Information on the USN

[James1978]

Bernard, Mark and myself did a little bit of work under the hood on the frigate issue Bernard brought up.

Consider this the first part of a broader cleanup/revision of the USN ORBAT.

Approved by Bernard
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Frigates 1989-2005

The Reagan administration intended to maintain a force of 101 frigates. This goal was actually realized for a time; by 1987 there were 115 frigates on hand. These numbers soon shrank; the 19 ships of the Bronstein, Garcia, Glover, and Brooke classes were retired in 1988-90 (most being sold overseas), leaving 46 Knox and 51 Oliver Hazard Perry class frigates on hand. These 97 ships formed the entire frigate force during the 1990s.

The frigate force contracted rapidly in the late 1990s as the Knoxes reached the end of their lives. By 2004 most were out of commission, with many having been sold abroad, and only eight survived with the Naval Reserve Force as Frigate Trainers. A further eight were held in reserve on thirty-day standby . . . in theory.

The Perry class presented its own challenges. Built to a budget with minimal growth allowance, ships of the class based in the Atlantic displayed a level of wear that was alarming and caused concern that they might not reach their life expectancy, and hull surveys did reveal significant corrosion and cracking issues especially in the Atlantic-based short-hulled ships. The long-hull Perry class ships received a SLEP similar to the Australian FFG Upgrade - adding SM-2MR capability, an 8-cell self-defense length Mk.41 VLS for ESSM forward of the Mark 13 launcher, and an upgraded sonar. In common with their Australian cousins, the program went over budget. The short-hull members of the class received a mini-SLEP in an effort to get as many ships as possible to the 30-year mark. Many of the short-hulls serve in the Naval Reserve Force. Following the Laboon Incident, two short-hulls, (FFG-9 and FFG-20) were officially tasked as Surface Warfare Trainers - unofficially they were navigation and ship handling trainers. Both ships retain full combat capability.

In 1999, the first of the new McCloy (FFG-62) class Aegis air warfare frigates entered service. The McCloy class was born out of what survived of the NATO Frigate Replacement for 90s, aka NFR-90. The class are sometimes derided as mini-destroyers inside the Navy, with other navies raising an eyebrow at their classification as “frigates”. Indeed their Taiwanese Kee Lung class cousins are rated as destroyers. The Navy defended their size as seeking to avoid the artificial limitations of the Perry class that limited their growth potential, and pointing to the usefulness of the greater growth potential built into the Spruance class destroyers.

While fine ships, the McCloy class were expensive and not suited to replace the masses of Knoxes as they left service from the late 1990s, or the short-hull Perrys as they began to age out or wear out. A program dubbed FFX to replace the Knoxes and Perrys started near the end of the Bush administration, but soon ran afoul of the budget restrictions of the late 1990s. In 1999, Congress saw how frigate numbers were about to crash, and intervened and directed the Navy to accelerate FFX and pick a design which was proven, mature, low risk and (if possible) in service. The Navy selected a slightly modified version of the Australian ANZAC class and quickly began awarding contracts to building yards. The first of the new John E. Kilmer (FF-1099) class frigates commissioned in December 2004.

The 70 frigates in service in 2005 were the eight FFT, 51 FFG-7, 10 FFG-62, and one FF-1099. Some FFG-7 class ships were manned by the NRF.

Light Frigates

Somewhat envious of the Royal Navy’s Type 24/25 combination, and seeking to ramp up numbers faster than the Kilmer class frigates could be built, the Navy embarked on a program to build an affordable modular corvette based on a common hull. In a remarkable display of ability and restraint on the part of the NAVSEA, the Navy mostly got what it asked for and what Congress was willing to pay for. Since the US Navy did not use the classification of corvette, the ships were officially designated as “Frigate, Light”.

The ships are being built in two variants, the surface warfare focused John H. Balch (FFL-1) class, and the littoral ASW focused David E. Hayden (FFL-7) class. Two ships of the Balch class and one of the Hayden class had been commissioned by April 2005.

[Matt Wiser]

Question: Where are the ten McCloy-class ships that are now active? There's the list of those building or contracts awarded, but...

[James1978]

Question: Where are the ten McCloy-class ships that are now active? There's the list of those building or contracts awarded, but...

Three have been mentioned by name in the story:
McCloy (FFG-62) - Atlantic, was part of Wisconsin SAG when mentioned.
Bronstein (FFG-67) - Atlantic, convoy escort
O’Callahan (FFG-71) - Atlantic, convoy escort

In background discussions, we figured the class was mostly used to provide area air defense of convoys and UNREP groups, freeing up Burkes for battle force taskings.

[Matt Wiser]

One does wonder how soon SECNAV will start naming ships for Navy and Marine personnel killed in the war... If one gets a Navy Cross or MOH, there's going to be a ship named for that individual.

One who was supposed to get one of OTL's Constellation-class Frigates (now canceled) was CDR Everett Alvarez (USN, ret.), the longest-held POW in Hanoi (5 Aug 64 to 11 Feb 73). Hopefully, in TLW, his turn comes sooner.

[James1978]

One does wonder how soon SECNAV will start naming ships for Navy and Marine personnel killed in the war... If one gets a Navy Cross or MOH, there's going to be a ship named for that individual.

For ships awarded but not yet named, I'd guess that could happen relatively soon.

One who was supposed to get one of OTL's Constellation-class Frigates (now canceled) was CDR Everett Alvarez (USN, ret.), the longest-held POW in Hanoi (5 Aug 64 to 11 Feb 73). Hopefully, in TLW, his turn comes sooner.

For right now, I'm given myself the following rules for naming the new ships:
* Medal of Honor Recipient from WW1 onward.#
* Never had a previous ship named for them (longer list than you might think)
* Deceased as of TLWverse 2004. There are enough good names that never got used without using people still living. Jim Stockdale is a special case - DDG-106 was named before his death in @ (and in TLWverse).


# The citations from earlier are just too damn vague compared to later years - basically "he was there, was brave, and did good".

[Matt Wiser]

There are also Navy Cross recipients who would qualify: Two OTL Burke-class DDGs were named for former POWs in Hanoi: William P. Lawrence and Jeremiah Denton. While in WW II, three Sumner or Gearing class ships were named for the three torpedo squadron skippers at Midway (all posthumous Navy Cross recipients). If a DDG is not suitable for someone like CDR Alvarez, then one of the "light" frigates should be.

[James1978]

RE: Ship Naming

1) Medal of Honor trumps Navy Cross and other awards every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
If we were talking about a WW2 sized fleet, then Navy Cross recipients make fine ship names. but we're not talking about a WW2 sized fleet.

2) And I come back to another of my self-imposed rules: Deceased as of TLWverse 2004.

The names you mentioned are fine names, and worthy of having a ship named after them. But as of 31 December 2004, they are all still alive.
* Everett Alvarez (Silver Star) - Still alive in @2026! [And not the only living person that Carlos Del Toro named a ship after on his way out the door.]
* Jeremiah Denton (Navy Cross) - Died 2014. DDG-129 name announced 2019.
* William P. Lawrence (Silver Star) - Died 2 December 2005. DDG-110 LD 2008.

Which brings us back to #1. If we're going to use the names of the living, then we've still got the following in TLWverse 2005:
* 12 living USN/USMC Medal of Honor recipients from WW2, and I'm still going through all the Marine recipients. And plenty who died late in the war never got a ship named after them in @.
* 3 living USN Medal of Honor recipient from the Korean War. I haven't even started on the Marines.
* 6 living USN Medal of Honor recipients from the Vietnam War. I haven't even started on the Marines.

The best way I can sum it up is to point to Barry K. Atkins. Atkins was the skipper of the USS Melvin (DD-680) at Surigao Strait, where Melvin was credited with sinking Fusō - only USN destroyer to sink an enemy battleship. Atkins got a Navy Cross for the action. Melvin's crew tried to get a ship named after Atkins, with the official response being "as one prominent and highly decorated officer among many, he is eligible for the honor but not guaranteed it."

3) It is not unprecedented for a ship under construction to have it's name changed prior to commissioning. So ships under construction during the war in TLWverse could be renamed to honor MoH or Navy cross recipients, or ships lost in combat.