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Twilight of the Sea Gods?

Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 1:05 pm
by OSCSSW
I have an apology for all the Brown shoe types here for being a wise ASS. I now KNOW what you birdmen have been going through since the UAVs and Now UCAVs ,with their non Aviator safe and sound remote "Pilots" :x , came of age.
Only God Knows just how much I HATE the 21st century with it's egg head scientists tamperiong with everything holy (like sailors and flavored beers) and it's insufferable engineers doing bad things just because they can and most of we morons can't :( !!! :x :x :x


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The AUTONOMAST™ is an all-in-one modular system designed to convert a manned vessel into an unmanned surface vessel (USV) for autonomous missions. It integrates various mission controls and payloads for a wide range of applications to support defence and public safety and security operations, allowing vessels to manoeuvre autonomously, intelligently and safely at seas. The AUTONOMAST™ can be tailored for different vessel types and sizes.

Features:

Safe autonomous navigation with multiple perception sensors, including data-fused medium-range radar and 360 degree panoramic vision for all-round situational awareness.
Prevents collision by avoiding surface obstacles with the Collision Detection Collision Avoidance function that abides by the rules of the road at sea (Convention on the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea COLRGEGS). Since 2008, our USVs have been well tested to operate in the congested waters and high traffic density of the Singapore Straits.
End-to-end cybersecurity applications enable the Operator Control Station to communicate with the USV via a secured data link through mesh Wi-Fi, LTE and satellite communications.
The operator can use a Portable Remote Control Unit or activate the autonomous berthing function to slip-off or berth the USV at the pier.


WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE? :(

CNO: Navy to Finalize Large Unmanned Surface Vessel Requirements Later This Year
By: Sam LaGrone April 5, 2023

NATIONAL HARBOR, Md. – The Navy will finish the requirements for its future fleet of Large Unmanned Surface Vessels this year, Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Mike Gilday told USNI News on Tuesday.

“The [capabilities development document] is being developed right now to deliver in 2023. That actually lays out the specific requirements for LUSV,” Gilday said during a press conference at the Navy League’s Sea Air Space symposium.

The CDD lays out the key requirements for the LUSV – thought to be about the size of an offshore support vessel for the oil and gas sector – that will go to industry.

The Navy will buy its first LUSV in 2025, with a total of nine to go under contract by Fiscal Year 2028, according to the service’s five-year shipbuilding outlook issued with the FY 2024 budget proposal. The Navy has set aside $117.4 million in its budget request to continue developing prototypes to help refine the requirements.

Under congressional direction, the Navy must create a land-based test site for the LUSV power plant that will run for 30 days before the service is authorized to contract the first ship.

As part of the CDD process, the Navy will first give industry the specific requirements for the LUSV propulsion system ahead of creating the shore-based power plant, Gilday said.

USVs Ranger and Nomad unmanned vessels underway in the Pacific Ocean near the Channel Islands on July 3, 2021. US Navy Photo

“Instead of standing it up in Philadelphia with an engineering plant … we are having industry, based on our specs, do the testing and we will decide how we’re going to put that engineering plant together and then make the investment in a land-based test site up in Philly. We’ll run that engineering plant just like we’ve done with the DDG, just like we intend to do with frigate,” Gilday said.

As part of the Navy’s emerging Distributed Maritime Operations (DMO) framework, “the LUSV will be capable of weeks-long deployments and trans-oceanic transits and operate aggregated with Carrier Strike Groups (CSGs), Amphibious Ready Groups (ARGs), Surface Action Groups (SAGs), and individual manned combatants,” reads the Navy’s FY 2024 budget documents.

The LUSV will fire its weapons at the direction of a person aboard a guided-missile warship or other assets, according to the service. As a proof of concept, the Navy and the Pentagon’s Strategic Capabilities Office tested the firing of a Standard Missile 6 remotely from a modular launcher aboard USV Ranger in 2021.

“The vessel will be incapable of payload activation, deactivation, or engagement without the deliberate action of a remote, off-hull human operator in the command and control loop,” reads the Navy’s budget documents.
“The program will integrate current Navy combat systems programs of record that have been adapted to enable remote monitoring and operational control from an off-hull command and control point, and will not be equipped with components that would enable payload engagement from onboard the vessel.”

In non-combat scenarios, the LUSV will be minimally manned to assist in extended voyages, monitor the autonomous systems and provide protection to systems aboard.

“We are definitely going to have a requirement for crew support on LUSV, or a smaller crew, to handle those things that are just not quite there with maneuvering critical situations,” Rear Adm. Casey Moton, the program executive officer for unmanned and small combatants said at Sea Air Space.
“We are trying to push the boundaries like we are pushing industry … we don’t want there to be this crutch that we’re just going to fall back on the crew, right, but at the end of the day, we’re fairly close on the autonomy.”

The Navy’s hybrid future fleet will be split between crewed and uncrewed vessels to provide both the sensors and weapons capacity needed for the extended ranges required to operate under DMO, officials have said.

“By the middle of this century … up to 40 percent of the fleet will be unmanned,” Capt. Scot Searles, program manager for unmanned maritime systems said at Sea Air Space.
“There’s a clear demand signal to develop and field it and it has to be affordable. That’s the thing that we’ve got to key on now, when it’s [in] this nascent stage of development, make it affordable, lethal, scalable, and connected.”

Part of the affordability will come from relying on commercial standards for much of the systems aboard.

Much of that testing will happen on the service’s Ghost Fleet Overlord prototype vessels, like Ranger and its sister ship Nomad. The commercial ships were converted to operate autonomously.

The service took delivery of the third Overlord ship of Mariner last year. The fourth, Vanguard, is still under construction.

In 2020, the Navy awarded $42 million in contracts for LUSV studies to shipbuilders Austal USA, HII, Fincantieri Marinette Marine, Bollinger Shipyards, Lockheed Martin and ship design firm Gibbs & Cox. Each company was awarded about $7 million.

HAVEN'T HIT THE BOTTLE YET? WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW EVEN MORE?


Navy creates Unmanned Surface Vessel Division to expedite integration of unmanned systems
By Diana Stancy Correll in Your Navy
NOT my Navy Stancy, ISA NOT my Navy

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The Pacific Fleet has stood up Unmanned Surface Vessel Division One to expedite the integration of unmanned surface vessels.

The unit will manage unmanned surface vessel experimentation for medium and large unmanned surface vessels like the Sea Hunter and the Sea Hawk, both of which will participate in anti-submarine warfare missions. The Pacific Fleet’s Naval Surface Force held a ceremony May 13 establishing the command at Naval Base San Diego.

“To meet the challenges of the 21st Century, we must continue to innovate the surface force,” Cmdr. Jeremiah Daley, the commanding officer of the unit, said in a Navy news release. “USVDIV One will accelerate the delivery of credible and reliable unmanned systems in conjunction with increasingly capable manned platforms into the fleet.”

Vice Adm. Roy Kitchener, commander of Naval Surface Forces, was also present at the ceremony and described the command as a “catalyst for innovation as we employ unmanned surface capabilities in the Pacific Fleet.”

“The implementation of unmanned systems will increase decision speed and lethality to enhance our warfighting advantage,” Kitchener said.

The creation of the division follows the Navy’s first fleet exercise for unmanned systems on the West Coast, called “Unmanned Integrated Battle Problem 21,” last year. Both the Sea Hunter and the Sea Hawk were involved in the April 2021 exercise, however, the Navy remained tight-lipped about specifics.

Rear Adm. Jim Aiken, who oversaw the exercise, told reporters such details were classified and related to intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance. However, he did share that one scenario in the exercise required drones to extend the sight of a warship to shoot a missile from long range.

More recently, U.S. 5th Fleet hosted International Maritime Exercise 2022 and Cutlass Express 2022 in January and February, combined exercises that included 9,000 personnel, 50 ships and approximately 80 unmanned systems from 60 regional navies. The exercises was designed to advance experimentation with unmanned vehicles and artificial intelligence.

“One of my biggest takeaways: We just need to to repeat that type of approach,” Vice Adm. Scott Conn, deputy chief of naval operations for warfighting requirements and capabilities, said of the exercises during the Sea-Air-Space Exposition in April. “Because it involves our allies, we do not have a monopoly on this technology. We need to be aware of what they have and what they can bring in the campaigning effort.

"The Navy is still nailing down exactly how unmanned vessels will integrate into the fleet. The Navy’s new 30-year shipbuilding plan offers three different scenarios for bolstering the size of the fleet — providing two scenarios for procurement under “a budget with no real growth,” and another alternative with an unconstrained budget.

In the event of no real budget growth, the Navy anticipates having 89 to 149 unmanned platform systems by FY45, according to the report.

Re: Twilight of the Sea Gods?

Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 2:16 pm
by Pdf27
OSCSSW wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 1:05 pmI have an apology for all the Brown shoe types here for being a wise ASS. I now KNOW what you birdmen have been going through since the UAVs and Now UCAVs ,with their non Aviator safe and sound remote "Pilots" :x , came of age.
Only God Knows just how much I HATE the 21st century with it's egg head scientists tamperiong with everything holy (like sailors and flavored beers) and it's insufferable engineers doing bad things just because they can and most of we morons can't :( !!! :x :x :x
I dunno, I can see advantages in sending robots to sail through minefields rather than humans. I'm funny that way though...

Re: Twilight of the Sea Gods?

Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 3:53 pm
by OSCSSW
Pdf27 wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 2:16 pm
OSCSSW wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 1:05 pmI have an apology for all the Brown shoe types here for being a wise ASS. I now KNOW what you birdmen have been going through since the UAVs and Now UCAVs ,with their non Aviator safe and sound remote "Pilots" :x , came of age.
Only God Knows just how much I HATE the 21st century with it's egg head scientists tamperiong with everything holy (like sailors and flavored beers) and it's insufferable engineers doing bad things just because they can and most of we morons can't :( !!! :x :x :x
I dunno, I can see advantages in sending robots to sail through minefields rather than humans. I'm funny that way though...
Pdf27 You do have a good point there. I think of such tethered mine hunting things as nio different from a torpedo or missile. The warship is manned by the sailors and those are just their battery of surveillance and weapons. Fully autonomous warships with zero crew are something else in my old 20th century Neanderthal, single malt marinated mind!

I once did a spell on a MSO great food, marlin spike outstanding seamanship, highly disciplined and very well trained crew. The winch was not much different than that on my dad's boat and I surorised the BMC how much I knew about it.

BUT

after a many sweeping exercises when I had the CICWO mid watch with nothing at all going on I thought about just how dangerous the MSO's job was. I was very happy to get back to the SBU and my gunboats.

Re: Twilight of the Sea Gods?

Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 4:48 pm
by Pdf27
OSCSSW wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 3:53 pmPdf27 You do have a good point there. I think of such tethered mine hunting things as nio different from a torpedo or missile. The warship is manned by the sailors and those are just their battery of surveillance and weapons. Fully autonomous warships with zero crew are something else in my old 20th century Neanderthal, single malt marinated mind!

I once did a spell on a MSO great food, marlin spike outstanding seamanship, highly disciplined and very well trained crew. The winch was not much different than that on my dad's boat and I surorised the BMC how much I knew about it.

BUT

after a many sweeping exercises when I had the CICWO mid watch with nothing at all going on I thought about just how dangerous the MSO's job was. I was very happy to get back to the SBU and my gunboats.
It's worth looking at what they're actually doing. A "medium" unmanned surface vessel (the Sea Hawk and Sea Hunter vessels described in the article) is 140 tonnes displacement, and is unlikely ever to be armed. Basically the USN is looking at them for minesweeping and as persistent and deployable sonobuoys - not exactly a round of ammunition like a missile, but doing the classic robot job of "dull, dirty and dangerous".

Re: Twilight of the Sea Gods?

Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 4:53 pm
by kdahm
Personally, I'm wondering what the mean time for them either running aground or getting into trouble in heavy seas. For a lot of things, there's little substitute for a sailor at the helm.

Re: Twilight of the Sea Gods?

Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 5:04 pm
by Johnnie Lyle
kdahm wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 4:53 pm Personally, I'm wondering what the mean time for them either running aground or getting into trouble in heavy seas. For a lot of things, there's little substitute for a sailor at the helm.
Especially when comms are down or under EMCOM.

There’s lots of roles for robot sailors, and they will be an emotional part of the fleet. If the EOD guys are any indication, sailors will bond with their ’bots, and take many of the same emotional hurts when the bots are damaged or destroyed.

But they’re not panaceas, and they need to be evaluated in true peer competitor wartime conditions - no remote control and no emissions - not comfy peacetime practices or punching down.

Re: Twilight of the Sea Gods?

Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 9:23 pm
by Rocket J Squrriel
kdahm wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 4:53 pm Personally, I'm wondering what the mean time for them either running aground or getting into trouble in heavy seas. For a lot of things, there's little substitute for a sailor at the helm.
Or a sailor in the engine room.

Re: Twilight of the Sea Gods?

Posted: Tue May 16, 2023 2:33 pm
by OSCSSW
Johnnie Lyle wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 5:04 pm
kdahm wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 4:53 pm Personally, I'm wondering what the mean time for them either running aground or getting into trouble in heavy seas. For a lot of things, there's little substitute for a sailor at the helm.
Especially when comms are down or under EMCOM.

There’s lots of roles for robot sailors, and they will be an emotional part of the fleet. If the EOD guys are any indication, sailors will bond with their ’bots, and take many of the same emotional hurts when the bots are damaged or destroyed.

But they’re not panaceas, and they need to be evaluated in true peer competitor wartime conditions - no remote control and no emissions - not comfy peacetime practices or punching down.

well Johnnie I must be a real bastard because I never bond with inanimate objects. Hell, I don't bond much with real people unless they rise to the status of shipmates, trusted friends and family. Their just tools and tools are replaceable often with something better. IMO war is not for those who feel too much or make too many casual friends. The price is just too damn high.

Re: Twilight of the Sea Gods?

Posted: Tue May 16, 2023 3:05 pm
by Johnnie Lyle
OSCSSW wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 2:33 pm
Johnnie Lyle wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 5:04 pm
kdahm wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 4:53 pm Personally, I'm wondering what the mean time for them either running aground or getting into trouble in heavy seas. For a lot of things, there's little substitute for a sailor at the helm.
Especially when comms are down or under EMCOM.

There’s lots of roles for robot sailors, and they will be an emotional part of the fleet. If the EOD guys are any indication, sailors will bond with their ’bots, and take many of the same emotional hurts when the bots are damaged or destroyed.

But they’re not panaceas, and they need to be evaluated in true peer competitor wartime conditions - no remote control and no emissions - not comfy peacetime practices or punching down.

well Johnnie I must be a real bastard because I never bond with inanimate objects. Hell, I don't bond much with real people unless they rise to the status of shipmates, trusted friends and family. Their just tools and tools are replaceable often with something better. IMO war is not for those who feel too much or make too many casual friends. The price is just too damn high.
Sure you did.

Your ships. Ships are the first and greatest example of the phenomenon. They’re not just a place sailors work and sleep. Nor are they merely a mirror to reflect the crew’s vitality. They are more.

Re: Twilight of the Sea Gods?

Posted: Tue May 16, 2023 4:33 pm
by jemhouston
OSCSSW wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 2:33 pm
Johnnie Lyle wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 5:04 pm
kdahm wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 4:53 pm Personally, I'm wondering what the mean time for them either running aground or getting into trouble in heavy seas. For a lot of things, there's little substitute for a sailor at the helm.
Especially when comms are down or under EMCOM.

There’s lots of roles for robot sailors, and they will be an emotional part of the fleet. If the EOD guys are any indication, sailors will bond with their ’bots, and take many of the same emotional hurts when the bots are damaged or destroyed.

But they’re not panaceas, and they need to be evaluated in true peer competitor wartime conditions - no remote control and no emissions - not comfy peacetime practices or punching down.

well Johnnie I must be a real bastard because I never bond with inanimate objects. Hell, I don't bond much with real people unless they rise to the status of shipmates, trusted friends and family. Their just tools and tools are replaceable often with something better. IMO war is not for those who feel too much or make too many casual friends. The price is just too damn high.
Senior Chief as retired IT Tech, I always tried bonding with the printers. If you don't, they'll screw you every time.

I've also heard of EOD Tech taking their bomb disposal robots with them when they have a day off.

Re: Twilight of the Sea Gods?

Posted: Wed May 17, 2023 1:31 am
by Vendetta
Who fixes it when it breaks?

Re: Twilight of the Sea Gods?

Posted: Wed May 17, 2023 1:41 am
by jemhouston
Vendetta wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 1:31 am Who fixes it when it breaks?
Good question.

Sooner or later, the question will be do you trust the AI to make its own lethal force decisions?

We may hope for Bolo, fear Skynet, probably get something in between.

Re: Twilight of the Sea Gods?

Posted: Wed May 17, 2023 6:06 am
by Pdf27
Vendetta wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 1:31 amWho fixes it when it breaks?
If it breaks down at sea, you send a tug - or if in too dangerous a situation you scuttle it. Routine maintenance is done in port, frequently from a depot ship - we're using the RFA Cardigan Bay for this in the Gulf at the moment.

Re: Twilight of the Sea Gods?

Posted: Thu May 18, 2023 9:31 pm
by OSCSSW
jemhouston wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 4:33 pm
OSCSSW wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 2:33 pm
Johnnie Lyle wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 5:04 pm

Especially when comms are down or under EMCOM.

There’s lots of roles for robot sailors, and they will be an emotional part of the fleet. If the EOD guys are any indication, sailors will bond with their ’bots, and take many of the same emotional hurts when the bots are damaged or destroyed.

But they’re not panaceas, and they need to be evaluated in true peer competitor wartime conditions - no remote control and no emissions - not comfy peacetime practices or punching down.

well Johnnie I must be a real bastard because I never bond with inanimate objects. Hell, I don't bond much with real people unless they rise to the status of shipmates, trusted friends and family. Their just tools and tools are replaceable often with something better. IMO war is not for those who feel too much or make too many casual friends. The price is just too damn high.
Senior Chief as retired IT Tech, I always tried bonding with the printers. If you don't, they'll screw you every time.

I've also heard of EOD Tech taking their bomb disposal robots with them when they have a day off.
Yup I'd certainly believe that EOT's. Thwy also like their job. Enough said! :roll: :roll:

Re: Twilight of the Sea Gods?

Posted: Thu May 18, 2023 9:33 pm
by OSCSSW
Johnnie Lyle wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 3:05 pm
OSCSSW wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 2:33 pm
Johnnie Lyle wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 5:04 pm

Especially when comms are down or under EMCOM.

There’s lots of roles for robot sailors, and they will be an emotional part of the fleet. If the EOD guys are any indication, sailors will bond with their ’bots, and take many of the same emotional hurts when the bots are damaged or destroyed.

But they’re not panaceas, and they need to be evaluated in true peer competitor wartime conditions - no remote control and no emissions - not comfy peacetime practices or punching down.

well Johnnie I must be a real bastard because I never bond with inanimate objects. Hell, I don't bond much with real people unless they rise to the status of shipmates, trusted friends and family. Their just tools and tools are replaceable often with something better. IMO war is not for those who feel too much or make too many casual friends. The price is just too damn high.
Sure you did.

Your ships. Ships are the first and greatest example of the phenomenon. They’re not just a place sailors work and sleep. Nor are they merely a mirror to reflect the crew’s vitality. They are more.
Johnnie it is not the hunk of steel you bond with it's your shipmates. The Ship is just the "Vessel" that we ride in.

Re: Twilight of the Sea Gods?

Posted: Thu May 18, 2023 9:36 pm
by Johnnie Lyle
OSCSSW wrote: Thu May 18, 2023 9:31 pm
jemhouston wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 4:33 pm
OSCSSW wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 2:33 pm
well Johnnie I must be a real bastard because I never bond with inanimate objects. Hell, I don't bond much with real people unless they rise to the status of shipmates, trusted friends and family. Their just tools and tools are replaceable often with something better. IMO war is not for those who feel too much or make too many casual friends. The price is just too damn high.[/color]
Senior Chief as retired IT Tech, I always tried bonding with the printers. If you don't, they'll screw you every time.

I've also heard of EOD Tech taking their bomb disposal robots with them when they have a day off.
Yup I'd certainly believe that EOT's. Thwy also like their job. Enough said! :roll: :roll:
I remember an interview with the CEO of one of the EOD bot companies in 2006. They’d have the EOD guys bring their bots to the techs in absolute tears, desperately begging the techs to heal their bots. Many of the bots had safety disarmed dozens or hundreds of bombs before being damaged, and not only did the EOD guys feel they owed the bots their lives, but had emotionally bonded with them.

Re: Twilight of the Sea Gods?

Posted: Thu May 18, 2023 9:38 pm
by Zen9
Rocket J Squrriel wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 9:23 pm
kdahm wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 4:53 pm Personally, I'm wondering what the mean time for them either running aground or getting into trouble in heavy seas. For a lot of things, there's little substitute for a sailor at the helm.
Or a sailor in the engine room.
Amen and pass the spanner!

Re: Twilight of the Sea Gods?

Posted: Thu May 18, 2023 9:47 pm
by OSCSSW
Zen9 wrote: Thu May 18, 2023 9:38 pm
Rocket J Squrriel wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 9:23 pm
kdahm wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 4:53 pm Personally, I'm wondering what the mean time for them either running aground or getting into trouble in heavy seas. For a lot of things, there's little substitute for a sailor at the helm.
Or a sailor in the engine room.
Amen and pass the spanner!

I guess I'm not Jake Holman either
:lol: :lol: :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN1nQpuNj7A


Image

Re: Twilight of the Sea Gods?

Posted: Sat May 27, 2023 7:20 pm
by Bouncy70
jemhouston wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 4:33 pm Senior Chief as retired IT Tech, I always tried bonding with the printers.
As a model builder, I always end up bonding with my subjects.

Superglue is funny that way.

Re: Twilight of the Sea Gods?

Posted: Sat May 27, 2023 7:42 pm
by jemhouston
Bouncy70 wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 7:20 pm
jemhouston wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 4:33 pm Senior Chief as retired IT Tech, I always tried bonding with the printers.
As a model builder, I always end up bonding with my subjects.

Superglue is funny that way.
Same here.