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Small mortar rounds as improvised grenades ??

Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2024 6:09 pm
by Nik_SpeakerToCats
Seen it on clips from several WW2 movies.

Grim street-fighting, getting close to bayonets and 'whites of eyes' range...
Targets too close for mortar to range.
Defenders whack mortar round on ground, toss as grenade.
Useful explosion ensues.

Two related queries:
Was this realistic with munitions of that era ?
WTF was going on to arm them such... ??

Re: Small mortar rounds as improvised grenades ??

Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2024 11:59 pm
by kdahm
Yes, you could, according to multiple sites found by googling "WWII mortar rounds used as grenades".

See below the bolded part (my bolding) for how it could be done. It's probably on the same level as lighting a block of C4 to use in cooking your dinner in Vietnam. Something to do when there isn''t any other way, not a routine thing.

Image of M52 fuse http://www.90thidpg.us/Equipment/Weapon ... es/M52.jpg and http://www.90thidpg.us/Equipment/Weapon ... /M52-2.jpg

https://www.sandboxx.us/news/yes-wwii-s ... -grenades/
A few World War II movies feature incredible scenes of troops — usually soldiers or Marines — fighting tooth and nail against an enemy until they’ve expended most of their ammo, all of their grenades, and are stuck in their final defensive position.

That’s when someone does something crazy and starts throwing mortar rounds at the oncoming onslaught. The huge bursts of shrapnel wipe out groups of the enemy forces, breaking up the attack and allowing the heroes to emerge victorious.

Skip ahead to 0:28 in this clip to see this happen:
“Saving Private Ryan” was called out by some for this scene as many thought it impossible, and “Hacksaw Ridge” features a similar scene that caused a few raised eyebrows.

But most mortar rounds in World War II could be thrown this way. It was just incredibly dangerous and rarely done.

While new proximity fuzes — those which detonate a specified distance from the surface — were developed during World War II, most mortar rounds carried impact fuzes that used the physical force of the mortar striking a rock or something to trigger the charge.
Yes, World War II soldiers could throw mortar rounds like grenadesWorld War II mortarmen attack German positions in 1944. (Photo: National Archives and Records Administration)

This caused surface bursts, and most mortarmen wanted their rounds that were detonating against the surface to explode immediately. The further the main charge makes it into the ground before it explodes, the greater amount of the explosion that will be absorbed by the mud and dirt.

So weapon designers made fuzes that were very sensitive. To prevent the fuzes from exploding prematurely, designers incorporated impact fuzes with a two-step arming process. This meant a safety pin had to be removed followed by a sudden force such as the propellant exploding to fire the round from the tube.

For soldiers looking to use these mortar rounds as a grenade, they had to remove the safety pin and slam the tail of the mortar round against something solid to simulate the force of the weapon firing. After that, the round would explode from any sudden force applied to the fuze.
Yes, World War II soldiers could throw mortar rounds like grenadesAn American mortar crew attacks German positions on the Rhine in 1945. (Photo: National Archives and Records Administration)

This method of triggering, combined with the greater explosive force of a mortar, made them way more deadly than grenades.

Most grenades work using a timer, meaning that a soldier throws it and hopes that the enemy can’t grab the weapon and throw it back before it detonates.

But a hand-thrown mortar round will usually explode as soon as it hits the ground or a solid object, making it nearly impossible to throw back.

At least two soldiers used this to their advantage in World War II. Technical Sgt. Beauford T. Anderson threw mortar rounds to drive off a Japanese attack on Okinawa, and Cpl. Charles E. Kelly used mortar ammunition during his final defense of a storehouse being overwhelmed by the Germans in Italy.

This procedure comes with high risks. A round that falls short of the intended throw will almost certainly go off, potentially killing friendly troops and the thrower, and a round that is dropped after arming could go off, killing the operators. Still, for a happy few, the risk was worth the reward.

Thank you.

Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2024 10:17 am
by Nik_SpeakerToCats
Thank you.
My Google-fu being currently impaired, getting this authoritative, 'In Extremis, Yes' was just what I needed.