1975 World Populations
1.) China: 1,254,235,854
2.) India: 796,347,993
3.) Soviet Union: 424,547,076
4.) USA: 389,264,475
5.) Indonesia: 296,110,468
6.) Japan: 284,383,476
7.) Germany: 210,365,097
8.) Brazil: 209,296,555
9.) Mexico: 169,930,760
10.) Britain: 162,954,887*
11.) France: 158,012,967
12.) Austria-Hungary: 140,921,356
13.) Turkey: 139,993,884
14.) Italy: 126,458,093
15.) Nigeria: 123,345,981
16.) Spain: 118,992,645
17.) Korea: 103,225,058
18.) Canada: 95,529,875
19.) Persia: 92,086,118
20.) Poland: 90,243,652
21.) Egypt: 88,891,167
22.) Thailand: 85,235,944
23.) Ethiopia: 81,350,052
24.) Argentina: 78,962,557
25.) Philippines: 72,369,220
26.) Congo: 65,333,016
27.) Peru: 61,351,030
28.) Romania: 58,718,213
29.) Greece: 56,154,256
30.) Colombia: 52,065,780
31.) South Vietnam: 46,528,531
32.) Mongolia: 43,980,264
33.) North Vietnam: 42,096,112
34.) South Africa: 41,832,254
35.) Australia: 38,465,329
36.) Yugoslavia: 37,346,891
37.) Netherlands: 37,248,749
38.) Morocco: 34,596,298
39.) Venezuela: 31,472,073
40.) Syria: 29,879,194
41.) Chile: 28,965,012
42.) Sweden: 28,527,398
43.) Belgium: 27,652,023
44.) Tanganyika: 26,056,328
45.) Malaya: 25,969,120
46.) French Algeria: 25,032,025
47.) West Indies: 24,693,987
48.) Rhodesia: 23,576,091
49.) Arabia: 23,016,590
50.) Iraq: 22,124,925
51.) Taiwan: 20,017,259
52.) Ceylon: 19,883,136
53.) Bulgaria: 19,260,005
54.) Portugal: 19,196,444
55.) Kenya: 18,729,850
56.) Portuguese East Africa/Mozambique: 17,526,777 (7)
57.) Afghanistan: 17,032,045
58.) Yemen: 16,283,162
59.) Switzerland: 16,097,123
60.) New Avalon: 16,082,250
61.) Sudan: 15,895,139
62.) Uganda: 15,625,297
63.) Bolivia: 15,421,084
64.) Ashante Confederation: 14,568,093
65.) Ecuador: 13,987,018
66.) GDR: 13,523,465
67.) Norway: 13,159,204
68.) Portuguese West Africa/Angola: 12,694,818 (7)
69.) Mali Federation: 12,599,025
70.) Sinkiang: 12,485,333
71.) Finland: 12,047,012
72.) Tunisia: 11,972,088
73.) Cambodia: 11,505,984
74.) Cameroon: 10,892,055
75.) Madagascar: 10,243,996
76.) Dominican Republic: 10,195,667
77.) Senegambia: 9,987,004
78.) Paraguay: 9,620,035
79.) Aranguay: 9,218,163
80.) Guatemala: 9,075,398
81.) Israel: 8,965,239
82.) Rwanda-Burundi: 8,900,111
83.) Denmark: 8,897,993
84.) Chad: 8,596,397
85.) Libya: 8,440,552
86.) Haiti: 7,268,390
87.) Niger: 7,039,249
88.) Guinea: 6,578,903
89.) Uruguay: 6,510,542
90.) New Zealand: 6,487,996
91.) Prydain: 6,399,025
92.) Somalia: 6,244,387
93.) El Salvador: 5,861,039
94.) Lebanon: 5,611,768
95.) Moldavian PDR: 5,604,975
96.) Honduras: 5,497,662
97.) Porto Rico: 5,329,876 (10)
98.) Tibet: 5,231,084
99.) Costa Rica: 5,047,600
100.) Nicaragua: 4,929,561
101.) North Laos: 4,812,066
102.) Albania: 4,804,965
103.) Hong Kong: 4,752,187 (3)
104.) Yucatan: 4,431,255
105.) Ruritania: 4,162,295
106.) Newfoundland: 4,025,096
107.) Galician PDR: 4,013,085
108.) Equatoria: 3,893,260
109.) Sierra Leone: 3,794,258
110.) Liberia: 3,692,517 (11)
111.) South Laos: 3,429,654
112.) Singapore: 3,254,179 (1)
113.) Ruthenian PDR: 3,198,569
114.) Togoland: 3,067,912
115.) Jordan: 2,956,488
116.) Panama: 2,897,993 (11)
117.) Los Altos: 2,785,909
118.) Ubangi-Shari: 2,551,076
119.) Dahomey: 2,360,880
120.) Orungu: 2,019,534
121.) Azania: 1,892,477
122.) British South Pacific Federation: 1,875,249 (3)
123.) Bensalem: 1,754,269
124.) Luxembourg: 1,624,332
125.) Mauritius: 1,532,444
126.) Iceland: 1,387,243
127.) Mauritania: 1,256,579
128.) Zangaro: 1,205,038
129.) Burunda: 1,184,559
130.) Oman: 1,162,255
131.) Mandale: 1,034,059
132.) Cyprus: 1,025,983 (2)
133.) Zimbali: 982,491
134.) Reunion: 819,557 (5)
135.) Kuwait: 790,448 (3)
136.) Zamunda: 723,564
137.) Malta: 679,480 (1)
138.) Dutch Guiana (6)
139.) Zanzibar: 625,887 (3)
140.) British Sarawak: 624,895
141.) Trucial States: 612,375 (3)
142.) Bangalla: 548,216
143.) Portuguese Cape Verde Islands: 512,334 (7)
144.) British North Borneo: 468,249 (3)
145.) Spanish Guinea: 425,397 (8)
146.) Dutch West Indies: 378,564 (6)
147.) Bahrain: 329,456 (3)
148.) French Somaliland: 325,611 (5)
149.) Dutch East Indies: 287,624 (6)
150.) British Brunei: 256,978 (3)
151.) Channel Islands: 236,418 (4)
152.) Maldives: 225,737 (3)
153.) French Polynesia: 219,525 (5)
154.) Swedish Guiana: 186,392 (9)
155.) Isle of Man: 179,267 (4)
156.) Guam: 175,255 (10)
157.) United States Pacific Islands: 162,974 (10)
158.) West Papua: 142,078
159.) Spanish West Indies: 125,764 (8)
160.) Seychelles: 98,643 (3)
161.) French Guiana: 93,226 (5)
162.) Swedish West Indies: 87,529 (9)
163.) Bermuda: 84,562 (3)
164.) Portuguese Sao Tome and Principe 82,519 (7)
165.) Greenland (12)
166.) Spanish Sahara: 72,330 (8)
167.) Gibraltar: 64,952 (1)
168.) American Samoa: 56,497 (10)
169.) Northern Mariana Islands: 42,875
170.) Andorra: 41,584
171.) Monaco: 38,792
172.) Liechtenstein: 36,254
173.) San Marino: 27,586
174.) Falkland Islands: 25,873 (3)
175.) Poictesme: 21,511
176.) Graustark: 18,337
177.) Grand Fenwick: 12,594
178.) Easter Island: 9006 (3)
179.) Saint Helena: 8247 (3)
180.) Galápagos Islands: 5649 (3)
181.) Vatican City: 2450
182.) Ascension: 1254 (3)
183.) Tristan da Cunha: 562 (3)
184.) Pitcairn Island: 284 (3)
(1) British possessions formally incorporated into the United Kingdom
(2) British possession to be fully incorporated as (1) above in 1976
(3) British Crown Colony or protectorate
(4) British Crown Dependency
(5) French colony
(6) Dutch colony
(7) Portuguese colony
(8) Spanish colony
(9) Swedish colony
(10) US Overseas Territories
(11) US Associate Republics
(12) Danish colony
- Note that I've gone a bit overboard, and thus will need to add some bits and pieces to the GDPs to bring them in line with the above list in the morning after some well earned kip
- The Benelux states are considered as separate entities for population and a single entity for economics, as they have yet to progress that far down the path of effective political unification. I'm going to edit the GDPs to have them in as separate entities as well as the collective numbers to align that data together
- Some GDPs will be ridiculously small
- I do hope I haven't missed a country somewhere
Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
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Simon Darkshade
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Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Last edited by Simon Darkshade on Sat Nov 01, 2025 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Simon Darkshade
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Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
The GDP and population data is now fully aligned. The difference in number of countries (185 for Population and 182 for GDP) comes down to the Benelux trio being lumped together in an economic sense.
Broadly speaking, it makes sense that the bottom 40 countries/entities in the GDP rankings are largely islands, microstates, or fairly desolate locations. Incidentally, if the British Crown were a country on the list, they would rank somewhere around the DEI/Moluccas.
Coming up next in the little end of year (or close to it) overview will be some global production stats and maybe some other goodies, inspired by the old Macdonald Countries series of factbooks from the 1970s.
Broadly speaking, it makes sense that the bottom 40 countries/entities in the GDP rankings are largely islands, microstates, or fairly desolate locations. Incidentally, if the British Crown were a country on the list, they would rank somewhere around the DEI/Moluccas.
Coming up next in the little end of year (or close to it) overview will be some global production stats and maybe some other goodies, inspired by the old Macdonald Countries series of factbooks from the 1970s.
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Simon Darkshade
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Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
December 1975 Sneak Preview
December 1: Detective Inspector Endeavour Morse of the Oxford City Police is hailed for exceptional valour in the rescue of a kidnapped girl and the apprehension of a would-be ‘serial killer’, leading to serious discussion of his nomination for what would be an unprecedented second George Cross. Detective Chief Inspector George Gently, of the Norfolk Constabulary and peripherally involved in the case, is heard to remark to his counterpart DCI Fred Thursday that these may be some of the last years of serial killers in England, given advances in technology and policing methods.
December 2: Establishment of the 57th US Marine Motorcycle Regiment attached to Fleet Marine Forces Atlantic, along with the conventional 54th, 56th, 58th and 60th Marines, the 53rd, 55th and 59th Marine artillery regiments and the first of a number of Marine Light Armored Reconnaissance Battalions. Consideration is being given to establishment of a new US Marine formation suitable for operations with the proposed new Rapid Deployment Joint Task Force, incorporating the Army’s Strategic Army Corps and the USAF’s Composite Air Strike Force and Air Battle Force. The ‘Motorcycle Marines’ are one of the specialised combat units being introduced alongside the U.S. Army’s forces suited for desert warfare operations in the Middle East, Africa and India.
December 3: Philippines Army General Miguel de la Cruz announces on national television and radio that President Salvador Garcia, having felt quite unwell for some time with no clear symptoms before being diagnosed with acute fastidit laborem, is to travel to the United States for urgent medical care to be delivered at his heavily guarded Florida mansion, and that this illness may sadly persist for some time. A large scale Army exercise takes place in Manila as the address is being delivered, and coincidentally, a number of transport aircraft loaded with supporters and family members of the erstwhile President take off for Hawaii, no doubt bound to join their poorly leader and provide plentiful moral support and goodwill for his sudden illness.
December 5: A meeting between KGB officers and would-be Irish revolutionaries in Colombia agrees upon the provision of arms, training and funds to support any such efforts to hamper and disrupt the British Empire in something of a shift of Soviet policy, which had previously characterised the niche underground movements as entirely too reactionary for potential employment. The change can be partly ascribed to a new, younger and more radical generation of would-be revolutionists, somewhat enamoured with the exploits of terrorist groups in Germany, France, Italy, Japan and the Middle East and less subject to the precepts of druidic authority.
December 6: In the Australian federal election, the ALP is returned to power with a clear majority of 125-98 over the Liberal-Country Coalition. with the triumph being ascribed in large part to the great personal popularity of Prime Minister Bob Hawke. The second term agenda of the Hawke Labour Government is set to focus on extension of national infrastructure, encouragement of economic growth, establishment of a new national health care system and modernisation of the Australian Defence Forces.
December 7: Reverend Elvis Presley captures the infamous fugitive fast food thief known as The Hamburglar in a stakeout in Illinois, surprising the burger bandit as he attempted to sneak into a closed McDonalds restaurant to steal, well, hamburgers. Upon unmasking the miscreant and seeing his withered and gaunt visage, the good Reverend is moved by pity at his plight, and conveys him back to his residence in Memphis in his jet biplane to give the wretch a taste of proper provender from his extensive kitchens. The one-time criminal is so impressed that he pledges to abandon his life of wrongdoing and offers to join Presley's posse.
December 11: Jane's Fighting Ships features an extensive editorial on USN nomenclature, with the development of new DEGs of the Oliver Hazard Perry class not only blurring the line with destroyers, but representing such a clear advance on previous destroyer escorts that perhaps the foreign terminology of 'frigates' should be employed; the complicating factor of that terms being used for the DLGs, which are distinct from destroyers, is seen as not insurmountable. Other changing aspects, such as the growing size of carrier air wings for the next generation of ships, play their role in the changes in the type of ships that the USN and other Western fleets are fielding; in particular, the advent of the new F/A-18, now in testing, promises to see an increase in the size and capability of American carrier wings that is being carefully observed by Britain and France.
December 15: Announcement of the birth of a son, Karl Franz, to German Crown Prince Siegfried and his wife Princess Viktoria, and grandson to the reigning Kaiser Wilhelm V, at the Imperial Castle in Altendorf. Women's magazines and news media across the world are momentarily rapt with the prospect of the bouncing new royal baby boy, with noted gossip rag Der Spiegel leading the way to secure official pictures. Some of their frenzy almost seems justified, as the infant Karl Franz will one day sit on the Imperial throne…or so the Germans would have us believe.
December 16: A new series of contracts for construction of the first stage of modules for the Commonwealth starship project are announced, with the life support module awarded to a group made up of Armstrong-Whitworth, de Havilland, GKN, Imperial Computing Machines and British Thomson Houston, and the docking bay module to an Anglo-Irish joint conglomerate of Harland & Wolff, Shorts, Anglo-Saxon Petroleum, British Imperial Electric and Hibernia Steel and Engineering.
December 20: The British Army selects a new design of power armour for its heavy infantry units, along with what is described as a revolutionary new series of flying reconnaissance ‘eyebot’ drone (designated Eyebot Duraframe Subject E) and a range of heavy weapons suitable for both infantry, vehicle and war machine mountings. A concurrent review of general individual equipment recommends the fielding of fireproof Kermel underwear (known to soldiers as ‘vindaloos’), new ballistic weave combat battle dress uniform, a tactical gambeson and Sablon flak jacket and varying sets of body armour; and confirms the acquisition of the FN Minimi in the section automatic rifle role, with a number of weapons to be procured in the new experimental .308” round, to be known as 7.62 x 45mm in the bizarre metric measurements employed on the Continent.
December 1: Detective Inspector Endeavour Morse of the Oxford City Police is hailed for exceptional valour in the rescue of a kidnapped girl and the apprehension of a would-be ‘serial killer’, leading to serious discussion of his nomination for what would be an unprecedented second George Cross. Detective Chief Inspector George Gently, of the Norfolk Constabulary and peripherally involved in the case, is heard to remark to his counterpart DCI Fred Thursday that these may be some of the last years of serial killers in England, given advances in technology and policing methods.
December 2: Establishment of the 57th US Marine Motorcycle Regiment attached to Fleet Marine Forces Atlantic, along with the conventional 54th, 56th, 58th and 60th Marines, the 53rd, 55th and 59th Marine artillery regiments and the first of a number of Marine Light Armored Reconnaissance Battalions. Consideration is being given to establishment of a new US Marine formation suitable for operations with the proposed new Rapid Deployment Joint Task Force, incorporating the Army’s Strategic Army Corps and the USAF’s Composite Air Strike Force and Air Battle Force. The ‘Motorcycle Marines’ are one of the specialised combat units being introduced alongside the U.S. Army’s forces suited for desert warfare operations in the Middle East, Africa and India.
December 3: Philippines Army General Miguel de la Cruz announces on national television and radio that President Salvador Garcia, having felt quite unwell for some time with no clear symptoms before being diagnosed with acute fastidit laborem, is to travel to the United States for urgent medical care to be delivered at his heavily guarded Florida mansion, and that this illness may sadly persist for some time. A large scale Army exercise takes place in Manila as the address is being delivered, and coincidentally, a number of transport aircraft loaded with supporters and family members of the erstwhile President take off for Hawaii, no doubt bound to join their poorly leader and provide plentiful moral support and goodwill for his sudden illness.
December 5: A meeting between KGB officers and would-be Irish revolutionaries in Colombia agrees upon the provision of arms, training and funds to support any such efforts to hamper and disrupt the British Empire in something of a shift of Soviet policy, which had previously characterised the niche underground movements as entirely too reactionary for potential employment. The change can be partly ascribed to a new, younger and more radical generation of would-be revolutionists, somewhat enamoured with the exploits of terrorist groups in Germany, France, Italy, Japan and the Middle East and less subject to the precepts of druidic authority.
December 6: In the Australian federal election, the ALP is returned to power with a clear majority of 125-98 over the Liberal-Country Coalition. with the triumph being ascribed in large part to the great personal popularity of Prime Minister Bob Hawke. The second term agenda of the Hawke Labour Government is set to focus on extension of national infrastructure, encouragement of economic growth, establishment of a new national health care system and modernisation of the Australian Defence Forces.
December 7: Reverend Elvis Presley captures the infamous fugitive fast food thief known as The Hamburglar in a stakeout in Illinois, surprising the burger bandit as he attempted to sneak into a closed McDonalds restaurant to steal, well, hamburgers. Upon unmasking the miscreant and seeing his withered and gaunt visage, the good Reverend is moved by pity at his plight, and conveys him back to his residence in Memphis in his jet biplane to give the wretch a taste of proper provender from his extensive kitchens. The one-time criminal is so impressed that he pledges to abandon his life of wrongdoing and offers to join Presley's posse.
December 11: Jane's Fighting Ships features an extensive editorial on USN nomenclature, with the development of new DEGs of the Oliver Hazard Perry class not only blurring the line with destroyers, but representing such a clear advance on previous destroyer escorts that perhaps the foreign terminology of 'frigates' should be employed; the complicating factor of that terms being used for the DLGs, which are distinct from destroyers, is seen as not insurmountable. Other changing aspects, such as the growing size of carrier air wings for the next generation of ships, play their role in the changes in the type of ships that the USN and other Western fleets are fielding; in particular, the advent of the new F/A-18, now in testing, promises to see an increase in the size and capability of American carrier wings that is being carefully observed by Britain and France.
December 15: Announcement of the birth of a son, Karl Franz, to German Crown Prince Siegfried and his wife Princess Viktoria, and grandson to the reigning Kaiser Wilhelm V, at the Imperial Castle in Altendorf. Women's magazines and news media across the world are momentarily rapt with the prospect of the bouncing new royal baby boy, with noted gossip rag Der Spiegel leading the way to secure official pictures. Some of their frenzy almost seems justified, as the infant Karl Franz will one day sit on the Imperial throne…or so the Germans would have us believe.
December 16: A new series of contracts for construction of the first stage of modules for the Commonwealth starship project are announced, with the life support module awarded to a group made up of Armstrong-Whitworth, de Havilland, GKN, Imperial Computing Machines and British Thomson Houston, and the docking bay module to an Anglo-Irish joint conglomerate of Harland & Wolff, Shorts, Anglo-Saxon Petroleum, British Imperial Electric and Hibernia Steel and Engineering.
December 20: The British Army selects a new design of power armour for its heavy infantry units, along with what is described as a revolutionary new series of flying reconnaissance ‘eyebot’ drone (designated Eyebot Duraframe Subject E) and a range of heavy weapons suitable for both infantry, vehicle and war machine mountings. A concurrent review of general individual equipment recommends the fielding of fireproof Kermel underwear (known to soldiers as ‘vindaloos’), new ballistic weave combat battle dress uniform, a tactical gambeson and Sablon flak jacket and varying sets of body armour; and confirms the acquisition of the FN Minimi in the section automatic rifle role, with a number of weapons to be procured in the new experimental .308” round, to be known as 7.62 x 45mm in the bizarre metric measurements employed on the Continent.
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Simon Darkshade
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- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:55 am
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
1975 Nuclear Arsenals
USA: 82,794
USSR: 52,635
Britain: 18,586
France: 9979
China: 5237
Canada: 1692
Italy: 615
Sweden: 320
India: 300
Spain: 296
Australia: 287
Israel: 236
South Africa: 164
Greece: 125
Turkey: 102
Brazil: 95
Switzerland: 90
Netherlands: 87
Indonesia: 84
Argentina: 69
Belgium: 60
Germany 52
Austria-Hungary 48
Yugoslavia: 44
New Avalon: 36
Japan: 32
Korea: 28
Chile: 25
New Zealand: 25
Rhodesia: 24
Mexico: 20
Norway: 18
Taiwan: 10
Bulgaria: 6
Vatican: 2
Albania: 1
USA: 82,794
USSR: 52,635
Britain: 18,586
France: 9979
China: 5237
Canada: 1692
Italy: 615
Sweden: 320
India: 300
Spain: 296
Australia: 287
Israel: 236
South Africa: 164
Greece: 125
Turkey: 102
Brazil: 95
Switzerland: 90
Netherlands: 87
Indonesia: 84
Argentina: 69
Belgium: 60
Germany 52
Austria-Hungary 48
Yugoslavia: 44
New Avalon: 36
Japan: 32
Korea: 28
Chile: 25
New Zealand: 25
Rhodesia: 24
Mexico: 20
Norway: 18
Taiwan: 10
Bulgaria: 6
Vatican: 2
Albania: 1
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Bernard Woolley
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- Location: Earth
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Saw a bit of an episode of Magnum: PI today and it gave me an idea for a future entry for you. 
"Fed up with having to deal with the constant demands and inteference of private investigator Jim Rockford, Lt. Dennis Becker of the LAPD transfers to the HPD, changing his surname to Nolan. Almost immediately he finds himself having to deal with the near constant demands and inteference of private investigator Thomas Magnum. Deciding that 'better the devil you know', he will eventually transfer back to the LAPD."
On a more serious note, what's the Vatican's delivery system? The Holy ICBM of Antioch?
"Fed up with having to deal with the constant demands and inteference of private investigator Jim Rockford, Lt. Dennis Becker of the LAPD transfers to the HPD, changing his surname to Nolan. Almost immediately he finds himself having to deal with the near constant demands and inteference of private investigator Thomas Magnum. Deciding that 'better the devil you know', he will eventually transfer back to the LAPD."
On a more serious note, what's the Vatican's delivery system? The Holy ICBM of Antioch?
“Frankly, I had enjoyed the war… and why do people want peace if the war is so much fun?” - Lieutenant General Sir Adrian Carton de Wiart
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jemhouston
- Posts: 5830
- Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:38 am
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Fun fact, Tom Selleck was in two episodes of The Rockford Files as PI Lance White.Bernard Woolley wrote: ↑Fri Nov 07, 2025 4:30 pm Saw a bit of an episode of Magnum: PI today and it gave me an idea for a future entry for you.
"Fed up with having to deal with the constant demands and inteference of private investigator Jim Rockford, Lt. Dennis Becker of the LAPD transfers to the HPD, changing his surname to Nolan. Almost immediately he finds himself having to deal with the near constant demands and inteference of private investigator Thomas Magnum. Deciding that 'better the devil you know', he will eventually transfer back to the LAPD."
On a more serious note, what's the Vatican's delivery system? The Holy ICBM of Antioch?
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Simon Darkshade
- Posts: 1671
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:55 am
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
The Vatican delivery system is either one of their Phantoms from the Papal Flight or a specially configured tower for launching what is effectively a nuclear AAM.
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Bernard Woolley
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Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Good they were too!jemhouston wrote: ↑Fri Nov 07, 2025 6:03 pm Fun fact, Tom Selleck was in two episodes of The Rockford Files as PI Lance White.
“Frankly, I had enjoyed the war… and why do people want peace if the war is so much fun?” - Lieutenant General Sir Adrian Carton de Wiart
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Simon Darkshade
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- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:55 am
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
In all my years, I’ve never seen an episode of Magnum or any other Tom Selleck television programmes.
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Bernard Woolley
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Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Dear. God.Simon Darkshade wrote: ↑Fri Nov 07, 2025 7:51 pm In all my years, I’ve never seen an episode of Magnum or any other Tom Selleck television programmes.
“Frankly, I had enjoyed the war… and why do people want peace if the war is so much fun?” - Lieutenant General Sir Adrian Carton de Wiart
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Simon Darkshade
- Posts: 1671
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:55 am
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
That is a function of Australian television programming in the 80s and 90s, when I watched it as a child and youth. In the bulk of the next two decades, there were only two channels when I lived in the bush. In the 80s and 90s, and particularly the 80s, we seemed to get more British content than American on balance; there is some bleed through of this into Dark Earth in terms of subconscious influence.
These days, the only series I watch on the television are Endeavour, George Gently, Foyle’s War, Call the Midwife, Doc Martin and occasionally Judge John Deed/Dredd. On my computer, I have a wider range of options, but not enough hours in the day and week to make much of a dent in my “Shows to Watch” list.
The list of television programmes that I haven’t seen is pretty lengthy.
These days, the only series I watch on the television are Endeavour, George Gently, Foyle’s War, Call the Midwife, Doc Martin and occasionally Judge John Deed/Dredd. On my computer, I have a wider range of options, but not enough hours in the day and week to make much of a dent in my “Shows to Watch” list.
The list of television programmes that I haven’t seen is pretty lengthy.
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Simon Darkshade
- Posts: 1671
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:55 am
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
December 1975
December 1: Detective Inspector Endeavour Morse of the Oxford City Police is hailed for exceptional valour in the rescue of a kidnapped girl and the apprehension of a would-be ‘serial killer’, leading to serious discussion of his nomination for what would be an unprecedented second George Cross. Detective Chief Inspector George Gently, of the Norfolk Constabulary and peripherally involved in the case, is heard to remark to his counterpart DCI Fred Thursday that these may be some of the last years of serial killers in England, given advances in technology and policing methods.
December 2: Establishment of the 57th US Marine Motorcycle Regiment attached to Fleet Marine Forces Atlantic, along with the conventional 54th, 56th, 58th and 60th Marines, the 53rd, 55th and 59th Marine artillery regiments and the first of a number of Marine Light Armored Reconnaissance Battalions. Consideration is being given to establishment of a new US Marine formation suitable for operations with the proposed new Rapid Deployment Joint Task Force, incorporating the Army’s Strategic Army Corps and the USAF’s Composite Air Strike Force and Air Battle Force. The ‘Motorcycle Marines’ are one of the specialised combat units being introduced alongside the U.S. Army’s forces suited for desert warfare operations in the Middle East, Africa and India.
December 3: Philippines Army General Miguel de la Cruz announces on national television and radio that President Salvador Garcia, having felt quite unwell for some time with no clear symptoms before being diagnosed with acute fastidit laborem, is to travel to the United States for urgent medical care to be delivered at his heavily guarded Florida mansion, and that this illness may sadly persist for some time. A large scale Army exercise takes place in Manila as the address is being delivered, and coincidentally, a number of transport aircraft loaded with supporters and family members of the erstwhile President take off for Hawaii, no doubt bound to join their poorly leader and provide plentiful moral support and goodwill for his sudden illness.
December 4: The annual conference of the International Organisation of Vine and Wine in Paris is sent into something of an uproar over allegations that the International Wine Contest in Brussels earlier in the year had been fixed, allegedly after a shock result of New World wines beating French vintages. After several hours of extremely heated argument and 27 challenges to engage in duels, a resolution is reached whereby a blind testing competition will be held in Paris in the spring to decide the merits of the wines in question, under the auspices of a firm of Swiss accounting gnomes and German administrators to avoid any perception of potential bias.
December 5: A meeting between KGB officers and would-be Irish revolutionaries in Colombia agrees upon the provision of arms, training and funds to support any such efforts to hamper and disrupt the British Empire in something of a shift of Soviet policy, which had previously characterised the niche underground movements as entirely too reactionary for potential employment. The change can be partly ascribed to a new, younger and more radical generation of would-be revolutionists, somewhat enamoured with the exploits of terrorist groups in Germany, France, Italy, Japan and the Middle East and less subject to the precepts of druidic authority.
December 6: In the Australian federal election, the ALP is returned to power with a clear majority of 125-98 over the Liberal-Country Coalition. with the triumph being ascribed in large part to the great personal popularity of Prime Minister Bob Hawke. The second term agenda of the Hawke Labour Government is set to focus on extension of national infrastructure, encouragement of economic growth, establishment of a new national health care system and modernisation of the Australian Defence Forces.
December 7: Reverend Elvis Presley captures the infamous fugitive fast food thief known as The Hamburglar in a stakeout in Illinois, surprising the burger bandit as he attempted to sneak into a closed McDonalds restaurant to steal, well, hamburgers. Upon unmasking the miscreant and seeing his withered and gaunt visage, the good Reverend is moved by pity at his plight, and conveys him back to his residence in Memphis in his jet biplane to give the wretch a taste of proper provender from his extensive kitchens. The one-time criminal is so impressed that he pledges to abandon his life of wrongdoing and offers to join Presley's posse.
December 8: The Anglo-American Joint Intelligence Committee estimates that, including reserves, the Soviet Union would be able to deploy 4000 tactical aircraft to the Middle Eastern theatre in the event of a general war, 12,000 to Central Europe, 4000 to Southern Europe, 5000 to the Far East and up to 3000 against India, in addition to the bomber threat to Britain, North America and Japan by the Strategicheskaya Dal’naya Aviatsiya ; the improvements anticipated in the next generation of Soviet tactical fighters is considered as presenting a significant challenge to Free World air forces.
December 9: The Ministry of Defence begins an overhaul of British emergency war plans and the contents of the War Book, the first significant revision since 1969, incorporating more extensive domestic security measures appropriate to an extended war, streamlined use of preventive detention and modern countermeasures to urban terrorist threats. Lengthy supercomputer studies of the ideal balance of mobilised reserves and the needs of continued operation of civilian industry and a war economy are to be incorporated into discussions, with a goal of limiting the former to between 6.25% and 7.5% of the populace to be considered.
December 10: The Nobel Prize banquet in Stockholm, now restored to its traditional twenty-one courses under Royal Chef of Sweden Tom Borkbork, sees the award of the joint prize for Chemistry to John Cornforth and Vladimir Prelog for their work on the stereochemistry of enzyme-catalysed reactions, the prize for Literature to William Forrester for his lyrical insights into American life, the prize for Economics to Leonid Kantorovich and Tjalling Koopmans for their findings on the theory of optimum allocation of resources, the prize for Physics to Aage Bohr, Ben Mottelson and James Rainwater for the 'discovery of the connection between collective motion and particle motion in the nuclei of atoms' and that for Medicine to Howard Temin for his discovery of reverse transcriptase. The Peace Prize is presented in Oslo to the wife of Soviet dissident Andrei Sakharov, who has been forbidden from travelling outside of the USSR.
December 11: Jane's Fighting Ships features an extensive editorial on USN nomenclature, with the development of new DEGs of the Oliver Hazard Perry class not only blurring the line with destroyers, but representing such a clear advance on previous destroyer escorts that perhaps the foreign terminology of 'frigates' should be employed; the complicating factor of that terms being used for the DLGs, which are distinct from destroyers, is seen as not insurmountable. Other changing aspects, such as the growing size of carrier air wings for the next generation of ships, play their role in the changes in the type of ships that the USN and other Western fleets are fielding; in particular, the advent of the new F/A-18, now in testing, promises to see an increase in the size and capability of American carrier wings that is being carefully observed by Britain and France.
December 12: Prospectors for British Oil drilling to the west of Shetland complete their tenth appraisal well in what is thought to be oil rich sandstone covering an area of at least 250 square miles, with initial data indicating that there might be as much as 25,000 million barrels of recoverable oil present, along with substantial natural gas.
December 13: The World Heritage Convention of the League of Nations enters into force as it is ratified by Ruritania, the 20th nation to do so. The binding treaty provides for the protection of the cultural, natural and man-made heritage of the world, and provides for the listing by signatories of monuments, building, sites, geological and physiographical natural features and the habitats of animals and plants for protection.
December 14: The Pope offers a deep gesture of symbolic reconciliation between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches, kneeling to kiss the feet of the Metropolitan of Chalcedon, whilst in Constantinople, the Patriarch performs the same act on a representative of the Vatican. Discussion are ongoing as to the arrangement of a potential great ecumenical council to be held in Rome in an effort to engineer a resolution to the 921 year-old Great Schism.
December 15: Announcement of the birth of a son, Karl Franz, to German Crown Prince Siegfried and his wife Princess Viktoria, and grandson to the reigning Kaiser Wilhelm V, at the Imperial Castle in Altendorf. Women's magazines and news media across the world are momentarily rapt with the prospect of the bouncing new royal baby boy, with noted gossip rag Der Spiegel leading the way to secure official pictures. Some of their frenzy almost seems justified, as the infant Karl Franz will one day sit on the Imperial throne…or so the Germans would have us believe.
December 16: A new series of contracts for construction of the first stage of modules for the Commonwealth starship project are announced, with the life support module awarded to a group made up of Armstrong-Whitworth, de Havilland, GKN, Imperial Computing Machines and British Thomson Houston, and the docking bay module to an Anglo-Irish joint conglomerate of Harland & Wolff, Shorts, Anglo-Saxon Petroleum, British Imperial Electric and Hibernia Steel and Engineering.
December 17: President Reagan's United States Supreme Court nominee John Paul Stevens is confirmed 110-0 in a vote by the U.S. Senate, just two weeks after he had been initially nominated. His selection is seen as a sign of respecting the balance and tradition of the court, with indications that a further vacancy will open in the not-too distant future, as Justice Brownell is indicating that he feels that retirement would be attractive.
December 18: Royal assent is granted to the annexation and incorporation of a number of island colonies into Britain proper, most notably Cyprus, but also the British Atlantic and the Pacific. Parliamentary representation for the 5 new seats in Cyprus, 2 seats apiece in Bermuda and Cape Verde, and single seats in St Peter's Island, Galapagos, Easter Island, the Falkland Islands, and Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha. Considerable improvements in satellite communications technology make the vast distances separating the islands seem comparatively scant.
December 19: President Reagan signs an executive order establishing a Strategic Petroleum Reserve of 2.54 billion barrels of crude oil to support the preparedness of the United States economy in case of crisis or a major war, with the figure to be stored being equivalent to 90 days of current domestic oil usage in the USA. American oil production continues to lead the world and supply virtually all of its requirements (with the exception of a modicum of certain extremely specialised products), but the provision of a specific reserve is seen as allowing for the full provision of ordinary production for export to allies and friendly customers whilst maintaining a state of strategic preparation.
December 20: The British Army selects a new design of power armour for its heavy infantry units, along with what is described as a revolutionary new series of flying reconnaissance ‘eyebot’ drone (designated Eyebot Duraframe Subject E) and a range of heavy weapons suitable for both infantry, vehicle and war machine mountings. A concurrent review of general individual equipment recommends the fielding of fireproof Kermel underwear (known to soldiers as ‘vindaloos’), new ballistic weave combat battle dress uniform, a tactical gambeson and Sablon flak jacket and varying sets of body armour; and confirms the acquisition of the FN Minimi in the section automatic rifle role, with a number of weapons to be procured in the new experimental .308” round, to be known as 7.62 x 45mm in the bizarre metric measurements employed on the Continent.
December 21: A conference of the Organisation of Petroleum Exporting Countries in London is briefly disrupted by what a Scotland Yard spokedwarf describes as ‘an unfortunate seasonal prank gone awry’. An apparent group of apparent tourists from apparent parts foreign bedecked with camera bags and headscarves were seen having an altercation in the street outside the conference with a passing group of mustachioed and bearded burly soccer players and supporters of Hereford United, who seem to have bundled the tourists into their bus to join in their Christmastide festivities before constables could intervene. Inquiries into the unscheduled revelry are to continue.
December 22: World aviation sales for the third quarter of 1975 break the previous record set in 1955 for orders of new jet airliners, with the small to medium range category being a particular area of growth in Europe and the insatiable domestic American market.
December 23: The Economist features a guardedly optimistic appraisal of the global financial outlook heading into 1976, with most major Western economies appearing to have the inflationary bugbear somewhat under control, with future potential increases in productivity through the computing and robotics revolutions even having an outside chance of leading to deflation in the view of Professor James Frazer.
December 24: In the spirit of the season, the Ministry of Social Security announces that a special Christmas bonus payment of £25 will be issued to all old aged pensioners, in addition to the customary winter fuel allowance and the provision of free Christmastide meals to the needy by community and church groups and the monasteries.
December 25: Queen Elizabeth II gives her Royal Christmas Message to Britain and the Empire, highlighting the importance of charity and goodwill, and how the greatest gifts are not those that are material. Across the Atlantic, NORAD once again fails to intercept Father Christmas on his journey over the North American continent, and remains perplexed how he managed to get inside the secret Cheyenne Mountain facility without being noticed.
December 26: A new Cray supercomputer purchased by Panam concludes that the annual US 'migration' to Mexico during the winter holiday season will require 122.1% more flights by 1980 should current trends regarding fashions and colder winters persist, and suggests that one potential solution would be for the acquisition of at least 50 new jumbo jets, whilst another would be increasing the number of passengers carried; the latter is regarded as a suboptimal choice, given public expectations of the luxury of air travel.
December 27: The British Army of the Rhine completes its currently projected buildup, with forces in Germany amounting to 8 British and 4 Canadian divisions and the Commonwealth Corps in general support, plus four combined arms field forces, one for each active corps. In the event of mobilisation, each of the 4 British corps will be reinforced by one of the Category A Army Reserve Divisions, whilst the Territorial Army's reinforced Second Army is scheduled to deploy to the Continent. Chief of the Imperial Defence Staff Field Marshal Sir Richard Sharpe, having recently accepted an extensive review of the BAOR's armament has indicated that there was now a preference for improving the capability of existing forces, particularly through new air defence vehicles, guided missiles and new emergent technological weapons systems.
December 28: The final edition of TIME magazine for 1975 features an extensive story on 'The Rise of Japan', with the meteoric economic and industrial growth being experienced by Nippon seen as not having any perceived dissipation any time soon, with one theoretical future outcome describing Tokyo as a nascent superpower that could dominate the world.
December 29: Opening of the Chernobyl Children’s Adventure Park in the Ukrainian SSR, the most advanced such facility in the Soviet Union, featuring the world’s largest maze and graphite tube slide, twenty eight separate themed playgrounds and a multiple level swimming pool.
December 30: The West Indies defeat Australia by 5 runs in the thrilling end to the Boxing Day Test in front of a crowd of 186,274 at the MCG, with debutant fast bowler Joel Garner finishing the game with a sensational hat trick, dismissing Dennis Lillee, Jeff Thomson and Ashley Mallett to leave Rod Marsh stranded on 87*. Man of the match honours go to West Indian batsman Viv Richards for his magisterial 324 in the first innings.
December 31: Contact is lost with the Norwegian bulk ore carrier MS Berge Istra, whose last known location was to the east of Mindanao in the Philippine Sea.
December 1: Detective Inspector Endeavour Morse of the Oxford City Police is hailed for exceptional valour in the rescue of a kidnapped girl and the apprehension of a would-be ‘serial killer’, leading to serious discussion of his nomination for what would be an unprecedented second George Cross. Detective Chief Inspector George Gently, of the Norfolk Constabulary and peripherally involved in the case, is heard to remark to his counterpart DCI Fred Thursday that these may be some of the last years of serial killers in England, given advances in technology and policing methods.
December 2: Establishment of the 57th US Marine Motorcycle Regiment attached to Fleet Marine Forces Atlantic, along with the conventional 54th, 56th, 58th and 60th Marines, the 53rd, 55th and 59th Marine artillery regiments and the first of a number of Marine Light Armored Reconnaissance Battalions. Consideration is being given to establishment of a new US Marine formation suitable for operations with the proposed new Rapid Deployment Joint Task Force, incorporating the Army’s Strategic Army Corps and the USAF’s Composite Air Strike Force and Air Battle Force. The ‘Motorcycle Marines’ are one of the specialised combat units being introduced alongside the U.S. Army’s forces suited for desert warfare operations in the Middle East, Africa and India.
December 3: Philippines Army General Miguel de la Cruz announces on national television and radio that President Salvador Garcia, having felt quite unwell for some time with no clear symptoms before being diagnosed with acute fastidit laborem, is to travel to the United States for urgent medical care to be delivered at his heavily guarded Florida mansion, and that this illness may sadly persist for some time. A large scale Army exercise takes place in Manila as the address is being delivered, and coincidentally, a number of transport aircraft loaded with supporters and family members of the erstwhile President take off for Hawaii, no doubt bound to join their poorly leader and provide plentiful moral support and goodwill for his sudden illness.
December 4: The annual conference of the International Organisation of Vine and Wine in Paris is sent into something of an uproar over allegations that the International Wine Contest in Brussels earlier in the year had been fixed, allegedly after a shock result of New World wines beating French vintages. After several hours of extremely heated argument and 27 challenges to engage in duels, a resolution is reached whereby a blind testing competition will be held in Paris in the spring to decide the merits of the wines in question, under the auspices of a firm of Swiss accounting gnomes and German administrators to avoid any perception of potential bias.
December 5: A meeting between KGB officers and would-be Irish revolutionaries in Colombia agrees upon the provision of arms, training and funds to support any such efforts to hamper and disrupt the British Empire in something of a shift of Soviet policy, which had previously characterised the niche underground movements as entirely too reactionary for potential employment. The change can be partly ascribed to a new, younger and more radical generation of would-be revolutionists, somewhat enamoured with the exploits of terrorist groups in Germany, France, Italy, Japan and the Middle East and less subject to the precepts of druidic authority.
December 6: In the Australian federal election, the ALP is returned to power with a clear majority of 125-98 over the Liberal-Country Coalition. with the triumph being ascribed in large part to the great personal popularity of Prime Minister Bob Hawke. The second term agenda of the Hawke Labour Government is set to focus on extension of national infrastructure, encouragement of economic growth, establishment of a new national health care system and modernisation of the Australian Defence Forces.
December 7: Reverend Elvis Presley captures the infamous fugitive fast food thief known as The Hamburglar in a stakeout in Illinois, surprising the burger bandit as he attempted to sneak into a closed McDonalds restaurant to steal, well, hamburgers. Upon unmasking the miscreant and seeing his withered and gaunt visage, the good Reverend is moved by pity at his plight, and conveys him back to his residence in Memphis in his jet biplane to give the wretch a taste of proper provender from his extensive kitchens. The one-time criminal is so impressed that he pledges to abandon his life of wrongdoing and offers to join Presley's posse.
December 8: The Anglo-American Joint Intelligence Committee estimates that, including reserves, the Soviet Union would be able to deploy 4000 tactical aircraft to the Middle Eastern theatre in the event of a general war, 12,000 to Central Europe, 4000 to Southern Europe, 5000 to the Far East and up to 3000 against India, in addition to the bomber threat to Britain, North America and Japan by the Strategicheskaya Dal’naya Aviatsiya ; the improvements anticipated in the next generation of Soviet tactical fighters is considered as presenting a significant challenge to Free World air forces.
December 9: The Ministry of Defence begins an overhaul of British emergency war plans and the contents of the War Book, the first significant revision since 1969, incorporating more extensive domestic security measures appropriate to an extended war, streamlined use of preventive detention and modern countermeasures to urban terrorist threats. Lengthy supercomputer studies of the ideal balance of mobilised reserves and the needs of continued operation of civilian industry and a war economy are to be incorporated into discussions, with a goal of limiting the former to between 6.25% and 7.5% of the populace to be considered.
December 10: The Nobel Prize banquet in Stockholm, now restored to its traditional twenty-one courses under Royal Chef of Sweden Tom Borkbork, sees the award of the joint prize for Chemistry to John Cornforth and Vladimir Prelog for their work on the stereochemistry of enzyme-catalysed reactions, the prize for Literature to William Forrester for his lyrical insights into American life, the prize for Economics to Leonid Kantorovich and Tjalling Koopmans for their findings on the theory of optimum allocation of resources, the prize for Physics to Aage Bohr, Ben Mottelson and James Rainwater for the 'discovery of the connection between collective motion and particle motion in the nuclei of atoms' and that for Medicine to Howard Temin for his discovery of reverse transcriptase. The Peace Prize is presented in Oslo to the wife of Soviet dissident Andrei Sakharov, who has been forbidden from travelling outside of the USSR.
December 11: Jane's Fighting Ships features an extensive editorial on USN nomenclature, with the development of new DEGs of the Oliver Hazard Perry class not only blurring the line with destroyers, but representing such a clear advance on previous destroyer escorts that perhaps the foreign terminology of 'frigates' should be employed; the complicating factor of that terms being used for the DLGs, which are distinct from destroyers, is seen as not insurmountable. Other changing aspects, such as the growing size of carrier air wings for the next generation of ships, play their role in the changes in the type of ships that the USN and other Western fleets are fielding; in particular, the advent of the new F/A-18, now in testing, promises to see an increase in the size and capability of American carrier wings that is being carefully observed by Britain and France.
December 12: Prospectors for British Oil drilling to the west of Shetland complete their tenth appraisal well in what is thought to be oil rich sandstone covering an area of at least 250 square miles, with initial data indicating that there might be as much as 25,000 million barrels of recoverable oil present, along with substantial natural gas.
December 13: The World Heritage Convention of the League of Nations enters into force as it is ratified by Ruritania, the 20th nation to do so. The binding treaty provides for the protection of the cultural, natural and man-made heritage of the world, and provides for the listing by signatories of monuments, building, sites, geological and physiographical natural features and the habitats of animals and plants for protection.
December 14: The Pope offers a deep gesture of symbolic reconciliation between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches, kneeling to kiss the feet of the Metropolitan of Chalcedon, whilst in Constantinople, the Patriarch performs the same act on a representative of the Vatican. Discussion are ongoing as to the arrangement of a potential great ecumenical council to be held in Rome in an effort to engineer a resolution to the 921 year-old Great Schism.
December 15: Announcement of the birth of a son, Karl Franz, to German Crown Prince Siegfried and his wife Princess Viktoria, and grandson to the reigning Kaiser Wilhelm V, at the Imperial Castle in Altendorf. Women's magazines and news media across the world are momentarily rapt with the prospect of the bouncing new royal baby boy, with noted gossip rag Der Spiegel leading the way to secure official pictures. Some of their frenzy almost seems justified, as the infant Karl Franz will one day sit on the Imperial throne…or so the Germans would have us believe.
December 16: A new series of contracts for construction of the first stage of modules for the Commonwealth starship project are announced, with the life support module awarded to a group made up of Armstrong-Whitworth, de Havilland, GKN, Imperial Computing Machines and British Thomson Houston, and the docking bay module to an Anglo-Irish joint conglomerate of Harland & Wolff, Shorts, Anglo-Saxon Petroleum, British Imperial Electric and Hibernia Steel and Engineering.
December 17: President Reagan's United States Supreme Court nominee John Paul Stevens is confirmed 110-0 in a vote by the U.S. Senate, just two weeks after he had been initially nominated. His selection is seen as a sign of respecting the balance and tradition of the court, with indications that a further vacancy will open in the not-too distant future, as Justice Brownell is indicating that he feels that retirement would be attractive.
December 18: Royal assent is granted to the annexation and incorporation of a number of island colonies into Britain proper, most notably Cyprus, but also the British Atlantic and the Pacific. Parliamentary representation for the 5 new seats in Cyprus, 2 seats apiece in Bermuda and Cape Verde, and single seats in St Peter's Island, Galapagos, Easter Island, the Falkland Islands, and Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha. Considerable improvements in satellite communications technology make the vast distances separating the islands seem comparatively scant.
December 19: President Reagan signs an executive order establishing a Strategic Petroleum Reserve of 2.54 billion barrels of crude oil to support the preparedness of the United States economy in case of crisis or a major war, with the figure to be stored being equivalent to 90 days of current domestic oil usage in the USA. American oil production continues to lead the world and supply virtually all of its requirements (with the exception of a modicum of certain extremely specialised products), but the provision of a specific reserve is seen as allowing for the full provision of ordinary production for export to allies and friendly customers whilst maintaining a state of strategic preparation.
December 20: The British Army selects a new design of power armour for its heavy infantry units, along with what is described as a revolutionary new series of flying reconnaissance ‘eyebot’ drone (designated Eyebot Duraframe Subject E) and a range of heavy weapons suitable for both infantry, vehicle and war machine mountings. A concurrent review of general individual equipment recommends the fielding of fireproof Kermel underwear (known to soldiers as ‘vindaloos’), new ballistic weave combat battle dress uniform, a tactical gambeson and Sablon flak jacket and varying sets of body armour; and confirms the acquisition of the FN Minimi in the section automatic rifle role, with a number of weapons to be procured in the new experimental .308” round, to be known as 7.62 x 45mm in the bizarre metric measurements employed on the Continent.
December 21: A conference of the Organisation of Petroleum Exporting Countries in London is briefly disrupted by what a Scotland Yard spokedwarf describes as ‘an unfortunate seasonal prank gone awry’. An apparent group of apparent tourists from apparent parts foreign bedecked with camera bags and headscarves were seen having an altercation in the street outside the conference with a passing group of mustachioed and bearded burly soccer players and supporters of Hereford United, who seem to have bundled the tourists into their bus to join in their Christmastide festivities before constables could intervene. Inquiries into the unscheduled revelry are to continue.
December 22: World aviation sales for the third quarter of 1975 break the previous record set in 1955 for orders of new jet airliners, with the small to medium range category being a particular area of growth in Europe and the insatiable domestic American market.
December 23: The Economist features a guardedly optimistic appraisal of the global financial outlook heading into 1976, with most major Western economies appearing to have the inflationary bugbear somewhat under control, with future potential increases in productivity through the computing and robotics revolutions even having an outside chance of leading to deflation in the view of Professor James Frazer.
December 24: In the spirit of the season, the Ministry of Social Security announces that a special Christmas bonus payment of £25 will be issued to all old aged pensioners, in addition to the customary winter fuel allowance and the provision of free Christmastide meals to the needy by community and church groups and the monasteries.
December 25: Queen Elizabeth II gives her Royal Christmas Message to Britain and the Empire, highlighting the importance of charity and goodwill, and how the greatest gifts are not those that are material. Across the Atlantic, NORAD once again fails to intercept Father Christmas on his journey over the North American continent, and remains perplexed how he managed to get inside the secret Cheyenne Mountain facility without being noticed.
December 26: A new Cray supercomputer purchased by Panam concludes that the annual US 'migration' to Mexico during the winter holiday season will require 122.1% more flights by 1980 should current trends regarding fashions and colder winters persist, and suggests that one potential solution would be for the acquisition of at least 50 new jumbo jets, whilst another would be increasing the number of passengers carried; the latter is regarded as a suboptimal choice, given public expectations of the luxury of air travel.
December 27: The British Army of the Rhine completes its currently projected buildup, with forces in Germany amounting to 8 British and 4 Canadian divisions and the Commonwealth Corps in general support, plus four combined arms field forces, one for each active corps. In the event of mobilisation, each of the 4 British corps will be reinforced by one of the Category A Army Reserve Divisions, whilst the Territorial Army's reinforced Second Army is scheduled to deploy to the Continent. Chief of the Imperial Defence Staff Field Marshal Sir Richard Sharpe, having recently accepted an extensive review of the BAOR's armament has indicated that there was now a preference for improving the capability of existing forces, particularly through new air defence vehicles, guided missiles and new emergent technological weapons systems.
December 28: The final edition of TIME magazine for 1975 features an extensive story on 'The Rise of Japan', with the meteoric economic and industrial growth being experienced by Nippon seen as not having any perceived dissipation any time soon, with one theoretical future outcome describing Tokyo as a nascent superpower that could dominate the world.
December 29: Opening of the Chernobyl Children’s Adventure Park in the Ukrainian SSR, the most advanced such facility in the Soviet Union, featuring the world’s largest maze and graphite tube slide, twenty eight separate themed playgrounds and a multiple level swimming pool.
December 30: The West Indies defeat Australia by 5 runs in the thrilling end to the Boxing Day Test in front of a crowd of 186,274 at the MCG, with debutant fast bowler Joel Garner finishing the game with a sensational hat trick, dismissing Dennis Lillee, Jeff Thomson and Ashley Mallett to leave Rod Marsh stranded on 87*. Man of the match honours go to West Indian batsman Viv Richards for his magisterial 324 in the first innings.
December 31: Contact is lost with the Norwegian bulk ore carrier MS Berge Istra, whose last known location was to the east of Mindanao in the Philippine Sea.
-
Simon Darkshade
- Posts: 1671
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:55 am
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
December 1975 Notes
- Morse probably deserved a few medals in his time. The broader note on December 1st is that the age of the serial killer is ending before it really hit its peak historically, with advancements in forensics, investigation, computerisation of records and an equivalent to the impact of DNA combining to seriously shut the door on it as a career or calling
- The Motorcycle Marines were the stuff of a late 1980s rather imaginative story/report on the prospect: https://www.globalsecurity.org/military ... 88/YDJ.htm , whilst the fielding of LAR battalions is bound to be familiar. A new formation suitable to the mooted RDJTF, which here is separate from Central Command, is something different altogether, influenced by ICARUS. Note the presence of an Air Battle Force in addition to the CASF
- It seems that something of a peaceful coup has taken place in the Philippines
- December 4 is paving the way to the 1976 'Judgment of Paris', with a fair bit more drama and more seemingly at stake
- The Soviets, having suffered another effective defeat in Vietnam on top of Korea and the 1956 rebuff to their ambitions to penetrate the Middle East, are now increasingly pushing down the insurgency and urban terrorist pathway. The Irish in question aren't the @ IRA or even the INLA, but rather more radical and extreme in some respects; the issue for them is complicated by the lack of the same religious dimension to internal Irish politics
- Bob Hawke leads the ALP to a strong victory as something of an anti-Whitlam, with his goals for Australia similar in some respects but lacking the context for the shift to economic rationalism that characterised the Hawke/Keating government in the 1980s
- Elvis manages to turn The Hamburglar towards the path of proper burger appreciation; this will eventually turn into more than just a throwaway joke
- The JIC's estimates are on the small side, but the very large numbers of older Soviet tactical fighters, such as the MiG-17, MiG-19, Su-7 and the ahistorical jet Sturmoviks of Ilyushin and other tactical bomber and attack planes produced by Tupolev and Petlyakov, which were built in job lots here under Stalin Sr and Jr, are now being replaced by a new generation of planes built in 'Soviet numbers'
- Revision of British emergency plans, mobilisation errata and TTW arrangements in the War Book is a fairly regular step, but now the addition of supercomputer capacity makes for even more detailed and organised measures, such as gaming out optimal transport strategies and as alluded to, determining the largest number of men (women not really being factored into planning at this point in this sense) that can be mobilised in TTW without deep sixing the British economy. This is influenced by a shift to an understanding that a somewhat longer war is likely, given advances in strategic defences and other classified capacities, and plays into how the Ministry of Labour is keeping track on employment in different industries in order to best coordinate manpower
- The Nobel Prizes are largely the same, with the exception of that for Medicine, where research into cancer would no longer have quite the same cachet; the prize for Literature, which goes to the eponymous main character of the 2000 Gus Van Sant film Finding Forrester ; and the Royal Chef of Sweden being hinted as being a humanoid equivalent to the Swedish Chef
- Janes tries to predict which way the USN will go on nomenclature, and as it frequently does, draws a slightly different conclusion to what will actually play out. The offhand mention of the larger CVWs of the Ticonderoga class and the F/A-18s is a deliberate one
- Oil prospectors have found something a bit larger than the @ Clair oilfield, but the true economic impact is somewhat measured due to a lack of the historical 1970s spike in oil prices
- The Great Schism creeps closer to some sort of potential reconciliation. Perhaps
- Karl Franz is mentioned both as a little hat tip to Warhammer Fantasy (with the name itself not being unprecedented in the historical House of Hohenzollern) and to a little comedic sketch by a chap named Norman Macdonald; it does secure German succession. Altendorf, as can be worked out from the name, is a German equivalent to a 'New Town' near Hohengandern
- Commonwealth starship contracts are big, multi-decade jobs as discussed in 1974. That brings it to Life Support (Ireland), Habitation (Canada), Engineering (Scotland), Supply/Storage (Midlands) and Life Support (Northern England), with other potential contracts being discussed for Southern England, Wales and Australia/NZ. The biggies - the engines - are not being contemplated yet, as the technology hasn't yet been developed
- John Paul Stevens getting nominated reflects the staider nature of the times and a more traditional approach to confirmation. The next vacancy will likely be from the conservative wing of the Court
- Incorporation of a number of different island colonies/British Overseas Territories in Britain follows the path already started, which is effectively very similar to that employed by France in our time. This does put a different slant on any theoretical conflict involving certain South Atlantic islands, but circumstances there are already so markedly different as to make any action unlikely without a 10 year Argy build up and complete personality transplant
- A Strategic Petroleum Reserve is formed in the USA, but for different reasons, with the US not being dependent upon foreign oil imports at this point. Daily US usage is 28 million bbl equivalent, which is somewhat smaller than we might anticipate due to less use of oil fired power stations, gradual moves towards electricity for domestic heating purposes and different options regarding US railways being considered
- The British Army continues to make modernisation of individual equipment a priority. Breaking things down, the battle dress and gradual improvements to webbing will provide for greater survivability; the body armour and flak jackets will further multiply that factor; eyebots like the ED-E will provide a much better view of the battlefield than any 20th century commanders; the Minimi is being acquired not as an LMG, but in a different role as a Squad Automatic Rifle; and one potential calibre being considered, in addition to the present .256", is the 7.62 x 45mm, which here has not been tried by the Czechs/Austro-Hungarians to date
- The OPEC incident saw an attempted terrorist raid on the meeting detected quite early, and a decision made to have the suspects lifted without too much of a public fuss
- A potential spectre of some degree of deflation is being contemplated in some quarters; note that the author of the piece has a reputation for thinking that 'We're all doomed'
- The £25 Christmas bonus payment occurs in 1975 vs 1972 for the reason that there is an election coming in 1976
- Father Christmas getting into Cheyenne Mountain perplexes some US Air Force officials, but not to the extent or language that might result in them getting a lump of coal next year
- The annual US 'migration' to Mexico (and New Avalon) is simply a mark of increased affluence allowing more than just the extremely rich to do as the birds do and fly south for the (worst of the) winter
- The BAOR completes its structural adjustments of 1965-1975, and now, as Sharpe indicates, there will be an accent upon improving the armament of the various units
- Japan rising to superpower status was not an unknown fear even in 1975
- A Chernobyl Children's Adventure Park is what the city will be best known for in future years
- The Windies have a victory where historically they had an 8 wicket defeat, largely on account of some different men in their lineup and Richards having a late Christmas present
- Berge Istra goes missing...
-
- Morse probably deserved a few medals in his time. The broader note on December 1st is that the age of the serial killer is ending before it really hit its peak historically, with advancements in forensics, investigation, computerisation of records and an equivalent to the impact of DNA combining to seriously shut the door on it as a career or calling
- The Motorcycle Marines were the stuff of a late 1980s rather imaginative story/report on the prospect: https://www.globalsecurity.org/military ... 88/YDJ.htm , whilst the fielding of LAR battalions is bound to be familiar. A new formation suitable to the mooted RDJTF, which here is separate from Central Command, is something different altogether, influenced by ICARUS. Note the presence of an Air Battle Force in addition to the CASF
- It seems that something of a peaceful coup has taken place in the Philippines
- December 4 is paving the way to the 1976 'Judgment of Paris', with a fair bit more drama and more seemingly at stake
- The Soviets, having suffered another effective defeat in Vietnam on top of Korea and the 1956 rebuff to their ambitions to penetrate the Middle East, are now increasingly pushing down the insurgency and urban terrorist pathway. The Irish in question aren't the @ IRA or even the INLA, but rather more radical and extreme in some respects; the issue for them is complicated by the lack of the same religious dimension to internal Irish politics
- Bob Hawke leads the ALP to a strong victory as something of an anti-Whitlam, with his goals for Australia similar in some respects but lacking the context for the shift to economic rationalism that characterised the Hawke/Keating government in the 1980s
- Elvis manages to turn The Hamburglar towards the path of proper burger appreciation; this will eventually turn into more than just a throwaway joke
- The JIC's estimates are on the small side, but the very large numbers of older Soviet tactical fighters, such as the MiG-17, MiG-19, Su-7 and the ahistorical jet Sturmoviks of Ilyushin and other tactical bomber and attack planes produced by Tupolev and Petlyakov, which were built in job lots here under Stalin Sr and Jr, are now being replaced by a new generation of planes built in 'Soviet numbers'
- Revision of British emergency plans, mobilisation errata and TTW arrangements in the War Book is a fairly regular step, but now the addition of supercomputer capacity makes for even more detailed and organised measures, such as gaming out optimal transport strategies and as alluded to, determining the largest number of men (women not really being factored into planning at this point in this sense) that can be mobilised in TTW without deep sixing the British economy. This is influenced by a shift to an understanding that a somewhat longer war is likely, given advances in strategic defences and other classified capacities, and plays into how the Ministry of Labour is keeping track on employment in different industries in order to best coordinate manpower
- The Nobel Prizes are largely the same, with the exception of that for Medicine, where research into cancer would no longer have quite the same cachet; the prize for Literature, which goes to the eponymous main character of the 2000 Gus Van Sant film Finding Forrester ; and the Royal Chef of Sweden being hinted as being a humanoid equivalent to the Swedish Chef
- Janes tries to predict which way the USN will go on nomenclature, and as it frequently does, draws a slightly different conclusion to what will actually play out. The offhand mention of the larger CVWs of the Ticonderoga class and the F/A-18s is a deliberate one
- Oil prospectors have found something a bit larger than the @ Clair oilfield, but the true economic impact is somewhat measured due to a lack of the historical 1970s spike in oil prices
- The Great Schism creeps closer to some sort of potential reconciliation. Perhaps
- Karl Franz is mentioned both as a little hat tip to Warhammer Fantasy (with the name itself not being unprecedented in the historical House of Hohenzollern) and to a little comedic sketch by a chap named Norman Macdonald; it does secure German succession. Altendorf, as can be worked out from the name, is a German equivalent to a 'New Town' near Hohengandern
- Commonwealth starship contracts are big, multi-decade jobs as discussed in 1974. That brings it to Life Support (Ireland), Habitation (Canada), Engineering (Scotland), Supply/Storage (Midlands) and Life Support (Northern England), with other potential contracts being discussed for Southern England, Wales and Australia/NZ. The biggies - the engines - are not being contemplated yet, as the technology hasn't yet been developed
- John Paul Stevens getting nominated reflects the staider nature of the times and a more traditional approach to confirmation. The next vacancy will likely be from the conservative wing of the Court
- Incorporation of a number of different island colonies/British Overseas Territories in Britain follows the path already started, which is effectively very similar to that employed by France in our time. This does put a different slant on any theoretical conflict involving certain South Atlantic islands, but circumstances there are already so markedly different as to make any action unlikely without a 10 year Argy build up and complete personality transplant
- A Strategic Petroleum Reserve is formed in the USA, but for different reasons, with the US not being dependent upon foreign oil imports at this point. Daily US usage is 28 million bbl equivalent, which is somewhat smaller than we might anticipate due to less use of oil fired power stations, gradual moves towards electricity for domestic heating purposes and different options regarding US railways being considered
- The British Army continues to make modernisation of individual equipment a priority. Breaking things down, the battle dress and gradual improvements to webbing will provide for greater survivability; the body armour and flak jackets will further multiply that factor; eyebots like the ED-E will provide a much better view of the battlefield than any 20th century commanders; the Minimi is being acquired not as an LMG, but in a different role as a Squad Automatic Rifle; and one potential calibre being considered, in addition to the present .256", is the 7.62 x 45mm, which here has not been tried by the Czechs/Austro-Hungarians to date
- The OPEC incident saw an attempted terrorist raid on the meeting detected quite early, and a decision made to have the suspects lifted without too much of a public fuss
- A potential spectre of some degree of deflation is being contemplated in some quarters; note that the author of the piece has a reputation for thinking that 'We're all doomed'
- The £25 Christmas bonus payment occurs in 1975 vs 1972 for the reason that there is an election coming in 1976
- Father Christmas getting into Cheyenne Mountain perplexes some US Air Force officials, but not to the extent or language that might result in them getting a lump of coal next year
- The annual US 'migration' to Mexico (and New Avalon) is simply a mark of increased affluence allowing more than just the extremely rich to do as the birds do and fly south for the (worst of the) winter
- The BAOR completes its structural adjustments of 1965-1975, and now, as Sharpe indicates, there will be an accent upon improving the armament of the various units
- Japan rising to superpower status was not an unknown fear even in 1975
- A Chernobyl Children's Adventure Park is what the city will be best known for in future years
- The Windies have a victory where historically they had an 8 wicket defeat, largely on account of some different men in their lineup and Richards having a late Christmas present
- Berge Istra goes missing...
-
-
Belushi TD
- Posts: 1504
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:20 am
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
December 2 - Motorcycle regiments? There's something going on here that I don't get....
December 4 - I WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE RESULT OF THE DUELS WERE!!!
December 7 - Why do I sense a redemption commercial somewhere? Also, every time I'm reminded that Elvis has a jet biplane, it makes my day a little brighter.
December 11 - So Janes wants to make the USN nomenclature even more disjointed? Or am I misreading this?
December 13 - How many nations are part of the league of nations? 20 seems a very low bar to activate a binding treaty.
December 15 - Why do I hear some kind of ominous music in my head?
December 17 - 110 seats in the US senate? I'm sure you've posted something about state names, but I can't remember where or when. I know Alaska isn't a state, and belongs to Canada, but where did the other 6 states come from?
December 18 - Adding 14 seats to the house of commons, right? The house of Lords doesn't represent geographical areas in DE, does it?
December 31 - This is likewise ominous.
Love to see each and every one of these.
Belushi TD
December 4 - I WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE RESULT OF THE DUELS WERE!!!
December 7 - Why do I sense a redemption commercial somewhere? Also, every time I'm reminded that Elvis has a jet biplane, it makes my day a little brighter.
December 11 - So Janes wants to make the USN nomenclature even more disjointed? Or am I misreading this?
December 13 - How many nations are part of the league of nations? 20 seems a very low bar to activate a binding treaty.
December 15 - Why do I hear some kind of ominous music in my head?
December 17 - 110 seats in the US senate? I'm sure you've posted something about state names, but I can't remember where or when. I know Alaska isn't a state, and belongs to Canada, but where did the other 6 states come from?
December 18 - Adding 14 seats to the house of commons, right? The house of Lords doesn't represent geographical areas in DE, does it?
December 31 - This is likewise ominous.
Love to see each and every one of these.
Belushi TD
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Simon Darkshade
- Posts: 1671
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:55 am
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
I'll have to add more a little later, but for now, I give you, the United States of America:
1972 USA: 360,254,578 (vs 203,392,031)
643 Electoral College Votes (322 for a Majority)
New York: 35,245,149 (56 votes)
California: 32,063,598 (50 votes)
Texas: 20,764,392 (34 votes)
Pennsylvania: 20,556,983 (34 votes)
Illinois: 20,037,960 (33 votes)
Ohio: 16,978,224 (28 votes)
Michigan: 12,283,997 (21 votes)
Massachusetts: 11,084,436 (19 votes)
Indiana: 10,692,357 (18 votes)
Florida: 9,375,333 (16 votes)
Virginia: 9,240,346 (16 votes)
New Jersey: 9,125,832 (16 votes)
North Carolina: 8,425,539 (15 votes)
Washington: 8,215,363 (14 votes)
Wisconsin: 7,282,235 (13 votes)
Missouri: 7,126,774 (13 votes)
Georgia: 6,619,233 (12 votes)
Maryland: 6,428,355 (12 votes)
Alabama: 5,854,100 (11 votes)
Minnesota: 5,623,260 (11 votes)
Arizona: 5,553,013 (10 votes)
South Carolina: 5,629,244 (10 votes)
Kentucky: 5,569,123 (10 votes)
Louisiana: 5,256,198 (10 votes)
Connecticut: 4,931,253 (9 votes)
Iowa: 4,854,014 (9 votes)
Tennessee: 4,123,578 (8 votes)
Oregon: 4,025,148 (8 votes)
Jefferson: 3,845,772 (7 votes)
Kansas: 3,759,040 (7 votes)
Mississippi: 3,618,445 (7 votes)
Arkansas: 3,298,173 (7 votes)
Colorado: 3,167,818 (6 votes)
Oklahoma: 3,094,346 (6 votes)
Franklin: 2,904,433 (6 votes)
West Virginia: 2,888,362 (6 votes)
Hawaii: 2,795,391 (6 votes)
New Mexico: 2,591,196 (6 votes)
Washington DC: 2,534,966 (6 votes)
Nebraska: 2,457,974 (5 votes)
Utah: 2,130,967 (5 votes)
Nevada: 1,965,125 (5 votes)
Lincoln: 1,763,092 (4 votes)
Maine: 1,684,711 (4 votes)
Rhode Island: 1,528,869 (4 votes)
Idaho: 1,264,536 (3 votes)
New Hampshire: 1,095,300 (3 votes)
South Dakota: 1,054,728 (3 votes)
Sequoyah: 1,029,564 (3 votes)
Montana: 967,820 (3 votes)
North Dakota: 950,572 (3 votes)
Sylvania: 875,512 (3 votes)
Delaware: 844,522 (3 votes)
Vermont: 645,917 (3 votes)
Wyoming: 532,390 (3 votes)
The different/additional states are
- Sylvania (proposed state of Superior)
- Franklin (the proposed Tennessee area)
- Jefferson (Northern California/Shasta and a teensy bit of Oregon)
- Lincoln (Eastern Washington State)
- Sequoyah (Indian Territory part of what became Oklahoma)
1972 USA: 360,254,578 (vs 203,392,031)
643 Electoral College Votes (322 for a Majority)
New York: 35,245,149 (56 votes)
California: 32,063,598 (50 votes)
Texas: 20,764,392 (34 votes)
Pennsylvania: 20,556,983 (34 votes)
Illinois: 20,037,960 (33 votes)
Ohio: 16,978,224 (28 votes)
Michigan: 12,283,997 (21 votes)
Massachusetts: 11,084,436 (19 votes)
Indiana: 10,692,357 (18 votes)
Florida: 9,375,333 (16 votes)
Virginia: 9,240,346 (16 votes)
New Jersey: 9,125,832 (16 votes)
North Carolina: 8,425,539 (15 votes)
Washington: 8,215,363 (14 votes)
Wisconsin: 7,282,235 (13 votes)
Missouri: 7,126,774 (13 votes)
Georgia: 6,619,233 (12 votes)
Maryland: 6,428,355 (12 votes)
Alabama: 5,854,100 (11 votes)
Minnesota: 5,623,260 (11 votes)
Arizona: 5,553,013 (10 votes)
South Carolina: 5,629,244 (10 votes)
Kentucky: 5,569,123 (10 votes)
Louisiana: 5,256,198 (10 votes)
Connecticut: 4,931,253 (9 votes)
Iowa: 4,854,014 (9 votes)
Tennessee: 4,123,578 (8 votes)
Oregon: 4,025,148 (8 votes)
Jefferson: 3,845,772 (7 votes)
Kansas: 3,759,040 (7 votes)
Mississippi: 3,618,445 (7 votes)
Arkansas: 3,298,173 (7 votes)
Colorado: 3,167,818 (6 votes)
Oklahoma: 3,094,346 (6 votes)
Franklin: 2,904,433 (6 votes)
West Virginia: 2,888,362 (6 votes)
Hawaii: 2,795,391 (6 votes)
New Mexico: 2,591,196 (6 votes)
Washington DC: 2,534,966 (6 votes)
Nebraska: 2,457,974 (5 votes)
Utah: 2,130,967 (5 votes)
Nevada: 1,965,125 (5 votes)
Lincoln: 1,763,092 (4 votes)
Maine: 1,684,711 (4 votes)
Rhode Island: 1,528,869 (4 votes)
Idaho: 1,264,536 (3 votes)
New Hampshire: 1,095,300 (3 votes)
South Dakota: 1,054,728 (3 votes)
Sequoyah: 1,029,564 (3 votes)
Montana: 967,820 (3 votes)
North Dakota: 950,572 (3 votes)
Sylvania: 875,512 (3 votes)
Delaware: 844,522 (3 votes)
Vermont: 645,917 (3 votes)
Wyoming: 532,390 (3 votes)
The different/additional states are
- Sylvania (proposed state of Superior)
- Franklin (the proposed Tennessee area)
- Jefferson (Northern California/Shasta and a teensy bit of Oregon)
- Lincoln (Eastern Washington State)
- Sequoyah (Indian Territory part of what became Oklahoma)
Last edited by Simon Darkshade on Mon Nov 10, 2025 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Simon Darkshade
- Posts: 1671
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:55 am
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Belushi,Belushi TD wrote: ↑Mon Nov 10, 2025 2:29 pm December 2 - Motorcycle regiments? There's something going on here that I don't get....
December 4 - I WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE RESULT OF THE DUELS WERE!!!
December 7 - Why do I sense a redemption commercial somewhere? Also, every time I'm reminded that Elvis has a jet biplane, it makes my day a little brighter.
December 11 - So Janes wants to make the USN nomenclature even more disjointed? Or am I misreading this?
December 13 - How many nations are part of the league of nations? 20 seems a very low bar to activate a binding treaty.
December 15 - Why do I hear some kind of ominous music in my head?
December 17 - 110 seats in the US senate? I'm sure you've posted something about state names, but I can't remember where or when. I know Alaska isn't a state, and belongs to Canada, but where did the other 6 states come from?
December 18 - Adding 14 seats to the house of commons, right? The house of Lords doesn't represent geographical areas in DE, does it?
December 31 - This is likewise ominous.
Love to see each and every one of these.
Belushi TD
2.) The Motorcycle Marines are an example of what happens when there is a large defence budget, a policy directive to cover more figurative bases and some highly individual ideas being proposed. To give a very brief précis of what the linked article discusses, it comes from the same basis as the motorised experiments with the 9th Infantry Division in the 1980s.
4.) 5 arrests, 6 broken baguettes and some very chastened half sozzled French winos after the Paris Police let their police tiger off his chain, with his enraged roar restoring order to proceedings.
7.) You might be on the right track; Elvis may also establish his own restaurant chain at some point.
Not only does he have a quite large jet biplane, but it is as recognisable and recognised as Air Force One. When someone sees Reverend Presley’s plane above their town, they know help is on the way.
11.) Sort of the other way around - they would see the USN generally adopt foreign class naming conventions.
13.) The League has 135 members. The number for a treaty to be binding varies from treaty to treaty; in this case, it was 20, showing that it is viewed as somewhat less constrictive.
15.) Probably echoes from singing in the cathedral. Take a couple of proton pills and have a good lie down.
17.) I listed 5 states above, with the District of Columbia having the status of a quasi-state, mainly because I’m setting up a nice legal case.
18.) The seats go to the House of Commons, and you are correct on the Lords not having a geographic component.
31.) It was a historical loss, but here, with big lizards in the Pacific, there might be another explanation. Or maybe not…
Simon
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Simon Darkshade
- Posts: 1671
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:55 am
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Where Are The Carriers (USN 1975)
Fleet Carriers
Midway: Seventh Fleet, Asiatic Fleet (Subic Bay)
Franklin D. Roosevelt: Pacific Reserve Fleet, Bremerton
Coral Sea: First Fleet, Pacific Fleet (Pearl Harbor)
Iwo Jima: Atlantic Reserve Fleet, Boston
Okinawa: Training Carrier, Pacific Fleet
Guadalcanal: Training Carrier, Atlantic Fleet
Tripoli: Second Fleet, Atlantic Fleet (Mayport)
New Orleans: Sixth Fleet, Mediterranean (Nice)
United States: Second Fleet, Atlantic Fleet (Norfolk)
America: Regular Overhaul and Maintenance, Philadelphia (To Complete 4/76, then Atlantic Fleet)
Independence: First Fleet, Pacific Fleet (San Diego)
Ranger: Complex Overhaul and Maintenance, Norfolk (To Complete 11/77, then Mediterranean Fleet)
Saratoga: Sixth Fleet, Mediterranean (Nice)
Chesapeake: Complex Overhaul and Maintenance, Bremerton (To Complete 9/78, then Pacific Fleet)
Constellation: Regular Overhaul and Maintenance, Pearl Harbor (To Complete 7/76, then Asiatic Fleet)
Kitty Hawk: First Fleet, Pacific Fleet (San Diego)
Enterprise: Second Fleet, Atlantic Fleet (Norfolk)
Langley: Service Life Extension Programme, New York (To Complete 5/78, then Atlantic Fleet)
Princeton: Complex Overhaul and Maintenance, San Diego (To Complete 8/77, then Pacific Fleet)
Intrepid: Regular Overhaul and Maintenance, Bremerton (To Complete 4/76, then Atlantic Fleet)
Hornet: Seventh Fleet, Asiatic Fleet (Subic Bay)
Wasp: Eighth Fleet (Roosevelt Roads, Porto Rico)
Yorktown: Seventh Fleet, Asiatic Fleet (Subic Bay)
Lexington: Sixth Fleet, Mediterranean (Nice)
Gettysburg: Regular Overhaul and Maintenance, Norfolk (To Complete 9/76, then Atlantic Fleet)
Essex: Seventh Fleet, Asiatic Fleet (Norfolk)
Kearsarge: Regular Overhaul and Maintenance, Boston (To Complete 6/76, then Mediterranean Fleet)
Franklin: Fifth Fleet (Bombay)
Ticonderoga: First Fleet, Pacific Fleet (San Diego)
Shiloh: Second Fleet, Atlantic Fleet (Norfolk)
Bunker Hill: Sixth Fleet, Mediterranean (Nice)
Valley Forge: Working Up with Pacific Fleet, San Diego (To Complete 8/76, then Pacific Fleet)
Under Construction
Philippine Sea: LD September 17 1969 (Newport News Shipbuilding), Launched June 30 1973, Due to Commission June 18 1976
Antietam: LD March 24 1970 (New York Shipbuilding Corporation), Launched October 14 1974, Due to Commission July 1977
Khe Sanh: LD August 27 1971 (American Shipbuilding Corporation), Launched January 31 1975, Due to Commission February 1978
Leyte Gulf: LD February 19 1972 (Bethlehem SB Fore River), Launched September 1st 1975, Due to Commission April 1979
Bonhomme Richard: LD July 25 1973 (Newport News Shipbuilding), Launched November 3rd 1976, Due to Commission January 1980
Port Royal: LD May 4 1973 (New York Navy Shipyard), Due to Launch August 1976, Due to Commission September 1980
Oriskany: LD June 1 1974 (Philadelphia Navy Shipyard), Due to Launch September 1977, Due to Commission August 1981
Reprisal: LD April 23 1975 (Long Beach Navy Shipyard), Due to Launch December 1978, Due to Commission November 1982
Light Fleet Carriers
Alliance: Reserve Fleet, Boston
Shangri-La: Reserve Fleet, Charleston
Manila Bay: Reserve Fleet, Norfolk
Cowpens: Reserve Fleet, New York
Bastogne: Reserve Fleet, Astoria
Chancellorsville: Reserve Fleet, San Diego
Vicksburg: Reserve Fleet, Long Beach
Tassafaronga: Reserve Fleet, Bremerton
Bennington: Training Carrier, Atlantic Fleet
Hancock: Training Carrier, Atlantic Fleet
San Jacinto: Training Carrier, Pacific Fleet
Vincennes: Training Carrier, Pacific Fleet
Anzio: Third Fleet, Pacific Fleet
Randolph: Third Fleet, Pacific Fleet
Cape Esperance: Third Fleet, Pacific Fleet
Badoeng Strait: Third Fleet, Pacific Fleet
Monterrey: Seventh Fleet, Asiatic Fleet
Saint-Thierry: Seventh Fleet, Asiatic Fleet
Brandywine: Fourth Fleet, Atlantic Fleet
Sedan: Fourth Fleet, Atlantic Fleet
Santa Cruz: Fourth Fleet, Atlantic Fleet
Bismarck Sea: Fourth Fleet, Atlantic Fleet
Cape St. George: Sixth Fleet, Mediterranean Fleet
Montfaucon: Sixth Fleet, Mediterranean Fleet
Escort Carriers
Taejon: First Fleet, Pacific Fleet
Saigon: Second Fleet, Atlantic Fleet
Ia Drang: Third Fleet, Pacific Fleet
Pusan: Fourth Fleet, Atlantic Fleet
Hollandia: Sixth Fleet, Mediterranean Fleet
Solomons: Seventh Fleet, Asiatic Fleet
Aitape: Reserve Fleet, Boston
Marcus Island: Reserve Fleet, San Francisco
Cape Gloucester: Reserve Fleet, San Diego
Vella Gulf: Reserve Fleet, Boston
Rendova: Reserve Fleet, New York
Mindoro: Reserve Fleet, San Diego
Gilbert Islands: Reserve Fleet, Philadelphia
Pyongyang: Reserve Fleet, Astoria
Hwachon: Reserve Fleet, Bremerton
Hungnam: Reserve Fleet, Charleston
Kangyye: Reserve Fleet, Philadelphia
Dak To: Reserve Fleet, Astoria
Amphibious Warships
7 Tarawa class LHANs
Tarawa: PHIBRON 2, Mediterranean
Belleau Wood: PHIBRON 5, Pacific
Peleliu: PHIBRON 6, Atlantic
Sicily: PHIBRON 1, Asiatic
Hue: PHIBRON 7, Pacific
Casablanca: PHIBRON 3, Asiatic
Da Nang: PHIBRON 8, Atlantic
Tinian: PHBRON 4, Mediterranean
(Under Construction Palau, Shibushi, Cherbourg)
12 Normandy class LHDs
Normandy: PHIBRON 1, Asiatic
Mindanao: PHIBRON 2, Mediterranean
Veracruz: PHIBRON 4, Mediterranean
Seoul: PHIBRON 3, Asiatic
Algiers: PHIBRON 12, Atlantic
Kagoshima: PHIBRON 11, Pacific
Chapultepec: PHIBRON 9, Pacific
Wonsan: PHIBRON 10, Atlantic
Salerno: PHIBRON 12, Atlantic
Lingayen: PHIBRON 11, Pacific
Angaur: PHIBRON 9, Pacific
Corregidor: PHIBRON 10, Atlantic
12 Inchon class LPHs
Inchon: PHIBRON 5, Pacific
Bataan: PHIBRON 7, Pacific
Saipan: PHIBRON 8, Atlantic
Chosin: PHIBRON 7, Pacific
Kwajalein: PHIBRON 12, Atlantic
Eniwetok: PHIBRON 6, Atlantic
Rabaul: PHIBRON 5, Pacific
Nassau: PHIBRON 8, Atlantic
Bougainville: PHIBRON 6, Atlantic
Wake Island: PHIBRON 12, Atlantic
Tulagi: PHIBRON 9, Pacific
Makin Island: PHIBRON 10, Atlantic
Aviation Support Carriers
Long Island: Seventh Fleet
Block Island: Sixth Fleet
Bogue: Fifth Fleet
Nantucket: Eighth Fleet
Breton: Fourth Fleet
Puget Sound: First Fleet
Currituck: Second Fleet
Croatan: Third Fleet
Where Are the Carriers (RN 1975)
Fleet Carriers
Singapore: Far Eastern Fleet
Malta: Training Carrier at HMNB Clyde
Gibraltar: Reserve Fleet at Rosyth
Africa: Reserve Fleet at Portsmouth
India: Reserve Fleet at Plymouth
Audacious: Grand Fleet
Irresistible: Far Eastern Fleet
Glorious: Maintenance and Overhaul at Swan Hunter
Courageous: Mediterranean Fleet
Ark Royal: Mediterranean Fleet
Eagle: Maintenance and Overhaul at Rosyth
Invincible: Grand Fleet
Hermes: Maintenance and Overhaul at Chatham
Victorious: Far Eastern Fleet
Formidable: Maintenance and Overhaul at Portsmouth
Illustrious: Mediterranean Fleet
Indomitable: Mediterranean Fleet
Indefatigable: Grand Fleet
Implacable: Grand Fleet
Incomparable: Grand Fleet (shakedown cruise)
Insuperable: To Commission February 1st 1976
Light Fleet Carriers
Mars: Atlantic Fleet
Arion: Refit at Plymouth
Pericles: Atlantic Fleet
Endymion: Grand Fleet
Perseus: Mediterranean Fleet
Colossus: Far Eastern Fleet
Ethalion: Grand Fleet
Hector: Refit at Plymouth
Agamemnon: Mediterranean Fleet
Alexander: Persian Gulf Station
Atlas: East Indies Station
Justinian: South Atlantic Station
(The twelve 40,000t light fleet ASW carriers/CVSLs entered service from the late 1960s, and are designed to carry an air wing of 16-24 Hawker-Siddeley Harriers, 16-24 Westland Sea Kings and 12 Fairey Rotodynes in a predominantly ASW mission with secondary air defence and strike capabilities). They bear something of a passing resemblance in role to the @ Invincibles and the proposed USN VSTOL Support Ship of the 1970s.
Escort Carriers
Audacity: Reserve Fleet
Activity: Reserve Fleet
Ability: Mediterranean Fleet
Asperity: Reserve Fleet
Admirable: Grand Fleet
Assurance: Reserve Fleet
Atheling: Reserve Fleet
Association: Far Eastern Fleet
Argosy: Reserve Fleet
Atlantis: Reserve Fleet
Ascania: Reserve Fleet
Advantage: Atlantic Fleet
Only four escort carriers are kept in full commission at any one time during peacetime, serving as aviation training vessels and fleet support/communications ships. The 24,000t CVHEs can carry up to 12 Harriers and 24 helicopters or Rotodynes, depending on their mission; their mobilisation role is trade protection, predominantly with the Atlantic Fleet.
Commando Carriers
Ocean: Far Eastern Fleet
Theseus: Mediterranean Fleet
Albion: Grand Fleet
Bulwark: Grand Fleet
The Ocean class atomic powered commando carriers/amphibious assault ships are 72,000-80,000t ships developed from on the preliminary versions of the Audacious class hull design that have been heavily redesigned around an air wing of Hawker-Siddeley Harriers, Fairey Rotodynes and Westland Sea King Commando assault helicopters (carrying 24, 32 and 48) and a reinforced amphibious task force of 2500 Royal Marines.
Remarkable: Overhaul and Maintenance at Gibraltar
Spectacular: Grand Fleet
Sans Pareil: Far Eastern Fleet (detached to East Indies)
Inflexible: Undergoing Maintenance at Portsmouth
Reliant: Mediterranean Fleet
Radiant: Far Eastern Fleet
Telamon: Atlantic Fleet
Hercules: Grand Fleet (working up)
(Goliath, Canopus under construction)
The 48,000t conventionally powered commando carriers are the backbone of the Royal Navy's amphibious force, typically carrying 12-16 Harriers and 24-36 helicopters and Rotodynes, depending on their deployment.
Aviation Support Carriers
Engadine: Pacific Station
Campania: South Atlantic Station
Athenian: East Indies Station
Vindex: West Indies and North America Station
The Engadine class are light 36,000t utility helicopter carriers/aviation support vessels (looking like a cross between RFA Argus and a Moskva) that have a capacity for 24 rotodynes/heavy helicopters or 40 medium helicopters. They were ordered in the late 1960s rearmament period to provide rotary aviation support to various distant Imperial stations, with a wartime mission supporting ASW operations around the Floating Fortress lines in the North Atlantic.
Fleet Carriers
Midway: Seventh Fleet, Asiatic Fleet (Subic Bay)
Franklin D. Roosevelt: Pacific Reserve Fleet, Bremerton
Coral Sea: First Fleet, Pacific Fleet (Pearl Harbor)
Iwo Jima: Atlantic Reserve Fleet, Boston
Okinawa: Training Carrier, Pacific Fleet
Guadalcanal: Training Carrier, Atlantic Fleet
Tripoli: Second Fleet, Atlantic Fleet (Mayport)
New Orleans: Sixth Fleet, Mediterranean (Nice)
United States: Second Fleet, Atlantic Fleet (Norfolk)
America: Regular Overhaul and Maintenance, Philadelphia (To Complete 4/76, then Atlantic Fleet)
Independence: First Fleet, Pacific Fleet (San Diego)
Ranger: Complex Overhaul and Maintenance, Norfolk (To Complete 11/77, then Mediterranean Fleet)
Saratoga: Sixth Fleet, Mediterranean (Nice)
Chesapeake: Complex Overhaul and Maintenance, Bremerton (To Complete 9/78, then Pacific Fleet)
Constellation: Regular Overhaul and Maintenance, Pearl Harbor (To Complete 7/76, then Asiatic Fleet)
Kitty Hawk: First Fleet, Pacific Fleet (San Diego)
Enterprise: Second Fleet, Atlantic Fleet (Norfolk)
Langley: Service Life Extension Programme, New York (To Complete 5/78, then Atlantic Fleet)
Princeton: Complex Overhaul and Maintenance, San Diego (To Complete 8/77, then Pacific Fleet)
Intrepid: Regular Overhaul and Maintenance, Bremerton (To Complete 4/76, then Atlantic Fleet)
Hornet: Seventh Fleet, Asiatic Fleet (Subic Bay)
Wasp: Eighth Fleet (Roosevelt Roads, Porto Rico)
Yorktown: Seventh Fleet, Asiatic Fleet (Subic Bay)
Lexington: Sixth Fleet, Mediterranean (Nice)
Gettysburg: Regular Overhaul and Maintenance, Norfolk (To Complete 9/76, then Atlantic Fleet)
Essex: Seventh Fleet, Asiatic Fleet (Norfolk)
Kearsarge: Regular Overhaul and Maintenance, Boston (To Complete 6/76, then Mediterranean Fleet)
Franklin: Fifth Fleet (Bombay)
Ticonderoga: First Fleet, Pacific Fleet (San Diego)
Shiloh: Second Fleet, Atlantic Fleet (Norfolk)
Bunker Hill: Sixth Fleet, Mediterranean (Nice)
Valley Forge: Working Up with Pacific Fleet, San Diego (To Complete 8/76, then Pacific Fleet)
Under Construction
Philippine Sea: LD September 17 1969 (Newport News Shipbuilding), Launched June 30 1973, Due to Commission June 18 1976
Antietam: LD March 24 1970 (New York Shipbuilding Corporation), Launched October 14 1974, Due to Commission July 1977
Khe Sanh: LD August 27 1971 (American Shipbuilding Corporation), Launched January 31 1975, Due to Commission February 1978
Leyte Gulf: LD February 19 1972 (Bethlehem SB Fore River), Launched September 1st 1975, Due to Commission April 1979
Bonhomme Richard: LD July 25 1973 (Newport News Shipbuilding), Launched November 3rd 1976, Due to Commission January 1980
Port Royal: LD May 4 1973 (New York Navy Shipyard), Due to Launch August 1976, Due to Commission September 1980
Oriskany: LD June 1 1974 (Philadelphia Navy Shipyard), Due to Launch September 1977, Due to Commission August 1981
Reprisal: LD April 23 1975 (Long Beach Navy Shipyard), Due to Launch December 1978, Due to Commission November 1982
Light Fleet Carriers
Alliance: Reserve Fleet, Boston
Shangri-La: Reserve Fleet, Charleston
Manila Bay: Reserve Fleet, Norfolk
Cowpens: Reserve Fleet, New York
Bastogne: Reserve Fleet, Astoria
Chancellorsville: Reserve Fleet, San Diego
Vicksburg: Reserve Fleet, Long Beach
Tassafaronga: Reserve Fleet, Bremerton
Bennington: Training Carrier, Atlantic Fleet
Hancock: Training Carrier, Atlantic Fleet
San Jacinto: Training Carrier, Pacific Fleet
Vincennes: Training Carrier, Pacific Fleet
Anzio: Third Fleet, Pacific Fleet
Randolph: Third Fleet, Pacific Fleet
Cape Esperance: Third Fleet, Pacific Fleet
Badoeng Strait: Third Fleet, Pacific Fleet
Monterrey: Seventh Fleet, Asiatic Fleet
Saint-Thierry: Seventh Fleet, Asiatic Fleet
Brandywine: Fourth Fleet, Atlantic Fleet
Sedan: Fourth Fleet, Atlantic Fleet
Santa Cruz: Fourth Fleet, Atlantic Fleet
Bismarck Sea: Fourth Fleet, Atlantic Fleet
Cape St. George: Sixth Fleet, Mediterranean Fleet
Montfaucon: Sixth Fleet, Mediterranean Fleet
Escort Carriers
Taejon: First Fleet, Pacific Fleet
Saigon: Second Fleet, Atlantic Fleet
Ia Drang: Third Fleet, Pacific Fleet
Pusan: Fourth Fleet, Atlantic Fleet
Hollandia: Sixth Fleet, Mediterranean Fleet
Solomons: Seventh Fleet, Asiatic Fleet
Aitape: Reserve Fleet, Boston
Marcus Island: Reserve Fleet, San Francisco
Cape Gloucester: Reserve Fleet, San Diego
Vella Gulf: Reserve Fleet, Boston
Rendova: Reserve Fleet, New York
Mindoro: Reserve Fleet, San Diego
Gilbert Islands: Reserve Fleet, Philadelphia
Pyongyang: Reserve Fleet, Astoria
Hwachon: Reserve Fleet, Bremerton
Hungnam: Reserve Fleet, Charleston
Kangyye: Reserve Fleet, Philadelphia
Dak To: Reserve Fleet, Astoria
Amphibious Warships
7 Tarawa class LHANs
Tarawa: PHIBRON 2, Mediterranean
Belleau Wood: PHIBRON 5, Pacific
Peleliu: PHIBRON 6, Atlantic
Sicily: PHIBRON 1, Asiatic
Hue: PHIBRON 7, Pacific
Casablanca: PHIBRON 3, Asiatic
Da Nang: PHIBRON 8, Atlantic
Tinian: PHBRON 4, Mediterranean
(Under Construction Palau, Shibushi, Cherbourg)
12 Normandy class LHDs
Normandy: PHIBRON 1, Asiatic
Mindanao: PHIBRON 2, Mediterranean
Veracruz: PHIBRON 4, Mediterranean
Seoul: PHIBRON 3, Asiatic
Algiers: PHIBRON 12, Atlantic
Kagoshima: PHIBRON 11, Pacific
Chapultepec: PHIBRON 9, Pacific
Wonsan: PHIBRON 10, Atlantic
Salerno: PHIBRON 12, Atlantic
Lingayen: PHIBRON 11, Pacific
Angaur: PHIBRON 9, Pacific
Corregidor: PHIBRON 10, Atlantic
12 Inchon class LPHs
Inchon: PHIBRON 5, Pacific
Bataan: PHIBRON 7, Pacific
Saipan: PHIBRON 8, Atlantic
Chosin: PHIBRON 7, Pacific
Kwajalein: PHIBRON 12, Atlantic
Eniwetok: PHIBRON 6, Atlantic
Rabaul: PHIBRON 5, Pacific
Nassau: PHIBRON 8, Atlantic
Bougainville: PHIBRON 6, Atlantic
Wake Island: PHIBRON 12, Atlantic
Tulagi: PHIBRON 9, Pacific
Makin Island: PHIBRON 10, Atlantic
Aviation Support Carriers
Long Island: Seventh Fleet
Block Island: Sixth Fleet
Bogue: Fifth Fleet
Nantucket: Eighth Fleet
Breton: Fourth Fleet
Puget Sound: First Fleet
Currituck: Second Fleet
Croatan: Third Fleet
Where Are the Carriers (RN 1975)
Fleet Carriers
Singapore: Far Eastern Fleet
Malta: Training Carrier at HMNB Clyde
Gibraltar: Reserve Fleet at Rosyth
Africa: Reserve Fleet at Portsmouth
India: Reserve Fleet at Plymouth
Audacious: Grand Fleet
Irresistible: Far Eastern Fleet
Glorious: Maintenance and Overhaul at Swan Hunter
Courageous: Mediterranean Fleet
Ark Royal: Mediterranean Fleet
Eagle: Maintenance and Overhaul at Rosyth
Invincible: Grand Fleet
Hermes: Maintenance and Overhaul at Chatham
Victorious: Far Eastern Fleet
Formidable: Maintenance and Overhaul at Portsmouth
Illustrious: Mediterranean Fleet
Indomitable: Mediterranean Fleet
Indefatigable: Grand Fleet
Implacable: Grand Fleet
Incomparable: Grand Fleet (shakedown cruise)
Insuperable: To Commission February 1st 1976
Light Fleet Carriers
Mars: Atlantic Fleet
Arion: Refit at Plymouth
Pericles: Atlantic Fleet
Endymion: Grand Fleet
Perseus: Mediterranean Fleet
Colossus: Far Eastern Fleet
Ethalion: Grand Fleet
Hector: Refit at Plymouth
Agamemnon: Mediterranean Fleet
Alexander: Persian Gulf Station
Atlas: East Indies Station
Justinian: South Atlantic Station
(The twelve 40,000t light fleet ASW carriers/CVSLs entered service from the late 1960s, and are designed to carry an air wing of 16-24 Hawker-Siddeley Harriers, 16-24 Westland Sea Kings and 12 Fairey Rotodynes in a predominantly ASW mission with secondary air defence and strike capabilities). They bear something of a passing resemblance in role to the @ Invincibles and the proposed USN VSTOL Support Ship of the 1970s.
Escort Carriers
Audacity: Reserve Fleet
Activity: Reserve Fleet
Ability: Mediterranean Fleet
Asperity: Reserve Fleet
Admirable: Grand Fleet
Assurance: Reserve Fleet
Atheling: Reserve Fleet
Association: Far Eastern Fleet
Argosy: Reserve Fleet
Atlantis: Reserve Fleet
Ascania: Reserve Fleet
Advantage: Atlantic Fleet
Only four escort carriers are kept in full commission at any one time during peacetime, serving as aviation training vessels and fleet support/communications ships. The 24,000t CVHEs can carry up to 12 Harriers and 24 helicopters or Rotodynes, depending on their mission; their mobilisation role is trade protection, predominantly with the Atlantic Fleet.
Commando Carriers
Ocean: Far Eastern Fleet
Theseus: Mediterranean Fleet
Albion: Grand Fleet
Bulwark: Grand Fleet
The Ocean class atomic powered commando carriers/amphibious assault ships are 72,000-80,000t ships developed from on the preliminary versions of the Audacious class hull design that have been heavily redesigned around an air wing of Hawker-Siddeley Harriers, Fairey Rotodynes and Westland Sea King Commando assault helicopters (carrying 24, 32 and 48) and a reinforced amphibious task force of 2500 Royal Marines.
Remarkable: Overhaul and Maintenance at Gibraltar
Spectacular: Grand Fleet
Sans Pareil: Far Eastern Fleet (detached to East Indies)
Inflexible: Undergoing Maintenance at Portsmouth
Reliant: Mediterranean Fleet
Radiant: Far Eastern Fleet
Telamon: Atlantic Fleet
Hercules: Grand Fleet (working up)
(Goliath, Canopus under construction)
The 48,000t conventionally powered commando carriers are the backbone of the Royal Navy's amphibious force, typically carrying 12-16 Harriers and 24-36 helicopters and Rotodynes, depending on their deployment.
Aviation Support Carriers
Engadine: Pacific Station
Campania: South Atlantic Station
Athenian: East Indies Station
Vindex: West Indies and North America Station
The Engadine class are light 36,000t utility helicopter carriers/aviation support vessels (looking like a cross between RFA Argus and a Moskva) that have a capacity for 24 rotodynes/heavy helicopters or 40 medium helicopters. They were ordered in the late 1960s rearmament period to provide rotary aviation support to various distant Imperial stations, with a wartime mission supporting ASW operations around the Floating Fortress lines in the North Atlantic.
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Belushi TD
- Posts: 1504
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:20 am
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Hmmm... A few questions so I can get the carriers fixed in my head properly.
The 8 carriers that start with Midway are fairly similar to the Midway class IOTL?
The 8 that start with United States are similar to our late 50's Forrestal class?
The 16 that start with Enterprise are similar to our CVN Enterprise?
It takes 7 years to build a carrier in the DE universe? For some reason I expected it to take a lot less time due to magic and such.
The ones called "light fleet carriers" are similar to OTL's Essex class? I suggest that because I recognize a bunch of the names as ones that were originally proposed, and then changed from OTL.
Escort carriers are similar to OTL's light fleet carriers, like the independence class, or are they larger? Judging by the tiny data dump in the RN section, they should be larger?
Aviation support carriers? Do they support as in training, not unlike USS Sable, or support like Shinano was supposed to be, with lots of workshops to repair planes and send them back to the front line? Or something different? Helicopters/rotodynes?
The RN's fleet carriers look suspiciously like the proposed Malta and QE classes along with a follow on class that probably has no equivalent in OTL.
Belushi TD
The 8 carriers that start with Midway are fairly similar to the Midway class IOTL?
The 8 that start with United States are similar to our late 50's Forrestal class?
The 16 that start with Enterprise are similar to our CVN Enterprise?
It takes 7 years to build a carrier in the DE universe? For some reason I expected it to take a lot less time due to magic and such.
The ones called "light fleet carriers" are similar to OTL's Essex class? I suggest that because I recognize a bunch of the names as ones that were originally proposed, and then changed from OTL.
Escort carriers are similar to OTL's light fleet carriers, like the independence class, or are they larger? Judging by the tiny data dump in the RN section, they should be larger?
Aviation support carriers? Do they support as in training, not unlike USS Sable, or support like Shinano was supposed to be, with lots of workshops to repair planes and send them back to the front line? Or something different? Helicopters/rotodynes?
The RN's fleet carriers look suspiciously like the proposed Malta and QE classes along with a follow on class that probably has no equivalent in OTL.
Belushi TD
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Simon Darkshade
- Posts: 1671
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:55 am
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
Some general reflections on the world situation as of 1975 and beyond looking ahead:
- Economic rebound and real growth has continued across the West. The US leads the way in GDP/capita, followed by New Zealand, Britain, Denmark, Australia, New Avalon, Germany, Israel, Switzerland and Sweden
- American GDP per capita of $9487.27 and the British figure of £2105 mean that, for the average worker in the broad middle class, around 25-30% of that figure is available for savings and discretionary expenses, and this figure is likely to continue to increase should inflation remain under control, with flow on effects on food and transport costs
- Productivity is now starting to noticeably increase in leading countries where the combination of robotics, advanced machine tools, computers, computer aided design and emergent technologies is present. This is likely to see a boost in the number of cars produced per worker, or the amount of steel produced, as well as the production of more valued added products of greater sophistication
- Magitech continues to develop in parallel to ET, and the combination of this will make for some extremely interesting developments
- This is likely to see a greater degree of domestic consumption in both countries, and in other First World nations, and some consumer goods will drop in relative price, such as televisions, video players, computers, motor cars and smaller combined radio and cassette players (not quite our @ boomboxes)
- General health is quite markedly better, with longer life expectancies and many illnesses and diseases absent. Obesity rates are under half those of OTL 1975, which were already small, and public fitness trends are becoming notable, such as cycling, jogging, weight-lifting and even aerobics/calisthenics/gymnastics
- International travel is increasing, with air travel having overtaken sea travel in terms of raw numbers, and both seeing noticeably decent levels of comfort. Aircraft hijacking has almost entirely been made obsolete by concerted anti-terrorist policies and forces
- There will likely be a greater push for women's labour rights and improvements to employment conditions as part of an effort to get more women in the workforce as far as is possible
- As mentioned in 1974, there is a distinctly different tone and mood moving into 1976 in Britain, the USA, Canada, Australia and beyond: one of optimism, self assurance, national confidence and general strength. This extends to the political, social, economic, strategic, military and cultural spheres
- In Britain, there is a strong sense that her institutions are solid and all pulling in the same direction, from the Royal Family and the Crown at the top through Parliament and the Church of England, the Civil Service and the judiciary, the Armed Forces and the police, academia and the BBC to the trade unions, industry, business, the national corporations (such as British Railways) and the vast ranks of civil society. One institution that isn't quite so high in profile in the National Health Service, which hasn't yet risen to the levels of relative esteem and late 20th/early 21st century outright hagiography; there isn't particularly a place for a substitute civil religion when actual religion is still strong
- At the same time, the states of Africa, the Middle East, Africa and the Orient are starting to close some of the gap between them and the First World, relatively speaking
- By the end of 1976, the combined GDP of the Arab Union (Arabia, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and the Yemen) is going be above that of Mexico, or $1200 million in 1990 USD, with Ottoman Turkey and Qajar Persia not far behind them. They have absolutely come a long way from two decades ago
- There has yet been what I'd describe as The Great Merger in cultural terms, which by our 1975 had seen a general Western sense of fashion (blue jeans, T-shirts and increasingly casual style as one manifestation thereof), food and drink (soft drinks, Americanised fast food and the internationalisation of certain dishes whereby pasta became an 'everywhere dish'), music (rock and roll music, which I may have mentioned once or twice before) and other aspects. If I had to draw a comparison with an OTL situation, I'd raise up the example of 1960 Japan, which still had a reasonably distinct culture of its own despite having general Western dress
- When you might travel from country to country, there will be a much firmer sense of difference in many cases
- The Space Race is still going strong, adding to something of the feel of a long 1960s in this regard, along with the certain sense of wonder and exploration
- Western military forces are markedly larger, even accounting for population. For example, the 1975 Bundeswehr had a peacetime strength of 495,000 from a population of 78.67 million or 0.63%; here, they have just over 3 million personnel from a population of 210,365,097 or 1.43%. Britain has 3,425,730 from 162,954,887 for 2.1% compared to their historical 0.6%. The United States has 7,507,342 and 1.93% compared to 2.1 million and 0.99%. Canada, Austria-Hungary and France both have around ~ 2%. General defence spending hasn't been on the decline
- Looking ahead to the elections of 1976, it doesn't seem likely at this point that there would be reasonable grounds for President Reagan not to be re-elected, particularly with the added enthusiasm of the New York City Olympics and Bicentenary leading into the November election. In Britain, there does appear to be a bit of a strange combination of an appetite for something different, but also a popular PM, sound government and a lack of a great deal of policy difference between the Conservative Opposition and Labour Government
- Amid all the apparent good news, there just seem to be flashes of hints of trouble just on the fringes, or just under the general level of popular knowledge. Ireland, albeit in very different circumstances, general Red terrorism, the Middle East enigma, a disunited Europe, South America and the evolving situation in Africa are the obvious areas, but there are others which have been slipped in under the radar. As well as those, there is China
- Economic rebound and real growth has continued across the West. The US leads the way in GDP/capita, followed by New Zealand, Britain, Denmark, Australia, New Avalon, Germany, Israel, Switzerland and Sweden
- American GDP per capita of $9487.27 and the British figure of £2105 mean that, for the average worker in the broad middle class, around 25-30% of that figure is available for savings and discretionary expenses, and this figure is likely to continue to increase should inflation remain under control, with flow on effects on food and transport costs
- Productivity is now starting to noticeably increase in leading countries where the combination of robotics, advanced machine tools, computers, computer aided design and emergent technologies is present. This is likely to see a boost in the number of cars produced per worker, or the amount of steel produced, as well as the production of more valued added products of greater sophistication
- Magitech continues to develop in parallel to ET, and the combination of this will make for some extremely interesting developments
- This is likely to see a greater degree of domestic consumption in both countries, and in other First World nations, and some consumer goods will drop in relative price, such as televisions, video players, computers, motor cars and smaller combined radio and cassette players (not quite our @ boomboxes)
- General health is quite markedly better, with longer life expectancies and many illnesses and diseases absent. Obesity rates are under half those of OTL 1975, which were already small, and public fitness trends are becoming notable, such as cycling, jogging, weight-lifting and even aerobics/calisthenics/gymnastics
- International travel is increasing, with air travel having overtaken sea travel in terms of raw numbers, and both seeing noticeably decent levels of comfort. Aircraft hijacking has almost entirely been made obsolete by concerted anti-terrorist policies and forces
- There will likely be a greater push for women's labour rights and improvements to employment conditions as part of an effort to get more women in the workforce as far as is possible
- As mentioned in 1974, there is a distinctly different tone and mood moving into 1976 in Britain, the USA, Canada, Australia and beyond: one of optimism, self assurance, national confidence and general strength. This extends to the political, social, economic, strategic, military and cultural spheres
- In Britain, there is a strong sense that her institutions are solid and all pulling in the same direction, from the Royal Family and the Crown at the top through Parliament and the Church of England, the Civil Service and the judiciary, the Armed Forces and the police, academia and the BBC to the trade unions, industry, business, the national corporations (such as British Railways) and the vast ranks of civil society. One institution that isn't quite so high in profile in the National Health Service, which hasn't yet risen to the levels of relative esteem and late 20th/early 21st century outright hagiography; there isn't particularly a place for a substitute civil religion when actual religion is still strong
- At the same time, the states of Africa, the Middle East, Africa and the Orient are starting to close some of the gap between them and the First World, relatively speaking
- By the end of 1976, the combined GDP of the Arab Union (Arabia, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and the Yemen) is going be above that of Mexico, or $1200 million in 1990 USD, with Ottoman Turkey and Qajar Persia not far behind them. They have absolutely come a long way from two decades ago
- There has yet been what I'd describe as The Great Merger in cultural terms, which by our 1975 had seen a general Western sense of fashion (blue jeans, T-shirts and increasingly casual style as one manifestation thereof), food and drink (soft drinks, Americanised fast food and the internationalisation of certain dishes whereby pasta became an 'everywhere dish'), music (rock and roll music, which I may have mentioned once or twice before) and other aspects. If I had to draw a comparison with an OTL situation, I'd raise up the example of 1960 Japan, which still had a reasonably distinct culture of its own despite having general Western dress
- When you might travel from country to country, there will be a much firmer sense of difference in many cases
- The Space Race is still going strong, adding to something of the feel of a long 1960s in this regard, along with the certain sense of wonder and exploration
- Western military forces are markedly larger, even accounting for population. For example, the 1975 Bundeswehr had a peacetime strength of 495,000 from a population of 78.67 million or 0.63%; here, they have just over 3 million personnel from a population of 210,365,097 or 1.43%. Britain has 3,425,730 from 162,954,887 for 2.1% compared to their historical 0.6%. The United States has 7,507,342 and 1.93% compared to 2.1 million and 0.99%. Canada, Austria-Hungary and France both have around ~ 2%. General defence spending hasn't been on the decline
- Looking ahead to the elections of 1976, it doesn't seem likely at this point that there would be reasonable grounds for President Reagan not to be re-elected, particularly with the added enthusiasm of the New York City Olympics and Bicentenary leading into the November election. In Britain, there does appear to be a bit of a strange combination of an appetite for something different, but also a popular PM, sound government and a lack of a great deal of policy difference between the Conservative Opposition and Labour Government
- Amid all the apparent good news, there just seem to be flashes of hints of trouble just on the fringes, or just under the general level of popular knowledge. Ireland, albeit in very different circumstances, general Red terrorism, the Middle East enigma, a disunited Europe, South America and the evolving situation in Africa are the obvious areas, but there are others which have been slipped in under the radar. As well as those, there is China
-
Simon Darkshade
- Posts: 1671
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:55 am
Re: Dark Earth Timeline Discussion
1.) The 8 Midway class CVBs are a bit larger than our Midways: 69,000t, 1030ft x 132.5ft/236ft x 36ft, 96 aircraft, 48 Sea Mauler, 12 x 5”/62, 34ktsBelushi TD wrote: ↑Thu Nov 13, 2025 1:37 pm Hmmm... A few questions so I can get the carriers fixed in my head properly.
The 8 carriers that start with Midway are fairly similar to the Midway class IOTL?
The 8 that start with United States are similar to our late 50's Forrestal class?
The 16 that start with Enterprise are similar to our CVN Enterprise?
It takes 7 years to build a carrier in the DE universe? For some reason I expected it to take a lot less time due to magic and such.
The ones called "light fleet carriers" are similar to OTL's Essex class? I suggest that because I recognize a bunch of the names as ones that were originally proposed, and then changed from OTL.
Escort carriers are similar to OTL's light fleet carriers, like the independence class, or are they larger? Judging by the tiny data dump in the RN section, they should be larger?
Aviation support carriers? Do they support as in training, not unlike USS Sable, or support like Shinano was supposed to be, with lots of workshops to repair planes and send them back to the front line? Or something different? Helicopters/rotodynes?
The RN's fleet carriers look suspiciously like the proposed Malta and QE classes along with a follow on class that probably has no equivalent in OTL.
Belushi TD
(60,000t, 968ft x 136ft x 33ft, 84 aircraft, 14-18 x 5", 33kts)
2.) The 8 United States class CVAs are again rather larger: 96,000t, 1179ft x 140ft/254ft x 38ft, 124 aircraft, 2 Legion CWS, 64 Sea Mauler, 34kts
(Historical 82,000t, 1069ft x 129ft/238ft x 36ft, 84 aircraft, 8 x 5", 34kts)
3.) There were 12 Enterprises: 129,000t, 1284ft x 152ft/287ft x 40ft, 124 aircraft, 4 Legion CWS, 48 Terrier, 96 Sea Mauler, 34kts
(Historical 93,284t, 1123ft x 132.8ft/257.2ft x 39ft, 90 aircraft, 4 x Terrier (planned)
They are followed by the 4 Ticonderogas, which are around 50% larger than the Enterprises in displacement
196,000t, 1529ft x 160ft/300ft x 42ft
July 10 1972: Commissioning of the 12th and final vessel in the Enterprise class of nuclear aircraft carriers, USS Franklin, bringing the USN once again to an active strength of 28 fleet aircraft carriers, along with 10 anti submarine light aircraft carriers and 10 escort carriers. Four new CVANs of the successor Ticonderoga class (Shiloh, Bunker Hill, Valley Forge and Ticonderoga) are under construction with a further four ordered (Philippine Sea, Antietam, Khe Sanh and Leyte Gulf) ordered, with Ticonderoga due to commission in November. The Ticonderogas are larger than their older sisters, carry a range of new missile and gun systems as well as increased ammunition stocks and field the world’s largest carrier air groups.
(12 Enterprises seems a lot, but takes the historical intent for 6 CVAN-65s in @ and then extends it out further over the 1960s where there was a historical gap in US carrier construction. Here, Franklin was laid down in 1968. The Ticonderogas following them are the equivalent to the Nimitz class CVNs of @; no carriers apart from FDR have been named after politicians or admirals, messing up the nomenclature. The Nimitz class DDGs will be a Kidd/Tico class equivalent built in Spruance numbers)
4.) The 7 year figure (more like 6 and a bit for most) is for all parts of a big, big ship, including the nuclear reactors, missiles, radars and all systems. It is broadly analogous to the time taken for Nimitz, Ike and Carl Vinson historically, and the time it takes is one reason that some Congresscritters are asking about slightly smaller conventional CVV (well, the DE equivalent) type ships. Friction.
5.) They are new construction 1960s ships similar to the British ones (very similar, to the extent that the designs were prepared in parallel), so are around the 40,000t level, with much the same air group mix of 16-24 Harriers, 16-24 Sea Kings and 12 Rotodynes. They were built to replace the aging Essex CVSs.
6.) The escort carriers are similar 1960s builds to fill the role of CVHE for escort purposes, coming from joint discussions that started back in 1960. Their basic role is for ASW and helicopter training, testing the same fleet support role as the RN, and providing for humanitarian support in a lot of cases where there is an earthquake in Portugal or a flood in Colombia, for example.
7.) Similar to the RN ships, these are training vessels and helicopter transports akin to this ship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RFA_Argus_(A135)
They are employed to transport helicopter squadrons hither and thither as part of a heavy global USN presence.
8.) The RN ships consist of
5 Maltas (72,000t, 1000ft x 135.4ft/240ft x 36.5ft, 84 aircraft, 48 Sea Cat, 24 x 3.75”, 34kts as of 1960)
4 Audacious class CVAs (89,000t, 1120ft x 142ft/254ft x 38ft, 120 aircraft, 64 Sea Cat, 24 x 3.75”, 34kts in 1960) which are broadly the equivalent of the 1952 carriers in timing and the Forrestal class in dimension and role; and
6 Ark Royal class CVNs (125,000t, 1256ft x 149ft/284ft x 39ft, 124 aircraft, 4 Legion CWS, 96 Templar, 64 Sea Cat, 16 x 3.75”. 34kts), which were built since 1959-65
4 Illustrious class CVNs (essentially repeat Ark Royals with incremental modifications) 1967-1973
2 Incomparables
A Very, Very Brief History of RN Atomic Supercarriers
Ark Royal: LD February 2 1956 (John Brown), Launched September 23 1958, Commissioned December 20 1959
Eagle: LD March 30 1956 (Armstrong-Whitworth), Launched January 24 1959, Commissioned April 29 1960
Invincible: LD April 24 1957 (Cammell-Laird), Launched November 2 1959, Commissioned February 23 1961
Hermes: LD June 12 1957 (Vickers), Launched December 13 1959, Commissioned June 25 1961
Victorious: LD April 23 1959 (Harland & Wolff), Launched March 16 1962, Commissioned August 30 1964
Formidable: LD May 1 1960 (John Brown), Launched August 1 1963, Commissioned November 29 1965
Illustrious: LD April 15 1967 (Beardmores), Launched March 19 1970, Commissioned December 13 1971
Indomitable: LD May 29 1967 (Swan Hunter), Launched May 2 1970, Commissioned November 29 1971
Indefatigable: LD March 4 1968 (Fairfield), Launched July 28 1971, Commissioned October 4 1973
Implacable: LD April 29 1968 (Harland & Wolff), Launched September 19 1971, Commissioned November 6 1973
Incomparable: LD May 5 1969 (Armstrong-Whitworth), Launched December 3 1972, Due to Commission November 1975
Insuperable: LD June 4 1969 (Cammell-Laird), Launched May 17 1973, Due to Commission February 1976
Unicorn: LD February 24 1970 (John Brown), Launched March 29 1974, Due to Commission Late 1976/Early 1977
Centaur: LD April 18 1971 (Swan Hunter), Due to Launch Mid 1975 and Commission Mid 1977
Pegasus: LD March 10 1972 (Vickers), Due to Launch 1976
Leviathan: LD April 25 1972 (Armstrong Whitworth), Due to Launch 1976
Ordered:
The 4 Majestic class carriers, to be built between 1974 and 1982, are to replace the Malta class in service, allowing the Audacious class to shift into their reserve/training/second line niche
Majestic: To be laid down 1974 (John Brown)
Triumph: To be laid down 1975 (Harland & Wolff)
Argus: To be laid down 1976 (Beardmores)
Furious: To be laid down 1976 (Yarrow, Haven)