History, Politics And Current Affairs

So yesterday I was at the range for a bit doing the practical part of a mandatory periodic retest for guard duty, and I realized that I don’t really know anything about what procedures other militaries have prior to firing weapons.

In the Swedish military the person in charge of a range firing (or live fire/blank fire in terrain) will order the individual soldiers to ”conduct preparations for live/blank firing”. The soldiers will then pull through the barrel, cycle the mechanism several times, check that all the bolts are in place, check that the safety moves distinctly between the positions and not too loosely, check that the flash supressor is on tight enough that it can’t be turned by hand, visually inspect the barrel and the insides of the rifle for any foreign objects, turn on the red dot sight and see that it works (if applicable), and check the magazines for function.

Then, everyone will line up and either have the magazines facing upwards in the open pouches or held in the left hand (done a bit differently), hold the rifle with the butt in the right hand and resting it over the right shoulder (with the mechanism pulled back/open). Usually two instructors will then proceed with an inspection. One instructor moves in front of the lined up soldiers, the other behind them. They step in front of you and you state ”[Rank], preparations ahead of live firing complete. [X] magazines.” The instructor in front will then check the magazines, the safety, red dot sight (that it is roughly sighted in), into the insides of the rifle, and check the bolts. The instructor behind will check the flash supressor, and look down the barrel. Once they’re satisfied they’ll indicate that you’ve passed and step to the next one in line. If something is amiss they’ll state what and have you fall out of the line and remedy it ahead of a reinspection. It can be done with one instructor but it takes longer as they have to step behind each soldier then and check those parts as well.

After finishing shooting you pull through the barrel again, check that you don’t have any ammunition left, turn off the red dot sight, and line up for inspection again. This time you state ”[Rank] ready for inspection after live firing. No ammunition left, all equipment retrieved.” Inpection proceeds as per before.

The reasons behind it are safety related, to avoid any dangerous situations due to the weapon not being functional, having foreign objects in it and so on. When you do blank firings there’s extra care taken so that there’s no live rounds hiding in the magazines or pouches.

What kind of procedures do other militaries have? I’m curious if they’re similar or if there’s differences.

When I was in the Marines, we opened the rear retaining pin, pulled out the bolt and held it in the left hand, and had the weapon broken open like a double barrel shotgun over the right shoulder. Instructor verified bore was clear, bolt was properly assembled and lubed, and you reassembled the rifle while he watched.

In the British service, and for the L85 family only.

At the range. The unit is split into Firing & Butts parties.

Butts party get to sit in a concrete slit trench and indicate hits, then paste & repair targets.

Firing party gets to load magazines and shoot.

These parties then swap around as needed so everyone gets to do every job.

The shooting party kicks off with “Down, test & adjust positions”. The lads get down into the prone position, adjust their weapons for comfort and set sights as appropriate to the targets being fired upon.

At this point the weapons are Safe, no rounds gave yet been issued.

The Range or Ammunition Officer/ NCO (dependent on range & party size) then distributed ammunition.

“With a magazine of x rounds, LOAD!” Safety catch is checked as on SAFE, magazine is inserted and checked as secure, change lever is checked as on R for Repetition.

“MAKE READY!” With the left hand, the cocking lever is pushed back.

(Dependent on target type, falling plate/ Fig 11/ 6 x 6’) “Targets will fall when hit! In your own time, CARRY ON!” Soldiers then commence firing until all rounds have been expended or time has expired.

“UNLOAD!” Safety catch is checked as on SAFE. Magazine is removed and placed on sandbag next to firing position, change lever checked as on R, cocking handle pulled back 4-5x and then held back for a five point visual check of breech, ejection port, magazine well, dust cover and breech again.

Magazines are then collected. Firing party stays on the firing point, still in prone position.

“For inspection, PORT ARMS!” Safety catch checked as on SAFE, cocking handle pulled to the rear and the snappily-named Holding Open Device applied. Weapon is then rotated 90 degrees anticlockwise and butt placed on right shoulder, so the ejection port is facing up.

Range Officer or deputy then conducts a safety inspection of each weapon to ensure that they’re all unloaded.

At the end of the day and prior to departure, or prior to handing weapons back into the armoury there is a parade which ends with each soldier giving the statement, “I have no live rounds/ blank rounds in my possession Sir!” Should any then be discovered in uniform or webbing they must immediately be handed in.

Thanks guys, very interesting. When unloading (command, ”patron ur”, literal translation ”round out”) here you check that the safety is on, hold the rifle securely in the safe direction (ie towards the targets on the range), remove the magazine, pull the handle back to the hold open position, move the rifle back and forth (while still pointing the same way) to check for any rounds still in there, then you feel into the rear end of the barrel with a naked finger to make sure that there’s no round there (for the AK-4, with the AK-5 you have a red plastic thing that you insert to check), then you cock the rifle, insert your left thumb in the magazine well if right handed (in case you had a sudden case of stupid and reinserted the magazine at this point, hopefully that’ll make you realize it), and dry fire it in the safe direction.

I have always been told that dry firing a weapon is a Bad Idea and will result in damage to the firing pin mechanism if done repeatedly.

Have I been lied to, or does the Swedish military either replace pins on a regular basis, or is there something else going on that I am not aware of?

Thanks
Belushi TD

Belushi TD wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2024 11:34 am I have always been told that dry firing a weapon is a Bad Idea and will result in damage to the firing pin mechanism if done repeatedly.

Have I been lied to, or does the Swedish military either replace pins on a regular basis, or is there something else going on that I am not aware of?

Thanks
Belushi TD

I don’t know how it is with every weapon out there, but it does not appear to be an issue with the ones we use. With a caveat that the rifles go in for checks by techs regularly so possibly gets replaced then. But regardless it is considered a key aspect of the safety procedures, to ensure that even if you managed to botch things up significantly when clearing the weapon the round fired will be in a safe direction. So I think that we’d be doing that even if it meant that firing pins had to be replaced more often than otherwise.

Belushi TD wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2024 11:34 am I have always been told that dry firing a weapon is a Bad Idea and will result in damage to the firing pin mechanism if done repeatedly.

Have I been lied to, or does the Swedish military either replace pins on a regular basis, or is there something else going on that I am not aware of?

Thanks
Belushi TD

With a few exceptions, dry firing is fine for every centerfire firearm I'm aware of. The exceptions are primarily due to ones with a heavy firing pin or hammer, where dry firing results in excessive force on the surface stopping excessive firing pin protrusion.

For rimfire firearms, with only a few exceptions, dry firing is not done. This is because the firing pin is on the edge of the chamber and may strike the part of the chamber that holds the rim, which would blunt the firing pin or peen the area of the chamber where it hits. Basically, like an interference valve setup on a timing belt engine.

The whole "show the chamber is empty, then close the bolt and dry fire" dance seriously annoys me. Both from the perspective of where does the bullet go if Mr.Brainfart in fact loaded it, and because they're left with a closed bolt firearm. If you want to make a firearm safe, invest in some Open Bolt Indicators, which are just brightly colored rigid plastic flags with a rod that goes through the chamber and shows that there's nothing there. That and empty magwell (yes, flags available for that) means that the thing is visibly safe. Dollar apiece, maybe five for a magwell indicator. Lower in volumes of 10,000, and can have a logo printed on them if ordering by the hundred.

kdahm wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2024 4:36 pm

Belushi TD wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2024 11:34 am I have always been told that dry firing a weapon is a Bad Idea and will result in damage to the firing pin mechanism if done repeatedly.

Have I been lied to, or does the Swedish military either replace pins on a regular basis, or is there something else going on that I am not aware of?

Thanks
Belushi TD

With a few exceptions, dry firing is fine for every centerfire firearm I'm aware of. The exceptions are primarily due to ones with a heavy firing pin or hammer, where dry firing results in excessive force on the surface stopping excessive firing pin protrusion.

For rimfire firearms, with only a few exceptions, dry firing is not done. This is because the firing pin is on the edge of the chamber and may strike the part of the chamber that holds the rim, which would blunt the firing pin or peen the area of the chamber where it hits. Basically, like an interference valve setup on a timing belt engine.

The whole "show the chamber is empty, then close the bolt and dry fire" dance seriously annoys me. Both from the perspective of where does the bullet go if Mr.Brainfart in fact loaded it, and because they're left with a closed bolt firearm. If you want to make a firearm safe, invest in some Open Bolt Indicators, which are just brightly colored rigid plastic flags with a rod that goes through the chamber and shows that there's nothing there. That and empty magwell (yes, flags available for that) means that the thing is visibly safe. Dollar apiece, maybe five for a magwell indicator. Lower in volumes of 10,000, and can have a logo printed on them if ordering by the hundred.

Normally (as in, 100.0% of times I’ve been involved) the dry fire is either done whilst in position on the range, pointing downrange or into the sand trap ND butts next to the armoury; either way it’s safe and free.

Magwell indicators at $1/ ea just mean something else to be eaten/ lost on exercise areas/ burden the poor bloody squaddy with, when instead for the 1 per 100,000 rounds that’s a Negligent Discharge it’s already safely handled using existing infrastructure.

The whole "show the chamber is empty, then close the bolt and dry fire" dance seriously annoys me. Both from the perspective of where does the bullet go if Mr.Brainfart in fact loaded it,

It goes in the designated safe direction, which at a range is against a target.