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Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2025 1:22 pm
by jemhouston
I'll admit, I do pine for puns on occasion.
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2025 2:06 pm
by Simon Darkshade
You wood, Jem.
As fun as the puns are, I’ll include some forthcoming stuff as well for October:
- A Great Dane and his gang of young friends resolve the mystery of the Amityville Horror
- Some animal reintroductions
- Loss of a Vulcan in Malta
- Shinkansen developments and expansive plans
- US motoring trends and news
- The Red Sox break The Curse
- Some new warships on both sides of the Iron Curtain
- A British policeman dies in the line of duty, the first since 1968
- Argentina begins planning and pushing
- Some interesting developments in electronic music
- Rumours of MIAs in North Vietnam
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2025 4:09 pm
by Simon Darkshade
Sneaky sneak previews of October:
October 1: Opening of the first of four new joint Royal Air Force and Royal Space Force British phased array solid state ABM RDF installations, providing 360 degree coverage out to a range of 4325 nautical miles for aerial and ballistic targets, linked up with arcanely augmented supercomputer systems and certain other special capacities, at RAF Fyllingdales in Yorkshire. The additional stations at RIAF Basantpur near Shimla in India, RAF Meiganga in Cameroon, RAF Sharjah and RCAF Clear in Alaska are designed to provide intersecting arcs of coverage with the extensive American long range radar network, the space based RDF of the RSF orbital stations and to be seamlessly integrated with the Skyguard ground based laser raygun defence stations. RAF spokesmen declare that the installations are perfectly safe, but discourages pregnant women from walking near the radars, just in case.
October 6: Comic book dealer Ronald Castree is arrested for the attempted abduction of 9 year old Lesley Molseed in Rochdale, after having been spotted in the process of attempting to take the girl in an alleyway, and a local man taking down the number plate of his motor car as he fled the hue and cry. Through use of the National Police Computer, Castree is swiftly tracked to his residence and apprehended. He is subsequently tried and sentenced to 50 years hard labour.
October 15: Dr. Heinrich Schuetz is sentenced to death by a Munich court for causing the death of 11 prisoners in Dachau during the Second World War through human experimentation authorised by Himmler. In contrast to earlier war crimes trials, there does seem to be a certain sense of mounting disquiet at the continuing Allied insistence upon extremely vigorous German investigation and harsh punishment of Nazi war criminals from certain conservative quarters.
October 16: The Secretary of War announces that a further six infantry divisions will be activated by 1978 in line with the Reagan Administration’s policy of Peace Through Strength and the Army 2000 reorganisation of divisional composition and TOEs, consisting of the 69th, 75th, 87th, 90th, 100th and 106th Infantry Divisions. Additionally, a number of intermediate combined arms Field Forces are to be formed in line with successful British and French practices, and further specific light infantry formations will be raised to augment current Ranger, Commando and Indian Scouts units in the light of operations in Indochina and Africa.
October 23: CIA and USARV officers in Saigon authorise clandestine investigation of rumours of several hundred MIAs allegedly being held in North Vietnam, with the potential for a special reconnaissance mission to be explored, along with a number of aerial photography and radar missions by specially equipped SR-71s with new side looking radar. At this stage, there is a general concern that the discovery of a significant number of surviving Americans and other Free World personnel in the North could damage the hitherto successful ceasefire.
October 28: An astronomical conference on the study of the neighbouring stars to the Sun suggests that, of the nearest systems, Alpha Centauri, Barnard’s Star, Luhman 16, Kerbol, Sirius, Epsilon Eridani, Procyon and Tau Ceti are the foremost for research in the coming decades to determine if they were responsible for the interstellar signal.
October 30: Opening of the world’s largest theme park at Alton Towers in Staffordshire, with six separate parks in addition to the central eponymous amusement park - Sea Land, The Wild Frontier, Beyond 2000, Olde England, Our Wonderful World and The Empire of Adventure - along with a breathtaking scenic cable car ride. The futuristic stylings of Beyond 2000 attract the most enthusiastic plaudits from the lucky boys and girls invited to try the new attractions prior to opening, with their flashy lasers and the electronic music of Vangelis and Jean-Michel Jarre augmenting the excitement.
October 31: A seemingly possessed house, which had previously been the scene of a horrific family mass shooting some years earlier, is exposed as an attempted fraud by a crooked real estate agent by the investigations of a certain enterprising Great Dane and his supporting group of friends, with the naughty villain admitting to blackmailing a local hedge wizard into creating the appearance of paranormal or demonic activity. He is caught literally red handed, having disguised himself as a ghoul to leave fake ectoplasm and bloody handprints all over the upstairs bedrooms, and is heard to exclaim that 'I would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for these meddling kids and their dog!' before being hauled away by NYSP troopers and an FBI paladin.
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2025 5:24 am
by Simon Darkshade
October 1975
October 1: Opening of the first of four new joint Royal Air Force and Royal Space Force British phased array solid state ABM RDF installations, providing 360 degree coverage out to a range of 4325 nautical miles for aerial and ballistic targets, linked up with arcanely augmented supercomputer systems and certain other special capacities, at RAF Fyllingdales in Yorkshire. The additional stations at RIAF Basantpur near Shimla in India, RAF Meiganga in Cameroon, RAF Sharjah and RCAF Clear in Alaska are designed to provide intersecting arcs of coverage with the extensive American long range radar network, the space based RDF of the RSF orbital stations and to be seamlessly integrated with the Skyguard ground based laser raygun defence stations. RAF spokesmen declare that the installations are perfectly safe, but discourages pregnant women from walking near the radars, just in case.
October 2: TIME Magazine leads with an in-depth story on the comparative wealth of the leading countries of the Western world, with the United States leading not just in terms of GDP/Capita, but in a variety of other indices including house size, economic stability, and the number of automobiles per household. Sweden leads the way on life expectancy, family friendliness and crime rates, whilst Britain and Australia tied on the lowest energy prices and the state of their job markets, the Benelux states head the pack on income equality, Germany leads the way on public transportation commute times and Switzerland on pollution levels. In general, North American cars are the largest on average in the world, and the emerging differences between its market and that of Europe are foreseen as having an interesting potential for further divergence, with the brief popularity of smaller cars now having given way to previous patterns.
October 3: The Ministry of Agriculture, Fishing and Food, after careful consideration of a White Paper on the issue, approves a plan for the phased reintroduction of certain species of wild animals into controlled mainland areas of the British Isles, with the first group to include the woolly rhinoceros, wisent, yale, giant boar, grey bear and the great auk. The further reintroduction of certain predatory beasts, such as the lion, tyger, enfield and grey bear, are to be conducted on a case by case basis utilised sorcerously fenced lands. Additionally, efforts to protect the native population of reindeer, elk, moose, giant deer and lynx are to be coordinated through a new legislative framework, particularly regulating any hunting activities as necessary.
October 4: Discovery of the Algerian nuthatch by French naturalists scouting out sites in the Petite Kabyle mountains of Northern Algeria for possible wildlife presence so as to rule particular peaks out of the French early warning plan for their North African department, whereby the strategic missile fields of the deep Sahara are protected by an intersecting system of radar monitoring systems and SAM belts. The discovery of the new bird leads to plans for a radar atop the Djebel Babor to be relocated.
October 5: Formation of the Swedish Hockey League, Rory the twelve finest teams in the realm to compete in the Scandinavian nation’s most popular sport. Further plans for a World Cup of ice hockey continue to be debated, albeit with more interest and intensity from colder hockey-playing states.
October 6: Comic book dealer Ronald Castree is arrested for the attempted abduction of 9 year old Lesley Molseed in Rochdale, after having been spotted in the process of attempting to take the girl in an alleyway, and a local man taking down the number plate of his motor car as he fled the hue and cry. Through use of the National Police Computer, Castree is swiftly tracked to his residence and apprehended. He is subsequently tried and sentenced to 50 years hard labour.
October 7: A great fleet review at Simonstown in South Africa is reviewed by the Prince of Wales as part of his tour of Southern Africa. Along with the ships of the Royal South African Navy and contingents from Prydain, New Avalon, Canada, the West Indies, Australia, New Zealand and India, the review features the Royal Navy amphibious battleship HMS Royal Arthur and the versatile Antarctic patrol ship, HMS Terra Nova, the French guided missile cruiser Suffren, and, providing the most substantive interest for many observers, the new US cruiser Los Angeles (CGN-218) and her Soviet counterpart Komsomolets, their newest 30,000t guided missile cruiser.
October 8: The Royal Canadian Mounted Police begin fielding special female officers for particular contingencies involving women, children or delicate situations, rather than having to rely upon local policewomen for reinforcement.
October 9: Germany and Poland sign an agreement allowing for the emigration of 200,000 former German nationals from now Polish areas of West Prussia and Silesia in exchange for two billion Deutschmarks in credit and 50 milling machines. Whilst the majority of the German population of Poland had been expelled by the Red authorities in the aftermath of the Second World War, the deteriorating nature of the relationship between the erstwhile Allies saw the Oder frontier gradually close, leaving a not insubstantial amount ethnic Germans still in Poland and yet unwilling to move to the German Democratic Republic in the former East Prussia.
October 10: Apollo Creed's plans to mark the United States Bicentennial with a world heavyweight title fight in Philadelphia are disrupted after his intended opponent Joe Frazier has to pull out with injury. Creed's team instead formulates an idea for selecting an unknown local boxer to showcase the nature of the American dream and offering them a princely prize of $500,000 for the fight, fixing upon one Robert Balboa, a local Philadelphian journeyman and club boxer, whose nickname strikes them as potentially marketable.
October 11: A British policeman dies in line of duty for the first time since 1968 (which was itself the first time since 1945) when PC James Smith is shot by a demented old gentleman with his old service revolver who believed he was a dragon come to eat him up 'like quail'. The general decline in violent crime and the accompanying harsh penalties has made such incidences extremely rare events and questions are asked how similar tragedies might be avoided in the future
October 12: Duff Beer and Nuka Cola settle a legal dispute over copyright and restraint of trade issues over certain similar features in their respective beverage-based theme parks, with some token minor alterations made by each party to provide an end to the protracted and increasingly costly lawsuit. Upon advice from counsel, the newly rebranded ‘Man of Duff’ demurs when asked if, as official mascot, he would be prepared to take a ceremonial drink with Bottle and Cappy, his counterparts.
October 13: Completion of the Sanyo Shinkansen linking Osaka and Fukuoka, which in turn allows for travel from Tokyo to Fukuoka in just under 4 hours, even allowing for the slight delay of the Kanmon Tunnel. Plans for further expansion to include a northern line to Hokkaido, a great west coast line linking Kyoto and Aomori and extensions into the islands of Kyushu and Kai.
October 14: An RAF Bomber Command Avro Vulcan suffers an inflight emergency and explodes over RAF Luqa in Malta, with the crew capsule managing to eject and just evade the conflagration. The aircraft wreckage lands on Sanctuary Street in Zabbar, but almost miraculously, there are no fatalities on the ground amid three dozen casualties; one of the fuel tanks just managed to miss a school in a particularly fortunate occurrence. The Vulcan had been engaging in a training flight from RAF Waddington to Malta and thence to Singapore, and was not carrying nuclear weapons at the time.
October 15: Dr. Heinrich Schuetz is sentenced to death by a Munich court for causing the death of 11 prisoners in Dachau during the Second World War through human experimentation authorised by Himmler. In contrast to earlier war crimes trials, there does seem to be a certain sense of mounting disquiet at the continuing Allied insistence upon extremely vigorous German investigation and harsh punishment of Nazi war criminals from certain conservative quarters.
October 16: The Secretary of War announces that a further six infantry divisions will be activated by 1978 in line with the Reagan Administration’s policy of Peace Through Strength and the Army 2000 reorganisation of divisional composition and TOEs, consisting of the 69th, 75th, 87th, 90th, 100th and 106th Infantry Divisions. Additionally, a number of intermediate combined arms Field Forces are to be formed in line with successful British and French practices, and further specific light infantry formations will be raised to augment current Ranger, Commando and Indian Scouts units in the light of operations in Indochina and Africa.
October 17: Release of Jutland, an epic war film about the decisive 1916 battle between the Grand Fleet and the German High Seas Fleet, which saw 20 German battleships and 5 battlecruisers lost or captured in exchange for 6 British ships, sending the British Empire into joyous raptures and striking Admiral von Tirpitz stone dead with a paroxysm of shock. Kenneth More reprises his role as Admiral Sir John Jellicoe, Laurence Olivier plays Admiral Sir John Fisher and the picture further stars Richard Burton as First Lord Sir Winston Churchill, Robert Shaw as Admiral Von Scheer, Anthony Hopkins as Lloyd George, Michael Byrne as Admiral von Hipper and Jeremy Kemp as Kaiser Wilhelm. In a year of 'blockbuster' pictures, Jutland is regarded as not standing out decisively, but is very highly regarded by critics for its technical achievements and realistic rendering of the greatest sea battle of all time.
October 18: Peter Samuel Cook, otherwise known as the Cambridge Rapist, is hanged at dawn for rape at HMP Springfield, having pled guilty and being sentenced to death for six counts of rape on October 3rd. Police forces across Britain begin discussing measures to prevent a repetition of such a heinous crime, including increasing operational numbers of women police constables.
October 19: The Royal Australian Air Force issues requirements for a very long range fighter-interceptor, a multirole strike fighter and a tactical battlefield light fighter to replace their current fleet of Fairey Delta IIs, Avro Arrows and Hawker-Siddeley Merlins in the former two cases, and to provide for a forward deployable, versatile air support aircraft in New Guinea, Timor and Northern Australia.
October 20: Two subway trains of the Mexico City Metro collide with one another after the first is bought to a stop by an unknown person or persons repeatedly pulling the emergency cord, and over 40 people are thought to have been killed amongst the hundreds of casualties. The Emperor attends the scene in the evening, and promises that a full investigation will leave no stone unturned in the search for the individuals and systems responsible for the terrible accident.
October 21: Publication by the Air Ministry of an RAF operational requirement for a versatile multirole light strike aircraft capable of carrying out bomber, fighter, reconaissance, strike and ground attack missions.
October 22: The Boston Red Sox win the final game of the 1975 World Series over the New York Knights 4-3 at Fenway Park, and, in doing so, break 'The Curse' which had beset the team since 1918, when it was placed upon them by a vengeful wizard furious at the sale of Babe Ruth to the New York Yankees. The Red Sox had tried numerous methods of breaking The Curse in the intervening 57 years, including hiring adventurers to track down rumours of the vengeful wizard (which ended in a cornfield in Iowa for some reason), alchemical assistance and wearing the insignia of a four leaf clover, but finally accomplished it through plain old baseball.
October 23: CIA and USARV officers in Saigon authorise clandestine investigation of rumours of several hundred MIAs allegedly being held in North Vietnam, with the potential for a special reconnaissance mission to be explored, along with a number of aerial photography and radar missions by specially equipped SR-71s with new side looking radar. At this stage, there is a general concern that the discovery of a significant number of surviving Americans and other Free World personnel in the North could damage the hitherto successful ceasefire.
October 24: Publication of the maiden issue of Soldier of Fortune, an American magazine aimed at the growing market of mercenaries, adventurers and frontiersmen interested in the evolving counterinsurgency wars in Africa. Some sources place the number of active mercenaries in the Congo and Portuguese Africa at over 9000, with thousands of others variously in the employ of Rhodesia, Kenya and the new Ugandan regime in a number of roles. The first issue is notable for a photographic step by step guide modelled by Sir Christopher Lee of the newfangled ‘Mozambique drill’ of close quarter shooting.
October 25: Debut airing of Woodentop, a British police procedural drama broadcast by ITV depicting the day in the life of a brand new constable fresh out of National Service and police training at Peel House, PC James Carver, in the Metropolitan Police assigned to a slightly fictionalised version of Sun Hill Police Station in South London, with his first day featuring a helping little lost girl find her mummy, rescuing a drunk Soviet diplomat stuck up a tree from a vicious kitten, administering appropriate chastisement to a cheeky youth, arresting a confidence artist attempting to swindle a restaurant, and subduing a dangerous intruder trapped in a cellar; the last turns out to be a rather large rat, whose size and great big nasty teeth are no match for PCs Stamp and Carver's Webley automatics. The episode concludes with the new constable being commended by his sergeant for forcefully setting the tearaway youngster on the straight and narrow, but reminded that the struggle against crime and wickedness never stops.
October 26: General elections in Brazil result in no single party achieving a majority in the national parliament, with the National Renewal Party winning the most seats, ahead of the Labour Party, Social Democratic Party, National Democrats, the Socialist Party, Liberal Party, Imperial Conservatives and the Trotskyite Social Workers' Party. The Emperor indicates that he will allow as long as necessary to form a workable coalition, given the particular requirements of the current situation.
October 27: The Argentinian General Staff is ordered to begin the long and arduous process of completely updating war plans for potential conflicts with Chile, Brazil, Prydain, Uruguay, Paraguay, Aranguay, Bolivia and Peru to reflect the modern strategic situation of South America, changes in armaments and nuclear questions. A second, highly clandestine detachment is ordered to prepare a top secret theoretical study on potential options and force requirements should Buenos Aires find itself in a conflict with any of the three superpowers. Premier Rodriguez's intention is to broadly focus the attentions of his staff and certain ambitious officers more outwardly than inwardly, with a view towards preserving Argentina's enviable record as the most stable South American state, and to potentially develop the capacity to distract mounting internal opposition to his domestic policies and suppression of leftist groups with external affairs of state.
October 28: An astronomical conference on the study of the neighbouring stars to the Sun suggests that, of the nearest systems, Alpha Centauri, Barnard’s Star, Luhman 16, Kerbol, Sirius, Epsilon Eridani, Procyon and Tau Ceti are the foremost for research in the coming decades to determine if they were responsible for the interstellar signal.
October 29: Release of Soldiers of Orange, a new Dutch epic war romance, telling the story of Dutch soldiers, resistance members and civilians during the German occupation and the continued war fought by exiled forces in Britain, directed by Paul Verhoeven and starring Rutger Hauer, Jeroen Krabbe, Edmond Classen, Hans van Tongeren, Erik van 't Wout, Susan Penhaligon, Edward Fox, Louis Jourdan and Sean Connery as King Willem IV.
October 30: Opening of the world’s largest theme park at Alton Towers in Staffordshire, with six separate parks in addition to the central eponymous amusement park - Sea Land, The Wild Frontier, Beyond 2000, Olde England, Our Wonderful World and The Empire of Adventure - along with a breathtaking scenic cable car ride. The futuristic stylings of Beyond 2000 attract the most enthusiastic plaudits from the lucky boys and girls invited to try the new attractions prior to opening, with their flashy lasers and the electronic music of Vangelis and Jean-Michel Jarre augmenting the excitement.
October 31: A seemingly possessed house, which had previously been the scene of a horrific family mass shooting some years earlier, is exposed as an attempted fraud by a crooked real estate agent by the investigations of a certain enterprising Great Dane and his supporting group of friends, with the naughty villain admitting to blackmailing a local hedge wizard into creating the appearance of paranormal or demonic activity. He is caught literally red handed, having disguised himself as a ghoul to leave fake ectoplasm and bloody handprints all over the upstairs bedrooms, and is heard to exclaim that 'I would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for these meddling kids and their dog!' before being hauled away by NYSP troopers and an FBI paladin.
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2025 3:17 pm
by Belushi TD
I have time this day to go into some detail about the timeline. I very much like some of the easter eggs in this one, specifically Robert Balboa and Man of Duff.
Is the Vulcan in flight emergency a historical event?
I don't understand why the October 15th disquiet. What are the conservative quarters?
Interesting that they're activating 6 infantry divisions. Is there something going on that I don't know about, or is it Cold War machinations, aimed at the soviet union?
The High Seas fleet lost 20 battleships and 5 battlecruisers at Jutland? Holy crap. Is that due to a much larger fleet as per most orders of battle in DE? Is there a Jutland fact file out there?
Particularly like the aside on October 22nd.
Was the rat a ROUS?
I particularly enjoy the idea of Argentina as the most stable South American state.
Why would they need to study which star is the source of the signal? The listed stars, while close to Sol, are in wildly divergent directions, aren't they? Or is there something going on that I am unaware of or missed?
Will King Willem IV have a Scottish accent?
Keep up the good work!
Belushi TD
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2025 3:57 pm
by Bernard Woolley
King Willem IV will sound like he is from Fountainbridge.

Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2025 3:42 am
by Simon Darkshade
Belushi TD wrote: ↑Thu Oct 16, 2025 3:17 pm
I have time this day to go into some detail about the timeline. I very much like some of the easter eggs in this one, specifically Robert Balboa and Man of Duff.
Is the Vulcan in flight emergency a historical event?
I don't understand why the October 15th disquiet. What are the conservative quarters?
Interesting that they're activating 6 infantry divisions. Is there something going on that I don't know about, or is it Cold War machinations, aimed at the soviet union?
The High Seas fleet lost 20 battleships and 5 battlecruisers at Jutland? Holy crap. Is that due to a much larger fleet as per most orders of battle in DE? Is there a Jutland fact file out there?
Particularly like the aside on October 22nd.
Was the rat a ROUS?
I particularly enjoy the idea of Argentina as the most stable South American state.
Why would they need to study which star is the source of the signal? The listed stars, while close to Sol, are in wildly divergent directions, aren't they? Or is there something going on that I am unaware of or missed?
Will King Willem IV have a Scottish accent?
Keep up the good work!
Belushi TD
Huzzah!
There are indeed perhaps a few more than usual eggs in this one.
1.) The use of the proper name 'Robert Balboa' is more of a testament to the slightly more formal mores of DE media and communication than anything truly different about the character. Both of his parents are still alive, and his work with a local loanshark is a bit more light grey in its nature rather than the grittier, darker grey of our 1970s Rocky; if a film was made, the chap in question would seem more like a Philadelphian Arthur Daley.
2.) The Vulcan crash was a historical event, with a few changes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_%C5% ... lcan_crash
Note that these are much larger Vulcans with 8 engines, a 200ft+ wingspan and an empty weight of ~ 160 tons.
3.) Historically, capital punishment was abolished in West Germany in 1949, motivated in part by a desire to avoid the likes of the death sentences handed out to Nazi war criminals by Allied tribunals:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_p ... in_Germany
Here, that does not occur, thanks to some rather more rigorous denazification and restriction on the type of laws that Allied Occupied Germany was allowed to legislate upon in the late 1940s-early 1950s period. Capital punishment remains popular amongst the general population, and supported by the governing parties.
The 'certain conservative quarters' mentioned here are the broad equivalents of the Deutsche Partei and their descendant groups. Given the distance of 30 years since the war, there is a sense from these groups that continued pursuit of assorted minor Nazis is somewhat infringing upon true German sovereignty. This isn't a point of view shared by the overwhelming majority of German political groups, but there is a bit of a frustrated sense that wishes the likes of Britain and the USA 'stop talking about the war'
4.) What is going on is that the last part of the Vietnam era mobilisation of the National Guard has been completed, and that has left a bit of a gap in contingency forces for South America, Africa and the Middle East, and has cut into some of the CONUS based forces that cover Europe and the Pacific.
In 1960, or before the Kennedy build-up and Vietnam, the US Army had 40 divisions, having demobilised from the Korean War peak of 64. By 1965, that had increased to 52 with newly raised divisions and various NG and AR divisions called up for service. 1970 saw the peak of 67 divisions, the largest part of which were based in CONUS for training et al, and now, as of 1975, it has fallen back to 54. These further 6 will bring the Army to an even 60 divisions, which it feels is the minimum necessary.
Of those, the interesting one from a US standpoint will be the 26th Infantry Division, which was federalised in 1961, but then shifted to a Regular Army division over the 1960s, with the Massachusetts National Guard formation being rebadged as the 39th Infantry Division, whilst retaining all of the history, battle honours, lineage and insignia of the old formation.
So overall, it is less of a 'Reagan Administration Build Up' and more of a 'Reagan Administration Army Restructuring', so that there are sufficient forces to cover multiple contingencies, whilst doing so in a manner which doesn't absolutely throw all financial caution to the wind. The 6 new units are the equivalent of ROAD infantry divisions, with a minimum of 9 infantry battalions and 1 armored battalion; that is going to change when the details of the Army 2000 paper come out properly in 1976, but they are not mechanised/Bradley and M113 infantry nor light infantry/leg infantry.
5.) From the FAQ
36. How was the Battle of Jutland different and what were its impacts and consequences?
These extracts should be illustrative:
"This Jutland was no tactically inconclusive brawl with comparatively little bearing on the wider war, but an overwhelming and decisive strategic victory for the Royal Navy. There were at least three supporting light cruiser engagements, clashes between seaplane and aircraft carriers of both sides and a pitched battle between the armoured cruiser screens of both fleets. These were only preliminaries to the main fleet action. 36 dreadnoughts, 60 cruisers and 154 destroyers of the Grand Fleet had faced off against the 24 dreadnoughts, 14 predreadnoughts, 32 cruisers and 84 destroyers of the German High Seas Fleet, sinking 14 and capturing – by boarding no less! – 6 others in exchange for only 4 battleships, while the 12 British battlecruisers had sunk 5 of their 8 German counterparts for the loss of only 2 battlecruisers. "
"Admiral Von Scheer... supported far more aggressive action by Germany on the North Sea in order to wear down the numerial advantage of the Royal Navy. The main method of this was to be a series of raids on British ports that would lure out the Grand Fleet into concentrated submarine ambushes and engagements that would attrit their numbers. A large operation, incorporating the German surface fleet, U-Boats and Zeppelins, was planned for the end of May 1916, in order to gain a significant advantage prior to the expected entry of the United States of America into the war on the Entente side.
Unfortunately for the Germans, their wireless communications and ciphers had been deciphered by British naval intelligence due to the capture of a German codebook and Room 40, the secret cryptological analysis section of the Admiralty, had indicated that the High Seas Fleet was definitely preparing to sail on May 31st. Upon receipt of this information, Admiral Sir John Jellicoe, Commander-in-Chief of the Grand Fleet, decided to sortie the fleet and position it to take up a position off the southern coast of Norway to intercept the Germans. Jellicoe sailed from Scapa Flow with 32 dreadnoughts, 54 cruisers, 42 frigates and 136 destroyers at 22:30 on May 30th, linking up with an additional force of 4 super-dreadnoughts, 6 cruisers and 18 destroyers from Cromarty, whilst Sir Horace Hood's Battlecruiser Fleet of 12 battlecruisers, 28 cruisers, 18 frigates and 48 destroyers departed the Firth of Forth before dawn on the 31st. The two forces were scheduled to rendezvous 100 miles west of the mouth of the Skagerrak in the afternoon; the egress of the British battlecruisers was detected by German picket U-Boats on station off the coast of Scotland, but the Grand Fleet evaded detection through the sheer strength of its anti-submarine screen.
The Aircraft Carrier Force, consisting of the five aeroplane carriers and four seaplane carriers, operating detached from the main battle force with an escort of armoured cruisers and frigates, put up a continual aerial screen to aid the reconnaissance capacity of the Grand Fleet, in conjunction with twelve airships of the Royal Naval Air Service. The outer elements of both fleets met from 13:30 on the afternoon of May 31st, with the initial clashes taking place between the light cruiser screens and then the armoured cruiser forces, just as the Battle Cruiser Fleet ran directly into the German counterparts. Imperial German Navy Zeppelins seeking out the main body of the Grand Fleet were harassed by Sopwith Camels launched from the Royal Navy carriers, but none were badly damaged due to the limited armament of the British aeroplanes. 16 torpedo bombers were launched from Eagle and Aragon to attack the German aeroplane carrier Friedrich Carl and succeeded in scoring one hit on the enemy vessel, forcing it from the growing mayhem of the battle. When the main fleet action commenced at 1740 with Jellicoe crossing Scheer's T, a moment noted by German survivors as one where the entire arc of the horizon erupted in an enormous sea of fire as the Grand Fleet began to pour broadside after broadside through the smoke and mist into the unfortunate Hoche See Flotte, the role of the various aircraft carriers was sidelined, with the loss of HMS Cantabrian and 537 of its crew to a German U-Boat being on of the more greivous losses suffered on the day."
The impact and consequences of the decisive Jutland victory are the release of destroyers for convoy duty; the use of battleships and cruisers to support the Great Descent on Flanders; a closer blockade of Germany; and the extremely significant morale boost. In the long run, it has some interesting impact on ship design, naval strategy and perceptions of the value of battleships.
7.) The little aside to Field of Dreams is close to compulsory in a baseball related event.
8.) The rat in question was rather large, but not really in the category of Rodents of Unusual Size, which in DE refers to any rat larger than an English Foxhound. These were Rodents of Considerable Size, or around that of a Beagle. The origins of the measurement scale come from Professor Otis Postbane, a bulldog Oxford don and keen ratter.
9.) So many works take Argentina in a different direction; here, whilst they are bereft of Patagonia, they have been markedly more fortunate and have made that leap to the First World that many expected of them in the early 20th century.
10.) The signal came from a general direction, once it was narrowed down, and these stars, the DE stellar neighbourhood, lie in something of a 'quadrant' (even if that term is a tad inaccurate), even though that is different from our universe. Remember that the signal was received in 1966, so that particular technology wasn't quite as precise as it even might be in 1975.
The list does contain one additional major difference from our universe in the addition of Kerbol.
11.) The actor playing King Willem IV speaks Dutch with something of a mildly detectable brogue, and English as he did in Dr. No, which again was a mildly detectable yet clipped Scots brogue, but nowhere near that of his old age, when he 'let it all hang out'.
I shall indeed continue, and destroy all enemies
Simon
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2025 3:51 am
by Simon Darkshade
Bernard Woolley wrote: ↑Thu Oct 16, 2025 3:57 pm
King Willem IV will sound like he is from Fountainbridge.
Sort of. As said back in August, "
we’re all having a giggle about late career Sean Connery - that era of The Untouchables, The Hunt for Red October, LExG and Finding Forrester. In his earlier films, whilst there was an Edinburgh brogue, he kept it far more under control.
Consider this conversation with Dr. No: https://youtu.be/-bpvvOBV-q0?si=0X6OzODnQ5togeZk
We can hear at 1:24 or so Bond/Connery say words to the effect that “She has nothing to do with us”, which in his later career, would almost certainly have come out as “She has nothing to do with ush”
The DE Sean Connery of 1975 is more like his Earthly equivalent of 1962/63"
So King Willem may well sound like his is from Scotland, but not from Shcotland.

Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2025 12:16 pm
by Simon Darkshade
October 1975 Notes
- The new British ABM warning radars are extremely powerful and long ranged, being rather more capable than the subsequent PAVE PAWS
- America being out in front in terms of GDP/capita is much of a historical muchness, as are house size and the number of cars. The notable jarring elements, at least for modern readers, are in German trains being the most punctual in the world, British and Australian energy prices being low and Sweden having low crime; these were still largely true in the 1970s. US cars, after a brief early 1970s dalliance, are not undergoing a period of getting smaller as we saw in @ post 1973 oil shock
- Reintroducing certain animals is being done carefully, so that the general ecosystem and food chain isn't thrown out of whack inordinately
- The Algerian nuthatch is discovered for a different reason, with the French LRBM/ICBM fields in the Sahara flowing on from holding Algeria
- Ronald Castree is interrupted before he gets to murder poor little Leslie Molseed, and if we read between the lines, the bloke who historically was sent to prison for the murder, Stefan Kiszko, is partly responsible for Castree getting caught. A little case of fictional redress
- The Simonstown Fleet Review features HMS Terra Nova, which here is an atomic powered icebreaker the size of the Soviet Arktikas, with a medium calibre gun, various self defence weapons and capacity for 6-8 helicopters; and the American and Soviet guided missile cruisers. The general characteristics of the latter types are broadly similar, both being nuclear powered cruisers, but their differences in design philosophy are quite marked
- Now, the Mounties can always get their woman as well
- The German-Polish deal is broadly similar, but allows for disquieting mention of the GDR
- Apollo Creed looks to have found someone to fight him on New Years' Day
- Historically, there hadn't been too many British policemen killed on active duty up until the mid 1970s, with the Harry Roberts case being the noticeable standout; it doesn't occur on DE, with instead the London Outrage being the trigger for a lot of things. Developments are going to flow in a somewhat different direction to that of our subsequent history, without some of the triggering mechanisms (race riots, Libyan embassys) for some of the tragic historical losses
- Nuka World and Duff Gardens will have to have some changes made under the (confidential) terms of the deal
- The Shinkansen is rather faster, if we work out the distance from Tokyo to Fukuoka and then give it the ol' DE distance conversion
- Loss of a Vulcan over Malta is a historical event; given the size of the plane here, it is much more fortunate not to take out a whole block and everyone in it
- Heinrich Schuetz getting sentenced to death is a symptom of an approach that is starting to grate on the German far right and right
- New US divisions are not simply light infantry, but rather more like ROAD infantry divisions. Light infantry, in our sense, will come in due course, albeit maybe not in the form of divisions, but rather some of the Field Forces, which are closer to a mixture between the small French divisions of the 1970s and 80s and the British Army FF of the 1970s, which had 5 battalions and support in some cases. The rationale for new divisions comes from the completion of post Vietnam demobbing of ARNG units and needing to cover a number of different potential missions. Note also that the 26th Infantry Division is now a Regular Army unit, having been federalised in 1961, then shifted to a Regular Army division over the 1960s, with the Massachusetts National Guard formation being rebadged as the 39th Infantry Division, whilst retaining all of the history, battle honours, lineage and insignia of the old formation
- Jutland is a big film that befits a big battle, with plenty of battleship action shots, aerial images and memorable sequences; consider that 6 of the German battleships lost were captured, some by boarding
- The Cambridge Rapist cops it here, with the only good thing to come out of the circumstance being some more female bobbies
- RAAF requirements are very exacting, with several aircraft being already considered for the long range role, including the Northrop-Grumman F-14, the McDonnell-Douglas F-15, the North American-Republic F-20, and newer British planes
- I wonder what might come from October 21st's specification
- The Red Sox beat The Curse rather earlier, despite a detour in search of a field of dreams
- Some chaps start looking into the MIA issue
- Soldier of Fortune gets a slightly earlier start and is without the Bush War as the same initial focus. Christopher Lee demonstrating the Mozambique Drill through pictures is inspired by a double page spread in Time Life's Cooking of the World volume on 'Scandinavian Cooking', which featured Max von Sydow demonstrating how to skoll
- Woodentop is markedly different to the later The Bill from our world, by virtue of British police being armed as a matter of course; the general crime rate being rather lower; the type of crimes being a bit 'lighter', and the type of clip under the ear to a cheeky/mouthy teenage boy being seen as thoroughly conventional compared to the different reaction in the 1983 pilot
- Brazilian elections are featuring a lot more than the designated government party backed by the military, and the designated opposition
- Rodriguez in Argentina is trying to turn the focus of some of his rivals outward in a bit of a play for time. The likelihood of having a go at the Falklands is still very, very low, if for no other reason than the distances involved
- Mention of Kerbol as a nearby star might have something to do with all the reports of little green men. Or it might not
- Soldiers of Orange here reflects the different Dutch war experience, including an earlier liberation courtesy of a successful Market Garden
- Alton Towers is rather larger, and Beyond 2000 does feature an Oxygene ride
- Scooby Doo and friends solve the Mystery of the Amityville Horror
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2025 12:52 pm
by Simon Darkshade
I usually like to wait until I've got around 6 things to put in a sneak preview of the next month, but I like the way this one turned out:
November 10: The Great Lakes freighter SS Edmund Fitzgerald, loaded with 26,000 tons of iron ore from a mill in Wisconsin intended for a steelworks near Detroit, runs into a freakish November storm on Lake Superior and is severely pressed to avoid foundering before it can make the comparative safe waters of Whitefish Bay. The wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald is averted by a seemingly inexplicable event, whereby amid the contrary winds and being tossed by the waves, a strange music is heard through the ship's wireless, exhorting the crew to 'Rise again, rise again', and a glowing light is seen off the port bow in the image of a man walking away from the near-stricken vessel, light of foot across the waves themselves. Captain McSorley turns his ship towards the figure in a moment of decision, and despite the odds, manages to somehow successfully ground the ship on the sands of the beach just east of Whitefish Point Lighthouse. Subsequent Coast Guard investigations conclude that it must have been the lighthouse's beacon through the storm, with the notion of some form of magnetic music and miraculous figures being dismissed after thorough cross-referencing with the Federal Department of Superhuman Affairs, who confirm that none of their rostered costumed members was active on the Great Lakes that night and the Department of Magic, who could find no traces of any recognisable spells of any of the colours; the disparity between the thrice-minutely flash of the lighthouse and the continuing glow is dismissed as a stress reaction. SS Edmund Fitzgerald is later refloated with the aid of tugs, maritime sorcerers and Jalicharde Räelye, the venerable Great Wyrm of the Lakes, and towed into Sault Ste. Marie for proper repairs, with her cargo having been extracted by a specialist firm of giants.
If anyone can pick up everything slipped into that one, I'd be seriously impressed to the point of a little cameo
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2025 6:55 pm
by Eaglenine2
The Mary Ellen Carter?
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2025 11:51 pm
by Rocket J Squrriel
May I ask where the FAQ is located?
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2025 12:38 am
by Simon Darkshade
Right here, in the thread marked ‘Introduction and FAQ’ :
viewtopic.php?t=2489
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2025 2:27 am
by Simon Darkshade
Eaglenine2 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 19, 2025 6:55 pm
The Mary Ellen Carter?
Very well spotted.
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2025 10:48 am
by Simon Darkshade
November Sneaky Preview
November 1: Kaiser Wilhelm V signs an act which authorises the Kriegsministrie to raise four further regular divisions of the Imperial German Army, bringing it to a strength of 40. Additionally, the establishment of a number of intermediate formations, provisionally designated as kampfgruppe, is authorised by separate provisions, allowing for coordination and deployment of further field forces without exceeding peacetime levels agreed upon at Stockholm in 1961. The Reserveheer, Landwehr and Heimwehr are to remain at their currently appointed levels, whilst the Ersatzheer is to continue to not organise units above regimental strength.
November 10: The Great Lakes freighter SS Edmund Fitzgerald, loaded with 26,000 tons of iron ore from a mill in Wisconsin intended for a steelworks near Detroit, runs into a freakish November storm on Lake Superior and is severely pressed to avoid foundering before it can make the comparative safe waters of Whitefish Bay. The wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald is averted by a seemingly inexplicable event, whereby amid the contrary winds and being tossed by the waves, a strange music is heard through the ship's wireless, exhorting the crew to 'Rise again, rise again', and a glowing light is seen off the port bow in the image of a man walking away from the near-stricken vessel, light of foot across the waves themselves. Captain McSorley turns his ship towards the figure in a moment of decision, and despite the odds, manages to somehow successfully ground the ship on the sands of the beach just east of Whitefish Point Lighthouse. Subsequent Coast Guard investigations conclude that it must have been the lighthouse's beacon through the storm, with the notion of some form of magnetic music and miraculous figures being dismissed after thorough cross-referencing with the Federal Department of Superhuman Affairs, who confirm that none of their rostered costumed members was active on the Great Lakes that night and the Department of Magic, who could find no traces of any recognisable spells of any of the colours; the disparity between the thrice-minutely flash of the lighthouse and the continuing glow is dismissed as a stress reaction. SS Edmund Fitzgerald is later refloated with the aid of tugs, maritime sorcerers and Jalicharde Räelye, the venerable Great Wyrm of the Lakes, and towed into Sault Ste. Marie for proper repairs, with her cargo having been extracted by a specialist firm of giants.
November 20: Decommissioning of USS Montana, the lead ship of the last remaining class of Second World War battleships in service with the United States Navy; her sister ships Kansas, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, Louisiana and Georgia are the last such USN warships remaining on active duty, with the last wartime cruiser decommissioned in 1974, the final warbuilt Gearing class destroyer in 1972 and the last Essex class anti-submarine warfare aircraft carrier, USS Oriskany, being paid off in August. The Reagan Administration is currently considering the utility of proposals for conventionally powered supercarrier and submarine designs to augment its currently projected construction programme.
November 21: Audience enthusiasm for The Star Wars does not seem like substantially abating even some five months after the film’s release, with daily screenings at picture houses in America, Canada, England, Australia and Western Europe still attracting close to full houses, with both adults and children alike thrilling at the daring adventures of Luke Skywalker, Han Solo and Moore Cawbelle.
November 23: An incident occurs at Hawkins National Laboratory in Hawkins, Indiana, with some scurrilous rumours - no doubt created out of thin air by drunks, communists or drunk communists - contending that a woman attempted to force her way into the high security location, whilst official accounts state simply that a number of personnel and soldiers were injured in an exercise. Whatever the cause, a US Army medical support team and quick reaction force is rushed from Fort Benjamin Harrison by Vertibird, and secures the secret joint Department of Energy and Department of Magic facility. A terse Army press statement announces that all personnel are expected to make a full recovery and that no strange things were going on.
November 25: Missing American former Secretary of Magic Harry Houdini appears at a press conference in New York City, announcing that, in concert with Miss Nancy Drew and noted private detective Sam Chandler, and in correspondence with Mr. Nero Wolfe, he has successfully apprehended the infamous international criminal Carmen Sandiego and her partner in crime, Waldo. The pair have been wanted for a variety of nefarious crimes, including the theft of the baton used to conduct the Vienna Boy’s Choir, the finest rug in the Presidential Palace of Caracas and the original steps to the tango.
November 27: The Minnesota Educational Computing Consortium releases an upgraded version of their successful educational computer game The Oregon Trail, now featuring graphics, sound and extended gameplay options, all whilst fitting on a 5.25” floppy disk suitable for school microcomputers. Arrangements for a copy of the educational programme to be purchased for for each of the 125,948 elementary schools and the 62,435 high schools across the United States by the Wayne Foundation.
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2025 11:24 am
by jemhouston
I'm happy someone found Carmen Sandiego and her partner in crime, Waldo.
It's not official until it's been denied.

Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2025 11:26 am
by Simon Darkshade
For so long, no one knew where in the world they were!
An official denial being in any way false or inaccurate? Well, stranger things have happened.
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2025 2:01 pm
by Belushi TD
jemhouston wrote: ↑Mon Oct 20, 2025 11:24 am
I'm happy someone found Carmen Sandiego and her partner in crime, Waldo.
It's not official until it's been denied.
I didn't know Waldo was a criminal.
Missing, yes, but not a criminal!
Also -
I can see that the November 10 entry is jam packed with easter eggs. I recognize that there are supposed to be at least..... 4, I think, but I don't know what at least half of them are, aside from the entry itself about the boat and the pun about the songwriter.
Belushi TD
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2025 2:10 pm
by Simon Darkshade
The twist in the tale/back story that will come out, if only in the notes, is that Wally/Waldo is a victim of rather unfortunate coincidence, what with his habit of showing up everywhere, eventually. This allowed him to be conflated with Carmen Sandiego, who was caught on a beach, where he just happened to be standing next to a red and white striped umbrella.
The further twist in the tail is that Sandiego’s actual accomplice, Oddlaw, was missed, due to having dastardly hidden his moustache under a flesh-coloured moustache net.
Edit: For the Edmund Fitzgerald event, there are:
- The description taking a fair bit directly from or very closely from the lyrics of the Lightfoot song
- A ship being physically ‘attracted’ by the music
- The music coming from a Stan Rogers song that hasn’t yet been recorded…
- Mention of a figure being ‘light of foot’
- Some of the wording about the figure coming from the KJV Matthew 14:22-33
- The ship grounding itself very close to the future site of the Great Lakes Shipwreck Museum
- The name of the Great Wyrm of the Lakes being ~ 90% a muddled up version of Richard J Daley
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2025 12:18 pm
by Belushi TD
Ok, yeah, I knew there were more eggs, but I only picked up on the first and forth overtly.
Figured the name of the Great Wyrm was one, and the ship being attracted but I thought there was more to it.
The rest, well, there were more, but I didn't recognize them!
VERY nice work, Sir!
Belushi TD