The Last War: 353

The long and short stories of 'The Last War' by Jan Niemczyk and others
Post Reply
Bernard Woolley
Posts: 791
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 4:06 pm
Location: Earth

The Last War: 353

Post by Bernard Woolley »

D+22

*

1146 hours GMT. West of Göttingen, FRG.
The nondescript M113 APC halted besides the ‘tac H.Q’ of the 5e Régiment de Lanciers. To the surprise of the sentries, none other than Lieutenant General Xavier Dehaese himself stepped out of the vehicle. They were clear headed enough not to salute, as there was a good chance that enemy snipers might still be around.

“General, Sir. I…uh…we were not expecting you…” The Lieutenant Colonel who commanded the regiment stuttered in surprise as Dehaese strode towards the latter’s command vehicles.
“That was the idea, Colonel Lambert.” The general replied curtly. “We need to talk, follow me.”

The general’s aides and the colonel’s staff watched anxiously from a distance as the two men walked away. Dehaese made sure his back was turned to the spectators before he began to speak.

“Colonel, I spent a rather unpleasant hour speaking to General Horne this morning. He was rather unhappy about our progress in covering our British neighbour’s right flank. Or rather our lack of progress. The Brits are not advancing particularly fast, but their rightmost brigade is finding that its flank is becoming exposed.
“I have spent the rest of the morning spreading the good cheer to Generals Maes and Dubois, before deciding I needed to see for myself what’s going on at the front. Now, Colonel Lambert, you have under your command, one of the best equipped and trained battalion sized forces in the Belgian Army. Why are we still on the western bank of the Leine, when the British are well over the other side and the way they are going will be over the Aller in not too long? I want to know why my orders to keep touch with the British have apparently been interpreted as suggestions.”
“Can I speak honestly, Sir?” Lambert asked.

Dehaese nodded.

“Thank you, Sir.
“While this of course does not apply to my men, I get the impression that the corps is still in a degree of shock after the Soviet attack. Two whole brigades were effectively destroyed and the rest of the divisions badly shaken. I think that for a lot of soldiers, from division down, that they don’t really want to risk their lives when they are sandwiched between two much more powerful corps. Those two corps belong to larger countries than Belgium, who can more afford the casualties than we can.
“In short, General, the feeling is that why should be push ourselves too hard when the enemy will have to retreat in the face of British and West German advances. Once the enemy begins to fall back, we can follow up and take fewer casualties.”

The general thought for a moment.

“Perhaps it is understandable after our recent experience that we want others to do the fighting for a change. However, Colonel, that cannot stand. We cannot sit on the side-lines. What would your prescription be?”
“A successful offensive of some kind, Sir.” Lambert replied. “Doesn’t have to be particularly big, just large enough to prove we can beat the Soviets in a pitched battle.”
“Thank you, Colonel. I won’t take up any more of your time.”

*

As Dehaese flew back to his forward headquarters he had a lot to think about. Lieutenant Colonel Lambert’s suggestion had tracked with what he had been thinking. He needed to get his corps across the river Leine and an assault crossing would certainly provide the opportunity to defeat the enemy. Thankfully, the freshest brigades in the Corps, 8 ème Brigade Blindée and 4de Pantserbrigade, were in neighbouring sectors. Albeit attached to different divisions. If they could force a crossing, then the rest of his two divisions could follow.

He wished he still had the French 10e Division Blindée under his command, but it had returned to CENCENT Reserve. On the other hand, a wholly Belgian victory would be quite the fillip for morale. [1]

1151 hours GMT. Outside Catembe, Mozambique.
Behind the SABC reporter was a prominent road sign that advised – ‘Maputo 9km’. Also very visible was a South African Army Rooikat that had taken up position in the centre of a roundabout.

“As you can see behind me, units of the South African Army have reached the outskirts of Maputo. Senior military figures have advised me that the army has paused to replenish before it mounts an advance on the Mozambiquan capital. However, there are also rumours that an unofficial armistice is currently in place while our government awaits a response from Mozambique to an offer for a more official cease-fire, pending negotiations to end hostilities.
“Whatever the truth, it appears that Mozambique is no longer able to stop South African forces from moving into Maputo.”


*

“Unofficial armistice my gat.” Kaptein Leopold Scholtz opined. “That stom esel doesn’t really know what they are talking about!”

The other officers and senior NCOs of Bravo Squadron, The Pretoria Regiment chuckled in reply.

“The current ‘Rules of Engagement’ remain in place – if it belongs to the enemy, shoot at it. Unless they are surrendering, of course. What our esteemed member of the Fourth Estate did get right, is that our government has sent a message to Maputo. Basically, either agree to our generous offer of a face-saving way out, or we’ll take out what’s left of your armed forces.
“The Colonel doesn’t think it’s been decided whether we’ll try and take Maputo itself. Personally, I doubt we have enough infantry to take a city of something like two million people. But I’m sure we can annoy the Mozambiquans enough.
“Okay then, girls, get back to your Troops and get ready for a resumption of operations. Whatever the Brass Hats decide to do.”

*

Off the coast, loitering over the horizon just to the northeast of Maputo, was a South African Naval Service task group formed of the auxiliaries Tafelberg, Drakensburg and Outeniqua, escorted by the frigates Amatola and Mendi, and the Offshore Patrol Craft Isaac Dhobya and Galeshewe.

The auxiliaries carried soldiers from 9 South African Infantry Regiment and Cape Town Rifles (Dukes), the army’s amphibious force. A detachment from 4 Special Forces Regiment was split between the frigates and two OPV. Mozambique had no navy to speak of, just some small patrol craft with minimal armament. So, the only real threat to the task group would come from enemy artillery, should it decide to close with the shore.

As the sun began to set the task group closed with the shore. Super Lynx helicopters from the frigates dropped off ‘Recce’ teams, while the OPVs sprinted in close inshore to drop off others. With the immediate area around the beach secure, Oryx helicopters from the auxiliaries began to land troops from the two infantry battalions, simultaneous with landing craft carrying more soldiers and heavy equipment.

To beef up its amphibious capabilities the SANS had bought two LCU Mark 9 from the UK, which were used to land four Rooikat. On their second lift, the LCU landed a pair of GV5 howitzers manned by gunners of the Transvaalse Staatsartillerie.

Within an hour the South Africans had established a small, well-protected beachhead. The first the Mozambican defenders knew of the arrival of the South Africans was when Oryx helicopters dropped troops to take the eastern side of a bridge over the Incomati River. The bridge lead to the north-eastern suburbs of Maputo itself.

The appearance of South African troops to the northeast of the capital caused panic in the Mozambican government. Unlike Zimbabwe, Mozambique did not have a significant number of Soviet, or other Warsaw Pact ‘advisors’, or combat formations in country. So, there was less to keep them ‘honest’. Even so, there was a fierce debate between those who wanted to accede to the South African offer of a negotiated peace, and those who favoured fighting on. The debate would last long into the night before a decision was taken. However, it was not soon enough to forestall the next series of events.

1153 hours GMT. Outer Helsinki Defence Line, Finland.
“My military service was one of the most formative experiences of my life. As I look back on my time in the army it reminds me of how precious our freedoms are, and how they are best defended as part of collective organisations, like NATO and the EU. Neutrality can never again be an option for Finland, and we must be ever watchful for threats to our democracy…
“Today, the women of Finland are subject to conscription and serve in all parts of the Finish Defence Force. Today, we help shoulder the duty of defending our nation. When I volunteered in 2005, that was not the case.”
- Sanna Mirella Marin, Prime Minister of Finland; from a speech to the Finnish Parliament in 2019.

*

Soldat Sanna Marin jumped down from the back of the truck, clutching her RK 62 rifle tightly. Six months ago, she had just graduated from secondary school and rather than go onto university, had instead decided to volunteer to join the Finnish Army. The Polish crisis had seen an uptick of young women volunteering to join the Finish Defence Force. [2]

Marin had spent the last twenty-one days attached to a Local Defence company under the command of 25 Brigade in Helsinki. The company’s job had been to guard vulnerable points and form part of the general defence of the capital. One of her most memorable jobs after the outbreak of war was to guard a bonfire on which copies of the Finnish-Soviet Treaty of 1948 were being symbolically burned. Marin had also learned how to drive an ancient Comet tank; forty-one of these Second World War era vehicles were being used in a semi-static rear area defence role.

Now increasing casualties amongst units manning the Helsinki Defence Line meant that Marin and other soldiers from 25 Brigade were sent as Battle Casualty Replacements to battalions in 36 Brigade.

As Marin and the other replacements assembled, she was not reassured by the fact that they were outside the remains of a building that had once been a butcher’s shop. Nor by the fact that they were led across a bridge clearly wired for destruction to the eastern bank of the river Svartån.

An Undersergeant directed the replacements to the foxholes and slit trenches they were to occupy. Marin and another replacement found that their slit trench was already occupied by a Korpral and a Sotamies. Both of whom looked exhausted.

“I’m Soldat…” She began to say.
“I don’t want to know your names.” The Korpral said wearily. “Not yet anyway. For the moment you’re Number 1.” He said, pointing to Marin. “And you’re Number 2.
“There’s some food in the bay if you want it.”

The slit trench was L shaped and partly revetted with corrugated iron, with doors from nearby buildings making up for a deficiency. Corrugated iron and more doors provided the base of the overhead cover, with sandbags and earth on top. The ‘bay’ formed by be dogleg of the L had a small smokeless cooker and some food, and water.

“It’s all meat!” Marin protested. “I’m a vegetarian.”
“So was I, Number 1.” The Korpral replied. “You’ve got the same choice as me; hold your nose and eat what there is or go hungry.”

Marin hesitated for a moment before picking up a sandwich and starting to eat it. She was no fan of the taste, but she was also hungry.

“We’ve got the Old Boy who owned the butcher’s shop to thank.” The Korpral commented. “He gave us what left of his stock before he cleared out.”
“Think he might still be around, Korpral.” The Sotamies commented. “Told me he had one of those ancient ‘Ukko-Pekka’ rifles and was going to get himself some Russians.” [3]
“Mad Old B*gger.”

The Korpral pointed to a low series of humps around two hundred meters in front of the slit trench, which had barbed wire in front of them.

“See those?”

Marin and the other soldier nodded.

“Good. They’re decoy positions. Hopefully the Russians will shoot seven bells of sh*t out of them instead of us when they next attack. By the way, don’t go anywhere near them – we’ve mined the sh*t out of them.”
“I don’t see any tanks, or other armoured vehicles, Korpral.” Marin commented.

The NCO chuckled.

“You won’t see many of them in this sector, Number 1. They’re all further south.
“Too many trees up here; didn’t stop the Russians trying to push some tanks through, though. Most of them are still in those trees over there; wouldn’t recommend going to have a look though!
“We might see some Swedish light armour if we get into trouble. Have heard that one of their infantry brigades has joined the armoured brigade. About damn time too!”

Before anyone else could say anything, there was the characteristic whoosh of incoming artillery.

“Take cover!” The Korpral yelled. “Looks like the Russians are sending you a welcome!” He said with a grin.

1159 hours GMT. REGAN Vest, near Støvring, northern Jutland.
“It’s been a pleasure, Ma’am. I will certainly ask that your regards be passed on to Her Majesty.” General Sir Nicholas Sumner as he left the accommodation of the Danish Queen.

*

CINCNORTH had visited the Danish government bunker, codenamed REGAN Vest several times before. However, he was still very impressed by it. From outside, there was very little to show, other than what appeared to be modest house. Yet, under the hill was a large two-level bunker complex that had been described as looking like a pair of John Lennon’s glasses from above. It was one of two bunkers meant to house the Danish government and Royal Family. The other, REGAN ØST (BOC2), was in Zealand and was believed to be in Soviet hands. [4]

Security at REGAN Vest always seemed low-key; only six police officers provided internal security in the bunker for example. External security was provided by an army guard company of 328 soldiers; Sumner had passed a VCP manned by eight of these soldiers, although they were generally out of sight amongst the trees. Members of the Police Home Guard formed a discrete outer perimeter further out. More troops would be able to respond rapidly to any ground threat to the complex. Moreover, the forest made conventional attack from the air very difficult.

The bunker currently held the Danish Prime Minister, part of her cabinet, the Queen, and some other members of her household. As well as administrative personnel. Others were accommodated in other bunkers across Jutland.

*

General Sumner was visiting REGAN Vest to give a general briefing to the Queen and a more detailed briefing to the PM and War Cabinet. He knew that the Danes were still pressing for an early liberation of Zealand. Yet, there was no real immediate prospect of it happening; Allied Forces Northern Europe just didn’t have the troops available. However, they did have a plan, which he could brief the Danish politicians on.

“Good afternoon, General Sumner.” Danish Prime Minister Birgitte Nyborg said as CINCNORTH entered the conference room. “I trust you are well.”
“I am, thank you, Prime Minister.”
“I hope you have some good news for us, General.” Nyborg observed.

Sumner cleared his throat.

“With your permission, Prime Minister, I’d like to brief you on Operation LION. Which is our current plan to liberate Zealand. I does depend on forces that are not currently in theatre, so I am not able to give you a timetable. However, things have become a lot better now that we have Swedish forces available.”
“So, you can’t really give us any news, General.” The Defence Minister said, taking advantage of Sumner pausing briefly.
“Give the General a chance to finish his briefing, Hans.” Nyborg said calmly. “Carry on, General.”
“Thank you, Prime Minister. If I may, I’d like to show you what we plan to do on the map on the wall to our right.”

The Prime Minister nodded her consent and Sumner got to his feet, crossing to the map.

“The initial part of the plan would be to land the American 82nd Airborne Division and the Canadian Airborne Regiment here, with the British 41 Commando, Royal Marines, landing here. That would give us an initial bridgehead on Zealand, into which we would move the 1st and 2nd Zealand Brigades and the 8th Canadian Brigade Group. This force would in the first twenty-four hours of LION make a demonstrative advance towards Copenhagen but would not actually intend to try and take the capital.”

Sumner could see that the faces around the Cabinet table looked a little puzzled and concerned. But he continued.

“We hope that this initial landing will draw off Soviet reserves in Zealand and keep them focused, because six hours later, the 101st Airborne Division and the Swedish Air Mobile Brigade will secure an air head here. At the other end of Zealand. Once the airhead is secure the American 10th Armoured Cavalry Regiment, 3rd Zealand Brigade and Swedish 13 Division will be transported into the lodgement. It will be this force that will actually move to liberate Copenhagen.
“At the same time that both landings are taking place, we hope to try to convince the Soviets that we plan to capture the Öresund crossing. Reports from Zealand suggest that the enemy has mined the tunnel sections, and we want him to continue to think that his plan hasn’t been revealed to us.
“Simultaneously with the landings, the Home Guard and Special Operations Forces in Zealand will carry out raids and other operations to disrupt Soviet forces. Operation LION will also be given priority for air support once underway. Which, of course, depends on what else is going on in the region.
“The French 11th Airborne Division will be held in reserve to reinforce as necessary.
“We do have a version of the plan that uses at least a brigade of US Marines to secure an expanded lodgement for the second landing. However, at the moment the only marines in theatre are occupied in northern Norway.”
“Thank you, General.” Nyborg said. “What chance would you give LION for success?”
“Around sixty/forty, Prime Minister.” Sumner replied simply.

Everybody around the cabinet table looked a little shocked, other than the Chief of Defence, General Helsø.

“Why so low, General?” The PM wondered.
“A lack of amphibious ships, Prime Minister.” CINCNORTH told her. “We can land the airborne and airmobile forces and the British marines rapidly enough, but at the moment we can’t land the heavier units particularly quickly. The first wave of Swedish troops would take at least forty-eight hours to land, for example.
“If we had the US Marines, we would be able to use their capabilities to land heavy forces far more quickly. As it is, I think the Soviets would be able to move their armoured troops to mount counterattacks before we could land our own. While I believe our light forces could hold their own, it would risk heavy casualties and at worse failure.”

The Prime Minister looked across at the Chief of Defence.

“Your thoughts, General Helsø.”
“General Sumner is correct, Prime Minister. The forces which would be used in the initial landings do have significant anti-tank capabilities as well as good artillery support. However, there is no substitute for tanks and other armoured vehicles. Especially when it comes to a rapid advance to liberate Copenhagen. I would not recommend authorising the plan in its current form. We need the US Marines, and they are not available at the moment.”
“Thank you, General Helsø.”

The PM turned back to General Sumner.

“Also, thank you, General Sumner. Having heard what you have told us, I cannot give Denmark’s support to LION at the moment. While we all want Zealand liberated, we want it to happen when there is a high chance of success.
“When do you believe that the US Marines may be available?”

Sumner considered that question.

“I don’t think I can give you more than a rough estimate, Prime Minister. I would not be confident in moving them south before more troops are in northern Norway. At least now that the Swedes are on our side, the northern flank is more secure. If you had to nail me down, I’d say no less than a week.”

Nyborg nodded her head in acceptance.

“I had hoped sooner, General. But thank you for your honesty.”

*

“How did it go, Sir?” Sumner aide asked.

The captain and, the two RMP NCOs who provided close protection for Sumner, had been required to wait in the caretaker’s house. Not having authorisation to enter the bunker.

“Yes, I think so.” CINCNORTH replied. “At least the Danes won’t pressure us to go off half-cock.”

1203 hours GMT. Dzerzhinsky, northern Baltic Sea.
“We’ve broken through the jamming, Comrade Captain.”
“Good, engage with Kinzhal.”

After the fiasco with the S-300s, Captain Sidorov had ordered a switch to a manual engagement. Unlike the computer system, the human operators had waited until they had found a clear radar frequency before starting the engagement.

“Be ready to switch frequencies again.” Sidorov instructed.

Dzerzhinsky began to shudder again as the first salvo of 3K95 Kinzhal. The battle-cruiser’s escorts had also begun to launch their own missiles. Sidorov watched on the repeater screen in front of his chair as the different sets of symbols marched towards each other. The screen was momentarily filled with snow as the enemy found the frequency the battlecruiser’s radars were operating on. However, it cleared as operators switched frequency again.

“Well done, Comrades. Keep it up.”

*

The supersonic Kormoran 2 and HARM missiles had by now caught-up with the subsonic Sea Eagles and began to overtake them. On land, SAM operators on recognising an anti-radiation missile would shut down their radar and hope the missile did not have memory function. That was not really an option at sea when a warship was also under attack by anti-ship missiles. Instead, the Soviet warships were forced to initially prioritise the incoming HARM missiles.

Most of the incoming HARMs were shot down, however, enough got through to hit their targets. Several escorts and Dzerzhinsky lost radars. For the smaller warships, this was critical, but the battlecruiser was able to switch to secondary radar aerials, although it did cause a brief delay in the missile engagement sequence.

With air defence hampered, some of the NATO anti-ship missiles were able to penetrate the outer screen of the group without being engaged. The destroyer Bespokoyny was the first vessel to suffer. He was swarmed by several missiles coming in from different points of the compass. While the destroyer was able to shoot down many of the missiles, one of the CWIS mounts destroyed a Sea Eagle missile only twenty meters away from the ship. Bespokoyny was spattered by fragments and burning missile fuel, which was enough to briefly take the fire-control system off-line, leaving the four AK-630 CIWS mounts as his only defence. One of the mounts was able to destroy a Kormoran 2, but seconds later, Bespokoyny was hit by two RBS-15, followed by a Sea Eagle and a Kormoran 2.

*

Bespokoyny has blown up, Comrade Captain.” A dejected voice in the Operations Room reported. “Nepristupnyi is on fire.”
“We have at least ten missiles targeted on us, Comrade Captain.”
Kortik is engaging, Comrade Captain.”

Sidorov let the reports wash over him. He had already ordered chaff launched and the ship’s jammers activated and there was now not much more he could do. He calmly watched as the number of missiles targeted on his ship were reduced by the Kinzhal missiles and Kortik CWIS. He could see that a few were going to ‘leak’ through and took a last sip of tea.

“Sound the collision alarm.”

*

A Kormoran 2 struck Dzerzhinsky just below the bridge, on the starboard side. Its 230Kg warhead destroyed the Flag Plot, killing the admiral and his staff. Most of the crew on the bridge were also killed, or seriously injured. A Sea Eagle missile struck forward on the starboard side, aft of the bow. Much of the explosive force of its warhead was vented up through now empty VLS tubes, however, a serious fire was started near the tubes containing the twenty P-700 Granit missiles. Finally, an RBS-15 missile hit aft, destroying the AK-130 twin 130mm mount and starting a fire in the helicopter hangar.

Dzerzhinsky was hurt, but he was not yet out of the fight.

***

[1] Current orbat of the corps’ divisions are:

I (BE) Corps
1st Infantry Division (Mechanized)
- 1ste Pantserinfanteriebrigade
- 7ème Brigade d'Infanterie Blindée
- 8 ème Brigade Blindée

16de Pantserdivisie
- 4de Pantserinfanteriebrigade
- 17ème Brigade Blindée
- 4de Pantserbrigade

Reserve

- 12ème Brigade d'Infanterie (rebuilt by cannibalising 10e brigade)
- 10e Pantserinfanteriebrigade (cadre, rebuilding)

[2] While Finland does conscript men over the age of 18, it did not in 2005 in the TLWVerse, or as of 2022 in @ conscript women. However, women can and do volunteer for service in in the FDF.

[3] A nickname for the M/39 rifle.

[4] The most comprehensive description of the REGAN Vest complex can be found in ‘Secret Nuclear Government Bunkers – REGAN Vest & How NATO Prepared for World War III’ by Poul Holt Pedersen & Karsten Hvam Pedersen (2022). A ground plan (in Danish) can be found here.

[5] The guard company was quite heavily armed. For example, Pedersen & Pedersen mention that it had three M45 Quadmounts; see p.154.
Bernard Woolley
Posts: 791
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 4:06 pm
Location: Earth

Accompanying Pictures

Post by Bernard Woolley »

Accompanying Pictures
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Jotun
Posts: 970
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:27 pm
Location: Ze Bocage Mudflats

Re: The Last War: 353

Post by Jotun »

Good chapter, Jan!
I have yet to write the contribution we discussed, but I have a somewhat problematic spell at work and frankly cannot be arsed at this time. Sorry :(

Nevertheless, some interesting developments.
I hope the Belgians don‘t go off half-cocked in a glory hunt. Those rarely end well. At minimum, they should keep COMNORTHAG in the loop for him to rein them in if need be.

Mozambique looks like it is going to be toast. The government deserves to be stood against a wall and shot with cat s***.

You have a thing for OTL female PMs serving in the military, apparently. Sanna Marin is admittedly a bit of a crush of mine, good looks and brains, to thanks for that :lol: Are you planning on having Kaja Kallas turn up too, maybe as an Estonian resistance operative?

General Sumner is doing a great job of keeping the Danish government grounded in reality. That isn‘t always the case between military and government…

So things have kicked off in the Baltic. That poor destroyer got a dose of overkill. He ate what, four missiles? The crew is definitely having an emotional event. That Kormoran hit decapitated the formation so the sudden lack of leadership and co-ordination in the Soviet TG should help NATO.
I shall try to cobble something together to the best of my ability.
Eaglenine2
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:22 pm

Re: The Last War: 353

Post by Eaglenine2 »

Looks like the Soviet Navy is not having a good time.
Question when are the orbat for the various nations and the various Fact Files coming back?
Johnnie Lyle
Posts: 2877
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:27 pm

Re: The Last War: 353

Post by Johnnie Lyle »

Jotun wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:46 pm Good chapter, Jan!
I have yet to write the contribution we discussed, but I have a somewhat problematic spell at work and frankly cannot be arsed at this time. Sorry :(

Nevertheless, some interesting developments.
I hope the Belgians don‘t go off half-cocked in a glory hunt. Those rarely end well. At minimum, they should keep COMNORTHAG in the loop for him to rein them in if need be.

Mozambique looks like it is going to be toast. The government deserves to be stood against a wall and shot with cat s***.

You have a thing for OTL female PMs serving in the military, apparently. Sanna Marin is admittedly a bit of a crush of mine, good looks and brains, to thanks for that :lol: Are you planning on having Kaja Kallas turn up too, maybe as an Estonian resistance operative?

General Sumner is doing a great job of keeping the Danish government grounded in reality. That isn‘t always the case between military and government…

So things have kicked off in the Baltic. That poor destroyer got a dose of overkill. He ate what, four missiles? The crew is definitely having an emotional event. That Kormoran hit decapitated the formation so the sudden lack of leadership and co-ordination in the Soviet TG should help NATO.
I shall try to cobble something together to the best of my ability.
Somebody watches the Chieftain.

Given said destroyer blew up, hopefully it was too swift to be an emotional event.

It was definitely a reacquainting with reality scene with a future PM, though it’s probably going to be hard to find somebody in politics in the TLW 2020s and 2030s who doesn’t have military experience. While there’s a lot less dietary specialities in 2005 than @2020, there’s probably no way the logisticians could satisfy them at the pointy end, even if the enemy wasn’t having a say. Ya gotta eat what they can get to you.

On the civilian side, feeding the displaced population is also a major headache, though Germany in @2005 is in better shape there than the USA circa @2017. Have the US major breweries shifted over to drinking water production, also given that we have serious potable water issues from refugee and evacuation center needs and presumably lower bottled water production?
trekchu
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2023 3:59 pm

Re: The Last War: 353

Post by trekchu »

So what's left of the Soviet surface fleet?
Jotun
Posts: 970
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:27 pm
Location: Ze Bocage Mudflats

Re: The Last War: 353

Post by Jotun »

trekchu wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:07 pm So what's left of the Soviet surface fleet?
Too much?
Bernard Woolley
Posts: 791
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 4:06 pm
Location: Earth

Re: The Last War: 353

Post by Bernard Woolley »

Jotun wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:46 pmGood chapter, Jan!
Thanks very much.
Jotun wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:46 pmI have yet to write the contribution we discussed, but I have a somewhat problematic spell at work and frankly cannot be arsed at this time. Sorry :(
Don't worry about it. Work can be totally sh*t at times! In any case, you gave me a lot of help already on that score.
Jotun wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:46 pm At minimum, they should keep COMNORTHAG in the loop for him to rein them in if need be.
If anything, COMNORTHAG has been yelling at them to "get off their boody ar*es and do something".
Jotun wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:46 pmThe government deserves to be stood against a wall and shot with cat s***.
Waste of good cat poo if you ask me! :lol:
Jotun wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:46 pmYou have a thing for OTL female PMs serving in the military, apparently. Sanna Marin is admittedly a bit of a crush of mine, good looks and brains, to thanks for that :lol: Are you planning on having Kaja Kallas turn up too, maybe as an Estonian resistance operative?
I think she would have volunteered for the FDF had her country been threatened. She is also that rarest of things, an actually cool politician. Wish we had a PM more like Marin. She also seems to be honest and have principles. God knows how she actually got elected! She hasn't even blamed foreigners for something! I hadn't thought of including Kaja Kallas. Interesting...
Jotun wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:46 pmGeneral Sumner is doing a great job of keeping the Danish government grounded in reality. That isn‘t always the case between military and government…
The Danes are, understandibly, very keen to get their capital back. They were, rightly, p*ssed when a lot of NATO troops were sent to Libya. Now that they are finished up with that operation, the Danish Government started pushing for Zealand to be liberated. General Sumner knows that's not possible right now, at least not without a reasonable chance of sucess (60% is not enough IMVHO). PM Nyborg is smart enough to know when to take military advice.
Jotun wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:46 pmI shall try to cobble something together to the best of my ability.
Don't feel you have to if other stuff is going on in your life. But, anything would be greatly appreciated.

Eaglenine2 wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:46 pm Looks like the Soviet Navy is not having a good time.
Indeed so.
Eaglenine2 wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:46 pmQuestion when are the orbat for the various nations and the various Fact Files coming back?
To borrow from Sir Humphrey, in the fullness of time. Seriously, though, I don't have an answer. It depends on whether the the database from tboverse.us can be restored. I've no idea if that's possible.

Johnnie Lyle wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:06 pmSomebody watches the Chieftain.
The tank, or comic opera?

Johnnie Lyle wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:06 pmGiven said destroyer blew up, hopefully it was too swift to be an emotional event.
The magazines went up. It would have been quick and violent.
Johnnie Lyle wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:06 pmIt was definitely a reacquainting with reality scene with a future PM, though it’s probably going to be hard to find somebody in politics in the TLW 2020s and 2030s who doesn’t have military experience.
There are going to be a lot of people with military or uniformed service experience by the 2020s. It'll be like the '50s and '60s in @. It'll probably take to the 2040s, or 2050s for the first generation of politicians with no military experience to appear. Bit like in @ it took until the 1980s & '90s.
Johnnie Lyle wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:06 pmWhile there’s a lot less dietary specialities in 2005 than @2020, there’s probably no way the logisticians could satisfy them at the pointy end, even if the enemy wasn’t having a say. Ya gotta eat what they can get to you.
Well, yes and no. When I wrote that I was thinking of the fact that during the First World War, when serving on the Western Front, Indian Moslem & Hindu soldiers accepted that they would have to eat things that were normally forbidden. If they could accept they could put aside religious scruples, then I figured that a vegetarian would be able to do the same in 2005.
Johnnie Lyle wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:06 pmOn the civilian side, feeding the displaced population is also a major headache, though Germany in @2005 is in better shape there than the USA circa @2017.
NATO did do a lot of serious planning for that particular issue. Denmark, for example, prepared to take in lots of West German refugees. Pedersen & Pedersen have a section in their book about it. I highly recommend the book, btw. From what I've read, there was a lot of stuff stockpiled. The food wouldn't have won any Michelin stars, but nobody would have gone hungry, or thirsty.

trekchu wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:07 pm So what's left of the Soviet surface fleet?
Jotun wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:10 pm Too much?
What Jotun said!
User avatar
jemhouston
Posts: 4194
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:38 am

Re: The Last War: 353

Post by jemhouston »

Jotun wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:10 pm
trekchu wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:07 pm So what's left of the Soviet surface fleet?
Too much?
Their fireballs are so pretty!! :lol:
Canman_v3
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:32 pm

Re: The Last War: 353

Post by Canman_v3 »

Sounds like when the liberation of Zealand will be the largest airborne/airmobile op in modern history, if it goes accordingly to plan.
Matt Wiser
Posts: 858
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2022 2:48 am
Location: Auberry, CA

Re: The Last War: 353

Post by Matt Wiser »

Good one! BZ as usual, and so to business:

Haven't seen much of the South Africans in a while. If Mozambique quits-as is likely, the Zimbabweans and their Soviet/East German backers are in a world of hurt-for that's their MSR, even with NATO navies controlling the IO, because I'd bet any amount of money there's all sorts of supplies there meant for the Zimbabweans and the Soviets-which will fall into South African hands.

Iron Feliks is putting up a fight, though that DD, in extremis, did its job. Missile sponge for anything coming the flagship's way.

The Belgian Corps Commander needs to pick his fights carefully. Last time they were up against the Soviets big time, they got mauled.

Good to see the Danish PM listening to military advice. As for security? Those Quad .50s still are meatchoppers (to use the old WW II and Korea term)

The future Finnish PM's memoirs about her military service would be interesting reading.

Good work, and get with 353!
The difference between diplomacy and war is this: Diplomacy is the art of telling someone to go to hell so elegantly that they pack for the trip.
War is bringing hell down on that someone.
Jotun
Posts: 970
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:27 pm
Location: Ze Bocage Mudflats

Re: The Last War: 353

Post by Jotun »

Johnnie Lyle wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:06 pm
Jotun wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:46 pm Good chapter, Jan!
I have yet to write the contribution we discussed, but I have a somewhat problematic spell at work and frankly cannot be arsed at this time. Sorry :(

Nevertheless, some interesting developments.
I hope the Belgians don‘t go off half-cocked in a glory hunt. Those rarely end well. At minimum, they should keep COMNORTHAG in the loop for him to rein them in if need be.

Mozambique looks like it is going to be toast. The government deserves to be stood against a wall and shot with cat s***.

You have a thing for OTL female PMs serving in the military, apparently. Sanna Marin is admittedly a bit of a crush of mine, good looks and brains, to thanks for that :lol: Are you planning on having Kaja Kallas turn up too, maybe as an Estonian resistance operative?

General Sumner is doing a great job of keeping the Danish government grounded in reality. That isn‘t always the case between military and government…

So things have kicked off in the Baltic. That poor destroyer got a dose of overkill. He ate what, four missiles? The crew is definitely having an emotional event. That Kormoran hit decapitated the formation so the sudden lack of leadership and co-ordination in the Soviet TG should help NATO.
I shall try to cobble something together to the best of my ability.
Somebody watches the Chieftain.

Given said destroyer blew up, hopefully it was too swift to be an emotional event.

That‘s the standard comment under the various youtube "projectile x vs armored vehicle y" videos on youtube whenever the armor is penetrated. "The driver just had an emotional event." :mrgreen:

Ref the OP: The term "Kinzhal“ had me confused for a moment, as I had for a moment forgotten that the Tor is called the Kinzhal sometimes and has nothing to do with the @ overhyped terror weapon the Russians use in Ukraine…
Bernard Woolley
Posts: 791
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 4:06 pm
Location: Earth

Re: The Last War: 353

Post by Bernard Woolley »

Canman_v3 wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 11:54 pm Sounds like when the liberation of Zealand will be the largest airborne/airmobile op in modern history, if it goes accordingly to plan.
My emphasis.

No plan survives contact with the enemy, as the old saying goes. I would argue that no plan survives contact with the enemy in its origional form. Rather than, as the saying seems to suggest, doesen't survive at all.

Matt Wiser wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 3:29 am Good one! BZ as usual
Thanks. Appreciate that.
Matt Wiser wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 3:29 amIf Mozambique quits-as is likely, <snip>
It's very bad for them. Full stop. However, landing troops north of Maputo is a bit of a gamble. Mozambique could potentially overwhelm them.
Matt Wiser wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 3:29 amIron Feliks is putting up a fight, <snip>
I'd argue that he has been mission killed. The plan to bring the Swedish and Finnish Navies is now as dead as that detroyer.
Matt Wiser wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 3:29 amAs for security? Those Quad .50s still are meatchoppers (to use the old WW II and Korea term)
In @ they were initially positioned to provide defence against ground attacks. A latter military commander of the bunker had them moved to nearby hilltops. Reasoning that a major ground attack in that part of northern Jutland was unlikely. An air attack, including one by helicopters, however, was far more likely.
Matt Wiser wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 3:29 amThe future Finnish PM's memoirs about her military service would be interesting reading.
I'd certainly read them!
JBG
Posts: 206
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:54 pm

Re: The Last War: 353

Post by JBG »

Johnnie Lyle wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:06 pm
Jotun wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:46 pm Good chapter, Jan!
I have yet to write the contribution we discussed, but I have a somewhat problematic spell at work and frankly cannot be arsed at this time. Sorry :(

Nevertheless, some interesting developments.
I hope the Belgians don‘t go off half-cocked in a glory hunt. Those rarely end well. At minimum, they should keep COMNORTHAG in the loop for him to rein them in if need be.

Mozambique looks like it is going to be toast. The government deserves to be stood against a wall and shot with cat s***.

You have a thing for OTL female PMs serving in the military, apparently. Sanna Marin is admittedly a bit of a crush of mine, good looks and brains, to thanks for that :lol: Are you planning on having Kaja Kallas turn up too, maybe as an Estonian resistance operative?

General Sumner is doing a great job of keeping the Danish government grounded in reality. That isn‘t always the case between military and government…

So things have kicked off in the Baltic. That poor destroyer got a dose of overkill. He ate what, four missiles? The crew is definitely having an emotional event. That Kormoran hit decapitated the formation so the sudden lack of leadership and co-ordination in the Soviet TG should help NATO.
I shall try to cobble something together to the best of my ability.
Somebody watches the Chieftain.

Given said destroyer blew up, hopefully it was too swift to be an emotional event.

It was definitely a reacquainting with reality scene with a future PM, though it’s probably going to be hard to find somebody in politics in the TLW 2020s and 2030s who doesn’t have military experience. While there’s a lot less dietary specialities in 2005 than @2020, there’s probably no way the logisticians could satisfy them at the pointy end, even if the enemy wasn’t having a say. Ya gotta eat what they can get to you.

On the civilian side, feeding the displaced population is also a major headache, though Germany in @2005 is in better shape there than the USA circa @2017. Have the US major breweries shifted over to drinking water production, also given that we have serious potable water issues from refugee and evacuation center needs and presumably lower bottled water production?
Johnnie, food intolerances might be a bigger issue. My agency makes a serious effort to deal with them though anecdotally we seem to have a bigger problem down under than elsewhere. To give an example all of our sport and recreation centres are nut free.

Jonathan
Johnnie Lyle
Posts: 2877
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:27 pm

Re: The Last War: 353

Post by Johnnie Lyle »

JBG wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:00 am
Johnnie Lyle wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:06 pm
Jotun wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:46 pm Good chapter, Jan!
I have yet to write the contribution we discussed, but I have a somewhat problematic spell at work and frankly cannot be arsed at this time. Sorry :(

Nevertheless, some interesting developments.
I hope the Belgians don‘t go off half-cocked in a glory hunt. Those rarely end well. At minimum, they should keep COMNORTHAG in the loop for him to rein them in if need be.

Mozambique looks like it is going to be toast. The government deserves to be stood against a wall and shot with cat s***.

You have a thing for OTL female PMs serving in the military, apparently. Sanna Marin is admittedly a bit of a crush of mine, good looks and brains, to thanks for that :lol: Are you planning on having Kaja Kallas turn up too, maybe as an Estonian resistance operative?

General Sumner is doing a great job of keeping the Danish government grounded in reality. That isn‘t always the case between military and government…

So things have kicked off in the Baltic. That poor destroyer got a dose of overkill. He ate what, four missiles? The crew is definitely having an emotional event. That Kormoran hit decapitated the formation so the sudden lack of leadership and co-ordination in the Soviet TG should help NATO.
I shall try to cobble something together to the best of my ability.
Somebody watches the Chieftain.

Given said destroyer blew up, hopefully it was too swift to be an emotional event.

It was definitely a reacquainting with reality scene with a future PM, though it’s probably going to be hard to find somebody in politics in the TLW 2020s and 2030s who doesn’t have military experience. While there’s a lot less dietary specialities in 2005 than @2020, there’s probably no way the logisticians could satisfy them at the pointy end, even if the enemy wasn’t having a say. Ya gotta eat what they can get to you.

On the civilian side, feeding the displaced population is also a major headache, though Germany in @2005 is in better shape there than the USA circa @2017. Have the US major breweries shifted over to drinking water production, also given that we have serious potable water issues from refugee and evacuation center needs and presumably lower bottled water production?
Johnnie, food intolerances might be a bigger issue. My agency makes a serious effort to deal with them though anecdotally we seem to have a bigger problem down under than elsewhere. To give an example all of our sport and recreation centres are nut free.

Jonathan
Were TLW set in 2015-2022, I would totally agree with you. I have a lot more experience with evacuation shelters than I would like (on both sides of the coin), and food intolerances are a big issue. Nut allergies are less of a problem than they appear, because we don’t cook nuts in job lots to feed masses of people. Vegetarian, vegan and low-carb diets are much bigger problems, because the easiest stuff to cook en masse, especially by volunteers, are things like hot dogs, burgers and potatoes, pizza, sandwiches or pasta. Veg and vegan dishes take a lot more expertise, especially in the seasoning department. Stuff like salad bars are theoretically feasible, but require equipment that may not be available. I have eaten a lot of different foods on emergency deployments, from leftover burritos to casino buffet donations to random restaurant orders (the emergency operation center staff during the beginning of COVID were fed by local restaurants as a government measure to keep them open). Both disaster staff and the people we’re caring for often eat like shit because that’s the cheapest and fastest way to feed lots of people. The craziest one was probably debating whether food, booze or a shower was my first priority (it was Oroville Dam, and I was covered in decomp, dirt, and dried blood from being stapled over the past 24hrs); turned out it was reestablish coms, then shower, then beer and meatloaf at my local firefighter bar because I didn’t have any food.

It’s increasingly an important issue, though if we’re being frank, most vegetarians and vegans are generally better off than the average person, so they’re a lot less likely to end up in evacuation shelters. People with diabetes, on the other hand, often do end up in shelters, and that seriously dictates what we should be serving so we don’t kill them.

But, in 2005, it’s less of an issue. We all are old enough we don’t want to realize 2005 is nearly 20 years ago, but dietary issues are one area where things have massively changed.

I still say Bernard could have a hilarious scene were some German refugees get cans of Bud and exclaim it’s actually water - which is a true story from the Northridge earthquake in 1994; they were able to switch the breweries over to canning water faster than they could get water cans, so lots of water was mislabeled as beer because that’s the cans they had.
Post Reply