History, Politics And Current Affairs

Just a link to a site going into this. But I thought it might interest some here.

https://hauntedpalaceblog.com/2019/08/1 ... PcOi2UEk1Q

That's actually pretty interesting, thanks.

Not to be pedantic, but Pre-Christian Britain. . .when was this? Corn is a Central/North American grain and was introduced to Europe in the 1500s. How did the 10th-13th century Anglos, Saxons, Celts, etc make corn dollies when corn was 2 or 3 centuries in their future? Did they make their dollies with some other grain/crop and continue with the corn crops after the Colombian Interchange and the term "corn dollies" just applied to the previous iterations of the dollies?

Inquiring minds want to know. . . .

Wheat, oats etc is called corn in the UK.

FLW wrote: ↑Wed Aug 13, 2025 4:48 am Not to be pedantic, but Pre-Christian Britain. . .when was this? Corn is a Central/North American grain and was introduced to Europe in the 1500s. How did the 10th-13th century Anglos, Saxons, Celts, etc make corn dollies when corn was 2 or 3 centuries in their future? Did they make their dollies with some other grain/crop and continue with the corn crops after the Colombian Interchange and the term "corn dollies" just applied to the previous iterations of the dollies?

Inquiring minds want to know. . . .

The word is already used in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle c900 AD. No doubt earlier, I just can't find the sources this morning.

• Hie wæron be numene ægðer ge þæs ceapes ge þæs cornes.
• On ðisum gere wæs..corn swa dyre swa nan man ær ne gemunde.

Maize was originally know as Indian Corn - "corn" at the time meant any cereal crop - and over time US usage dropped the "Indian" and started assuming that it was the only meaning of corn. In the UK that crop is only called "sweetcorn" or "maize" by the general public - never just "corn".

Edit: thinking about it I'm pretty sure it would be impossible to make corn dollies with maize stalks - they're too thick and inflexible to weave.

Might an explanation be a use/borrowing of the Scandinavian word for modern barley, which is "korn"?

pandion wrote: ↑Wed Aug 13, 2025 10:13 am Might an explanation be a use/borrowing of the Scandinavian word for modern barley, which is "korn"?

If the proto-west-germanic is "korn"......then it's remained a stable word for over 2,000 years.

A brief dip suggests only east-germanic languages pronounced it differently as "kaurn"

Zen9 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 13, 2025 3:09 pm

pandion wrote: ↑Wed Aug 13, 2025 10:13 am Might an explanation be a use/borrowing of the Scandinavian word for modern barley, which is "korn"?

If the proto-west-germanic is "korn"......then it's remained a stable word for over 2,000 years.

A brief dip suggests only east-germanic languages pronounced it differently as "kaurn"

Due to its hardiness barley has a history going back to the later Stone Age in northern Europe. Languagewise many Germanic/Saxon and Scandinavian words were introduced on the British Isles during the first Milennium in several waves of migration or plunder.

warshipadmin wrote: ↑Wed Aug 13, 2025 5:50 am Wheat, oats etc is called corn in the UK.

Ah. Did not know that. Thanks.

pdf27 wrote:The word is already used in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle c900 AD. No doubt earlier, I just can't find the sources this morning.

Hie wæron be numene ægðer ge þæs ceapes ge þæs cornes.
On ðisum gere wæs..corn swa dyre swa nan man ær ne gemunde.

Maize was originally know as Indian Corn - "corn" at the time meant any cereal crop - and over time US usage dropped the "Indian" and started assuming that it was the only meaning of corn. In the UK that crop is only called "sweetcorn" or "maize" by the general public - never just "corn".

Interesting. Thanks for enlightening me.

pandion wrote: ↑Wed Aug 13, 2025 10:13 am Might an explanation be a use/borrowing of the Scandinavian word for modern barley, which is "korn"?

In Swedish, maybe, but in Norwegian and Icelandic, barley is called "bygg", and in Danish "byg" or "almineligt byg", and in all three languages "korn" is the word for cereal grains in general.

pengolod_sc wrote: ↑Wed Aug 13, 2025 8:24 pm

pandion wrote: ↑Wed Aug 13, 2025 10:13 am Might an explanation be a use/borrowing of the Scandinavian word for modern barley, which is "korn"?

In Swedish, maybe, but in Norwegian and Icelandic, barley is called "bygg", and in Danish "byg" or "almineligt byg", and in all three languages "korn" is the word for cereal grains in general.

Wiki tells that the ancient Swedish (800-1526) word for barley was "bjugg" while "korn" was then the generic name for all kinds of grain. This is today called "sädeslag" (or "spannmål"), which in Norwegian translates to "korn". So an adoption of "korn/corn" could well have taken place, although with a more generalized meaning.

Even on Wikipedia we can see the etymology as reconstructed currently.

Proto-germanic *kurną

Proto-indo-european *ǵr̥h₂nóm
From *ǵerh₂- (“grow old, mature”)