General Discussion thread.

[James1978]

Nobody is arguing the protection differential. Leopard 2A5/6 > Marder 2 > Luchs/Fennek on the protection scale.
But I'm not sure anybody was suggesting replacing Leopard 2s with Marder 2s in the Panzer Reconnaissance Battalions. I think Bernard was more making the observation that it's probably the best protected IFV in NATO, though we've never really delved into the details of the TLWverse VBCI.

I think the FRG Panzer Reconnaissance Battalions offer a pretty good range of capabilities. Though for comparison, the Brigade Reconnaissance Platoons will have Luchs or Fenneks. And a Luchs or Fennek can probably go places a Leopard 2 can't, and make a heck of a lot less noise while doing it.

The Divisional Cavalry Squadron in a US heavy division has a less diverse toolkit on the ground, but has organic rotary assets. Again for comparison, a US tank or mech battalion's scout platoon will be rolling in M3s.

[James1978]

Random question for Jotun. Do you think the Beobachtungspanzer artillery observation vehicles converted from Jagdpanzer Kanones would still be around?

[Jotun]

Random question for Jotun. Do you think the Beobachtungspanzer artillery observation vehicles converted from Jagdpanzer Kanones would still be around?

I am pretty sure the Beobachtungspanzer would have been replaced by the Fennek:

CDC20943-FD86-408D-BA03-51D6E9F787D0.jpeg

It is comparatively cheap, faster, quieter, has more range, is more agile and its silhouette is lower than that of the Jaguar.
Artillery observers/JFST in the mountain division and airborne division would use BV-206 and Wiesel, respectively, in place of the Fennek.

[Bernard Woolley]

Have found that the frontal arc of the Marder 2 was supposed to be protected against 120-125mm projectiles. Which made it as well armoured as a contemporary tank, if not better than some. It was probably better described as a Heavy IFV, than a standard IFV like the Bradley, or Warrior.

[Jotun]

Have found that the frontal arc of the Marder 2 was supposed to be protected against 120-125mm projectiles. Which made it as well armoured as a contemporary tank, if not better than some. It was probably better described as a Heavy IFV, than a standard IFV like the Bradley, or Warrior.

Do you have a source? Not because I do not believe you, but because I am interested^^

[Johnnie Lyle]

Have found that the frontal arc of the Marder 2 was supposed to be protected against 120-125mm projectiles. Which made it as well armoured as a contemporary tank, if not better than some. It was probably better described as a Heavy IFV, than a standard IFV like the Bradley, or Warrior.

Do you have a source? Not because I do not believe you, but because I am interested^^

Same. That’s a big difference, and useful to know.

[James1978]

To be fair, there is a lot of wiggle room with the Marder 2. As I understand it, the two vehicles built in @ might better be described as testbeds from the concept definition phase than true prototypes. Full scale development was never completed. We're talking about a program cancelled in @ 1992, and even then fielding wasn't expected until late 1996. In that light, I can buy limited protection against 120-125mm threats.

[Jotun]

To be fair, there is a lot of wiggle room with the Marder 2. As I understand it, the two vehicles built in @ might better be described as testbeds from the concept definition phase than true prototypes. Full scale development was never completed. We're talking about a program cancelled in @ 1992, and even then fielding wasn't expected until late 1996. In that light, I can buy limited protection against 120-125mm threats.

Same here. The thing was massive. More than 44 tons without missiles. That‘s three tons more than the basic version of the T-72. Factor in advances in armor technology and protection against MBT makn guns is definitely possible.

Auntie Edith called again: https://www.military-today.com/apc/marder_2.htm

[Bernard Woolley]

That was the link I was looking at.

[trekchu]

Are we going to see the backlog of chapters re-poted at any point?

[Bernard Woolley]

Depends on what happens with the possible transfer of older stuff.

[trekchu]

So there is a chance the early chapters might be lost entirely?

[James1978]

Not Bernard, but . . .
None of the chapters are "lost". As with many of the fact files, reposting them all is time consuming.
If the database from tboverse.us can be restored, even if only in archive form, it is a major time save. Though if that is not possible, a number of the fact files will be lost.

[trekchu]

Fair enough!

[Jotun]

A question mostly for the Norwegians here.

Where was/is the (West) German naval ammunitions facility on the southern coast of Norway again?

[Craiglxviii]

Not Bernard, but . . .
None of the chapters are "lost". As with many of the fact files, reposting them all is time consuming.
If the database from tboverse.us can be restored, even if only in archive form, it is a major time save. Though if that is not possible, a number of the fact files will be lost.

FYI. We have the SQL download but are struggling to get any more than 10% of it (297MB/ 3GB).

MKSheppard is leading the efforts to recover data.

If anyone has any skills in this regard, please contact your Battalion HQ.

[delfin]

A question mostly for the Norwegians here.

Where was/is the (West) German naval ammunitions facility on the southern coast of Norway again?

Vestre Bolærne in the outer Oslofjord. Here's a bloke urbex'ing it before it was sealed up.

[Jotun]

A question mostly for the Norwegians here.

Where was/is the (West) German naval ammunitions facility on the southern coast of Norway again?

Vestre Bolærne in the outer Oslofjord. Here's a bloke urbex'ing it before it was sealed up.

Thank you!

[Belushi TD]

That is pretty nifty.

I assume that the photos they took were of how it was left, rather than they pulled stuff off the shelves and positioned it?

Belushi TD

[Bernard Woolley]

A few notes on the National Service Act (2005).

Age Range
The act allows for the conscription of people between the ages of 18 and 41. At the moment the MoD is choosing to only call-up those between 19 and 22, plus some people outside of those age ranges who have specialist knowledge. Voluntary enlistment for those 17 and a half to 18 and 23 to 35 will continue. Nobody under the age of 20 will be deployed outside the UK for the moment. Personnel between 17.5 and 19 would be assigned to Home Defence units. Anyone outside the 19-22 age range who volunteers for service may find that they are ordered to remain at home and not to leave their jobs. Priority will be given to National Servicemen. There is an escalator clause within the act that allows the government to extend the age range up to 55 via an Order in Council, rather than having to pass a new act.

Exemptions
There is a provision for those who wish to register as conscientious objectors and there will be Military Service Tribunals. The army, for example has resurrected the Non-Combatant Corps. Army personnel assigned to the Mobile Emergency Reserve Service will be badged as NCC, so like the Second World Was, it won't just be a corps for conscientious objectors. There are also certain jobs that will be designated as 'reserved occupations', which will disbar someone from military service, either via conscription or by volunteering. However, people in those jobs will still be allowed to volunteer for military units like the HSF and the uniformed services such as the Special Constabulary, RNLI etc.

Reciprocity Clause
This is something new for a National Service Act in the UK. In the past it was possible to avoid being called-up by being resident abroad. Now if you live in an 'Allied country' which has conscription you are given the choice of being conscripted by them, or returning to the UK. It also allows for the UK to conscript citizen of those same countries who also have conscription. Again, there is a choice of being called up in Britain or returning home to be called up there. With severe restrictions on international travel, in practise it means that people will be conscripted in their counties of residence.