History, Politics And Current Affairs

Micael wrote: ↑Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:25 pm Some of you may be aware that the death of Swedish King Charles XII during the campaign in Norway in 1718 have been shrouded in a bit of a mystery. Namely regarding whether he was shot by the enemy (Norway), or was killed by one of his own soldiers who was sick and tired of the war. There has been a long standing rumor that a soldier loaded a rifle with a button from Charles’ own uniform and used it to kill him with.

However, Finnish scientists have now conducted a thorough forensic investigation including comparing the actual data from Charles’ skull and hat (where the impact occurred), and compared it to test firings with ballistic gel and all that. The conclusion is that it wasn’t a musket ball nor a button that hit him. Instead it was most likely canister shot from a cannon that killed him, thus coming from a Norwegian cannon. And so it appears that we can finally put this rumor to rest.

MFOM wrote: ↑Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:28 pm Was Sweden relieved to see the back of him? He seemed like an exhausting monarch

Jotun wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:36 pm I have seen pictures of his (desiccated) corpse with that humongous tunnel through its noggin. No button could do that, never mind its awful aerodynamics.
The canister shot explanation always seemed to be the most suited to the Occam‘s Razor principle, at least to me.

Belushi TD wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:09 pm .I've no experience with autopsies, gunshot wounds or the like, but it appears to me that the ball must have been going JUST fast enough to enter, but NOT QUITE fast enough to leave. Not to be morbid or disrespectful, but otherwise, wouldn't hydrostatic shock caused his head to have exploded?

Belushi TD

pandion wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:47 pm This subject was thoroughly investigated by ballistics and forensic experts in Sweden a decade ago, including trial firings at various speeds etc at fake heads (of plastics). The conclusion reached was the same as the one described: An iron ball from a canister round fired from the Overberg fortification could have penetrated the King´s felt hat and then had the correct reduced speed of some 120 m/s to create the actual holes in the King´s cranium with the entry hole being much larger than the exit hole. This was in fact an ongoing bombardment that caused casualties both before and after the fatal hit on the King.

Johnnie Lyle wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 6:10 pm

pandion wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:47 pm This subject was thoroughly investigated by ballistics and forensic experts in Sweden a decade ago, including trial firings at various speeds etc at fake heads (of plastics). The conclusion reached was the same as the one described: An iron ball from a canister round fired from the Overberg fortification could have penetrated the King´s felt hat and then had the correct reduced speed of some 120 m/s to create the actual holes in the King´s cranium with the entry hole being much larger than the exit hole. This was in fact an ongoing bombardment that caused casualties both before and after the fatal hit on the King.

He had to be pretty close to cop a canister hit. Why did the Swedes drive their trenches so close? Shortage of appropriate siege train?

Jotun wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:59 pm

Belushi TD wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:09 pm .I've no experience with autopsies, gunshot wounds or the like, but it appears to me that the ball must have been going JUST fast enough to enter, but NOT QUITE fast enough to leave. Not to be morbid or disrespectful, but otherwise, wouldn't hydrostatic shock caused his head to have exploded?

Belushi TD

Nope, behold the head from the other side:

Micael wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:50 pm

Johnnie Lyle wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 6:10 pm

pandion wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:47 pm This subject was thoroughly investigated by ballistics and forensic experts in Sweden a decade ago, including trial firings at various speeds etc at fake heads (of plastics). The conclusion reached was the same as the one described: An iron ball from a canister round fired from the Overberg fortification could have penetrated the King´s felt hat and then had the correct reduced speed of some 120 m/s to create the actual holes in the King´s cranium with the entry hole being much larger than the exit hole. This was in fact an ongoing bombardment that caused casualties both before and after the fatal hit on the King.

He had to be pretty close to cop a canister hit. Why did the Swedes drive their trenches so close? Shortage of appropriate siege train?

The cross on this map marks the location of his death. You can see the Norwegian fortress on the left there.

Johnnie Lyle wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 3:12 am

Micael wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:50 pm

Johnnie Lyle wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 6:10 pm
He had to be pretty close to cop a canister hit. Why did the Swedes drive their trenches so close? Shortage of appropriate siege train?

The cross on this map marks the location of his death. You can see the Norwegian fortress on the left there.

Is that the first parallel they were trying to construct at around 500 meters, or does that map not have all the Swedish trenches? Or did they just do a short first parallel, and then a hasty dig in to around 300 meters?

It looks like they were in a hurry.