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Iowa class question
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:58 pm
by Micael
So I understand that there’s both a compartment called the Combat Information Center, and one called the Combat Engagement Center. With the CIC being the older of the two, at least that’s from what I got from a video about New Jersey. And the video also mentioned that the CIC was a bit redundant towards the end of the ship’s career, with the CEC around.
But it seems that it was still kept around and in working order? What’s the story here, and how were the two places used in relation to one another? (Andy I’m looking at you if you’re reading this?
)
Re: Iowa class question
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 7:16 am
by Nightwatch2
My take is that CEC is the evolution of CIC
Not both on the same ship
On the Iowa we had a CIC but pretty archaic and limited at the time (1989) with a very basic data link capability and limited surveillance and anti-air capability
In Flag Plot for the 6th Fleet Commander and Staff a basic C2 capability, Tomahawk C2 and data Link receive
Not at all what has been referred to as CEC
CEC includes the capability to remote engage with SAM on data link tracks as well as the sensor fusion of AEGIS and E-2 radars.
So really a generational difference
Re: Iowa class question
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:29 am
by Micael
Nightwatch2 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 7:16 am
My take is that CEC is the evolution of CIC
Not both on the same ship
On the Iowa we had a CIC but pretty archaic and limited at the time (1989) with a very basic data link capability and limited surveillance and anti-air capability
In Flag Plot for the 6th Fleet Commander and Staff a basic C2 capability, Tomahawk C2 and data Link receive
Not at all what has been referred to as CEC
CEC includes the capability to remote engage with SAM on data link tracks as well as the sensor fusion of AEGIS and E-2 radars.
So really a generational difference
That’s interesting, so on the Iowa there were just one ”command” space? Because from what I understand from the USS New Jersey museum youtube there’s two separate compartments on that ship. One CIC (oldest) and one CEC (which I suspect equivals the CIC you describe on the Iowa.) The CEC is where they installed the 80’s equipment such as Tomahawk and Harpoon launch stations. The CIC seems to basically just have radar consoles.
They show and talk about the CIC here:
https://youtu.be/07bmfWC1pRQ
And here’s a clip shot in the CEC where they talk about nuclear Tomahawks:
https://youtu.be/tB-vT65jAQo
Re: Iowa class question
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 11:11 am
by MikeKozlowski
Micael wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:29 am
Nightwatch2 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 7:16 am
My take is that CEC is the evolution of CIC
Not both on the same ship
On the Iowa we had a CIC but pretty archaic and limited at the time (1989) with a very basic data link capability and limited surveillance and anti-air capability
In Flag Plot for the 6th Fleet Commander and Staff a basic C2 capability, Tomahawk C2 and data Link receive
Not at all what has been referred to as CEC
CEC includes the capability to remote engage with SAM on data link tracks as well as the sensor fusion of AEGIS and E-2 radars.
So really a generational difference
That’s interesting, so on the Iowa there were just one ”command” space?
Because from what I understand from the USS New Jersey museum youtube there’s two separate compartments on that ship. One CIC (oldest) and one CEC (which I suspect equivals the CIC you describe on the Iowa.) The CEC is where they installed the 80’s equipment such as Tomahawk and Harpoon launch stations. The CIC seems to basically just have radar consoles.
They show and talk about the CIC here:
https://youtu.be/07bmfWC1pRQ
And here’s a clip shot in the CEC where they talk about nuclear Tomahawks:
https://youtu.be/tB-vT65jAQo
...Is it possible that's an artifact from
New Jersey's Vietnam reactivation?
Mike
Re: Iowa class question
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:47 pm
by Nightwatch2
Iowa in 1989 had those same systems but that’s NOT what CEC is.
Cooperative Engagement Capability is the fusion of sensors and data links to remote engage targets
The TWCS (Tomahawk) is targeting Tomahawk cruise missiles. We had a TWCS on both Iowa and Belknap
I’ll look at the videos and comment later. Have to run
Edit
They aren’t talking about the CEC of later ships.
Confusion of terms
Re: Iowa class question
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:23 pm
by Micael
Nightwatch2 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:47 pm
Iowa in 1989 had those same systems but that’s NOT what CEC is.
Cooperative Engagement Capability is the fusion of sensors and data links to remote engage targets
The TWCS (Tomahawk) is targeting Tomahawk cruise missiles. We had a TWCS on both Iowa and Belknap
I’ll look at the videos and comment later. Have to run
Edit
They aren’t talking about the CEC of later ships.
Confusion of terms
So I guess their use of the CEC term is a bit of an overstatement then?
Re: Iowa class question
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:35 am
by Nightwatch2
Micael wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:23 pm
Nightwatch2 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:47 pm
Iowa in 1989 had those same systems but that’s NOT what CEC is.
Cooperative Engagement Capability is the fusion of sensors and data links to remote engage targets
The TWCS (Tomahawk) is targeting Tomahawk cruise missiles. We had a TWCS on both Iowa and Belknap
I’ll look at the videos and comment later. Have to run
Edit
They aren’t talking about the CEC of later ships.
Confusion of terms
So I guess their use of the CEC term is a bit of an overstatement then?
Oh yea…..