Art & Image Thread

[James1978]

Photo: A 416th BOMB Wing (Griffiss) Boeing B-52G with six AGM-86B cruise missiles on each pylon and eight in the bomb bay during a EASTERN EXPRESS mission, 1988.

AGM-86B ?

[Lordroel]

AGM-86B ?

My apology, seems the B slip true my check.

[Matt Wiser]

Taken from an Aeronavale Atlantique Maritime Recon aircraft in 1986, over the Atlantic: the Kiev group doing UNREP.

[Wolfman]

That Atlantique must’ve been flying under a lucky star to get this photo and get away with it…

[Poohbah]

That Atlantique must’ve been flying under a lucky star to get this photo and get away with it…

The Sovs didn't want any more smoke by that point.

There's a guy at Maxwell who dug into the Red Army archives, and discovered that ADVENT CROWN came within an ace of cutting off the 8th Guards Tank Army; it came down to who got reinforced first, and Ivan won the coin toss.

The 1987 spring campaign season was greeted with cautious optimism in Philadelphia (the JCS has been more optimistic in 1986 and were appropriately chastened), and pure dread in the various Army-level intelligence ships across TVD Amerika; they knew that the Americans were working furiously to correct the deficiencies ADVENT CROWN had revealed, while the TVD ops shop was confidently predicting a linkup at Lake Sacajawea sometime around July 1st, with the US being forced to surrender on July 4th. (No, really.)

[Matt Wiser]

I think you mean the Defense Minister-Sokolov. He had grand plans for what to do after Wichita was won, and that was likely what he had in mind. TVD Amerika at Fort Sam Houston and TVD Kanada in Edmonton had no such ideas. Marshal Kribov knew that he didn't have the resources to mount a major offensive north, and he was satisfied with the plan for Wichita. Only he didn't anticipate Schwartzkopf knowing he was coming and baking him a cake-with an anvil inside. Kribov's counterpart in Edmonton knew he couldn't mount a serious attack south, and satisfied himself with local attacks up to army level, but no serious offensive operations-they were getting enough supplies for that, but nowhere near what was needed to go south.

Everyone in Moscow who needed to know knew it. Sokolov presented that big plan anyway to the Defense Council for two reasons:1) to try and show that victory was still possible, even if his immediate staff and the General Staff knew otherwise. And 2) (and most important): Keep breathing.

[jemhouston]

There was a rumor a few years ago, we had a human source at Fort Sam Houston that fed us the plan. There was also a rumor that was a misdirect and we actually had broken a high-level communications channel.

I think the official word is General Schwarzkopf and his staff looked at the information, figured out what they would do if they were the Soviets, and planned their counter operations.

Not to take anything away from Schwarzkopf, anyone know anything about one or two?

[Poohbah]

I think you mean the Defense Minister-Sokolov. He had grand plans for what to do after Wichita was won, and that was likely what he had in mind. TVD Amerika at Fort Sam Houston and TVD Kanada in Edmonton had no such ideas. Marshal Kribov knew that he didn't have the resources to mount a major offensive north, and he was satisfied with the plan for Wichita. Only he didn't anticipate Schwartzkopf knowing he was coming and baking him a cake-with an anvil inside. Kribov's counterpart in Edmonton knew he couldn't mount a serious attack south, and satisfied himself with local attacks up to army level, but no serious offensive operations-they were getting enough supplies for that, but nowhere near what was needed to go south.

Everyone in Moscow who needed to know knew it. Sokolov presented that big plan anyway to the Defense Council for two reasons:1) to try and show that victory was still possible, even if his immediate staff and the General Staff knew otherwise. And 2) (and most important): Keep breathing.

The TVD ops shop was cheerfully repeating the party line.

[Matt Wiser]

Perhaps, but Alekseyev (Deputy Theater Commander), Chibisov (Chief of Staff) and Dudorov (Intelligence Officer) all have said that everyone knew that they would be lucky if Wichita went off as planned. Kribov flew back to Moscow in early April to brief the General Staff, and TVD Kanada's Deputy did the same (the man later took over that command after PRAIRIE FIRE), and that series of conferences is where those fantasies about an all-out offensive came. Everyone in a position to know the truth: Akhromayev (Deputy Defense Minister), Grachev (Chief of the General Staff), Berkenev (Director, GRU), and many in the Defense Ministry and the General Staff knew full well those plans were going to remain fantasies. Both Alekseyev and Chibisov have left memoirs, and both state that at the final planning conference at Fort Sam Houston-where Front Commanders were briefed along with their respective staffs, SAF representatives, etc., and Kribov took both of them-along with Dudorov-aside, and told them flat out that they would be "Damned lucky" if they won at Wichita, and they lacked the supplies to sustain an offensive further north.. The three were also told that Berkenev informed Marshal Kribov and told him that Schwartzkopf knew Wichita was the Soviet objective, knew they were coming, but not when.

And No one anticipated the scale of what became PRAIRIE FIRE. A major counteroffensive, yes. Significant territorial gains by the Americans, yes. But several hundred miles of their front line from the Denver Siege lines all the way to Southern Missouri disintegrating? Nobody thought that would happen, but it did.

[Lordroel]

Photo: East German BTR-60PB with full crew and equipment before the war in 1985.

[Poohbah]

Photo: East German BTR-60PB with full crew and equipment before the war in 1985.

Grunt in a can, heat and serve!

[Matt Wiser]

Especially once the Soviets and their lackeys ran into serious resistance. They quickly found out that mounted attack (i.e. keeping infantry mounted in their vehicles until the objective was reached) was often suicidal. It became practice in both theaters for Allied forces to separate tanks from infantry (mounted or dismounted) if at all possible.

[Poohbah]

Especially once the Soviets and their lackeys ran into serious resistance. They quickly found out that mounted attack (i.e. keeping infantry mounted in their vehicles until the objective was reached) was often suicidal. It became practice in both theaters for Allied forces to separate tanks from infantry (mounted or dismounted) if at all possible.

I can recall exactly two successful mounted attacks performed by Fifth Marine Division, and both of them were against Nicaraguan troops in 1988. I suspect one Marine walking up and saying "Boo!" would have gotten them to surrender.

The company CO that did both attacks (K/3/28) got an ass-chewing by the regimental CO the first time and relieved for cause the second time, because mounted attacks were absolutely forbidden after Clovis.

The disaster in Clovis was caused by a former Cobra driver thinking he could do a mounted attack against Cuban airborne troops.

[Lordroel]

Can anybody confirm that this photo shows a ALA chopper.

[Matt Wiser]

Pretty certain it is. They did "Acquire" some UH-1s and the Bell 205 civilian version.

[Lordroel]

Pretty certain it is. They did "Acquire" some UH-1s and the Bell 205 civilian version.

Then this one would be number 1, the one flying is numbered 03.

[Wolfman]

That’s the US Army trying to use a Huey to simulate a HIND, the ALAF birds would be physically indistinguishable, aside from their paint jobs, from their kin in use by the American military and in civilian hands…

[Matt Wiser]

GULF HAMMER: U.S.S. Iowa (BB-61) on the gun line, May, 1988:

[Poohbah]

Jennifer Wojciechowski was on E&E in the Houston Metro at the time.

As she put it, God and Chesty Puller had heard her prayers.

EVERYBODY in Houston knew what the big kabooms meant.

[Matt Wiser]

Especially after Massachusetts dropped a 16-inch salvo into an LNG storage facility!