HR departments in one image

[Micael]

[jemhouston]

One thing I remember from a long-ago Management class. Money will increase the amount of crap the employee will put up with.

[Johnnie Lyle]

It’s not wrong.

At least here in the US, shitty bosses and shitty working conditions are more likely to drive employees to the exits. People will quite happily stay in lower-paying jobs if they have non-monetized benefits (such as flexibility, good supportive leadership, etc) - and fixing your management problems will save you boatloads of money.

[warshipadmin]

Grins, I left a company, worked in a different field for 18 months, went back to the first company with a 60% pay rise. No it isn't about the money?

[Johnnie Lyle]

Grins, I left a company, worked in a different field for 18 months, went back to the first company with a 60% pay rise. No it isn't about the money?

Was the money the key factor, or was it tied in with other factors such as a bad boss, lack of appreciation of skills and contributions, lack of promotion pathway, etc?

A lot of times the money is the icing, not the cake.

[Poohbah]

Grins, I left a company, worked in a different field for 18 months, went back to the first company with a 60% pay rise. No it isn't about the money?

Was the money the key factor, or was it tied in with other factors such as a bad boss, lack of appreciation of skills and contributions, lack of promotion pathway, etc?

A lot of times the money is the icing, not the cake.

I've found that getting underpaid is usually the cherry on top of the shit sundae.

[Johnnie Lyle]

Grins, I left a company, worked in a different field for 18 months, went back to the first company with a 60% pay rise. No it isn't about the money?

Was the money the key factor, or was it tied in with other factors such as a bad boss, lack of appreciation of skills and contributions, lack of promotion pathway, etc?

A lot of times the money is the icing, not the cake.

I've found that getting underpaid is usually the cherry on top of the shit sundae.

Same. Other factors generally come into play to lead you to the “they do not pay me enough for this shit.”

[Kunkmiester]

I'm trying to think of bullcrap bad enough to make me want to quit, but minor enough access to a ping pong table on breaks would salve it.

I'm not getting anything. I could see flex time being a big point, but I can't see a ping pong table being equivalent.

[warshipadmin]

The reason I left was I was headhunted for an interesting sounding job for a 30% pay rise. So that was a pretty easy decision. Turns out I missed my friends and didn't like living in Sydney. I came back to working in the same job same desk same boss, on contract. Then they decided they wanted to make me a permie again, and in the only time I have successfully negotiated, pointed out that not only were they intending to pay me less than I was getting on contract (which is typical) but that they were offering me less than I had originally left for. My new boss obviously rattled HR's cage and a better offer was forthcoming.

[Johnnie Lyle]

I'm trying to think of bullcrap bad enough to make me want to quit, but minor enough access to a ping pong table on breaks would salve it.

I'm not getting anything. I could see flex time being a big point, but I can't see a ping pong table being equivalent.

Stuff like ping-pong tables and pizza parties are really only good for addressing employee isolation (which is a big problem in both large organizations and organizations heavy on remote work), and even then they’re best at the team level (my team is doing a potluck tomorrow). Building up a communal food culture to celebrate birthdays, going aways or new hires and significant milestones can do a lot to build esprit de corps - assuming your employees are into it.

What it does NOT make up for is shitty management and overwork.

Flex time and hybrid work schedules are huge employment draws, and good examples of situations where you get fewer people taking time off.

The biggest thing a company can fix if it’s smart enough is bad management and leaders. But that’s super hard.

[JBG]

You did not like living in the Emerald City?

I am speechless.

Then again, I have lived most of my life in one of the better parts. There are some parts of Sydney that truly suck.

Jonathan

[JBG]

I'm trying to think of bullcrap bad enough to make me want to quit, but minor enough access to a ping pong table on breaks would salve it.

I'm not getting anything. I could see flex time being a big point, but I can't see a ping pong table being equivalent.

Stuff like ping-pong tables and pizza parties are really only good for addressing employee isolation (which is a big problem in both large organizations and organizations heavy on remote work), and even then they’re best at the team level (my team is doing a potluck tomorrow). Building up a communal food culture to celebrate birthdays, going aways or new hires and significant milestones can do a lot to build esprit de corps - assuming your employees are into it.

What it does NOT make up for is shitty management and overwork.

Flex time and hybrid work schedules are huge employment draws, and good examples of situations where you get fewer people taking time off.

The biggest thing a company can fix if it’s smart enough is bad management and leaders. But that’s super hard.

I agree entirely, from personal experience. With bad management, well, the fish rots from the head.

Too many people though leave until the system expels the bad actors.

Jonathan

[warshipadmin]

Jonathan, I'm a country boy at heart. Small towns are OK but big cities rarely do much for me, I'm more Florence than Rome. I was living in Drummoyne, not too shabby, but the factory moved to lovely Parramatta from Meadowbank and that commute was hateful.

[JBG]

Jonathan, I'm a country boy at heart. Small towns are OK but big cities rarely do much for me, I'm more Florence than Rome. I was living in Drummoyne, not too shabby, but the factory moved to lovely Parramatta from Meadowbank and that commute was hateful.

I lived about three years in Ryde and Gladesville, either side in a way of Meadowbank plus six months in Paddington pre graduation. I like a city but have spent most of my life firstly in Pennant Hills and now, for some decades in Beecroft. Outer, leafy suburbs. The inner city or inner west in Sydney leave me cold.

Jonathan