History, Politics And Current Affairs

...Senior Chief mentioned in another thread that he had scratch built a model of USS John D. Ford DD228 - I turn mentioned that I had this beast slowly taking shape, and he said he'd like to see it. Now, I may be the son of a Marine and a former Wing Wiper, but I know when a Chief makes a request, you do your best.

This is the sixty-two year old Revell 1:240 4 Stack destroyer. It's been released in a couple different boxes - Aaron Ward, Buchanan, and HMS Campbeltown...and you can't actually build any of those ships.

Let me explain.

There were two classes of 'classic' 4 stackers, Wickes and Clemson. The kit as built is actually something of a mix of features from both classes, and even then you can only build a WWI or pre-WWII ship. The Campbeltown is even more problematic, because she was heavily modified by the RN, and then cut down again to semi-resemble a Kriegsmarine DD before she went to glory at St. Nazaire. So, bottom line, you've got to decide how to build her first. More interesting is the fact that if you build a WWII refit ship....no two were exactly alike. On the other hand, give the kit's age, it's damned nice. It has some odd engineering, but on the whole it still stands up well.

In my case, the decision was easy - Barney DD149. The Fair Melissa's granddad served aboard her as a gunner before going on to get his doctorate in physics and becoming the senior weapons safety engineer at Dahlgren Proving Grounds. (Went on to go nose-to-nose with some fella named Rickover, too.)

The good news is that Barney was very well documented photographically, both in quantity and in quality. The next thing is to figure out the conversion. Barney lost her original bridge and got an enclosed one, lost one of her stacks, two of her torpedo mounts, all but a couple of portholes, and got two 20mm tubs forward and an elevated 20mm mount aft in place of the old searchlight tower. The hardest part was building the new bridge, and it took a bit of thinking, but then I realized that if I built the new structure around the bridge deck, it would be fairly easy...and indeed, it was. That was the hardest bit of surgery; the 20mm tubs were fairly easy and I don't foresee any real difficulties with the 20mm tower. The real challenge will be figuring out the rails (GMM makes an amazing set, but at $75, it's a little pricey) and so many small details, but I'm looking forward to it.

Mike

PS - Recently I sat down and figured out that it's possible to build FOURTEEN different variants of a 4 stacker. A pile of these kits could keep you busy for years.

Wow! If I had the space, time, and necessary supplies, this sounds like something I’d think about trying.

Who won?

Please do continue to update us here!

jemhouston wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:52 amWho won?

Jem,

Granddad. He had been asked to be a member of the Thresher Commission after that boat's loss in April of '63, and according to the story I was told Rickover was personally pursuing a dead end in the investigation and wouldn't drop it. Granddad - a polite, respectful North Carolina lad - tried to explain the issues to the admiral, who in turn apparently said something to the effect that he didn't need to be lectured by some enlisted gunner's mate.

That did it. Granddad came around the table and corrected him in no uncertain terms, which ended in Rickover apologizing and dropping the matter.

Mike

Good for him

Thanks Mike, I'd love to see the finished Ship. I'm sure it will be a work of art.

I did not know people customized plastic models but come to think of it why not? Is it difficult to fashion parts from plastic? I'd think, being a wood worker, that wooden customization, if done in say box wood and finely sanded would blend well with the original quality plastic hull. Am I reinventing the wheel?

My WIP for this winter is an old west Wells Fargo Concord Stage Coach. Never built a wagon before; ought to be a real challenge. I did cheated when I bought a set of very good plans that came with a detailed book of instructions. IMO, the wheels are really going to kick my ass. I figure there will be at least three prototypes before I master that art. No Biggie what else do I have to do in winter in New England accept read, drink and smoke too much.

However, I still have the plans for John D Ford. One of the books I reread annually is "The Caine Mutiny" and she was a DMS former 4 piper DD.
Wouke provides a lot of detail about his ship and I can easily work that into my DMS - 18.
Here is the last boat I built

MikeKozlowski wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:34 am
...Senior Chief mentioned in another thread that he had scratch built a model of USS John D. Ford DD228 - I turn mentioned that I had this beast slowly taking shape, and he said he'd like to see it. Now, I may be the son of a Marine and a former Wing Wiper, but I know when a Chief makes a request, you do your best.

This is the sixty-two year old Revell 1:240 4 Stack destroyer. It's been released in a couple different boxes - Aaron Ward, Buchanan, and HMS Campbeltown...and you can't actually build any of those ships.


Mike

PS - Recently I sat down and figured out that it's possible to build FOURTEEN different variants of a 4 stacker. A pile of these kits could keep you busy for years.

MikeKozlowski wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 11:26 am

jemhouston wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:52 amWho won?

Jem,

Granddad. He had been asked to be a member of the Thresher Commission after that boat's loss in April of '63, and according to the story I was told Rickover was personally pursuing a dead end in the investigation and wouldn't drop it. Granddad - a polite, respectful North Carolina lad - tried to explain the issues to the admiral, who in turn apparently said something to the effect that he didn't need to be lectured by some enlisted gunner's mate.

That did it. Granddad came around the table and corrected him in no uncertain terms, which ended in Rickover apologizing and dropping the matter.

Mike

Hymie apologized? Your granddad sounds like the type of swinging Dick cannon cocker I would not like to cross but would love to have with me in rough mean night at a WestPac(say Macao or some other off limits bucket of blood) El Grosso or Biker bar.

Them were the days.

OSCSSW wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 4:25 pm I did not know people customized plastic models but come to think of it why not? Is it difficult to fashion parts from plastic? I'd think, being a wood worker, that wooden customization, if done in say box wood and finely sanded would blend well with the original quality plastic hull. Am I reinventing the wheel?

I'd go so far as to say that it is almost standard practice for anyone who does not build straight out of the box. Styrene plastic sheet - plain, corrugated, or deck-planking-scribed, rods, tubes, bars and sundry other profiles are available in various suitable thicknesses and sizes, so raw materials are not a problem. Working with styrene is quite easy, and this stuff glues to the kit parts with the standard glue used for models, so overall we have it quite easy. It paints well too.

Mixing different materials causes problems with different thermal expansion rates and what glue to use, and in wood you have moisture related resizing issues... even brass handrails can be long enough on a ship model to cause thermal expansion trouble.

OSCSSW wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 4:34 pm

MikeKozlowski wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 11:26 am

jemhouston wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:52 amWho won?

Jem,

Granddad. He had been asked to be a member of the Thresher Commission after that boat's loss in April of '63, and according to the story I was told Rickover was personally pursuing a dead end in the investigation and wouldn't drop it. Granddad - a polite, respectful North Carolina lad - tried to explain the issues to the admiral, who in turn apparently said something to the effect that he didn't need to be lectured by some enlisted gunner's mate.

That did it. Granddad came around the table and corrected him in no uncertain terms, which ended in Rickover apologizing and dropping the matter.

Mike

Hymie apologized? Your granddad sounds like the type of swinging Dick cannon cocker I would not like to cross but would love to have with me in rough mean night at a WestPac(say Macao or some other off limits bucket of blood) El Grosso or Biker bar.

Them were the days.

Senior Chief,

Thanks for your comments on the Barney - I've been away from it for a while, but I think I need to start taking another few whacks at it. BTW, this is what it should look like when finished:
Modifying kits is a lot of fun once you get the hang of it - so much so that IPMS rules for straight out of the box entries require you to provide the instructions to show that's what you did. I decided to scratchbuild two cockpits in a 1/72 F-82G just to see if I could do it, and I was very pleasantly surprised at the results. (And Bob Dedmon is to the point where he can scratchbuild major structural components on things.)

Plastic ships, especially when you get to the 1/350 and larger are like blank canvases, even if they're already well detailed kits. And surprisingly, the old Revell and Renwal 'box-scale' kits can be turned into showpieces with modern materials and techniques. Take a look at the Monogram Chicago CG11 - that's pretty nice out of the box and when you add modern PE and 3D print/resin detail parts, it's gorgeous. I know a gentleman superdetailing a Renwal Ticonderoga CV14, and that beast will be museum quality when it's done. My 1/350 Ranger CV-4 will be my retirement project, and I'm going to detail the hell out of it.

And according to the story, Admiral Rickover did in fact apologize, or at least as close as he ever came to it in public. He definitely picked the wrong enlisted gunner's mate to piss off; I wasn't able to listen to his stories as much as I would have liked before he passed, but I know he was out in the Atlantic on a 30 year old DD waiting for the whine of a torpedo or the snarl of aircraft engines, and he was proud of it. Rickover had behind-the-lines jobs in the Pacific - important ones that made a difference, but he had a lousy attitude towards people who he thought he was smarter than, and that often included enlisted.

I'm pretty sure though you and Granddad would have gotten along just fine.

Mike

MikeKozlowski wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 1:38 am
I'm pretty sure though you and Granddad would have gotten along just fine.

Mike

Thanks Mike, that is what I consider a real compliment but I doubt, even in my wildman youth, I could have kept up with your Granddad.

My latest project is to back date U.S.S. Arizona 1941 fit to the 1939-40 fit. this includes mainly removing all the gun shields and redoing a couple platforms and relocating 50 caliber MG in 1/700 scale. And of course using different paint...pre-war Navy gray standard 5.