Re: Little bit toasty here
Posted: Tue May 26, 2026 10:27 pm
I hope there is some serious backlash to the idiotic advice to switch the utilities off <late edit, by the householder>. The network is still full of electrons/gas/water.
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I’m well aware of the issues with last mile service, having lived through my fair share of big thunderstorms, derecho and hurricanes. Spot last mile disruption restored pretty quickly is what I would expect to see. My point isn’t that those things don’t happen. My point is that you’re describing is not something we routinely de-energize the network for. Crews just reset and restore service as needed.kdahm wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2026 9:54 pmI think you significantly underestimate the Last Mile problems with maintenance across the US South. The trees grow fast and there's never enough tree trimming dollars for the local 2.4kV/4kV lines. Trimming is about every five years, ranging from three to eight or so. There's also considerable citizen disgruntlement over the process, because of the trimming just around the power lines, thinking that the trees are disfigured, complaining of tree butchers, and not wanting their beautiful trees trimmed.Johnnie Lyle wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2026 7:55 pm It’s not that serious unless your power company has seriously skimped on maintenance, is a mass murderer, or both (cough, PG&E, cough). At least in the US, local utilities have both the authority and responsibility to trim trees necessary to protect lines (though homeowners are not advised to rely on the utility companies to do so unless they like modern art), and there are serious safety perimeters around long-distance transmission lines to prevent branches or trees from falling over onto the long-distance lines. And yes, while lighting hitting lines or transformers is capable of causing problems, proper grounding of the lines reduces the risk (though having Touchdown Jesus nearby to take the hit and evolve into Terminator Jesus helps). Similarly, voltage surges are possible, but at least in the US, everyone has both power strips with surge suppressors and the infrastructure itself has also evolved to minimize the risk.
So while yes it’s possible for a thunderstorm to be inconvenient, it shouldn’t merit a massive response akin to a big snowstorm. Turning off the electricity due to a storm is very unusual, unless there’s huge infrastructure maintenance problems or the aforesaid power company is a mass murderer.
It's gotten better over the past 15-20 years, but strong thunderstorms always result in some areas with outages. Usually just a matter of a few hours, and generally between 10 and 500 homes at an sport. It's also not trees bringing the lines down that is responsible, it's more the fuses at the transformers blowing. Each one takes a guy on the ground five minutes to change, but there are a lot of them. Speaking about Houston, there are also some parts that rarely have problems and others that get multiple outages a year, and those are served by the same utility company. Lots of trees around local subdivisions look good, but cause problems.
The main high voltage distribution network isn't an issue. Trees are trimmed and cut well back from the big pylons, and kept that way. Almost all of it that I am familiar with is also set up to be driveable, so doesn't have the PG&E problem.
And again, no one turns off their main power for a thunderstorm.
I think we generally agree, but the focus drifted. I was responding to:Johnnie Lyle wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2026 11:36 pm I’m well aware of the issues with last mile service, having lived through my fair share of big thunderstorms, derecho and hurricanes. Spot last mile disruption restored pretty quickly is what I would expect to see. My point isn’t that those things don’t happen. My point is that you’re describing is not something we routinely de-energize the network for. Crews just reset and restore service as needed.
Inconvenient, absolutely.
But de-energizing the network is more about serious infrastructure problems that will make things much worse if lines are hot when power goes down. Otherwise, power companies prefer to maintain service as long as possible.
So if the warning is that people are expected to preemptively shut off power service (and gas service) prior to a thunderstorm, something really weird is going on. Either thunderstorms are very different in the UK, the infrastructure is worse, someone goofed in panic, or it’s something else not mentioned.
Yeah, we agree. I wasn’t saying that last mile problems wouldn’t occur (though utilities absolutely should do their best to minimize them), but that they should be an unlucky inconvenience, not widespread catastrophe. Shit happens, but the utility should not be in the position of lots of shit happening everywhere all at once due to infrastructure weather vulnerability.kdahm wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2026 2:27 amI think we generally agree, but the focus drifted. I was responding to:Johnnie Lyle wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2026 11:36 pm I’m well aware of the issues with last mile service, having lived through my fair share of big thunderstorms, derecho and hurricanes. Spot last mile disruption restored pretty quickly is what I would expect to see. My point isn’t that those things don’t happen. My point is that you’re describing is not something we routinely de-energize the network for. Crews just reset and restore service as needed.
Inconvenient, absolutely.
But de-energizing the network is more about serious infrastructure problems that will make things much worse if lines are hot when power goes down. Otherwise, power companies prefer to maintain service as long as possible.
So if the warning is that people are expected to preemptively shut off power service (and gas service) prior to a thunderstorm, something really weird is going on. Either thunderstorms are very different in the UK, the infrastructure is worse, someone goofed in panic, or it’s something else not mentioned.
"Thunderstorms generally don’t cause massive blackouts from lightning strikes if you’re properly grounded, "
"It’s not that serious unless your power company has seriously skimped on maintenance, is a mass murderer, or both (cough, PG&E, cough). At least in the US, local utilities have both the authority and responsibility to trim trees necessary to protect lines (though homeowners are not advised to rely on the utility companies to do so unless they like modern art),"
We call that . . . Pacific Gas and Electric.
I can think of three:kdahm wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2026 2:27 amOn the final point, there was nothing about de-energizing the network. The original bit was advice from the Met Office for the dweller to disconnect the houses from the network as an isolation measure. That's really weird, and unwarranted in almost any situation I can think of.
You assume reasonable and responsible government is in place. I see what you did there.Johnnie Lyle wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2026 2:58 pm Huh?
How vulnerable to weather is your power infrastructure? Given that the UK routinely gets lots of nasty winter weather, your infrastructure should be pretty robust against storms bringing down power lines.
Thunderstorms generally don’t cause massive blackouts from lightning strikes if you’re properly grounded, and how would it impact the gas infrastructure? You don’t have permafrost issues, so isn’t that infrastructure underground?
I'm not certain that's true, Nik....Nik_SpeakerToCats wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2026 10:29 pm Tangential: US seems to pole-mount 'local' transformers, while UK prefers neat 'block-house' brick buildings.
The pole-mounted kit is inherently more vulnerable to lightning strikes...
FWIW, back in the days of 'B&W' TV when, beyond range of 'rabbit ears' on set, you needed an 'arms-span' of 'H' atop your roof, unplugging down-lead during thunder-storms was 'common' if not routine...
It's true. Pole mounted transformers are more subject to lightning damage than ground brick buildings. That doesn't mean that they are very susceptible, just that hanging in the air like that can be an issue. It also means that a transformer can be swapped out in under an hour. It also means that the fuse protecting the transformer is very visible when it's blown, and only takes a couple of minutes to retrieve with a lineman's pole, swap the wire, and replace. Literally under two minutes. The fuse also protects the transformer against any damage from lightning strikes on the wire or poles or trees contacting the wire.Belushi TD wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2026 1:40 pmI'm not certain that's true, Nik....Nik_SpeakerToCats wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2026 10:29 pm Tangential: US seems to pole-mount 'local' transformers, while UK prefers neat 'block-house' brick buildings.
The pole-mounted kit is inherently more vulnerable to lightning strikes...
FWIW, back in the days of 'B&W' TV when, beyond range of 'rabbit ears' on set, you needed an 'arms-span' of 'H' atop your roof, unplugging down-lead during thunder-storms was 'common' if not routine...
While a transformer mounted on a pole is up in the air, and you'd think it was more vulnerable, there doesn't seem to be much of that kind of thing happening. The transformers are always mounted below the transmission lines, and unless I'm very wrong, the transmission lines act as lightning rods.
Belushi TD
Oh no. I live in California, so I generally assume government is incompetent and the electorate doesn’t give a damnCraiglxviii wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2026 9:46 amYou assume reasonable and responsible government is in place. I see what you did there.Johnnie Lyle wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2026 2:58 pm Huh?
How vulnerable to weather is your power infrastructure? Given that the UK routinely gets lots of nasty winter weather, your infrastructure should be pretty robust against storms bringing down power lines.
Thunderstorms generally don’t cause massive blackouts from lightning strikes if you’re properly grounded, and how would it impact the gas infrastructure? You don’t have permafrost issues, so isn’t that infrastructure underground?