SKIPPER BLUE

[Johnnie Lyle]

I don’t think it’s ever been shown in canon media how Kirk made it from Captain to RADM? But it does appear he went straight to RADM, then down again (?) after the V’Ger Crisis for a second five year mission commanding ENTERPRISE. But, was a RADM again by 2284.

And hating it.

It’s not stated he was actually demoted during the V’Ger crisis, so he could have been like one of those Japanese admirals commanding capital ships in 1944.

He wore Captain's stripes.

You going to tell an Admiral he’s out of uniform?

Seriously, it was Kirk playing captain, trying to recreate what he felt was the best period of his life, and he absolutely fucked Will Decker over to do at. I think that explains the uniform change better than a demotion - and it lends a lot more weight to the exchanges we see between him and Spock in Wrath of Khan. Kirk was absolutely commanding ENTERPRISE during the Genesis Incident, so there is a later precedent for admirals as ship commanders.

I happen to think it’s a stupid precedent, but it’s there. And it’s probably not a bad thing for Starfleet to have that kind of flaw.

[MikeKozlowski]

And hating it.

It’s not stated he was actually demoted during the V’Ger crisis, so he could have been like one of those Japanese admirals commanding capital ships in 1944.

He wore Captain's stripes.

You going to tell an Admiral he’s out of uniform?

Seriously, it was Kirk playing captain, trying to recreate what he felt was the best period of his life, and he absolutely fucked Will Decker over to do at. I think that explains the uniform change better than a demotion - and it lends a lot more weight to the exchanges we see between him and Spock in Wrath of Khan. Kirk was absolutely commanding ENTERPRISE during the Genesis Incident, so there is a later precedent for admirals as ship commanders.

I happen to think it’s a stupid precedent, but it’s there. And it’s probably not a bad thing for Starfleet to have that kind of flaw.

Johnnie,

You grok this.

Mike

[Johnnie Lyle]

He wore Captain's stripes.

You going to tell an Admiral he’s out of uniform?

Seriously, it was Kirk playing captain, trying to recreate what he felt was the best period of his life, and he absolutely fucked Will Decker over to do at. I think that explains the uniform change better than a demotion - and it lends a lot more weight to the exchanges we see between him and Spock in Wrath of Khan. Kirk was absolutely commanding ENTERPRISE during the Genesis Incident, so there is a later precedent for admirals as ship commanders.

I happen to think it’s a stupid precedent, but it’s there. And it’s probably not a bad thing for Starfleet to have that kind of flaw.

Johnnie,

You grok this.

Mike

It’s a recurring theme with Kirk’s later career.

The question we don’t get answered is whether Spock or McCoy are right - was it a mistake to accept a flag, or is Kirk both miserable and misbehaving (he is very very wrong during most of the V’Ger incident) because he’s riding a desk when he wants to be hopping galaxies?

By 2293, Kirk clearly thinks it’s the former and tells Picard as much. But the only time we see Admiral Kirk in space is riding ENTERPRISE. So we don’t know if he would have been as satisfied leading a squadron patrolling the Neutral Zone(s) or serving as a second-class commodore similar to Matt Decker or Bob Wesley.

Kirk very clearly enjoyed his tour at the Academy as a JO and the teaching aspect of his role commanding whatever he commanded in Wrath of Khan; we see that very clearly in his relationship with Saavik. Saavik is clearly Spock’s protege, but Kirk both delights in the moments he’s able to teach her something, and the moments she is right and he is wrong. But, if he clearly enjoys and feels fulfilled by passing his experience on to the next generation, why is he so miserable in a training command?

We have two hints in Generations. We have the moment Harriman offers ENTERPRISE to Kirk and Kirk turns it down, instead choosing to go to Deflector Control. We also have the moment where Kirk accepts Picard’s request and, more importantly, defers to Picard’s authority, to go fight Soren.

Based on this, Kirk doesn’t seek command per say; he’s seeking a role where he does things worth doing. I posit that Kirk saw his role as an admiral as a paper pusher, and that he was unable to find meaning in his roles as DCS-Ops or commanding a combination of enlisted training, department head and PCO/PXO training courses.

So we don’t know if Spock or McCoy was right, and would Kirk have been satisfied with a space going flag command.

[Bernard Woolley]

I wonder if Kirk commanding post TMP ENTERPRISE as a captain was like the first commander of HMS Queen Elizabeth (R08) in @? Jerry Kyd was a substantive Commodore while in command, but wore the rank of Captain.