US Navy News

The theory and practice of the Profession of Arms through the ages.
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jemhouston
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Re: US Navy News

Post by jemhouston »

Found this on Instapudit

https://www.construction-physics.com/p/ ... dium=email

This is what Glenn Reynolds said about it:

BECAUSE WE HAVE A CORRUPT, INCOMPETENT RULING CLASS? Why Can’t The U.S. Build Ships? The Obama-era purge of the upper levels of the Pentagon removed or chased out most of the people who see their job as preparing for and fighting wars, in favor of time-servers, paper-pushers, and DEI-trainer types. The hollowing out of our defense industrial base was just part of that.

In Houston, there is a push to put power lines underground. I'm wondering if an unsaid reason is to cut down the poles to hang some people from.
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Pdf27
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Re: US Navy News

Post by Pdf27 »

Poohbah wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 12:07 pmAnd that raises all kinds of questions in itself.
The biggest red flag for me is the ringleader being demoted a single rank (to E-7) and the rest getting NJPs. That isn't one small group of rotten SNCOs, but a rotten system creating and protecting them.
War is less costly than servitude. The choice is always between Verdun and Dachau. - Jean Dutourd
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Pdf27
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Re: US Navy News

Post by Pdf27 »

jemhouston wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 1:26 pm Found this on Instapudit

https://www.construction-physics.com/p/ ... dium=email

This is what Glenn Reynolds said about it:

BECAUSE WE HAVE A CORRUPT, INCOMPETENT RULING CLASS? Why Can’t The U.S. Build Ships? The Obama-era purge of the upper levels of the Pentagon removed or chased out most of the people who see their job as preparing for and fighting wars, in favor of time-servers, paper-pushers, and DEI-trainer types. The hollowing out of our defense industrial base was just part of that.
Good read on it here. The US shipbuilding industry has been on life support for 150 years now.
War is less costly than servitude. The choice is always between Verdun and Dachau. - Jean Dutourd
Johnnie Lyle
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Re: US Navy News

Post by Johnnie Lyle »

Pdf27 wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 5:17 pm
Poohbah wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 12:07 pmAnd that raises all kinds of questions in itself.
The biggest red flag for me is the ringleader being demoted a single rank (to E-7) and the rest getting NJPs. That isn't one small group of rotten SNCOs, but a rotten system creating and protecting them.
Which is SOP for the USN’s personnel evaluation system since at least the Clinton Administration.
kdahm
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Re: US Navy News

Post by kdahm »

Johnnie Lyle wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 5:42 pm
Pdf27 wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 5:17 pm
Poohbah wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 12:07 pmAnd that raises all kinds of questions in itself.
The biggest red flag for me is the ringleader being demoted a single rank (to E-7) and the rest getting NJPs. That isn't one small group of rotten SNCOs, but a rotten system creating and protecting them.
Which is SOP for the USN’s personnel evaluation system since at least the Clinton Administration.
Yup. It should have been BCDs all around. Blatantly and deliberately violating the UCMJ and regulations.

Also, pour encourager les autres. As valid now as then. One wonders how many other Starlink dishes were observed on other ships when this broke.
Johnnie Lyle
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Re: US Navy News

Post by Johnnie Lyle »

kdahm wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 5:50 pm
Johnnie Lyle wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 5:42 pm
Pdf27 wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 5:17 pm
The biggest red flag for me is the ringleader being demoted a single rank (to E-7) and the rest getting NJPs. That isn't one small group of rotten SNCOs, but a rotten system creating and protecting them.
Which is SOP for the USN’s personnel evaluation system since at least the Clinton Administration.
Yup. It should have been BCDs all around. Blatantly and deliberately violating the UCMJ and regulations.

Also, pour encourager les autres. As valid now as then. One wonders how many other Starlink dishes were observed on other ships when this broke.
Not just BCDs. The Navy has been doing that shit for thirty years - just shitcan the bad eggs when they pop up, but keep the same broken system that can’t discriminate between Chowdah Hills (IKE’s excellent Co) and shitbags like Etta Jones, Holly Graf and whatever douchebag was PITTSBURGH’s incoming CO until he faked being a SEAL and dead to escape the mistress he knocked up until they get the Big Chair

It’s a fundamental failure in how they screen people for leadership, and the Navy would rather just activate the splody pips on bad eggs instead of fix it.

ABRAHAM LINCOLN has an authorized Starlink dish, but there are absolutely unauthorized ones.
Rocket J Squrriel
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Re: US Navy News

Post by Rocket J Squrriel »

I have a feeling if you explained to the crews the dangers of the unauthorized Starlinks, EMCON, wartime, etc their response would be.... "What do you mean? I can't watch movies/play games whenever I want"

Oh and the PO in the USS Montgomery only getting a reduction in rank? I know she would've screamed racism and sexism if they had actually thrown the book at her.
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Pdf27
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Re: US Navy News

Post by Pdf27 »

Rocket J Squrriel wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 10:26 pmOh and the PO in the USS Montgomery only getting a reduction in rank? I know she would've screamed racism and sexism if they had actually thrown the book at her.
Given that they only NJPd the rest of the Goat Locker for conduct very nearly as bad, she'd have half a case. Easily fixed...
War is less costly than servitude. The choice is always between Verdun and Dachau. - Jean Dutourd
Belushi TD
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Re: US Navy News

Post by Belushi TD »

Pdf27 wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 5:23 pm
jemhouston wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 1:26 pm Found this on Instapudit

https://www.construction-physics.com/p/ ... dium=email

This is what Glenn Reynolds said about it:

BECAUSE WE HAVE A CORRUPT, INCOMPETENT RULING CLASS? Why Can’t The U.S. Build Ships? The Obama-era purge of the upper levels of the Pentagon removed or chased out most of the people who see their job as preparing for and fighting wars, in favor of time-servers, paper-pushers, and DEI-trainer types. The hollowing out of our defense industrial base was just part of that.
Good read on it here. The US shipbuilding industry has been on life support for 150 years now.
With the exception of about 1936 or so to 1944/5. After that it was under a DNR order.

Belushi TD
Drunknsubmrnr
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Re: US Navy News

Post by Drunknsubmrnr »

Pdf27 wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2024 6:29 am
Rocket J Squrriel wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 10:26 pmOh and the PO in the USS Montgomery only getting a reduction in rank? I know she would've screamed racism and sexism if they had actually thrown the book at her.
Given that they only NJPd the rest of the Goat Locker for conduct very nearly as bad, she'd have half a case. Easily fixed...
Just wondering…would it be possible to keel-haul people while the ship is at flank? I think that class is good for 50 knots.
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jemhouston
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Re: US Navy News

Post by jemhouston »

Drunknsubmrnr wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2024 7:05 pm
Pdf27 wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2024 6:29 am
Rocket J Squrriel wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 10:26 pmOh and the PO in the USS Montgomery only getting a reduction in rank? I know she would've screamed racism and sexism if they had actually thrown the book at her.
Given that they only NJPd the rest of the Goat Locker for conduct very nearly as bad, she'd have half a case. Easily fixed...
Just wondering…would it be possible to keel-haul people while the ship is at flank? I think that class is good for 50 knots.
How about trailing them behind a helicopter into a school of sharks?
Johnnie Lyle
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Re: US Navy News

Post by Johnnie Lyle »

Bust to E-1, assign to life doing the shittiest jobs the Navy can think of, dock their pay in perpetuity, confine them to the ship in perpetuity and assign them to their former commands as examples of what we do to fuck ups.
James1978
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Re: US Navy News

Post by James1978 »

A little more detail about the relief of the CO of the USS John S. McCain.
The US Navy sacked a destroyer captain after a persistent steering problem led to a Middle East near-miss
By Jake Epstein
September 6, 2024

The US Navy sacked the captain of a deployed warship after an unresolved steering problem resulted in a near-miss incident in the Middle East, according to a command investigation reviewed by Business Insider.

The commander of the Theodore Roosevelt Carrier Strike Group relieved Cmdr. Cameron Yaste, the commanding officer of the Arleigh Burke-class destroyer USS John S. McCain, last week over what the Navy called "a loss of confidence" in his ability to lead.

Earlier reports of Yaste's removal referenced a viral photo showing the captain holding a rifle with the scope mounted backward. But the command investigation said Yaste was relieved after the McCain lost steering during a July fuel replenishment that damaged a Navy oiler.

The August investigation into the steering loss said Yaste and his crew made mistakes that may have contributed to the incident, such as poor maintenance and failure to follow established procedures.

The investigation also showed, however, that the Navy failed to fix an ongoing steering problem that had stymied its own technical experts a month before the incident. The steering problems happened so regularly that the ship's crew seemed to eventually overlook the potential severity, the investigation indicated.

This steering issue glitched at a dangerous moment — while the McCain was hooked up to a replenishment ship to refuel.

A Navy spokesperson declined to comment on the investigation, saying that it's still ongoing. BI was unable to get comment from Yaste for this article.

A persistent steering problem
The McCain deployed from its homeport in March and arrived the following month in the Middle East, where it joined other US warships tasked with defending against Iranian-backed hostilities, including unrelenting Houthi attacks on merchant vessels.

Yaste's career had been building up to this mission. The career surface warfare officer had previously been the McCain's executive officer and had taken command in late 2023, about five months before the deployment.

According to the investigation BI obtained, the McCain experienced steering loss multiple times. These losses were caused by the uncontrolled shifting of the hydraulic power units that direct one of its two rudders.

After the destroyer lost steering in April, the McCain sent out a casualty report, or CASREP, requesting technical experts to visit the ship. These experts tried to troubleshoot the warship while it was pier-side in Bahrain in June.

The McCain's leadership requested to go to sea to address these issues properly, but the technical personnel were not funded or authorized to set sail with the destroyer. The warship left Bahrain in early July and immediately experienced the same problems.

The McCain released another CASREP over the recurring problems. Steering problems can become particularly serious if they involve the stuck or unresponsive rudder near another ship or in shallow water. The ship received remote support over the following days, but the results of those efforts were ultimately inconclusive, the investigation said.

The troubled destroyer remained at sea, and the command investigation said there was no evidence any notable troubleshooting efforts occurred after July 9.

The investigation said the McCain experienced a total of 18 problematic incidents with the steering system between May 17 and July 20, when the destroyer refueled at sea.

The command investigation attributed the recurring steering issues to improper maintenance practices by the crew, though it acknowledged no single issue could be identified as the source of the problem.

The crew brought attention to the steering issue through the multiple CASREPs it released, indicating that the matter was beyond the capabilities of the crew.

It's not clear whether the crew ever received a response from the Navy that would effectively fix the ship's problems.

Replenishment-gone-wrong
On July 20, the McCain pulled up alongside the replenishment oiler USNS Big Horn in the northern Arabian Sea and connected for a replenishment-at-sea, where the ship received fuel over a tensioned wire between two ships that are typically less than 200 feet apart.

During the refueling, the destroyer suffered a severe problem. One of the two hydraulic power units that controlled the starboard rudder began spewing oil, and engineers raced to fix it.

Minutes passed. The watch team decided to switch over to the alternate HPUs, but then the system glitched. Control was stuck with the unit "gushing" hydraulic oil, as a crewmember reported. Engineers tried refilling the HPU, but it ran out of oil and shut down. Still, the alternate HPU failed to take over.

On the bridge, where watchstanders were steering to stay alongside the oiler, a crewmember noticed an alarming sign: the starboard rudder was stuck.

In response, the commanding officer ordered an emergency breakaway, which damaged some of the equipment on the Big Horn and temporarily rendered one of its refueling rigs inoperable. No personnel were injured on either vessel.

The August command investigation found that McCain crewmembers made a variety of mistakes, including failing to follow loss-of-steering procedures or communicating sufficiently between controlling stations.

The investigation blamed Yaste for his handling of the refueling, in part because he spent 10 minutes alongside the replenishment oiler trying to fix the steering problems before breaking away. The investigation sharply criticized other senior officers as well, including the executive officer and chief engineer.

The investigation's findings also suggested that the McCain faced challenges well before the refueling. Specifically, it appears the captain and crew had been dealing with a broken ship for months, leaving them operating outside normal circumstances.

The command investigators concluded that the inability of technical experts to go to sea with the McCain prevented the steering issue from being properly resolved. It also said that on-board support at sea was the appropriate response and was warranted as early as July 3, the day after the destroyer left Bahrain.

Ten days after the July 20 near-miss incident, the McCain entered port in the United Arab Emirates for a brief fuel stop and issued another CASREP for the steering issues. Technical representatives who flew to the port to review the ship found multiple problems that needed to be fixed. The destroyer continued to experience steering issues into mid-August.

The Navy has not publicly disclosed what happened with the McCain or acknowledged the steering issues during the deployment.

The Navy released a brief statement on August 30 revealing that Yaste had been relieved of his duties as the commanding officer of the McCain "due to a loss of confidence in his ability to command the guided-missile destroyer." The sea service said that "there is no impact to the ship's mission or schedule due to the relief," without offering further details.
Nightwatch2
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Re: US Navy News

Post by Nightwatch2 »

James1978 wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 4:04 am A little more detail about the relief of the CO of the USS John S. McCain.
The US Navy sacked a destroyer captain after a persistent steering problem led to a Middle East near-miss
By Jake Epstein
September 6, 2024

The US Navy sacked the captain of a deployed warship after an unresolved steering problem resulted in a near-miss incident in the Middle East, according to a command investigation reviewed by Business Insider.

The commander of the Theodore Roosevelt Carrier Strike Group relieved Cmdr. Cameron Yaste, the commanding officer of the Arleigh Burke-class destroyer USS John S. McCain, last week over what the Navy called "a loss of confidence" in his ability to lead.

Earlier reports of Yaste's removal referenced a viral photo showing the captain holding a rifle with the scope mounted backward. But the command investigation said Yaste was relieved after the McCain lost steering during a July fuel replenishment that damaged a Navy oiler.

The August investigation into the steering loss said Yaste and his crew made mistakes that may have contributed to the incident, such as poor maintenance and failure to follow established procedures.

The investigation also showed, however, that the Navy failed to fix an ongoing steering problem that had stymied its own technical experts a month before the incident. The steering problems happened so regularly that the ship's crew seemed to eventually overlook the potential severity, the investigation indicated.

This steering issue glitched at a dangerous moment — while the McCain was hooked up to a replenishment ship to refuel.

A Navy spokesperson declined to comment on the investigation, saying that it's still ongoing. BI was unable to get comment from Yaste for this article.

A persistent steering problem
The McCain deployed from its homeport in March and arrived the following month in the Middle East, where it joined other US warships tasked with defending against Iranian-backed hostilities, including unrelenting Houthi attacks on merchant vessels.

Yaste's career had been building up to this mission. The career surface warfare officer had previously been the McCain's executive officer and had taken command in late 2023, about five months before the deployment.

According to the investigation BI obtained, the McCain experienced steering loss multiple times. These losses were caused by the uncontrolled shifting of the hydraulic power units that direct one of its two rudders.

After the destroyer lost steering in April, the McCain sent out a casualty report, or CASREP, requesting technical experts to visit the ship. These experts tried to troubleshoot the warship while it was pier-side in Bahrain in June.

The McCain's leadership requested to go to sea to address these issues properly, but the technical personnel were not funded or authorized to set sail with the destroyer. The warship left Bahrain in early July and immediately experienced the same problems.

The McCain released another CASREP over the recurring problems. Steering problems can become particularly serious if they involve the stuck or unresponsive rudder near another ship or in shallow water. The ship received remote support over the following days, but the results of those efforts were ultimately inconclusive, the investigation said.

The troubled destroyer remained at sea, and the command investigation said there was no evidence any notable troubleshooting efforts occurred after July 9.

The investigation said the McCain experienced a total of 18 problematic incidents with the steering system between May 17 and July 20, when the destroyer refueled at sea.

The command investigation attributed the recurring steering issues to improper maintenance practices by the crew, though it acknowledged no single issue could be identified as the source of the problem.

The crew brought attention to the steering issue through the multiple CASREPs it released, indicating that the matter was beyond the capabilities of the crew.

It's not clear whether the crew ever received a response from the Navy that would effectively fix the ship's problems.

Replenishment-gone-wrong
On July 20, the McCain pulled up alongside the replenishment oiler USNS Big Horn in the northern Arabian Sea and connected for a replenishment-at-sea, where the ship received fuel over a tensioned wire between two ships that are typically less than 200 feet apart.

During the refueling, the destroyer suffered a severe problem. One of the two hydraulic power units that controlled the starboard rudder began spewing oil, and engineers raced to fix it.

Minutes passed. The watch team decided to switch over to the alternate HPUs, but then the system glitched. Control was stuck with the unit "gushing" hydraulic oil, as a crewmember reported. Engineers tried refilling the HPU, but it ran out of oil and shut down. Still, the alternate HPU failed to take over.

On the bridge, where watchstanders were steering to stay alongside the oiler, a crewmember noticed an alarming sign: the starboard rudder was stuck.

In response, the commanding officer ordered an emergency breakaway, which damaged some of the equipment on the Big Horn and temporarily rendered one of its refueling rigs inoperable. No personnel were injured on either vessel.

The August command investigation found that McCain crewmembers made a variety of mistakes, including failing to follow loss-of-steering procedures or communicating sufficiently between controlling stations.

The investigation blamed Yaste for his handling of the refueling, in part because he spent 10 minutes alongside the replenishment oiler trying to fix the steering problems before breaking away. The investigation sharply criticized other senior officers as well, including the executive officer and chief engineer.

The investigation's findings also suggested that the McCain faced challenges well before the refueling. Specifically, it appears the captain and crew had been dealing with a broken ship for months, leaving them operating outside normal circumstances.

The command investigators concluded that the inability of technical experts to go to sea with the McCain prevented the steering issue from being properly resolved. It also said that on-board support at sea was the appropriate response and was warranted as early as July 3, the day after the destroyer left Bahrain.

Ten days after the July 20 near-miss incident, the McCain entered port in the United Arab Emirates for a brief fuel stop and issued another CASREP for the steering issues. Technical representatives who flew to the port to review the ship found multiple problems that needed to be fixed. The destroyer continued to experience steering issues into mid-August.

The Navy has not publicly disclosed what happened with the McCain or acknowledged the steering issues during the deployment.

The Navy released a brief statement on August 30 revealing that Yaste had been relieved of his duties as the commanding officer of the McCain "due to a loss of confidence in his ability to command the guided-missile destroyer." The sea service said that "there is no impact to the ship's mission or schedule due to the relief," without offering further details.
Thanks!! I thought there had to be something else to the story.

Ok, problems with the ship and multiple CASREP’s detailing the on going problem “beyond the capability of the crew” without outside technical support. The team is requested to go to sea with the ship but denied. EVERYONE in THAT chain of command all the way up to and including Flag Officer Commanding set this up to happen, failed to support the CO, ship and crew, and ALL need to be heaved overboard!!

The CO and crew were left in an impossible situation with a critical Safety of Navigation issue while deployed in a combat zone. What in the Hell has gone wrong with my Navy?!

I don’t fault the CARGRU Commander for relieving the CO. Staying alongside an UNREP with a steering failure is itself a recipe for disaster. The CO should have executed an Emergency Breakaway immediately. That is no place to be troubleshooting a recurring problem. Bad Things happen alongside very fast (USS Independence vs USS Denebola comes to personal recollection).

It will be interesting to see what happens next with the McCain.
Jotun
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Re: US Navy News

Post by Jotun »

Not my navy, but I am headdesking and nuclear faceplaming here. If my tin can has a steering problem that not even specialists flown in to get a grip on it can identify, let alone isolate and rectify, I send a message to my superior command authority that for reasons a, b, c, d etc. my ship is unable to safely navigate according to international law and pretty much any given safety ordinance in existence and has to remain pierside until said problem is eliminated.

Of course, that kind of spine is rare as it could entail a kink in the career path for the CO, but doing NOTHING is a hell of a lot worse.

I am still facepalming. I need some booze. Sheesh...
Poohbah
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Re: US Navy News

Post by Poohbah »

Jotun wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 7:37 pm Not my navy, but I am headdesking and nuclear faceplaming here. If my tin can has a steering problem that not even specialists flown in to get a grip on it can identify, let alone isolate and rectify, I send a message to my superior command authority that for reasons a, b, c, d etc. my ship is unable to safely navigate according to international law and pretty much any given safety ordinance in existence and has to remain pierside until said problem is eliminated.

Of course, that kind of spine is rare as it could entail a kink in the career path for the CO, but doing NOTHING is a hell of a lot worse.

I am still facepalming. I need some booze. Sheesh...
Shoving 8,000 tons of ship around with wonky steering is criminally irresponsible.
Jotun
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Re: US Navy News

Post by Jotun »

Poohbah wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 8:05 pm
Jotun wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 7:37 pm Not my navy, but I am headdesking and nuclear faceplaming here. If my tin can has a steering problem that not even specialists flown in to get a grip on it can identify, let alone isolate and rectify, I send a message to my superior command authority that for reasons a, b, c, d etc. my ship is unable to safely navigate according to international law and pretty much any given safety ordinance in existence and has to remain pierside until said problem is eliminated.

Of course, that kind of spine is rare as it could entail a kink in the career path for the CO, but doing NOTHING is a hell of a lot worse.

I am still facepalming. I need some booze. Sheesh...
Shoving 8,000 tons of ship around with wonky steering is criminally irresponsible.
That's basically what I wanted to convey, yes. My mind still boggles. I do not get this. I really don't.
kdahm
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Re: US Navy News

Post by kdahm »

And if I'm on a boat with wonky steering, I put an engineer's mate in the steering compartment 24/7 to see what's actually happening. During critical stuff like docking and unrep, there's at least two of them with a procedure to quicky cut out malfunctioning machinery. If I have to sail.

But it sounds like a large part of the problem is improper maintenance. Gundecking or just doing things wrong?
Poohbah
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Re: US Navy News

Post by Poohbah »

kdahm wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 8:44 pm And if I'm on a boat with wonky steering, I put an engineer's mate in the steering compartment 24/7 to see what's actually happening. During critical stuff like docking and unrep, there's at least two of them with a procedure to quicky cut out malfunctioning machinery. If I have to sail.

But it sounds like a large part of the problem is improper maintenance. Gundecking or just doing things wrong?
Yes.
Drunknsubmrnr
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Re: US Navy News

Post by Drunknsubmrnr »

Jotun wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 7:37 pm Not my navy, but I am headdesking and nuclear faceplaming here. If my tin can has a steering problem that not even specialists flown in to get a grip on it can identify, let alone isolate and rectify, I send a message to my superior command authority that for reasons a, b, c, d etc. my ship is unable to safely navigate according to international law and pretty much any given safety ordinance in existence and has to remain pierside until said problem is eliminated.

Of course, that kind of spine is rare as it could entail a kink in the career path for the CO, but doing NOTHING is a hell of a lot worse.

I am still facepalming. I need some booze. Sheesh...
And as somebody who has had to maneuver in tight quarters with your ships I appreciate that a lot.

It might also work better for everyone if the CO just said “I have a steering casualty and I’m going to need support. Tugs to get in/out and no RAS.” Does anyone know if he said that?
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