Westland Lysander flown off carriers ??

[Nik_SpeakerToCats]

The Westland Lysander was seriously STOL but, by WW2, too slow for use in contested skies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westland_Lysander

Although some were used by 'Fleet Air Arm', these seem to have been land-based, for coastal patrols, dinghy-dropping etc etc.

Their use by SOE for Agent ferrying / downed air-crew retrieval became the stuff of legend.

However, I can find nothing about any use of a Lysander off an aircraft carrier:
Not for U-Boot hunting or Recon, nor covert 'taxi' work.

Yes, the STOL characteristics probably lent themselves to flight-deck operations, and the 'build' was probably robust enough to add a 'hook'.

But...

Any ideas ??

[warshipadmin]

Ark Royal had a useful flight deck length of 219m. Lysander's takeoff run is 279m to 50 ft (good to mix Napoleonic and British Empire numbers). OK, we don't need 50 ft, and the carrier is cruising into the wind. Is that worth 20%?

Well according to these guys, a 20 knot headwind is worth 20% so yes.

The basic Rules of Thumb for taking off or landing with a light aircraft in wind are:

A direct headwind will shorten our ground roll on both takeoff and landing by approximately 1% for each knot of breeze. For example, if we are taking off into a 10 knot headwind and our normal takeoff roll is 800’ in no wind conditions, our ground roll will be reduced to just over 700’ (800’ x 0.9 = 720’).

https://principalair.ca/article%20-%20C ... D%20720%27).

[Craiglxviii]

A Lysander can take off in under 100m, with a decent breeze. I’ve seen it with my own two eyes, at Shuttleworth; it’s surreal. In that same breeze it can also land in under 80m. I think its stall speed is 55mph from memory.

I would suggest that if the ship was steaming at 20kts and that there was any wind whatsoever, they’d be airborne by the time they reached the island.

However, Lysander isn’t the smallest aeroplane out there, so would struggle with lifts & hangars below deck.

[Pdf27]

What are you trying to achieve?

1. For naval tasks, you've got dedicated naval aircraft that are easier to operate of carriers (folding wings, etc.) and can do the job at least as well.
2. For sneaky beaky stuff, a Lysander had the range to go almost wherever it needed to without putting an aircraft carrier at risk.
3. You're left with a small subset or missions where you can deliver the agent/equipment by parachute quite happily from a bomber. Retrieving them is the only task a Lysander could potentially add value in, and there you have to trade-off risking a carrier a long way from home against an agent who would never have been sent if they weren't expendable.

Anything I've missed? I'm struggling to think of any.

[Nik_SpeakerToCats]

Nice analysis, PDF.
Thank you.

After writing my 'Alt-TBO', the 'Naval Lysander' remained an itch I had to scratch.

With many Lysanders built in/for Canada, adding folding wings might not be implausible.
Also, if laden, they'd optional winglets on their spats. For a 'fetch' run, such would further shorten 'field' requirements...

In the end, I did not explore the possibility as, by that stage in 'Alt-TBO', the SS had abandoned Eire.

So, a regular 'dark' Lysander could easily cross Irish Sea to UK West Coast from secure air-fields in eg Belfast, Dublin or Wexford.
With a Mosquito night-fighter escort, yet ?

Consider itch well scratched...

[Pdf27]

If you're looking in a TBO context there are similar aircraft in production in the US that can do the same thing - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stinson_L-1_Vigilant is probably the most suitable. It makes more sense in that context as they have a reason not to want to use bombers, and the naval aircraft are a bit small to drop passengers.

[Craiglxviii]

Nice analysis, PDF.
Thank you.

After writing my 'Alt-TBO', the 'Naval Lysander' remained an itch I had to scratch.

With many Lysanders built in/for Canada, adding folding wings might not be implausible.
Also, if laden, they'd optional winglets on their spats. For a 'fetch' run, such would further shorten 'field' requirements...

In the end, I did not explore the possibility as, by that stage in 'Alt-TBO', the SS had abandoned Eire.

So, a regular 'dark' Lysander could easily cross Irish Sea to UK West Coast from secure air-fields in eg Belfast, Dublin or Wexford.
With a Mosquito night-fighter escort, yet ?

Consider itch well scratched...

Here you go Nik. Shuttleworth Collection’s SOE Lysander, with bolted-on agent ladder and stores container.

Of course if you want a REAL STOL aeroplane, check out the Fieseler Storch to the right…

IMG_3351.jpeg