I'm sorry you're dead

[David Newton]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-y ... e-68818509

The perils of inaccurate information in computer databases exposed in this story.

[jemhouston]

In fairness, bad databases exist with paper. There was MASH episode where the army declared Hawkeye dead. At the end, he had given up trying to fix the mess and got on the bus with the rest of the bodies.

Then the next wave of wounded came in and he got back up to go help them.

[Johnnie Lyle]

Not surprising at all.

At least here in the US, death certificates are very dirty data, full of all kinds of misspellings. Usually it’s addresses or the cause of death train, but can be anywhere. Nor is that address always where you’re actually living when you died, especially if you were in a care home.

Death certificates also don’t have your phone number or email on them, and in the era of cell phones and electronic communications, those are actually more likely to stick with you than address.

Names are also VERY problematic, especially in older or poorly designed systems that don’t encompass the full spectrum of characters used in names and name structures. Which names go on what, are you using a nickname or unconventional spelling (which helps and hurts), which actually are your middle names (true story there), etc.

Finally, at least in the US, we don’t have a master person identifier, though we kind of try to cobble one out of social security numbers.

So not surprising at all that this happened. Kinda surprising it doesn’t happen more often.

[Nightwatch2]

In the US the death certificate databases are automatically linked to the voter registration database and mailed ballots to a post office box….

[Johnnie Lyle]

In the US the death certificate databases are automatically linked to the voter registration database and mailed ballots to a post office box….

In some places, it’s easier to get off the tax rolls than the voter rolls.

[Poohbah]

Horror story I heard during my medical coding classes:

A diabetes charity sponsored a 5K race to raise funds, and entrants in the race got a free diabetes screening.

The medical coder proceeded to code them not as "screened for diabetes," but as "diagnosed with diabetes."

Well, the first thing that happened is that the whoopie lights and sirens went off at CDC.

The second thing that happened is that EVERYONE got their insurance rates jacked (assuming the carrier didn't cancel it outright), and it took YEARS to get those false diagnoses expunged, plus years more to get the insurance companies to accept that the diagnoses were false.

[Micael]

Not surprising at all.

At least here in the US, death certificates are very dirty data, full of all kinds of misspellings. Usually it’s addresses or the cause of death train, but can be anywhere. Nor is that address always where you’re actually living when you died, especially if you were in a care home.

Death certificates also don’t have your phone number or email on them, and in the era of cell phones and electronic communications, those are actually more likely to stick with you than address.

Names are also VERY problematic, especially in older or poorly designed systems that don’t encompass the full spectrum of characters used in names and name structures. Which names go on what, are you using a nickname or unconventional spelling (which helps and hurts), which actually are your middle names (true story there), etc.

Finally, at least in the US, we don’t have a master person identifier, though we kind of try to cobble one out of social security numbers.

So not surprising at all that this happened. Kinda surprising it doesn’t happen more often.

In Sweden we do have a ”master person identifier”, yet erroneous declarations of death still happens. Due to some media coverage of these I believe that there’s a push to institute some additional safeguards against this, which is a positive development. The most common occurrence seems to be a physician intending to fill out a death certificate for a patient but bungles things and unintentionally enters the data of another (alive) patient. There’s also been a handful of cases when someone wants to maliciously harass a person and have forged a fake death certificate signed by a fictitious physician and then sent it in to be registered. This scenario I believe is being adressed by looking into using some sort of digital identification to verify that it is being sent in by an authorized individual.

[Poohbah]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-y ... e-68818509

The perils of inaccurate information in computer databases exposed in this story.

"BRING OUT YER DEAD!"

"I'm not dead yet."

[Johnnie Lyle]

Not surprising at all.

At least here in the US, death certificates are very dirty data, full of all kinds of misspellings. Usually it’s addresses or the cause of death train, but can be anywhere. Nor is that address always where you’re actually living when you died, especially if you were in a care home.

Death certificates also don’t have your phone number or email on them, and in the era of cell phones and electronic communications, those are actually more likely to stick with you than address.

Names are also VERY problematic, especially in older or poorly designed systems that don’t encompass the full spectrum of characters used in names and name structures. Which names go on what, are you using a nickname or unconventional spelling (which helps and hurts), which actually are your middle names (true story there), etc.

Finally, at least in the US, we don’t have a master person identifier, though we kind of try to cobble one out of social security numbers.

So not surprising at all that this happened. Kinda surprising it doesn’t happen more often.

In Sweden we do have a ”master person identifier”, yet erroneous declarations of death still happens. Due to some media coverage of these I believe that there’s a push to institute some additional safeguards against this, which is a positive development. The most common occurrence seems to be a physician intending to fill out a death certificate for a patient but bungles things and unintentionally enters the data of another (alive) patient. There’s also been a handful of cases when someone wants to maliciously harass a person and have forged a fake death certificate signed by a fictitious physician and then sent it in to be registered. This scenario I believe is being adressed by looking into using some sort of digital identification to verify that it is being sent in by an authorized individual.

An MPI cuts down on the confusion and reduces good faith mistakes, though.

It’s vastly better than the current US system(s), where you have to do a lot more work to make sure that you have the right person when linking records.

[Andy L]

This raises an interesting question: had a death certificate been issued? If so, that is a legal document and cannot be altered. In the case of an incorrect cause of death, the body must be exhumed and a further autopsy be carried out, then a new death certificate issued.

So would she have to die, then be autopsied, so her death certificate can be re-issued? I mean, seriously, how can she have been declared dead without anyone seeing a body or there being a court case to ascertain the facts? Where was the validation on this 'death data'? Where was the proof?

What am I missing?

[Poohbah]

This raises an interesting question: had a death certificate been issued? If so, that is a legal document and cannot be altered. In the case of an incorrect cause of death, the body must be exhumed and a further autopsy be carried out, then a new death certificate issued.

So would she have to die, then be autopsied, so her death certificate can be re-issued? I mean, seriously, how can she have been declared dead without anyone seeing a body or there being a court case to ascertain the facts? Where was the validation on this 'death data'? Where was the proof?

What am I missing?

She's only mostly dead. Just take her to Max the Miracle Worker.

[Johnnie Lyle]

This raises an interesting question: had a death certificate been issued? If so, that is a legal document and cannot be altered. In the case of an incorrect cause of death, the body must be exhumed and a further autopsy be carried out, then a new death certificate issued.

So would she have to die, then be autopsied, so her death certificate can be re-issued? I mean, seriously, how can she have been declared dead without anyone seeing a body or there being a court case to ascertain the facts? Where was the validation on this 'death data'? Where was the proof?

What am I missing?

At least in the US, death certificates are relatively easy to amend. We have a form, you put the changes you want on it, have the signing physician sign it, and the changes are made and the amendment form attached.

So, at least here in the US, you don’t need an autopsy (most DCs don’t have them anyway) or other such stuff. Just someone catching it and triggering the amendment process.

I suspect the UK is similar.

[Pdf27]

This raises an interesting question: had a death certificate been issued? If so, that is a legal document and cannot be altered. In the case of an incorrect cause of death, the body must be exhumed and a further autopsy be carried out, then a new death certificate issued.

So would she have to die, then be autopsied, so her death certificate can be re-issued? I mean, seriously, how can she have been declared dead without anyone seeing a body or there being a court case to ascertain the facts? Where was the validation on this 'death data'? Where was the proof?

What am I missing?

Most likely cause is that someone else died and due to finger trouble it was registered under her name. From reading the story it looks like this would have been on the NHS system only - registering a death (for death certificate, etc.) can only be done by a relative which strongly implies that it wouldn't have appeared on this database.

[Johnnie Lyle]

This raises an interesting question: had a death certificate been issued? If so, that is a legal document and cannot be altered. In the case of an incorrect cause of death, the body must be exhumed and a further autopsy be carried out, then a new death certificate issued.

So would she have to die, then be autopsied, so her death certificate can be re-issued? I mean, seriously, how can she have been declared dead without anyone seeing a body or there being a court case to ascertain the facts? Where was the validation on this 'death data'? Where was the proof?

What am I missing?

Most likely cause is that someone else died and due to finger trouble it was registered under her name. From reading the story it looks like this would have been on the NHS system only - registering a death (for death certificate, etc.) can only be done by a relative which strongly implies that it wouldn't have appeared on this database.

How does that work for people who don’t have relatives, or where one can’t be found?

[Pdf27]

How does that work for people who don’t have relatives, or where one can’t be found?

Responsibility devolves onto the local council.
https://www.buckinghamshire.gov.uk/envi ... angements/