 million (9173 million)
1965: 1554 million (7619 million)
1966: 1876 million (5743 million)
1967: 1629 million (4114 million)
1968: 1732 million (2382 million)
1969: 1875 million (507 million)

- Apart from the transitionary year of 1947, where the shift from war to peace was effectively felt, the two significant deficits came with the Korean War rearmament of 1950 and the cost of the War of 1956
- The early 60s dip represents the slight shift in the policies of the ultimate Eden government, with this being followed by Barton’s renewed push to pay off debt
- The 1950s numbers are driven by a booming economy and the increase in oil production, along with the steadier factors outlined below
- The yearly figure doesn’t represent central government revenue surpluses alone, but also includes the annual revenues of the Martian convoy and other funds from interplanetary/extraterrestrial trade, oil revenue from the Middle East and North Sea, colonial profits (a not insignificant part coming from the West Indies), Ugandan gold and other revenue from Imperial Mining, uranium sales to the USA, the average annual royalty payments from the East India Company (~ £125 million), the large number of surplus arms sales, the ~ £300 million a year from the strange Arabian mine and interest income
- Debt after WW1 peaked at 85% of GDP vs 170% in @ and saw some reduction over the 1920s, but from 1930 onwards, largely shrank as a proportion of national wealth due to the shift in priorities following the Great Slump
- WW2 debt saw a doubling of the prewar debt, but the circumstances of its funding are an interesting and complex area in its own right. The cost of £86,943 million/$417 billion US* (1939-1946) came out to 12% expenditure of prewar gold reserves and gold/hard currency earner production, 36% taxation, 20% domestic war bonds and associated measures, 15% Commonwealth/sterling bloc borrowing and 17% foreign debt/borrowings (almost entirely from the USA)
- The historical cost to Britain was ~$120 billion US in 1945 dollars, or $1.975 trillion in 2022 USD based on 1:16.46. The conversion rate for DE is a bit more tricky due to different currency values and my use of 1990 USD as the base ‘cross dimensional’ conversion figure
- The impact of paying off the debt is that until a major economic crash/depression, war or catastrophe, the assorted revenues and any surpluses will be able to be invested into the major priorities of the government of the day. For the next few years, under Stanley Barton, that sees a major investment into a ‘sovereign wealth fund’ or more properly, a pension fund, along with ever growing North Sea oil revenues; the latter are ring fenced
- Should oil prices increase for whatever reason, it would have a considerably positive effect, but there aren’t similar drivers for anything like @‘s spike
- Whilst 3.5 to 4.5% of GDP may not seem like much, freeing it up opens up quite a few options. After 1970 is complete, I’ll go into more depth on this with regard to and in the context of a forecast of possible economic developments in the 1970s
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Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion

Post by Simon Darkshade »

1969/70 Major Industrial Areas of the World

USA (16)
New England
Midwest (Ohio, Indiana)
Michigan
Chicago/Illinois
Minnesota-Wisconsin
New York-New Jersey
Mid Atlantic-Pennsylvania-Baltimore
Pittsburgh/Lake Erie
Seattle/Northwest
Jefferson/Oregon
Northern California
Southern California
Texas
Missouri-Kansas Heartland
Birmingham-Atlanta/Southern Appalachia
Virginia-Carolinas

USSR (12)
Leningrad/Northern
Moscow/Central
Stalingrad/Volga
Urals
West Siberia/Kuzbass
Central Siberia/Krasnoyarsk/Irkutsk
Central Asia
Caucasus
Eastern Ukraine/Donbass
Kiev/Central Ukraine
Byelorussia
Far East

Germany (7)
Ruhr-Westphalia
Middle Rhine/Frankfurt/Mannheim/Stuttgart
Central Germany
Saxony
Berlin/Brandenburg
Hamburg/Bremen/Hanover
Bavaria

Japan (6)
Tokyo-Yokohama-Kanto Plain
Central Japan
Osaka-Kobe/Kansai
Chukyo Region
Chugoku Region
Northern Kyushu

Britain (6)
Midlands
Northern England + Scottish Lowlands
Yorkshire and Lancashire
Northern Ireland
South Wales
London + Southern England

China (5)
Manchuria
Northern China (Peking-Tientsin-Hopeh)
Shantung-Tsingtao
Shanghai-Nanking
Chungking

India (5)
Calcutta-Bengal
Bombay-Poona
Punjab
Madras-Bangalore
Karachi-Sindh

Canada (5)
Ontario
St Lawrence Valley-Quebec
Maritimes
Prairies
Vancouver-Pacific Coast

France (5)
Alsace-Lorraine
Nord/Pas de Calais
Paris
Burgundy-Rhone Alpes
Saarland

Italy (4)
Piedmont-Liguria
Lombardy-Emilia Romagna
Rome/Lazio
Naples

Austria-Hungary (4)
Bohemia-Moravia
Northern Hungary-Slovakia
Upper Austria-Vienna
Carniola-Trieste

Poland (4)
Silesia
Central Poland
Galicia
Gdansk-Gdynia

Benelux (4)
Randstad
Wallonia
Flanders
Luxembourg

Sweden (3)
Stockholm-Uppland
Gothenburg
Malmo

Spain (3)
Catalonia
New Castile
Navarre-Basque

Korea (3)
Seoul-Han Valley
Pusan-Ulsan
Pyongyang-Nampo-Sariwon

Australia (3)
Newcastle-Sydney-Wollongong
Geelong-Melbourne-Hastings
Adelaide and Iron Triangle

South Africa (2)
Cape Province
Transvaal

Byzantine Greece (2)
Macedonia-Thrace-Constantinople
Attica

Ottoman Turkey (2)
Adana-Alexandretta
Angora

Mexico (2)
Mexico City-Tenochtitlan
Monterey

Brazil (1)
Sao Paulo- Rio de Janeiro

Taiwan (1)
Taipei

Argentina (1)
Buenos Aires

Romania (1)
Muntenia

Switzerland (1)
Swiss Plateau

GDR (1)
Karl Marx Stadt/Konigsberg

Hong Kong (1)
Hong Kong

The notion is expanded upon a bit more here: www.yourarticlelibrary.com/industries/i ... orld/74945
Incidentally, that source looks to be from 1995. A fair bit has changed in @ in 27 years, but it was very analogous to 1970 with a few key differences.

Industrial Region Data Analysis

- This shows why the USA and USSR are the principal superpowers
- Europe is the key prize in the Cold War with over a third of the world’s industrial areas, ahead of North America in second place
- East Asia has growing strength with 15 areas, which is only going to grow as China modernises and develops
- China, Japan and India have room for considerable growth, with China’s figure not counting Hong Kong, which is on the cusp of becoming one
- The Soviet bloc has 17 current areas, soon to be joined by East Prussia/the GDR and some new industrial development zones in the Soviet Union, but caps out at ~20
- Africa is notable by its absence, reflecting the historical circumstance
- South and Latin America is growing, but suffers from the Colossus of the North
- The third global area notable by its absence is the Middle East and this is not likely to change anytime soon
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Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion

Post by Simon Darkshade »

Britain (And the World) in the 1970s, or Some Ruminations

1970 British Immigrant Population
Polish: 200,000
West Indian: 87,000
Indian: 50,000
Chinese: 25,000
French: 24,000
German: 20,000
Scandinavian: 18,000
Austro-Hungarian: 16,000
Greek: 14,000
Italian: 12,000
African: 9000
Spaniards: 8000

The largest group of foreign nationals present is Americans, but they don’t count as immigrants.

The significant differences above:

In @ 1971, the figures were 494,000 Indian, 304,000 West Indian, ~100,000 Chinese and ~35,000 Africans. In the first two cases, the 1950s and 60s saw the big waves and subsequent increases came more from growth/births of the children of immigrants in Britain. The big drivers for filling the postwar labour shortage in London transport, the NHS and northern mills also were much reduced by this point. On top of that, the numbers represented ~ 1 million out of 56 million, or 1.79%.

The situation in Dark Earth Britain is ~0.13% of the population, due to the smaller numbers and larger population. The result is that outside of London and a smattering of other large cities, there isn’t a ‘New Commonwealth’ immigrant presence, to use the @ parlance. This means there has been no drivers for racial tensions, no race riots such as the Notting Hill Riots of 1958, or associated issues. The diseased children of the BUF such as Mosley’s 1950s Union Movement don’t exist beyond a literal handful of cranks; the BUF itself doesn’t rise to prominence in the 1930s after his early death. Large parts of London, particularly in the East End, will continue to have an overwhelming majority Cockney populace and culture for some time to come, at the very least.

There will probably be a continued flow of some migration to Britain over the 1970s at a steady rate, but it will take time to grow. There are some larger tensions with the non-human races, particularly the goblinoids, and the various Martian races tend to be viewed with alarm, suspicion and hostility.

The European numbers represent a lot of skilled/professional migration and is in addition to the more transient numbers of temporary visitors, such as the ~2000 Onion Johnnies, diplomats, students, lawyers, adventurers, wizards, academics and businessmen. On top of that number are the foreign military personnel: Americans and Canadians being the big numbers, but also West Indians, South Africans, Indians, Malayans, Australians and New Zealanders; there are frequently battalion/squadron sized land and air units from the European NATO allies coming in for training at some of the battle schools and advanced fighter combat schools. London still has that character it had in WW2, with a lot of servicemen in a myriad of foreign uniforms.

In addition to that, some other predictions for the decade to come:

- No waves of strikes and industrial strife and certainly no Winter of Discontent
- Britain will bet overtaken by Japan economically, but won’t be the sick man of Europe
- Traditional heavy industries in the North, Scotland and Wales remain important and strong, rather than being allowed to die off
- A very different decade for the British automotive industry
- Few of the @ subcultures will emerge. Certainly no punks
- The Troubles in Ireland are absent here. There will be something going on there, but not of the same character
- More TV and radio stations as policies open up
- Continued progress of women’s rights, eventually catching up and surpassing Earth in some areas
- Historically, we see the rise of obesity and diet related health problems in the 1970s. Not here. If anything, they will be getting better
- Having said that, there will be the emergence of what we would consider many ‘modern’ foods. Wonka has a big decade
- Some gradual reduction of the size of the Armed Forces as costs of equipment increase, but nowhere near @
- Big changes in the way aspects social security is funded
- A lack of the circumstances that lead to the ascension of Margaret Thatcher means no PM Thatcher or what we’d recognise as Thatcherism. The Conservatives will need to find new strategies and reappraise their philosophy to take on Labour, but also to address a resurgence of the Liberals. Politically, Britain will have a genuine three way split
- Another @ issue was Europe, which won’t raise its head here. There won’t be an EEC emerging with France’s interesting decade to come, but there will be some trade related changes on the Continent. Britain, though, treads a different path
- Without twin oil shocks, it will be a more prosperous time. A lot more colour in many different ways
- Whilst a lot of oil wealth will go into various funds for the future, enough will spill over to create some interesting effects of affluence
- Supersonic air travel will begin to become more and more prevalent
- Whilst a Channel Tunnel will be thought to still be a non-starter, there will be talk of an underwater railway…
- High speed rail will branch out from the larger lines, but many of the smaller rural lines will still have more conventional services
- 1960s decisions to increase wizardly education result in more coming through and a widening use of magic and magitech
- The rise of suburbia
- African colonies that were given self government in the 1960s will now move to bona fide independence
- Increasing environmentalism
- An early 1970s fantasy boom
- Culturally, there will be a renewed folk revival in more than just music with some interesting consequences
- No decimalisation or metrication
- Around the world, the emergence of distinct mini-blocs in the Arab Middle East, Asia, Africa, South America and the Indosphere
- Some degree of gradual slowing of nuclear proliferation, given that much smaller states can’t afford The Bomb
- On nuclear matters, the advent of fusion power will see changes in this decade
- Underwater exploration…the Sea Race?

And a couple of other bits for good measure:

1.) The fiscal situation of the country is on far better grounds. Previously, I’ve outlined that total government spending is at 34.7% of GDP compared to 39.65% in @, but that is just one part of the picture.

With an earlier advent of VAT, many other internal excise rates have been reduced (alcohol, tobacco, petrol, coal/coke, coffee) to effectively 1.5% of GDP, down from 1960 and lower in turn from historical rates.

The tax burden has shifted markedly. In 1960, Income Tax was ~14.25% of GDP, National Insurance 5%, Excise 3%, Corporation and Company Tax 2% and Other 1% for 25.25% vs a historical rate of ~29% (Source www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/06/11 ... s-bashers/ Ignore the title and partisan subject matter of the article, but peruse the informative graph). By 1970, Income Tax is equivalent to 11%, NI 6%, VAT 4%, Excise 1.5%, Corporation 1.5%, Other 1% for 25% as compared to ~35%. The remaining revenue comes from external tariffs, royalties, overseas revenue, interest earnings and assorted government sales.

2.) With the forthcoming cessation of certain areas of expenditure, there are likely to be further savings passed on to the taxpayer.

3.) As more colonies progress towards independence, the role of the Imperial Police will be changing towards a Commonwealth-wide law enforcement agency that also plays a role as a nation wide ‘federal’ law enforcement agency in Britain (combining the functions of the NCA/NCS, the National Criminal Intelligence Service/Central Drugs Intelligence Unit and in doing so, treading on the toes of the Royal Constabulary). A bit of a mania for centralisation will have some interesting costs.

4.) Narcotics are starting to raise their head, but in a different form to @. There wasn’t a Dangerous Drugs Act of 1920 and prohibitions on cocaine and heroin were a longer time coming; marihuana has not made a breakthrough to widely known status. Opium has the worst reputation, followed by lotus (especially black), hallucinogenic cheese, nepenthe, ether and quicksilver (a strange stimulating hallucinogen that changes tastes, smells and colours)

1964 General Election Analysis

1964: Conservative 220 (-125), Nationals 51 (-7), Liberals 154 (+ 47), Labour 236 (+ 112), Socialists 23 (-13), Imperialists 20 (-12), Radicals 22 (-3) and smaller parties and Independents 29 (+6) seats.

An overall majority needed on 1964 terms to get 376; with the addition of 10 extra seats from the integrated European possessions, this rises to a theoretical 381. There is to be an expansion of at several dozen seats in the life of the next Parliament to reflect population increases, shifting boundaries and other rezoning. To win a majority, a party needs in theory to get over 200 seats in England and a good half of Scottish and Irish seats; the Conservatives came close in 1959 and suceeded in 1955:

October 8 1959: The Conservative Government of Prime Minister Sir Anthony Eden is returned to power in a landslide victory in the British General Election. The Conservative Party wins 345 seats, the Nationals 58, the Liberals 107, Labour 124, the Socialists 36, the Imperialists 32 seats, the Radicals 25 seats and other smaller parties and Independents 23 seats.
May 26 1955: Sir Anthony Eden leads the Conservative Party to a resounding victory in the British General Election, winning 389 seats, to the Liberals 140, Labour 118, the Nationals 32, Imperialists 26, Radicals 20, Socialists 13 and Independents 12.

(1968: Labour 384, Conservative 172, Liberal 120, National 32, Imperialist 16, Radical 15, Independent 13, Socialist 8)

England: 405

Independent: 16
Imperialist: 13
Socialist: 9
Radical: 14
National: 10
Liberal: 67
Conservative: 142
Labour: 134

Labour made big gains around London, some Southern cities and the Midlands, expanding from their heartland in the Tyneside, the North Midlands/South Yorkshire belt and Northumberland. Essentially, the main change of seats from Conservative to Labour occurred in London and the Midlands, but it was very close in most cases. The Conservatives have a large majority of the shires and most of the South, but lost key seats in London and the Midlands; London has a total of 80 seats and will see a jump in years to come. The Liberals hold 26 seats in the South West and around the Severn, keep their Midlands heartland and regained some of their West Midlands losses.

Scotland: 129

Imperialist: 2
Socialist: 9
Radical: 2
Independent: 5
National: 12
Liberal: 32
Labour: 38
Conservative: 28

The Liberals have a fairly strong grip on the Highlands, the Western Isles, Orkney, Shetland and Faroe, Labour are largely concentrated around the central city/industrial belt and the Conservatives have their main area in the Lowlands, Border region and the University constituencies. The Liberals have a fair few marginal seats in the suburban areas of Aberdeen and Inverness.

Ireland 110

Imperialist: 2
Socialist: 2
Radical: 2
Independent: 4
National: 20
Liberal: 31
Labour: 25
Conservative: 24

The Nationals keep their heartlands in the South and West of Ireland. Labour made inroads in Dublin and Belfast that turned out to be quite important, knocking off a mixture of opponents. The Liberals have their core area of support in the East and Centre, whilst the Conservatives are strong in the North. The basis is general Irish electoral politics from 1868 and beforehand.

Wales 60

Socialist: 3
Radical: 3
Independent: 2
National: 7
Liberal: 12
Labour: 25
Conservative: 8

South Wales is a Labour heartland, whilst North Wales is strong Liberal territory and the Conservatives dominate the border counties and mountains. The Nationals lost some ground around Pembrokeshire and Cardiganshire. The Socialist holds were all very close.

Lyonesse 42

Imperialist: 3
Radical: 1
Independent: 1
National: 2
Liberal: 10
Labour: 8
Conservative: 17

Lyonesse has a few Labour seats in the industrial parts of the cities, but is mainly separated between Conservative rural and Liberal urban seats

Malta 5

Labour 3
Liberal 1
Independent 1

Gibraltar 2

Labour 2

Minorca 2

Liberal 1
Labour 1

Heligoland 1

Conservative 1
Last edited by Simon Darkshade on Tue Nov 22, 2022 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion

Post by Simon Darkshade »

Dark Earth Music and Culture Notes (Under Construction)


Moosic

Musically, general tastes are different. Jazz has never fully emerged into the level of international popularity it enjoyed in @. Rock and roll and blues music hasn't emerged in the same way and remains a niche genre, albeit sizeable, in certain portions of the United States of America. This does mean no skiffle, no Beatles or any other of the British invasion bands.

British musical tastes are somewhat akin to the 1920s-1940s with the influence of swing melding together with a more noticeable English tradition.

Big bands/swing music and popular music predominate in North America, with classical music having a higher public profile all over the world; orchestras (as well as ballets, choirs and the like) are a major tool of projecting soft cultural power through visits amongst the superpowers.

There are some very different musical traditions that have emerged, with the influence of Asian, African and Byzantine music but a few that are felt. There are strong traditions of folk music among various nationalities and diasporas.

USA
In the United States, ragtime and Tin Pan Alley pop combined with a certain degree of white washed second hand jazz into big band music in the 1930s and 40s. There is swing, but it doesn’t quite swing as wildly. There are some influences from various forms of American folk that emerged independently in the 1930s as well as country and polka. The blues remain a primarily Black form of music mainly centred on the South, with jazz being its major Northern offshoot. Rock and roll had a brief life from the 1930s through to the mid 1950s before petering out; some vestigial influences can be found in other musical genres, but in the main, it fizzled; it’s variants, such as surf music, doo wop and rhythm and blues are unheard of.

There is a fair bit of influence from South/Latin American and West Indian genres, such as calypso, bossa nova, samba, Andean music and tango, have some degree of popularity, as well as several original sources: American Indian music, dwarven brass bands and choirs, electronic classical and Martian. The latter has some elements of strange 1980s ‘New Age’ music with hurdy gurdy elements; it has a certain degree of popularity as it is outside of any copyright restrictions. Mambo or other @ Cuban variants (rhumba, cha cha cha) do not exist. Foreign language novelties such as Sukiyaki and Edith Piaf aren’t quite so novel.

The main musical form favoured by the younger audience is pop, which is comparatively anodyne compared to @ 1969/70. Pat Boone, Bobby Darin, Paul Anka, Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, Skeeter Davis, Ricky Nelson and similar artists have been in the charts.

Britain
No skiffle, no trad jazz, no beat music and no rock make for a very different 1960s sound. The predominant pop genre is a slightly more English dance band music with elements of folk, swing, show tunes and general pop. Some songs from @ would make it through, such as Petula Clark’s Downtown, Unchained Melody, Born Free and You’ll Never Walk Alone. I can see Cliff Richard still getting a bit of fame due to his combination of youthful looks and singing, but in more of a pop sense than rock. There is a strong folk element similar in some ways to Steeleye Span from @ as well as the influence of bardic music and elven elements; the latter is similar to Clannad in some ways.

In general British dance band music is rather less “swing-y” and incorporates hooks/elements from older classical music and marches. Compare In the Mood to We’ll Meet Again.

Notably, British male singers tend to adopt a distinctly British accent as compared to the more American ones used in @.


Kulturny

‘National Styles’
Britain does have a mixture of Victorian and Edwardian steampunk. This is increasingly set up as almost a deliberate cultural choice of identity against American modernity, at least on behalf of some. It reflects Britain's attempt to carve out its own niche in the Cold War.

The United States is a mixture of Dieselpunk and Atompunk. As the most advanced, richest and most powerful nation on Earth, this influence bleeds off into a lot of other cultures and societies. There is still an element of the rejection of Old World styles in favour of the new.

France could currently be described as 'Belle-Epoque/Fin de siecle'-punk, even though some aspects of that seem like a contradiction in terms. Having been extremely badly damaged by WW2 and the subsequent bloody stalemate and strategic retreat in Indochina, culture, fashion and popular culture trends include a fair bit of wistful evocation of past days of gloire.

The rest of Europe is different yet again, with the impact of the Second World War having been even more damaging than in the case of France. It follows a path somewhere between the American model and that of Britain, putting it in the region of Decopunk.

Back in the USSR, there is an increasing emphasis on Socialist Realism, modernism and futurism, with lashings of Soviet Atompunk/Raygun Gothic and the personality cult of Stalin. There is a great deal made of technology and setting aside the hackneyed vestiges of the past, but this is a surface covering over a deeply traditional Russian core. A riddle inside an enigma.

Imperial China has an interesting cultural mix of traditional styles and fashions with assertive modernity and Chinese nationalism. There could be some parallels drawn with early 20th century Imperial Japan, prior to the 1930s.

Japan is rapidly rebuilding from the war and booming economically, so there is a certain amount of modernism and futurism at play, but there has been a growing cultural movement that hearkens back to both traditional Japan and the Meiji period. Nostalgia for the samurai period will lead to some rather amusing combinations, along with the competing cultural influences of America and Britain.

- The ongoing impact of large scale universal National Service in Britain and the Dominions and conscription in the United States is heavily felt in youth culture. There has not been the emergence of a specific teenage subculture and the general youthful sense of rebellion that was already starting to poke its head in the 1950s in @ is significantly more constrained. Many of familiar artists have had very different lives. The late 50s and 60s satire and comedy boom that gave this world the Frost Report, Tom Lehrer and Monty Python (to name but a few) does not occur in anywhere approaching the same way.

- General law and order is on a par with comparatively more sedate pre-WW2 conditions. It is also influenced by the higher role of established religion in Britain and Europe. Prison conditions are very hard, virtually on Victorian levels. Gangsterism and organized crime is subject to a quite efficient backlash by policing services aided by both technology and magic.

Public order offences are dealt with somewhat severely and disapprovingly; some aspects are similar to modern Singapore, albeit in a vastly different context. Private detectives and private policing agencies such as Pinkertons play a significant role and there is a notable mercenary subculture revolving around ongoing colonial conflicts in Africa and Asia.

This has a flow on link to television and cinema, where crime as a theme is explored differently. Without Prohibition, the Mafia has not emerged to the same position in the USA, having been strangled at home by Mussolini. Crime is examined in a less-gritty manner and is viewed in a very black and white manner.

- Fashion in Britain does depend on social status, with the aristocracy tending towards early Victorian styles; businessmen and the middle classes tending towards a more sober Edwardian style; wizards, sorcerers, alchemists, academicians and priests preferring elaborate robes and vestments; working classes tending towards solid Victorian/pre WW2 style; adventurers, swashbucklers and the like adopt a style more akin to that of the Renaissance and Restoration; members of the nonhuman races either adopt styles appropriate to their social standing or wear more traditional racial costume. Eccentrics tend to dress in whatever bizarre form they envisage.

Across the Atlantic, American fashion is rather more modern and daring, but would still appear to be along the lines of the 1930s to an external observer, albeit more colourful and brighter. Outfits and clothing are cut more lavishly as a general rule. Hats are still worn nearly universally by men.

In Europe, the postwar tendency has been for sober conservatism in fashion, but there are some divergences beginning to occur in France and Scandinavia; the former incorporates some very distinct Belle Epoque elements.

In the Far East, fashions differ based on the nation. Imperial China places greater emphasis on traditional costumes and uniforms than Imperial Japan and the latter has an increasing distinction between Western style clothes for work and Japanese clothes at home and for leisure.

Overall, there are a lot more uniforms around the world - not just from the military, but for various companies, corporations and societies. University students in Europe often wear what would seem to us to be rather strange and retro livery (similar to @ in some cases) whereas in the United States, they tend towards slightly more rebellious outfits. Some even wear denim jeans, but risk great sanctions for doing so at more conservative establishments.

- Official drug prohibition is focused primarily on the scourge of opium and opiates, with cocaine and various amphetamines such as benzedrine occupying the niche they did in the late Victorian era, albeit frowned upon socially and increasingly subject to legal sanction in many cases. LSD is publicly unknown but is the subject of (ultimately unsuccessful) military research in the United States. Marijuana is a very niche drug and looked upon very darkly; without a Beat Generation, it has not really entered popular culture to any great degree.

- The private possession of weapons is on Victorian levels in Britain, with it being not uncommon for a gentleman to be armed in some circumstances

- Dueling is illegal in many countries and generally frowned upon, but there are circumstances and environments where it occurs.

- The BBC was the sole television service provider in Britain up until very recently and operates on quite Reithian lines and observes certain levels of censorship of government secrets and military operations under powers that have not been revoked since 1945.

- Britain has a Ministry of Information, like many other countries. Public propaganda (certainly not called such, given the negative associations raised by the Nazi experience) does have an ongoing niche.

- The Rastafarian movement met a rather quiet end before it really took off due to a combination of being regarded as sedition by secular authorities and heresy by the Church.

- The office of the Witchfinder General is nothing on the level of the Spanish Inquisition, but no one expects it. It is responsible for hunting down witches and eliminating the use of illegal magics such as necromancy and demonology. Witchcraft and necromancy are the only capital crimes punishable by burning at the stake.

- Cinema and newsreels remains extremely popular. Hollywood and American cinema do not have the same grasp on global popular culture, with significant competition from the British and French film industries, with the British film industry being the beneficiary of advantageous local content regulations. US cinema still dominates, given its sheer size, but Many European actors and directors do not end up in Hollywood. French, Italian, Swedish, German and Japanese cinema are experiencing golden ages that mirror their economic recovery. They have a somewhat higher profile than in @.

- Peace movements and anti-nuclear groups such as CND are comparatively sidelined and viewed dubiously, with heavy infiltration by security services and restrictions on press reports of their activities. They still exist, but number in the hundreds rather than the thousands; the earlier British development of the hydrogen bomb occurred in the heated atmosphere of the Korean War when public opposition ran up against a number of constraints. The perception that the peace movement is run by Reds isn't necessarily a true one, but it has stopped them making great inroads in Britain, Canada and the United States.

- Anarchism is still regarded as a major international terrorist threat as it was in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, along with several good old fashioned Red Scares

- Books, plays, radio programs, television and films are subject to certain degrees of censorship in line with a more Victorian public morality. The notion of the permissive society has not raised its head due in part to the ongoing series of wars in the 1950s.

- Oral contraceptives have not been developed, and such development is heavily frowned upon by a number of churches.

- The Scouts have a larger and more expanded role, with stronger military overtones. Almost two thirds of British boys and girls aged 6 to 18 are members.

- Domestic servants are still not hugely uncommon in Britain and America. There has been an impact from new mechanical inventions, but many middle class households will still often employ a cook/cleaner/general housemaid at the minimum.

- Surrealism and cubism do not attract as much public attention, though Dali and Picasso both draw the attention of the Spanish Inquisition. The position of Satre in France is endangered by his leftist leanings under a strongly anti-communist monarch and government.

- Architecture will not tend towards universal modernism and brutalism, with Le Corbusier being of limited influence even on the Continent. Edwardian Baroque and Victorian styles predominate in Britain, with heavy influence from Gothic Revival and a rather ornate rendering of Art Deco. In the United States, Art Deco and Modernism are the predominant design philosophies, with Stalinist and Social Realist architecture their counterparts in the Soviet Union. In Europe, there are be discernable differences between French, German, Italian, Austro-Hungarian (incorporating Hungarian art nouveau) and Spanish architecture, with all tending towards a combination of modernism and art deco. Scandinavia has a mix of National Romanticism and Nordic Classicism.

Sportz

- In soccer, Brazil is a favourite for the 1970 World Cup, followed by Germany, England, Italy and Austria-Hungary.
- The Dutch have a strong 1970s side onward from there and Argentina have some good players coming through.
- South Africa is not facing any bans or boycotts. They thus add an interesting dimension to Test Cricket in the 1970s, but it isn’t clear how they’d go in other sports.
- In cricket, the West Indies have an even larger talent pool to call upon, Australia have many good players and England have a decent side. The biggest known quantity for me though is India. The combined sides of India and Pakistan from @ present an interesting different factor in a lot of respects - fitting Imran Khan and Kapil Dev into the same side, for example.
- I can’t see World Series Cricket emerging, so the development of the whole tone of the game as well as ODIs will be different…
- Aussie Rules is different, but there doesn’t seem to be an Australian audience for DE.
- Olympic hosts are turning very different: Buenos Aires in 1968, Constantinople in 1972 and NYC in 1976.
- In the USA, basketball is yet to really make the jump to the mainstream. Baseball remains the premier game and hasn’t yet lost its “innocence” through scandal.
- Sunday sports are still contentious and not the accepted norm, with blue laws playing a role in the USA.
- In Britain, soccer matches are still not scheduled on Sundays and cricket matches have a rest day.
- Golf still has an elitist reputation in the USA


Fuud
Food and cuisine has developed differently, with millions of European and American servicemen and women having bought home exotic tastes from extensive deployments in the 1940s and 1950s, as well as the earlier impact of colonial empires.

In the United States, regional cuisines are still highly distinct, but an overarching national style of American food that has developed over 100 years of the melting-pot experience. It is seasonal, regional and traditional. Frozen food and chain restaurants are yet to make significant inroads, with the latter being more likely to increase its market share over the 1960s. Supermarkets and huge groceries are less common than more local stores. Fast food exists, in the form of hamburger, fried chicken, sandwich and hot dog franchises, but the majority of American popular restaurants are classic diners. I'm torn as to whether or not there are any drivers for a much smaller scale development of fast food. The prevailing style is 'home cooking'.

With the absence of Prohibition, more robust domestic beer and wine production has accompanied the development of Continental-style restaurants. Meals and home cooking reflect a more family based society, with only 162 divorces/1000 people (as compared to 264 in 1940 and 385 in 1950). Beef and pork consumption are high at 96lb and 72lb per capita respectively, followed by chicken, fish, turkey and lamb/mutton (29lb, 24lb, 20lb and 18lb). Pizza is yet to make the jump out of the large cities into popular culture. There hasn't been a change of meat classification categories that happened in @ in 1950, which combined Prime and Choice into a new Prime category, known to some as 'prime crime'. This is combined with larger sized animal breeds to yield larger and better quality cuts of meat. Dry aging and grass feeding predominate.

In Britain, food and drink standards haven't undergone the same degree of decline due to the World Wars and rationing as in @ and the culinary situation and tastes are quite Edwardian, with some differences. One is the preference for English rather than French names and labelling that grew out of traditional rivalries. The general diet of the working classes has greatly improved and there is increasing diversity of food stuffs from around the Empire and world.

- Fast food has spread across America since WW2 on account of the motor car. This has emphasised the continued rise of portable foodstuffs, such as hamburgers and fried chicken, and the franchises that specialise in them.
- There has also been accompanying hot dog and sandwich specialist restaurants for the fast food market.
- However, in general, fast foods are yet to fully penetrate and take over the ‘zeitgeist’ and there is still quite the role for regional specialities, cuisines and diners. One of the factors contributing to that is Ray Kroc not being able to buy out the McDonald brothers in 1961; we’ll see some more development of that in 1969.
- The prewar situation is introduced in this book: www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104659750 and as a general rule, that paradigm has yet to be fully extinguished by fast food and is still present.
- General American abundance can be found in the portion sizes and array of dishes offered in restaurants and diners.
- The overall feel is an amalgam of the older prewar situation with the advance of technology, without the drop in quality.
- There has not been the @ 1965 drop in marbling standards by the USDA for beef, which when combined with similar changes in 1975 lead to so-called “prime crime”, or the lowering of the standards of the highest category.
- Factory farming has not boomed as in @, nor has there been the same shift to corn-fed beef cattle.
- On corn, there won’t be the same shift to use of high fructose corn syrup, with the accompanying impact on obesity and health. There is some interesting discussion here: www.scientificamerican.com/article/time ... hink-corn/ . On Dark Earth, there won’t be the same use for ethanol or HFCS, so where does it go? A mixture of animal feed for poultry and pigs, greater domestic consumption and big exports of food, both as aid and commercially.
- It is still common for city/suburb dwellers, where practicable, to have a garden and fruit trees, as a hangover from the wartime experience of emphasising home production.
- There will not be a shift of the 1950s/60s food pyramid/recommendations to the 1970s one, which contributed towards obesity increases. Sugar consumption, whilst higher in the US than the rest of the world, is still under @ levels.
- If you were to walk down the aisles of a DE US supermarket, you’d see less heavily processed foodstuffs.
- Californian regional cuisine is a bit developmentally different, without the same direct border with Mexico.
- Mexican food and Tex-Mex food hasn’t really made the jump from Texas and the South West to the rest of the United States.
- Nachos haven’t been invented yet.
- Across the Atlantic, in Britain, we see a tad more change from 1968 in @. The combination of Imperial/Commonwealth food politics and domestic agricultural policy means there is quite a lot of produce available at steady prices.
- The lack of the impact of postwar austerity and rationing has meant there wasn’t the same drop off in relative quality and standards of cuisine.
- In general, there is more and better fruits and vegetables available; and more meat is consumed on a per capital basis.
- Milk and dairy consumption is quite high.
- Changes in migration patterns have meant that Indian and Chinese restaurants are still confined to the largest cities, rather than starting to spread out. The historical British culinary interest in curry has just started to really take off at this point, but here is somewhat muted and comes in the form of more Anglo-Indian adaptions: rather than a butter chicken and rice, one would find a beef curry with vegetables, onions and curry powder served with mashed potatoes.
- When Indian restaurants start to spread, they will have a much more esteemed position/cultural cachet, as well as serving some of the more elaborate dishes.
- Persian restaurants have started to spread around the great international cities in a much heavier way and more distinctly.
- Likewise, a somewhat different style of West Indian/Caribbean cooking is diffusing internationally, combining the Caribbean elements of @ with the different Anglo-Cuban evolution of that cuisine.
- Some wartime nastiness with Italy did cause some damage to the number of Italian restaurants, cafes, ice cream sellers and so forth that began to increase from the 1950s in @. Pasta is largely unknown, saved for tinned spaghetti and macaroni, and pizza is an alien foreign delicacy.
- Fewer Berni Inns as of 1968 (as compared to 1970), but other steakhouses, chophouses and carveries are a bit more common, with higher standard fare and larger portions. Their identity and style is deliberately very stereotypically British (read John Bull and The Roast Beef of Olde England) as a result of cultural differentiation and subtle government encouragement.
- Continued Ministry of Food run British Restaurants provide set menus cheaply, both as an aid to public nutrition and as a skeleton/cadre structure for expansion into wartime/crisis public feeding.
- Beyond some limited London restaurants and some places near larger US bases, the hamburger is yet to take off. There was no Wimpy’s franchise opening by Lyons in 1954.
- The major British ‘fast food’ is fish and chips, followed by meat pies and various types of roast/corned meat sandwiches.
- Pub opening and closing times were regulated to a slightly reduced degree during each world war and quickly reverted to the pre 1915 norm in 1919 and 1946 respectively, which allowed for opening between 0900 and midnight, with many city pubs and those near large factories/shipyards/armaments works having licences to open beyond and outside the norm.
- Off licences by and large don’t exist in the same broad fashion.
- No pubs are permitted to open on Sundays.
- Fish consumption is high, driven by supply and MoF encouragement, which in turn is motivated by the multiple uses/strategic value of the fishing fleet. Fish on Friday is a widely followed tradition on cultural grounds.
- There is no dearth of flavour, as some commentators have pejoratively ascribed to British food of the 1960s in @, which comes from the base quality and natural tastes of the foodstuffs, use of quite a lot of traditional herbs, no decline in the medieval/early modern English popularity of garlic and some rather special new inventions.
- These are a combination of @ spices, flavoured salts, MSG and equivalents and a bit of a fantastical Willy Wonka approach; think what Heston Blumenthal and his ilk could accomplish with real culinary magic.
- The other major food related areas where magic has played a role are storage/preservation (a subsection of which is military rations) and cooking devices. There are ovens that can roast a 25lb turkey to perfection in half an hour, cook 12 dishes differently and simultaneously and other such ‘marvels’. Frozen meals can be heated quickly with a fair bit better quality.
- More venison is generally available and mutton and veal retain their respective niches.
- Chip pans have been replaced by safer household deep fryers.
- Beer is served at 36 degrees Fahrenheit which, due to some magically assisted developments over the centuries, results in no loss of flavour profile, which is a bit richer, due to continued use of gruyt herbs as well as hops.
- Dwarven ale is stronger (16-25%), richer in taste and through some secret process, contains a fair whack of the necessary calories, vitamins and minerals needed for nominal survival, although not the lot.
- The halflings population is quite ‘food centric’ and provides many of the great cooks of England, as well as instructors at military culinary schools.
- French cuisine has less of a cachet/hold over the popular imagination as the epitome of food excellence. One of the unfortunate byproducts, from an external universe perspectives, of greater prosperity has been the lack of a breakthrough for Mediterranean cuisine as achieved by Elizabeth David in @
- School dinners/lunches are still provided in the majority of institutions, along with free orange juice and milk.
- More wine is made in southern England and Lyonesse, but perhaps half of it is grape wine and the rest is various forms of fruit wine.
- Abroad, there have also been changes. Due to the lack of an equivalent to the Gastarbeiter programme in Germany, doner kebabs have not begun to become popular.
- A more cohesive Austrian-Hungarian fusion cuisine has begun to develop over the 20th century with advances in transport and storage technology. Various forms of schnitzel are very popular and are starting to break out internationally.
- Given the lack of the same Greek-Turkish population exchanges of the 1920s in @, gyros/yiros haven’t made the jump, either to Greece or the Greek diaspora.
- French cooking hasn’t seen the emergence of nouvelle cuisine to supplant cuisine classique.
- Television chefs have made earlier inroads, with Julia Child, Graham Kerr, Fanny Craddock, Delia Smith (five years before @) and James Beard all making inroads. Keith Floyd will be joining their ranks sooner as one of my rare personal taste inserts, as I enjoy him a great deal.
- Martian and Venusian dishes are really out of this world.
- As a general rule, whether in the USA, Britain, Europe or the wider world, that golden moment of regional cuisines/styles combined with modern tech and capacity has extended a little longer.
Last edited by Simon Darkshade on Tue Nov 22, 2022 1:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Simon Darkshade
Posts: 1423
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:55 am

Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion

Post by Simon Darkshade »

US Military Development in the 1970s

USN Ship Plans for the 1970s:

Aircraft Carriers
- The remaining Essex class CVSs (Oriskany, Reprisal, Bonhomme Richard, Crown Point, Port Royal, Valley Forge, Philippines Sea, Lake Erie) are to be decommissioned by 1972, replaced by a US version of the Anglo-American CVL
- The Enterprise class CVAN programme of 12 ships (Enterprise, Langley, Princeton, Intrepid, Hornet, Wasp, Yorktown, Lexington, Gettysburg, Essex, Ticonderoga, Franklin) are all in service or working up.
- The Midway class CVAs' (rebuilt/refitted and reclassified from CVB) service life is due to extend to 1985, but projections are for the frontline role of the first four carriers to be reduced from 1980. Their replacement will be the new CVN design almost ready, a larger and more powerful ship with more capacity for aviation fuel and larger magazines; this is rather different from the @ Nimitz class

Battleships
- The latter half of the 1960s saw a major shift in the USN battlefleet, with the Washington class decomissioned in 1966/67 and the South Dakotas starting to go in 1968. By 1970, all 12 ships have been decommissioned, leaving the 6 Iowas and 6 Montanas as the remaining conventional WW2 built battleships in USN service.
- The 4 Texas class BBGNs (Texas, California, New York, Pennsylvania) have been joined by the Virginia class (Virginia (1963), Ohio (1963), Florida (1964), Mississippi (1964)) and North Dakota class (North Dakota (1965), Colorado (1966), Tennessee (1967), Minnesota (1968)). Currently under construction are Arizona (1970), Oregon (1970), Nevada (1971), Sylvania (1971), South Carolina (1972), Arkansas (1972), Maryland (1973) and New Mexico (1973). All of these sub classes are incremental improvements upon the first BBGNs

Battlecruisers
- The Hawaii class battlecruisers are due to be decommissioned from 1976 and there have been no formal plans yet for their replacement; the Monitor class are seen as eminently capable and would probably serve as a basis thereof

Cruisers
- The wartime CLGs and last of the pure-gun Baltimores are now gone and now, with the end of Vietnam, the Des Moines class heavy cruisers will join them. The remaining 16 Baltimore and Des Moines class partial missile conversions are to decommission by 1975.
- Replacing them have been the 18 Indianapolis and 14 Birmingham class CGs (which have levelled out at ~24,000t) and steady production of the 13 Long Beach and 12 Minneapolis class CGNs (~36,000t)
- Standardizing cruiser construction on an atomic powered design is seen as the most likely outcome for the 1970s and beyond

Destroyers
- Gone are the Allen M. Sumners and going are the Gearing FRAMs. Replacing both has been the 1960s successor to the 58 Charles F. Addams class DDGs, the Halsey class DDG. 29 have been commissioned thus far with a further 16 under construction and 11 projected under the 1970 and 1971 programmes
- Conversion of the Forrest Sherman class destroyers to DDGs will be complete by 1974, with the process not expected to greatly extend the service life of the class past 1984
- The combination of these two developments is one driver among many for a new, larger DDG design for the 1970s and beyond that will begin construction later in 1970. This is will not be the @ Sprucans, but more like the Kidds with some different elements and markedly different weapons systems. The Nimitz class destroyers are designed to be the USN's backbone for the coming decades

Destroyer Escorts/Frigates
- The John C. Butler class are now gone, replaced by the Knox class/the US version of the Anglo-American-Commonwealth Joint Anti-Submarine Frigates. 28 have been completed out of a projected 84, with twelve later ships shifted to the next projected class (see below)
- Further 1960s construction of the Bradley class DEGs totaled 26 for a class of 56.
- The next vessels to be replaced are the Dealey class DEs; that will take the form of an enlarged general purpose guided missile destroyer escort, named the Spruance class after the late WW2 admiral

Submarines
- The Balaos and Tench class are now gone, leaving only the Tangs and Albacores as the vestiges of the USN conventional sub fleet
- The Sturgeon class are still in full production, but coming up is an analogue to the 688 class in terms of its advance over the Sturgeons. Larger, faster, quieter, deeper diving and carrying more weapons, including VLS SLCMs
- New boomers are starting to be thought about; the beginning of a long process

Amphibs
- Joining the Normandy class CVHAs have been the Tarawa class LHAs, a new and larger ship with a well deck
- The amphibious fleet has paid a price for Vietnam, but new major LPD and LSD designs are ready to go and older LSTs and LKAs have been replaced
- The LPAs have been decommissioned to reserve

USN Aircraft Plans for the 1970s

1.) The Grumman F-14 Tomcat is due to enter service in mid 1969 to replace the current mixture of F-8 Crusader III and F-4J Phantom II fighter squadrons. It will be unquestionably the most powerful carrier fighter in the world, combining a very long range, exceptionally heavy armament (up to 8 AIM-54 air to air missiles), advanced new avionics, versatile ground attack capacity and superb dog fighting performance.

2.) The mainstay of the fleet over Vietnam has been the Phantom and it is considered that it will continue as a frontline fighter-bomber throughout the 1970s whilst it’s replacement is developed under the VFAX programme. This began in 1967 and aims to develop a fighter-bomber that provides at least a 25% improvement over the Phantom across the board.

3.) The current Light Attack A-7 Corsair II and A-4 Skyhawk squadrons and the Attack Squadrons equipped with the A-6 Intruder are to be replaced by the VAX, a single supersonic naval attack aircraft capable of carrying a large conventional or nuclear payload in a strike role, with an explicit anti-ship mission speciality.

4.) The combination A-5 Vigilante and F-111B Vindicator II have performed the heavy attack/carrier bomber role with aplomb for several years, but current plans call for them to be replaced with an evolved and improved version of the F-111B by 1972. Development of a replacement of the A-3 Skywarrior in the stand off nuclear delivery role is well underway.

5.) Development of the licenced McDonnell Douglas AV-8 Harrier into a more advanced ground attack/close air support aircraft is underway, with significant advances anticipated, given the more focused USN and USMC light attack requirement.

6.) Replacement of the S-2 Tracker ASW aircraft with a multirole twin jet aircraft combining ASW, ASuW, ground attack and reconnaissance has been given a high priority, given the imminent retirement of the older anti submarine CVSs.

USAF Aircraft Plans for the 1970s

Aerospace Defense Command

1.) Current plans are to replace the F-106 and residual ANG F-102 units with the Convair FIX, a large single engine cranked delta wing interceptor with some resemblance of role to the F-106X. It is to be powered by the J96, an evolved version of the J58, giving a top speed of Mach 4 and have an unrefueled combat radius of 750 miles. Its design parameters place a great significance on aerial maneuverability, with the inclusion of thrust vectoring technology one result of this. Armament is to consist of a 25mm Vulcan autocannon, integrated rocket packs and a combination of short and long range AAMs. Its primary role is to be the (relative) short-medium range defence of the United States and Canada, but foreign combat deployments are also envisaged.

2.) The projected replacement for the F-108 and F-112 long range force is the North American XF-20 (formerly the XF-120). It is a large interceptor that has a physical resemblance to the NR 349, but has two large engines (evolved versions of the J93) and a near delta wing. It has a combat radius of 1250 miles, which gives it an exceptionally significant strategic role when forward deployed abroad to Alaska, Greenland, Iceland and Japan. It is to be armed with 8 very large LR AAMs or 12 AIM-54 and have a top speed of over Mach 4, which presents issues of specialised fuels and infrastructure.

In addition to the two new specialised interceptors, an adapted version of the XF-15 is to be procured to fill the middleweight fighter-interceptor role and Lockheed is developing a rocket powered point defence fighter.

Tactical Air Command

3.) The McDonnell-Douglas F-4 Phantom has replaced the F-100 and F-107 fighter-bombers in regular USAF service and has built up a formidable reputation in Vietnam in this role. It is scheduled to remain as the premier fighter-bomber through the 1970s, with plans to field improved variants with new avionics and tactical bombing systems and improved engines.

4.) The Northrop-Grumman F-5 Viper fills the fairly new role of short range battle fighter, providing a mixture of ground attack, close air support and air superiority escort over the contested battlefield airspace. It has performed it well, albeit in a rather benign environment over South Vietnam and current thinking calls for it to be eventually replaced by a new, improved design during the coming decade.

5.) The McDonnell-Douglas YF-15 is to replace the F-8 and F-8 Crusader III in the air superiority fighter role from 1969. It is the product of the FX programme, having been under development since the early 1960s. Every aspect of its design has been driven by the desire to be a world beater - speed, maximum altitude, rate of climb, manoeuvrability, radar, avionics, electronic warfare and armament. The F-15 will have a top speed of over Mach 3, a service ceiling of over 80,000ft and a combat radius of 960 miles. It will have an argument of two GAU-10 25mm autocannon, four AIM-85 Agile short range all aspect AAMs and up to eight of the new MRAAM. There are currently plans for integration of advanced conformal fuel tanks and a laser raygun as they are developed.

6.) The YF-16 Lightweight Strike Fighter is to replace the F-104 and F-101 in the day fighter, fighter-interceptor and tactical strike roles. It is a singled engined fighter that has a top speed of Mach 2.5, a combat ceiling of 60,000ft and a combat radius of 500 miles. Equipped with a pair of GAU-10 25mm cannon, it is primarily designed as a highly maneuverable tactical fighter, which is reflected in its innovative bubble canopy design, digital fly-by-wire system and helmet mounted sights integrated with all-aspect missiles. However, it is envisaged as naturally developing into a multirole tactical fighter-bomber due to the developmental potential present in its design.

7.) Equipping the USAF's skyship aerocarriers and planned for deployment to Europe and the Far East is the Curtiss-Wright F-109, a multirole VSTOL fighter. It has a cranked delta wing and a top speed of Mach 2.5. It is a longer ranged, more ambitious aircraft than the British P.1154 Harrier and this is reflected in its relatively high cost.

8.) The Boeing F-111 is in full service with TAC and USAFE as a long strike fighter/interdiction aircraft, with new variants of all-weather/night heavy fighters also becoming operational in 1968. It has earned a formidable reputation in the Vietnam War for its versatile performance and striking power. The largest deployment of the F-111 to date is with the Third Air Force in Britain, where over 350 planes are deployed and production of the type is set to continue throughout the 1970s to provide for a similarly large contingent to be based in Japan as part of the Far East Air Forces.

9.) The XF-20 is eventually envisaged as being developed into a strategic fighter in the manner of the F-108 and thus having an offensive role.'

10.) Lockheed are at the early stages of developing a top secret attack fighter/penetrator with innovative anti-radar features and some of
the advanced materials, propulsion and avionics derived from the 1947 [REDACTED].

11.) The A-4 Skyhawk, once seen as being foisted upon the Air Force by the Thompson Administration, has performed very well in Vietnam as a light attack fighter and close air support aircraft. It is to be replaced by the Light Attack Experimental (LAX).

12.) The few A-6 Intruders and the more numerous A-7 Corsair IIs will be replaced by a ground based adaption of the USN VAX towards the end of the decade.

13.) The Fairchild-Republic A-10 Thunderbird made its combat debut in 1968 and the USAF has plans to acquire almost 1200 aircraft in total.

14.) The replacement of the ad hoc gunships of the 1960s with the AXX Gunship is well underway. It is a jet powered long range/large endurance aircraft with highly innovative VSTOL capacity and a considerable armament of guns, rockets and guided missiles. Use of advanced armour, ECM and defensive missiles has been incorporated to provide for greater survivability in a contested aerial battlefield, increasing its tactical flexibility.

15.) Replacing the vestiges of the B-56 and B-66 fleets will be the B-75 Marauder, the light bomber version of the BX programme.

16.) An adapted version of the F-111, provisionally designated the FB-111, will replace the B-68 and B-58E medium tactical bombers currently in TAC service.

Strategic Air Command

17.) Eventual replacement of the B-52 Stratofortress proceeds at a steady pace, but the ambitious parameters of the design mean that it will be a considerable number of years before a winning design is selected and prototype produced.

18.) Replacement of the B-47 and B-58 with a single medium strategic bomber is far more advanced and the Convair YB-76 is anticipated as beginning within the next several years, being the medium bomber design of the BX programme. It is a four engined aircraft with a top speed of Mach 2.8 and a combat range of 5000 miles with a full bombload.

19.) The North American B-70 Valkyrie programme will be completed by 1972 when it reaches its target force of 650 combat aircraft.

20.) The Boeing YB-72 nuclear powered bomber continues its programme of testing amid debate over the aircraft's future. The immense cost of the project is starting to weigh against the strategic advantages it offers.

Military Airlift Command Plans for the 1970s

1.) Replacing the C-123 (the @ YC-134) fleet in the tactical role will be a further 400 C-125s. This twin jet transport has a range of 1500 nautical miles and an excellent rough field performance combined with very short take off and landing distances.

2.) The USAF aims to replace the aging C-130 Hercules with the YC-15, the winner of its Advanced Medium STOL Transport competition. It is superior to its predecessor in every characteristic, having a longer range at 2500nm with a heavier load at a top speed of over 600mph, whilst still having the reliability and toughness that marked the Hercules’ service in the 1950s and 1960s.

3.) The C-141 programme will be completed by 1970, with a total of 1165 Starlifters acquired in the heavy transport role, fully replacing the residual C-135 and C-124 fleets in USAFR and ANG service.

4.) Completion of acquisition of the Lockheed C-150 Galaxy is due by the end of 1972 with the delivery of the 460th of the six engined superheavy transport. It’s capability to carry four M60 tanks across the Atlantic Ocean is seen as a vital one for reinforcement of the US Army in Europe.

5.) Development of the CXX ultraheavy strategic transport has been ongoing since 1966, with interest coming from Britain for, at the minimum, cooperation in combined development. It is considered that a long range jet aircraft, even with a cargo of 500t, or but a tenth of the payload of a small skyship, would give certain strategic advantages to rapid deployment of U.S. forces to Asia, Europe, the Middle East or Africa.

6.) An operational requirement for a Supersonic Long Range Transport was issued in 1967, with a view towards facilitating the speedy movement of troops across the Atlantic to mate up with prepositioned heavy equipment and armour vehicles in Germany and France.
Last edited by Simon Darkshade on Tue Nov 22, 2022 1:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Simon Darkshade
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Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion

Post by Simon Darkshade »

British Military Development in the 1970s

Royal Navy Ship Plans for the 1970s

Aircraft Carriers
- The 5 Malta class carriers are to be replaced by 4 new construction CVNs over the second half of the decade. They are scheduled to go to reserve, but it is unlikely they would be recommissioned short of a major world war.
- The CVSL programme will be completed by 1972, allowing a shift in priority to more of the CVEs and commando carriers.

Battleships
- The KGVs were decommissioned from 1966 and the Lions will begin to follow in 1969. The Vanguards will begin to follow from 1971 and the Superbs from 1973. This will lead to a rather large contraction in the battlefleet. In addition to 1960s construction, new ships will be ordered from 1970, so that a target fleet of 15 capital ships can be maintained by 1975

Battlecruisers
- Development of a new 90,000t design is well underway with the aim of replacing the old decommissioned Orions, providing a heavy carrier escort, countering Soviet and Chinese ships and leading independent surface action groups. It is differentiated from a battleship by its slightly smaller guns, reduced armour, increased speed, different radar suite and greater array of anti-ship missiles

Cruisers
- This ship type is where the RN is about to suffer the largest drop, with the decommissioning of the wartime Hero and Tiger class missile conversions. This loss of 24 ships will leave the RN with 32 Leander CLGs and 12 County CAGNs, short of its requirement of 60 ships (two Leanders and one County for each fleet carrier and a minimum of twelve ships to cover other deployments and amphibious forces).
- In addition to further Counties, a new class of lighter guided missile cruisers is needed, which would take the better part of a decade to design and produce from 1968.

Destroyers
- One factor allowing the RN to reduce cruiser numbers is the versatile Type 42 ‘Town class’ DLGs which, at 12500t, are the weight of a Second World War light cruiser. Their armament of 5.25” guns is the same as older destroyers and the new Type 21 frigates. They are to carry two new SAM systems and greatly increased SSM and ASM batteries.
- The oldest DDGs will be converted to FFGs as they enter service (A, B, C and D class), whilst the others are to be upgraded gradually.

Frigates
- The RN has prioritised the Type 21 in the second half of the 1960s and this will be followed by construction of a specialised AAW version in the 1970s. The frontline force will then consist of the Type 21s, the new Type 22s and the Tribals, with the River class being mostly in reserve, along with the reclassified Hunt class. The Type 12 Whitbys have been sold due to their lack of helicopter facilities.

Corvettes
Two types of corvette have entered production and service in the last few years. The first are the Castle class, a fast (35kts), multi-purpose ships, with the first commissioned in June 1968. They displace 1250t and are armed with two single 4"/70 guns, two twin 2.5" automatic guns, an array of light rapid fire guns, Sea Wolf anti-aircraft missiles, Paladin anti-ship missiles, light anti-ship/strike missiles, ASW rockets and a Westland Sea King helicopter. They have some similarities to the Alvand class frigates sold by Vosper to the Iranians around this time. The 4"/70 is a placeholder of sorts, being used experimentally; a gun around the 100-105mm range would be quite suitable for such light surface combatants and is derived from a Vickers design and elements of the L7 tank gun.

Their role is convoy escort and anti-surface warfare in the North Sea, Western Approaches and particularly in the Norwegian Sea and Baltic.

The second are the 500t Flower class, a smaller, faster (45kts) ship designed for shorter range operations, coastal patrol and littoral seas.

OPVs
- The Black Swans have been split off from Coastal Forces and provide another layer of ASW escorts.
- Larger sloops discussed in ANJ are entering service

Amphibious Warships
- New commando carriers are the 1970s priority, along with modernisation of the fairly young remainder of the amphibious fleet.

Coastal Forces

Speedy class Patrol Boat
A new, very fast interceptor boat of 250t equipped with light strike missiles, rapid fire guns and other advanced weapons systems. It has a top speed of 60 knots and has a dual gas turbine/waterjet propulsion with arcane augmentation. They are designed for operations in the Far East, the Baltic and the North Sea, with a specific role defending oil platforms, Floating Fortresses and operating in the fjords of Norway.

Hydrofoils
Design of a hydrofoil attack boat is underway.

Argent class Super Hovercraft
Displacing 2500t and with a nominal top speed of 125 knots, these are more of an amalgam of WIG/ekranoplans and hovercraft. Their main role is to carry a large number of troops across the Channel quickly, with a secondary purpose of minelaying and anti-surface warfare.

Coastal Forces currently fields 29 Strong, 36 Faithful, 42 Brave, 25 Bold, 27 Dark and 16 Gay class fast patrol/attack boats, with the first two classes being post 1960 designs.

Strong class Fast Attack Boats: 450t, 165ft x 29ft x 7ft, 1 x 2.5", 8 x Paladin ASM, 1 x Legion CWS, 12 x Sea Fox SAM, 60kts
Faithful class Fast Patrol Boats: 360t, 150ft x 25ft x 7ft, 1 x 2.5", 8 x Paladin ASM, 12 x Sea Fox SAM, 58kts
Brave class Fast Patrol Boats: 250t, 100ft x 25ft x 6ft, 1 x 25mm, 4 x Paladin ASM, 56kts
Bold class Fast Patrol Boats: 200t, 92ft x 24ft x 6ft, 1 x 25mm, 2 x Paladin ASM, 48kts
Dark class Fast Patrol Boats: 180t, 85ft x 24ft x 6ft, 1 x 25mm, 2 x Paladin ASM, 42kts
Gay class Fast Patrol Boats: 160t, 80ft x 24ft x 6ft, 1 x 25mm, 2 x Paladin ASM, 42kts

Submarines

The Royal Navy has now disposed of the last wartime submarines of the Amphion class from active and reserve service.

There are two classes of conventional powered submarines in service, the Oberons and Porpoises. The first of the latter are just entering service, being among the fastest and deepest diving conventional subs in the world, but this capacity comes at considerable cost. Sixteen boats are planned initially, giving the Royal Navy a total of 48 SSKs. Their primary roles are patrol and ASW, with secondary intelligence and reconnaissance missions, particularly in the littoral zones; protection of the principle Home atomic submarine bases at Faslane, Scapa Flow, Rosyth, Devonport, Pembroke Dock, Lough Swilly, Dingle Bay and Caer Llynar is an increasing priority.

Dreadnought
5200t, 380ft x 32ft x 30ft, 8 x 24” TT, 30kts

Warspite, Valiant
5250t, 385ft x 32ft x 30ft, 8 x 24” TT, 30kts

The oldest three British atomic submarines, Dreadnought, Warspite and Valiant are in a decreased operational status due to their advancing age and are primarily used for training exercises and weapons testing. They are to be decommissioned from 1970 as they are replaced by more effective boats after hard use over their active careers.

Barham, Devastation, Inflexible, Edgar
5400t, 395ft x 32ft x 32ft, 8 x 24” TT, 30kts

The Barham class entered service from 1955/56 and are regarded as good second line fleet submarines for action in the Far East and Mediterranean.

Revenge, Royal Oak, Renown, Repulse
5600t, 400ft x 35ft x 32ft, 8 x 24” TT, 32kts

The Revenge class entered service from 1957/58 and all serve with the Mediterranean Fleet as of 1968.

Rodney, Howe, Benbow, Hawke, Anson, Collingwood
6250t, 425ft x 35ft x 35ft, 8 x 24” TT, 35kts

The Rodneys were the first substantially different and larger British SSNs and their increased speed (from improved reactor power) has given them exceptional flexibility. They are concentrated in the Mediterranean and Far East.

Churchill, Cromwell, Cressy, Caesar, Conquest, Cornwallis, Cerberus, Concord, Caerleon, Consort, Crown, Chivalrous
7500t, 475ft x 36ft x 35ft, 20 x Supermarine Lionheart SLCM, 8 x 32” TT, 32kts

The Churchill class submarines carried the new Lionheart strategic cruise missiles, whilst retaining a primary role as fleet boats and eight entered service from 1959-1962, with the final four following on in 1963-64. They are concentrated in the Grand Fleet, with four in the Mediterranean. They were the first to field the new 32" torpedo tubes, which allow for the launch of further cruise missiles, improved torpedoes (24", 32" and the 8" counter-torpedo) and further new emerging weapons.

Drake, Raleigh, St. Vincent, Blake, Albemarle, Montagu, Russell, Exmouth, Hawkins, Frobisher, Effingham, Ratcliffe, Rupert, Jellicoe, Beatty, Cunningham
7500t, 425ft x 36ft x 34ft, 8 x Supermarine Lionheart SLCM, 8 x 32" TT, 36kts

The Drakes are the backbone of the Grand Fleet and are noted as being quieter than the first generation of RN attack boats, serving as something of a bridging class to their successors.

Racehorse, Rapid, Rocket, Rover, Roebuck, Reynard, Rorqual, Raglan, Ruby, Redgauntlet, Ready, Rambler
10,000t, 460ft x 45ft x 36ft, 12 x Supermarine Lionheart SLCM, 12 x Hawker-Siddeley Paladin ASM, 8 x 32" TT, 40kts

The R class are the backbone of the RN's mid 1960s construction increase and the first to carry fully integrated Paladin anti-ship missiles in vertical launcher cells, allowing more torpedoes to be carried (40 as compared to 32 for the Drakes and Churchills). They are concentrated with the Grand Fleet, but some boats will be deployed to the Far East in 1969. They are to be the first boats to deploy the de Havilland Blue Moon long range naval strike missile at the end of 1968.

Sovereign, Spitfire, Speedwell, Supreme, Spearhead, Swift, Strongbow, Spiteful; Seadog, Swordsman, Scorpion, Seawolf

The first four S class boats were laid down in 1967 and they are scheduled to enter service in 1971. They will feature a significant increase in general capability and armament, including sail-launched anti-aircraft missiles

SSBNs:

Resolution, Retribution, Resistance, Redoubtable, Ramillies, Reprisal, Raider, Regulus, Romulus, Retaliation, Regent, Ranger, Resurgent, Reward, Robust, Roman, Rigorous, Radiant, Ready, Restless
10,000t, 465ft x 45ft x 35ft, 24 English Electric Green Knight SLBM, 4 x 24” TT, 25kts

Construction of the Resolution class is now complete at 20 boats, with a successor class under design for entry into service in the latter part of the 1970s.

FAA and RNAS

1.) The de Havilland Vanguard fighter is a top line plane not that far behind the Tomcat in performance and fills a similar role.
2.) Filling the fighter-bomber niche is the Phantom and there is no pressing need for its replacement, allowing the process to be unrushed.
3.) The attack role is filled by the Buccaneer, which, although a 1950s design, is still a very capable carrier strike plane.
4.) The Hawker-Siddeley P.1121 Merlin is an extremely capable naval strike aircraft, but the RN does want something with longer legs.
5.) Leading the world as a carrier based bomber, the Supermarine Excalibur provides range and performance. There are efforts underway to make full use of this by incorporating air to air missiles and longer range strike missiles.
6.) On the light carriers and the new escort carriers, on capital ships and cruisers and on every major amphibious ship, we find the Sea Harrier. It is versatile, capable and fairly short ranged compared to the big carrier jets.

Therefore, the major priorities are for 2 and 4. Initially invited to tender by the Admiralty have been Fairey, Hawker-Siddeley, de Havilland and Bristol. Merging the two roles was proposed but discouraged. Simply converting the Tornado for either has its supporters.

The RNAS has avoided being foisted with the F-111 despite heavy lobbying and will field the TSR-2 as a replacement for the Valiant in most of its bomber roles.

British Army 1970 Notes

For Regiments of Foot and the Guards, they have 2 regular battalions (with 12 Regiments of Foot having 3rd and 4th regular battalions, namely the Manchester Regiment, Royal Northumberland Fusiliers, Lancashire Fusiliers, Royal Scots, Black Watch, Royal Irish, Essex Regiment, Middlesex Regiment, Gloucestershire Regiment King’s Regiment (Liverpool), Royal Dwarven Regiment and the Royal Fusiliers). The Rifle Regiments field 4 regular battalions.

Territorial Army
Guards: 2 TA battalions per regiment (3rd and 4th)
Rifles: 4 TA battalions per regiment (5th, 6th, 7th, 8th)
Foot: 4 TA battalions per regiment (usually 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th, with 5th-8th for the 12 ‘extra’ regiments outlined above.
There is the special case of the London Regiment, which has 30 TA battalions (3-32), reflecting the size of the metropolis.

There are also a number (42) of TA only regiments with a strength of 1 battalion each:

Royal Wight Fusiliers
Manx Regiment
Anglesey Regiment

Royal Jersey Regiment
Royal Alderney Regiment
Royal Guernsey Light Infantry
Royal Sark Musketeers

Royal Scilly Light Infantry
Royal Avalon Musketeers
King’s Own Lyonesse Fusiliers

Northern Isles Regiment
Glasgow Highlanders, Highland Light Infantry
Inverness Battalion
Atholl Highlanders
Queen’s Edinburgh Rifles (Royal Scots)
City of Edinburgh Regiment
Lothian Rifles
Selkirkshire Regiment
Skye Regiment
Royal Midlothian Regiment
Faroe Regiment
Stewart Highlanders

The Duke of York’s Irish Regiment
Irish Rangers
Loyal Limerick Regiment
Donegal Light Infantry
Royal County Down Regiment
Green Linnets
Royal Belfast Light Infantry
Clare Light Infantry
Royal Gallowglasses
Waterford Light Infantry
Londonderry Regiment
Royal Cork Fusiliers
Kerry Regiment
Tyrone Fusiliers
Armagh Regiment
The Duke of Connaught's Own Sligo Light Infantry
Tipperary (Duke of Clarence's Munster) Regiment
Wicklow Rifles
Galway Regiment
Mayo Rifles

- Their role is home defence, along with various 5th-8th battalions
- The various 3rd and 4th TA battalions have different roles, ranging from the BAOR to Imperial Service. It generally depends on their seniority and readiness
- The London Regiment battalions have mixed missions based on their seniority and strength; 3rd-16th have more active roles, whereas 17th-32nd are home defence
- The TA has 12 combat divisions, 12 second line home defence divisions on a greatly reduced manning and general organisation basis and 12 third line divisions which are entirely paper units to be filled by reservists upon mobilisation. Whilst the last category are nominally M + 240, there are bottlenecks in the way of that plan of a mainly logistical nature
- The TA is also responsible for the vestigal Anti-Aircraft and Coastal Defence Commands, which are on the verge of retirement; most of the AA positions are largely automated in any case, requiring far fewer men for gun crews

Army Reserve
- The main mission of the Army Reserve is reinforcement of existing regular and some TA units (Ready Reserve), but on mobilisation, they also form the headquarters and support units for 4 Category A Army Reserve divisions (Guards, Light, 24th and 25th) which draw upon regular army units; 12 Army Reserve brigades to provide garrison defence at home, in the Atlantic and Mediterranean; 240 battalions for Category C and D mobilisation units (Cs are 29, 32, 36 and 40 and Ds are 13, 14, 16, 21, 22, 23, 26, 27, 28, 30, 35); and 120 Composite General Reserve battalions
- The Category C divisions are M + 240, whereas the Category D divisions are M + 360, which is being generous. The latter are designed to be training units on a home organization
- Composite General Reserve battalions are units drawn up from older but still capable reserve classes and are usually designated for home defence or LoC defence
- The Army Reserve also supplies General Support Units (GSUs) which are company sized formations for guard duties protecting railway stations, power stations, armaments factories, airports, dockyards, supply dumps, radar facilities, bridges, gas works and the outer perimeter of nuclear facilities. Approximately 480 companies are to be formed
- There are also General Support Units (Transport) which form transport squadrons

Home Guard
- Strength of a little over 1 million men in 1429 battalions, which are understrength in peacetime where they largely march on paper
- Separate from the general regimental system, but 'associated' with various county regiments
- Their roles upon mobilisation include local patrols, static checkpoints, guard duties, additional defence for airfields and sensitive facilities, POW camps, coastal defences and LoC defence for TA formations if an enemy should come


(More to come)

Royal Air Force Plans and Projections for the 1970s:

RAF Combat Aircraft

As of 1968, the RAF has the following combat aircraft and role combination:

Hawker-Siddeley Harrier: Attack Fighter
Gloster Lion: CAS
McDonnell-Douglas/Hawker-Siddeley Phantom: Fighter/Ground Attack/Tactical Recce
DH Tornado: Strike Fighter
Vickers Thunderbolt: Strike Bomber

Hawker-Siddeley Merlin: Strike Fighter/Bomber
Supermarine Sunstar: Air Superiority Fighter
EE Lightning: Interceptor
Fairey Delta II: Long Range Fighter
Avro Arrow: Very Long Range/Escort Fighter

Supermarine Eagle TSR-2: Medium Strike Bomber
Avro Vulcan: Strategic Heavy Bomber
Handley-Page Vengeance: Strategic Medium Pathfinder Bomber
Avro 730 Vindicator: Strategic Recce
Supermarine Victory: Strategic Heavy Penetration Bomber

There is a desire to consolidate this array of sixteen types down to a dozen; emphasise/support/protect British aviation manufacturers; and save money where possible.

To this end, the following ideas for the 1970s are developing:

- Combine the roles of the Arrow and Delta II in a single aircraft
- Combine the roles of the Vengeance and Vindicator in a single Mach 3+ bomber
- Eventually develop the Tornado so it can replace the Phantom; spread out the cost and development
- The “Spitfire” and “Hurricane” replace the Sunstar and Merlin respectively

The Harrier will likely be ‘replaced’ by a developed ASTOVL version of the same general design with an enlarged big wing, larger engine, advanced radar, titanium armour and a front end looking like the P.1216.

The Hurricane will end up looking like a cross between the HS P.1202 and the Mirage 2000, with elements of the HS P.1096 wing. It will start off with the same general niche as the F-16 and Mirage 2000 and likely take on the f/b role.

The Supermarine advanced fighter will look like a cross between a MiG-25, an F-15 and a Mirage 4000. A big, powerful fighter designed for combat over France, Germany and Scandinavia from British bases.

The Vengeance/Vindicator replacement will look something like some of the EE P.42 designs with less blocky intakes.


RAF Transport Command Situation

Tactical Airlift
The RAF has gone all out for the Hawker-Siddeley HS.681 in this role, fielding a nominal 480 planes (18 squadrons plus spares). It replaced the Bristol Britannia (over 400 planes at peak strength), Armstrong Whitworth Argosy (144) and Blackburn Beverley (136); not all of these were in service at the same time. It is a slightly larger aircraft than the @ one, with a similar weight, payload, size and range to the A400M.

Strategic Airlift
The mainstay of the 1960s strategic airlift trooping fleet was the Vickers Voyager VC7 (324), which is being replaced by the VC10; it is also planned that the newer larger aeroplane will replace the reserve squadrons of de Havilland Super Comets and Avro Atlantics. The VC10 is a widebody aircraft with four conventionally podded under-wing engines.

Strategic airfreight/cargo lifting is the role of the 236 Shorts Belfasts, which are jet powered here (along the lines of the postulated C-141 wing-Belfast combination). It is heavily worked, but is highly regarded.

Heavy Strategic Airlift
The six-engine Armstrong Whitworth Atlas is in service with five squadrons (120 aircraft), replacing the older Avro Ashtons and Bristol Brabazons in the very long range superheavy transport role. It can carry heavy equipment or hundreds of troops over an intercontinental distance.

Supersonic Transport
The RAF has not selected a single supersonic airliner for fast transport, but rather procured small numbers of the various British types and made use of Imperial Airways’ (@ BOAC) fleet.

The major immediate new aircraft under development as of 1969 is twin jet evolved version of the Handley Page Herald for a role similar in some respects to the C-125.

Some consideration is being given to acquisition of a twin or tri engined transport for short range trooping, with the de Havilland Trident, Bristol Bermuda (Type 200) and the Hawker-Siddeley One-Eleven being the major contenders.
Last edited by Simon Darkshade on Wed Nov 23, 2022 1:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Simon Darkshade
Posts: 1423
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:55 am

Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion

Post by Simon Darkshade »

Righto, I know that seems like a big dump of information, but I've tried to squeeze in:


- Month by Month notes on TL entries
- Economic Data
- American and British Military Information and Forecasts
- Cultural Notes
- A Bit on the History of the National Debt
- Major Industrial Areas of the World
- General Ruminations

Never fear if it seems a lot. Once the old stuff is up, I'm going to rejig this and create a nice post with some links and internal links as well.
Simon Darkshade
Posts: 1423
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:55 am

Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion

Post by Simon Darkshade »

Various Errata

1969 List of British Regions by GRP Percentage

London 16%
Home Counties 12%
West Midlands 10%
Yorkshire 10%
Lancashire 10%
Scotland 8%
East Midlands 8%
Ireland 5%
Northern England 5%
Wales 5%
West Country 4%
East of England 4%
Lyonesse 2.5%
Other 0.5%

- The medium term trend is for growth in Scotland and the North, displacing some degree of London, the South East and the Midlands
- However, the real centre of British economic growth and power remains in the Midlands (18%)
- Yorkshire and Lancashire, rather than falling back, are holding their own, driven by their cities (Sheffield, Leeds, Bradford and Middlesbrough; Liverpool, Manchester, Blackpool and Chester)
- The other four Home Nations add up to a fifth of the economic weight of England, expected to rise to a quarter

Most Powerful Indian Princely Rulers
Nawab of Bengal
Maharajah of Punjab
Maharajah of Bombay
Nizam of Hyderabad
Maharajah of Gujarat
Maharajah of Mysore
Nawab of Sind
Maharajah of Kashmir
Maharajah of Rajasthan
Maharajah of Gwalior
Nawab of Baluchistan
Maharajah of Jodphur
Maharajah of Jaipur
Maharajah of Nepal
Nawab of Bikaner
Druk Gyalpo of Bhutan
Chogyal of Sikkim

1970 Top 50 Economies

1.) USA $10.075 trillion
2.) USSR $4.556 trillion
3.) Germany $3.899 trillion
4.) Britain $3.761 trillion
5.) Japan $3.227 trillion
6.) France $2.09 trillion
7.) India $1.984 trillion
8.) China $1.946 trillion
9.) Canada $1.815 trillion
10.) Italy $1.38 trillion
11.) Austria-Hungary $1.113 trillion
12.) Brazil: $1.091 trillion
13.) Benelux: $1.054 trillion
14.) Spain: $903 billion
15.) Australia $845 billion
16.) Mexico: $836 billion
17.) Argentina: $824 billion
18.) Sweden: $659 billion
19.) South Africa: $646 billion
20.) Turkey: $615 billion
21.) Poland: $598 billion
22.) Indonesia: $586 billion
23.) Persia: $552 billion
24.) Greece: $487 billion
25.) Korea: $456 billion
26.) Switzerland: $425 billion
27.) Venezuela: $407 billion
28.) New Avalon: $402 billion
29.) Yugoslavia: $384 billion
30.) Philippines: $359 billion
31.) Colombia: $336 billion
32.) Chile: $325 billion
33.) Thailand: $320 billion
34.) Peru: $306 billion
35.) GDR: $293 billion
36.) Nigeria: $284 billion
37.) Denmark: $273 billion
38.) Romania: $260 billion
39.) Arabia: $254 billion
40.) Taiwan: $247 billion
41.) Iraq: $239 billion
42.) West Indies: $225 billion
43.) Egypt: $215 billion
44.) Rhodesia: $208 billion
45.) Norway: $192 billion
46.) New Zealand: $187 billion
47.) Israel: $179 billion
48.) Finland: $170 billion
49.) Syria: $161 billion
50.) Newfoundland: $156 billion


The largest performers above historical are Greece, Iraq, South Africa, Canada, Chile and Sweden, with Peru, Turkey, Australia and Germany not far behind.

Trends:
- Japan is going to overtake Britain and have a 1979s just as impressive as the 60s
- Germany won’t slow as much due to economies of scale and will continue to be Europe’s strongest performer
- France will continue to catch up with Britain. Some more peaceful years post Vietnam will help a great deal. I might need to alter their numbers to account for Algeria as well
- China is likely to overtake India because of weight of population, but the latter has a better long term outlook. China is not cut off from the world, but it also means that the huge growth of the Deng period and beyond doesn’t have a starting basis
- America is so large at this point that a very good year will give them huge momentum. They are starting to accelerate ahead from the pack
- The USSR isn’t slowing down anytime soon
- In the Teens, Mexico is very nicely placed, but keep an eye on Argentina for some interesting growth
- In the Twenties, Persia and Korea are the ones to watch
- In the Thirties, Romania is actually the best placed for advancement
- In the Forties, Egypt has the most potential for a rise
- Looking at the Arab Union numbers, if they were a true United state, they would be breathing down Argentina’s neck
- South America has some very strong performers


1969/70 Assorted British Statistical Data

Car Ownership: 62% of adult population
Percentage of Secondary School Students going on to University: 16%
Guns Per Capita: 56 per 100 people
Most Common Hair Colours: Blond 48%, Brown 29%, Red 12%, Black 11%
Most Common Eye Colours: Blue 56%, Green 23%, Brown 18%, Purple 2%, Gold/Amber 1%
Average female Dress Size: 10
Average Male Height/Weight: 6’1” and 187lb
Average Female Height/Weight: 5’6” and 132lb
96% live within 15 miles of a railway station
Percentage of Home Owners: 72%
Percentage of Share/Stock Owners: 29%
Average Yearly Consumption: 101lb of beef, 67lb of pork/bacon, 64lb of fish, 60lb of mutton, 56lb of poultry, 200lb of bread, 70lb of cheese, 250 pints of milk, 275lb of potatoes, 320lb of vegetables, 360lb of fruit, 3lb of tea, 72lb of sugar and 326 eggs
Obesity Levels: 1.8% of males, 2.4% of females
Pet Ownership: 42% of households own a dog and 40% own a cat

Electricity Production: Nuclear 30%, Coal 29%, Oil and Gas 25%, Hydroelectricity 14%, Solar 1%, Other 1%

British Airliners

Short Range
HP.137 Skycoach (32 passengers to 1250 miles @ 360mph)
Bristol Type 200 (100 passengers to 1500 miles @ 640mph)
Vickers VC11 (120 passengers to 2000 miles @ 625mph) 737 twin jet type
Hawker-Siddeley Trident (160 passengers to 2500 miles @ 650mph) 727 tri jet type
Hawker-Siddeley One-Eleven (80-90 passengers to 1800 miles @ 700mph)
Armstrong-Whitworth AW.684 Arcadia (24 passengers to 500 miles @ 375mph)

Medium Range
- Transatlantic
- Medium Range Empire (Africa, India, Middle East, Asia)
- European Routes

VC7 (200 passengers to 5000 miles @ 625mph) 707
DH Super Comet (160 passengers to 3750 miles @ 625mph)
Bristol Type 250 (120 passengers to 4000 miles @ 1500mph)
AW.750 Airbus (250 passengers to 5600 miles @ 675mph)
Avro Atlantic (100 passengers to 5000 miles @ 825mph)
Bristol Type 201 (80 passengers to 2000 @ 1000mph) Sud Super Caravelle type

- Airbus replaced VC7 on Transatlantic hop
- Type 250 replaces Comet on fast MRE

Long Range
Vickers VC10 (480 passengers to 9600 miles @ 720mph)
HS Concord (240 passengers to 6400 miles @ 2300mph)
DH.150 (240 passengers to 7500 miles @ 1950mph)

- VC10 for cargo and passengers
- Concord and Jetstream for speed
Last edited by Simon Darkshade on Wed Nov 23, 2022 4:24 am, edited 3 times in total.
Simon Darkshade
Posts: 1423
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:55 am

Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion

Post by Simon Darkshade »

Where Are They Now? (1970)

Robert F Kennedy
After serving as his brother’s Attorney-General and right hand man during his first two terms in office, Kennedy was elected junior Senator for New York in 1968. It appears he is gearing up for a future Presidential run, but 1972 might be too soon for another Kennedy.

Martin Luther King
Noted campaigner against poverty and injustice, King is the highest profile Negro Cabinet member to date. Reverend King is an impressive and powerful orator much admired on both sides of politics.

James Hendrix
Medically discharged from the U.S. Army after being injured in Vietnam in 1965, Hendrix has worked as a music teacher and itinerant blues player before taking up with Reverend Elvis Presley after attending his church. He is now a member of his famous posse, fighting crime and protecting the innocent with the aid of his enchanted guitar.

Hugh Hefner
After a failed attempt at starting his own gentleman’s magazine that culminated in a trial for obscenity in the early 1950s, Hefner shifted his business career into the importation of carpets before establishing one of North America’s largest tobacco pipe companies.

Alexander Dubcek
A noted Social Democratic politician from Bohemia, Dubcek is regarded as a solid performer in the Imperial Parliament and is occasionally spoken of as a future Chancellor.

Saloth Sâr
Killed by a stray Japanese rocket in the Liberation of Phnom Penh during the 1943 Battle of Cambodia.

Robert McNamara
Former Secretary of the Treasury and now President of the World Bank, McNamara built up a solid reputation through his service in Kennedy’s first two terms and has been credited by some for his part in the economic growth of the 1960s. He remains a close friend of the President who consults him on a range of matters.

Duncan Edwards
Captain of the England football teams and Manchester United, Edwards remains the sporting idol of many a young English boy. Whilst he has lost some of his youthful dash, his skills have not deserted him and he remains a potent weapon in the defence of the World Cup in Germany next year.

Charles Manson
Serving a 15 to 20 year federal sentence for violation of the Mann Act in Alcatraz. He is eligible for release in December 1974.

Marilyn Monroe
The one time bombshell starlet has forged herself a considerable reputation as a thoughtful leading actress in the 1960s, with her choice of roles enabling her to hold her own against younger competition. Many consider her performance as Boudicea in the eponymous picture of 1968 to have been unlucky not to win an Oscar. She is noted for her many trips to entertain troops in South Vietnam.

Michael Jagger
Noted journalist for The Evening Standard, Jagger is known for his nose for a story, having cut his teeth in the finance pages before breaking into general journalism. He spent his National Service in the Royal Fusiliers, serving in Germany and the Congo, where he sustained several shrapnel injuries leading to his characteristic limp.

Bruce Wayne
Wayne is reportedly among the five richest men in the United States according to some, making his decision to accept President Kennedy’s offer to serve as Secretary of Defense an intriguing one. He divides his time between his duties in Washington and his beloved estate outside of Gotham City, NJ.

Pablo Picasso
Burnt at the stake by the Spanish Inquisition for heresy in 1903.

Kermit the Frog
Talented entertainer, bon vivant, author and staple of nightly talk shows, Kermit is recognised as the most well known frog in America. He has attracted plaudits for his initial work on a new educational children’s television programme and recently purchased a dilapidated vaudeville theatre in New York City with a view towards restoring it to its old glory.

Bill Gillespie
Chief of Police of Sparta, Mississippi, Gillespie runs a tight ship over the quiet town and likes it that way. He maintains a correspondence with Philadelphia homicide detective Virgil Tibbs after a curious happenstance brought them together.

John Cleese
Tall and striking, District Commissioner Cleese is considered a rising star in the Colonial Office, excelling in his current position in Sierra Leone and previous placements in Kenya and the Maldives. During his National Service, he was deployed to Alaska, Tahiti and the North West Frontier, seeing action in the latter.

Leslie Hornby/Twiggy
A young seamstress living in Neasden, recently becoming engaged to one of the foresters of Highgate Wood.

Marie Lawrie/Lulu
After a brief singing career in her youth sparked by a novelty hit with The Sheik of Araby, timed for the first British visit of the new Sultan, the Glaswegian lass has settled down and is married to former shipbuilder and now paratrooper William Connolly MM.

Mrs Barbara Plunkett Greene/Mary Quant
One of London’s most successful milliners and purveyors of lady’s fashion, she has established a strong niche providing hats to the Royal Court and the serried ranks of high society.

Jane Fonda
The daughter of noted Hollywood stalwart Henry Fonda has enjoyed increasingly complex roles since her 1960 film debut, but has yet to fully break out of her perceived niche.

Timothy Leary
A pioneer in the intersection of psychology, alchemy and magic, Dr. Leary is attached to the U.S. DoD’s top secret interdimensional research group, the deceptively blandly named Leading Studies Department. He has been instrumental in the experimental psychonautic exploration of outer planes.

William F Buckley
Buckley is regarded by many as one of the doyens of the American conservative movement and a leading public intellectual. He has provided a potent voice for conservatism and anti-Communism over the last decade and a half through books, magazines, radio and television.

Eric Clapton
Wounded in a training accident on Salisbury Plain in 1965 by a premature grenade burst, he was one of the first cripples to receive a mechanical hand to replace his own, although it is somewhat slower than a natural one.

Padre Pio
Famed Italian friar and stigmatist, he is well known for more than his holy wounds, having been involved in a number of verified healings and other miraculous circumstances.

Yoko Ono
A Japanese poet, modernist artist and novelist whose repute has spread beyond Japan to certain artistic communities in the Western World; she is also known for her fine voice as heard on various lieder records.

David Jones
An apprentice wizard from London studying at the Royal College of Magic.

Golda Myerson
The first female Prime Minister of a Commonwealth Realm, she has held office since March 1969.

Gene Hunt
The best thief-taker and best shot in the Manchester and Salford Police, DCI Hunt has risen through the ranks from his days as a uniformed constable. He is a tough, loyal and talented detective in the view of his men and is much feared by the street criminals of the city; his relations with the Manchester Thieves Guild are more complex.

Enrico Fermi
Fermi continues to be hailed as one of the world’s greatest and most productive physicists. An excellent teacher, he has supervised and mentored dozens of brilliant students over the 1950s and 1960s and has been a leading commentator on the role of atomic power in modern society.

Georgy Zhukov
The Soviet Union’s greatest commander of the Second World War has become the greatest influence on the development of Soviet defence policy and the Red Army in the postwar decades. Apart from a few brief years out of favour during the declining years of the elder Stalin’s rule, Zhukov has held the role of Defence Minister and is recognised as one of the most powerful members of the Politburo. He has championed a number of weapon systems and military reforms which are in the process of changing Soviet military capabilities. Uniquely among the Soviet leadership, he is regarded as relatively ebulient and approachable by his Western counterparts of the last war and he remains on good terms with several.

Marshal Ky
Nguyen Ky, former commander of the Service Aeronautique Royale Vietnamienne has served as Prime Minister since 1966. He has deftly handled the internal power plays and infighting whilst trying to preserve some vestige of sovereignty in the face of effective American control of South Vietnam’s war economy and defences. A flamboyant and controversial figure to many, he is tolerated as an effective wartime premier for now.

Jacques Clouseau
Surete Chief Inspector Clouseau is widely considered as France’s finest detective, having established a lengthy record of success since the Second World War. After his early meteoric rise to fame for capturing the Viet Minh commander Giap in 1947 after falling out of a coconut tree into his disguised jeep, he has mainly concentrated on criminal cases, including the notorious affair of the Pink Panther. Some scurrilous foreign commentators have ascribed his success to bumbling luck, but the larger body of patriotic French thought is that his eccentricities are merely a touch of Gallic flourish, similar to the renowned scientific adventurer Professor Jacques de Quack.

C S Lewis
Lewis remains one of the most highly esteemed and widely read British authors in the genres of fantasy, science fiction and historical fiction. He is also well known for his religious philosophical works and his series of Christian apologias and is a frequent commentator on a range of topics on the BBC.

Margaret Thatcher
Shadow Secretary of State for Education, Science and Technology, Mrs. Thatcher has been a relatively strong performer in Opposition over the last five years. The Shadow Cabinet is perhaps the strongest this century and she has been partly eclipsed by other, better known colleagues. It is thought that she may well earn promotion to one of the more senior portfolios in time, but that will require an opening.

James Hacker
A capable young Liberal MP highly regarded by his own party who previously served as a crusading editor of Reform. He is said to be in line for promotion to the Liberal Shadow Minister of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries, a prestigious junior role.

Yukio Mishima
The former actor and author has had a swift rise to success and office since being persuaded to enter politics, currently serving as Governor of Tokyo. He is known to hold exceptionally strident views on Japanese postwar society and culture and has made a number of controversial speeches on the matter.

Yuri Andropov
Chairman of the KGB and one of the most powerful men in the USSR, the shadowy Andropov leads the largest secret police force and intelligence service in the world with an iron fist in an iron glove. On the few occasions he has been seen in public over the last five years, he has appeared remarkably fit, refreshed and almost younger.

Moshe Dayan
Field Marshal Sir Moshe Dayan, Chief of Staff of Israeli Defence Force, stands on the cusp of retirement as a well respected commander who has never quite been presented with the opportunity for a fitting war to prove his mettle. He won great fame as a young commander in the Second World War and lead the Israeli Brigade in the latter half of the Korean War, but his great moment came in 1956, where as Chief of the General Staff, he successfully directed the impressive Israeli advance into Egypt. No fourth war has come and now Dayan is thought to be contemplating a political career.

Karol Wojtyla
Cardinal Wojtyla, Archbishop of Krakow, is one of the higher ranked and most able princes of the Church and has been spoken of as having potential for even greater office.

Wilfred Owen
One of the great poets of the Great War, Owen is now among the grand old men of English letters. He declined the role of Poet Laureate due to his advancing years and preference for his beloved country home and the company of his dear wife.

Walt Disney
Film maker, animator, producer and businessman, Disney’s name is near synonymous with American success and culture around the world. His works have been beloved by generations of children and his plans to build new versions of his fabled Disneyland around the world have caused much anticipation.

Pele
The greatest football player in the world. Already Brazil’s leading goalscorer, he will captain them in Germany 1970. He is reportedly the highest paid sportsman in the world, a status richly earned.

Rudolf Nureyev
The defection of the Soviet ballet dancer in 1961 caused great international shock, but since then, his performances at the Royal Ballet have been exquisite.

1965: JFK, Vasily Stalin, Stanley Barton, Alexei Sergeyev, Charles de Gaulle, Winston Churchill, Charles Henry Stuart, Leonid Brezhnev, Harold Wilson, Roy Jenkins, Nelson Mandela (+), Salvador Allende, Leon Trotsky, Lester Pearson, Lassie, Ronald Reagan, MLK, Paul McCartney, Elvis, Willie Brandt, Rachel Carson, Sukarno, Bruce Lee, Dag Hammarskjold, Monty, TE Lawrence, George Orwell and JM Keynes.

1960: Roger Thompson, JFK, Stalin Jr, Che, Nixon, De Gaulle, Churchill, Horatio Hornblower, Bob Dylan, LBJ, Billy Graham, Cassius Clay, Malcolm Little/X, Brezhnev, Pierre Trudeau (+), Duncan Edwards, Stan Lee, Ernest Hemingway, Neil Armstrong, Ronald Reagan, Frank Whittle, Enoch Powell and Charlie Chaplin

1955: Churchill, Eden, Thompson, Von Richthofen, Van Helsing, Tito, Haile Selassie, Sir Mohandas Gandhi, John Lennon, Reagan, Atticus Finch, Blofeld, Bond, Flashman, Stanley Barton, Roy Hobbs, Emmet Brown, James Dean, MLK, Dick Tracy, John Wayne, Curtis LeMay, Matt Braddock, Willy Wonka, Che, Quatermass, Frankenstein, Fu Manchu, George Bailey, Harry Callahan, Stalin, Khrushchev (+), Eisenhower, Taft, Mao (+), Nixon, Patton, MacArthur, Heydrich, Mussolini, Rommel, Otto von Habsburg, De Gaulle, William Richardson, Nasser (+), Franco (+), Elvis, Sherlock Holmes, Tolkien, Jack Aubrey, Richard Sharpe, Clark Kent, Bruce Wayne, Charles Ratcliffe, TR, Dracula, Nikola Tesla, Cecil Rhodes and Orwell
Simon Darkshade
Posts: 1423
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:55 am

Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion

Post by Simon Darkshade »

French Defence Developments

What US weapons systems France is after
Air Force: Possibly some FB-111s and further KC-135s. Radar systems. Missile cooperation.
Army: Replacements for MIM-23 HAWKs, as many spare UH-1s and Chinooks as possible and surplus vehicles. Radars
Navy: Various missiles

France has a general desire to build as much of its own stuff as possible, but has the hard limits of capacity and funds. Therefore, getting some degree of subsidy for weapons is a goal.

Their big projects are:
Pluton SRBM (250km)
Hades MRBM (1000km)
CVN programme
BBGN programme
SSBNs
SSNs
New LR Area Defence SAM

- Carrier Fighter/Heavy Long Range Air Superiority Fighter: 600 planes. To be based on a twin engine Mirage F2/Mirage 8 hybrid, with the ground based version to be fixed wing and the CV fighter to be VG

- Successor to the Mirage II/III: 1200 aircraft
Dassault Mirage F2 Multirole Fighter/Interceptor

- Multirole Fighter-Bomber: 800 aircraft
Dassault Mirage F1 (replacing ~600 Super Mysteres)

- Nord Renault Orage attack strike fighter/AFVG/Mirage G8 (replacing ~250 Sud-Dewoitine Grognards)

- Lightweight Strike Fighter/Super Alpha Jet (replacing ~ 400 Sud-Dewoitine Baroudeur)

- Breguet-Citroën Jaguar attack bombers (replacing the Super Vatour)

- Morane-Saulnier Super Etendard carrier fighter bombers (~250 planes)

Prospective 1970s CVW:
24 Mirage “F3” fighters
24 Breguet-Citroën Jaguar attack aircraft
24 Morane-Saulnier Super Etendard f/b
24 Nord-Renault Durandal strike bombers



- France will have some surplus Phantoms that will likely go to their Air Force from the Marine Royale in the interceptor role replacing the Griffon
- They are looking to keep their bomber force going, which is seen of great value for intervention around the world
- The Potez 75 COIN and Arsenal VG 125 would likely on their way out to be replaced with the LWSF, but they are cheap and good for rough African operations
- The LWSF will end up looking like the Breguet Br.121 moreso than the @ Alpha Jet, but be called the Morane-Saulnier Faucon
- Development of a CAS aircraft similar to the Lion, A-10 and Soviet Su-25 will result in the Sud-Dewoitine Renard
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